We've been tracking how the elevation of Avigdor Lieberman could damage US-Israeli relations. But there are also questions about whether the rightward turn of the Israeli elections will further the alienation between American and Israeli Jews.
Friction has always existed between the American and Israeli Jewish communities. Although this tension is often hidden beneath general support for Israel, it does rear its head from time to time. Most recently in November American Jews descended on Israel for the annual general assembly of Jewish Federations and were roundly ignored, or insulted, by the Israeli press. But these differences involved such nuanced issues as defining the global Jewish community and building understanding between the communities, not on fundamental political questions. That might be changing.
Today in Ha'aretz Mike Prashker, the director of Merchavim: The Institute for the Advancement of Shared Citizenship in Israel, points out the irony that American Jews voted disproportionately for Barack Obama in the US elections, helping to challenge the legacy of racism in this country, while Israeli Jews supported politicians running on openly racist platforms in the Israeli elections. Prashker writes:
The fact is, however, that when it comes to core
democratic values, American and Israeli Jews are headed in
diametrically opposite directions. These elections have revealed
Israeli democracy as dangerously hollow – an easily manipulated
latticework of structures, mechanisms and procedures lacking the
normative and cultural foundations that are the bedrock of any
substantive and sustainable democracy.
He argues that Jews in the US need to help their Israeli brethren better understand democracy to create "a strong and sustainable national home for the Jewish people." He claims American Jews can influence Israeli democracy by sharing their "Jewish, Zionist and democratic values."
Prashker doesn't explain how to square the circle. Rather than just making a call for American Jews to share their democratic values, Prashker seems to be proposing a need to rethink Zionism. Let's open the question: can the goal of Zionism, a Jewish national home, be democratic? Israel very clearly seems to be saying the answer is "no." The recent Israeli election awarded politicians that ran on a platform of the need to "protect" the Jewish state from its own Palestinian citizens. How will American Jews respond to this?
There is a chance that Israel's illiberal reality will alienate American Jews who have benefited from an American society that has been very open to them. This may be the biggest story of all in the aftermath of the new Israeli government: whether American Jews will accept Israel's anti-democratic nature, choose to engage with Prashker's question, or begin to abandon Israel as antithetical to their values.
At least Lieberman understands what the goals of Zionism require. I respect him for that.
For too long, the liberal so-called Zionists have evaded the fundamental contradictions in their ideologies.
If they want a "Jewish State," I certainly have no problem with that, so long as Palestinian nationalist claims are also settled.
If they want "a state for all its peoples," it will not remain a Jewish state for long, and may well split apart violently along ethnic/religious lines later on.
I think the Israeli Jews are actualizing what they want their state to be, which is not a "democracy", but a "Jewish democracy." Those are two very different things.
Until now, American Jewish Zionists have been able to get away with spinning Israel as an American-like democracy, even though it’s always been primarily a Jewish democracy with special rights and privileges for Jews that also allows non-Jews to vote and be represented, but only within the very narrow framework of Jim Crow conditions. And increasingly now, it is strangling those conditions even tighter, and hence can no longer be believably compared to an American-style democracy.
No doubt, the hard core US Jewish Zionists will continue to spin Israel as an American-like democracy for as long as they can get away with it in order to squeeze every last penny from the American taxpayers, but that description is simply becoming more unbelievable by the day for both American Jews and non-Jews alike.
It's also clear that the overwhelming majority of Jewish Israelis DON'T WANT an American-style democracy, and will choose a Jewish democracy over an American-style democracy when the ultimatum finally comes down from Washington to reform to the American model or lose financing. The Israelis are just pushing that day out as far as they can since they've got a dumb sugar daddy still willing to underwrite their ways, which has probably already lasted longer than they ever imagined possible. I guess even they underestimated the tenacity and determination of the treasonous Zionist fifth column to keep the spigot open, and overestimated the remaining amount of backbone possessed by modern America.
And who knows. With the left-liberal Judeophile Dems at the helm, as with the right-wing Christian Zionists, they might even be able to string out the financing indefinitely, now matter how blatantly fascist Israel becomes. Democrats at this point really aren’t in a position to say no to any racial demagogue special interest, and don’t have the spine to say no even when they are, no matter how out of whack those demagogues might be with the Democrats’ professed values.
Ed, please show where Arab voting rights are only within a Jim Crow frame.
If you can't, it may be proof that you are just an antisemitic windbag. Or fart bag.
One thing most American Jews do not realize is how racist Israeli Jews have become. Haaretz gave poll results of Israeli attitudes towards Arabs a few years back. If the word 'black' was substituted for 'arab' in this report, any sentient American would immediately recognize the deep racism revealed there.
Also most Americans have little idea how profoundly Arabs are discriminated against in housing and in political representation. Perhaps someone should systematically expose the practices of the Jewish National Fund and how it created huge tracts of housing (especially in the Tel Aviv region) that are completely free of Arab tenants. The refusal to allow Arab parties in governing coalitions is the most egregious political discrimination.
But Blacks are not firing rockets towards Kindergardens where little children are playing, hoping to kill hundrens of innocent children.
Oh wait. I'm mistaken. They are guilty. After all, they are Jewish.
The rockets (which aren't deliberately aimed at children, unlike the Israeli military, which does target children and innocent civilians) are a RESPONSE to inhumane Israeli occupation and brutality.
When the occupation stops, the rockets will stop. Simple.
Can Israel stop occupying Palestinian land? Does it want to? In fact, does the Israeli Zionist leadership even care about the settlers it knowingly puts in harm's way, or are they expendable, as European Jews were to the original Zionist leaders?
"If I knew it was possible to save all [Jewish] children of Germany by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter—-because we are faced not only with the accounting of these [Jewish] children but also with the historical accounting of the Jewish People." -David Ben-Gurion, December 1938, a month after the Kristallnacht
Ah yes, "the Jewish people". Then, as now, ideology trumps humanity, not only against those the Zionist leaders are fighting, but even against their own "people", if it is fair to these poor Jewish victims to include them in whatever warped idea of "their people" the Zionists propose.
chris berel believes that if one Palestinian fires a rocket or suicide bombs, ALL Palestinians should be punished and discriminated against. And that ANY terrorist/resistance action committed by any Palestinian should be used as a pretext to institutionally discriminate against ALL Palestinians. It doesn't matter if its 10%, 5%, 1% or .01% of Palestinians. Any percentage automatically becomes ALL Palestinians "firing rockets towards Kindergardens where little children are playing, hoping to kill hundrens of innocent children," and thus a rationale for collective punishment and institutional discrimination.
It would be akin to white cops going into Harlem and doing a Gaza against ALL blacks if a small gang of Harlem blacks came into Manhattan and offed a couple of Wall Street bankers. And the Jewish Israelis profess to wonder why the Palestinians despise them.
chris berel, read every article on this linked page and then come back and admit that Israel institutionally discriminates against non-Jews, or don’t come back at all:
link to ifamericansknew.org
Will rockets stop when occupation ends?
That is the QUESTION.
The problem is in the definition of the word "occupation." For the Arab world, the entire Israel is "occupation." As the matter of fact, sometimes they say "occupation of 1948" or "occupation of 1967."
Israel left Gaza. There is not a single Israeli there. And yet, the rocket fire continues non-stop. Obviously, occupation is not the issue, "occupation" is.
Sanych, you must be a new troll to this site. We've already had the "occupation discussion." All of us already know that if you control the land borders, coast, airspace, and your military can enter and wreak havoc at a moment's notice, the occupation continues. Not only are the Israelis dictating what truckloads of food and medicine can enter Gaza, they also claim the right to approve re-building plans for all the destruction that took place in Gaza in January. So please, don't try to tell us that Gaza is no longer occupied, we're beyond that point.
The real issue here is justice. No, you cannot steal land in '48 or '67 or '09 and not expect people to fight back. You cannot build a theocracy for Jews only in a land that has been multi-religious for thousands of years and not expect that people will resist. You can't use missiles and tanks against helpless civilians and not have people, Arab and non-Arab, disgusted at you. You can't pretend that Israel is trying very hard to end the occupation if it weren't for those pesky rocket throwers when every day the theft of land continues in the West Bank. Please, come up with a better argument to try to defend the indefensible.
Israhell allowes rice and macaroni into Gaza but not lentils or garbanzo beans .The reason given by the shitty little country is,the former is esential,the latter is LUXORY.Think how diabolic the isrealis are.lack of protein have stunted most of Gaza's children.I think the SLC should just do the humane thing and kill,kill, kill the rest of the children of Gaza.
Yes, I was wondering why there were so many midgits in Gaza. Seemed like half of the population were starved little demented dwarves.
Gazastan – land of the little people with little minds.
Phil's Phools will push anything.
By the way, Ana, Israel did not steal land in 48, 67, 09, or ever.
The Islamic Fascist concept of justice is the same as Nazi Germany's concept.
Gazastan – land of the little people with little minds.
*****************************************************************************
Axiom: "The Arabs" never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The problem is in the definition of the word "occupation." For the Arab world, the entire Israel is "occupation." As the matter of fact, sometimes they say "occupation of 1948" or "occupation of 1967."
"occupation". Cloud the term occupation. What does "occupation" mean for the Arabs? One thing only: Driving the Jews into the sea. Ditto: New Holocaust.
Israel left Gaza. There is not a single Israeli there. And yet, the rocket fire continues non-stop. Obviously, occupation is not the issue, "occupation" is.
Keep using pars pro toto imagery. Take great care to avoid matters that do not fit: The Gaza Bombshell.
Always try to find evidence that support above axiom. You can be selective. It's important to keep driving the basic points home.
Always concentrate on the adversary with whom Israel can't make a deal.
Keep in mind: If we give them a crumb, they might demand the whole cake. But never say so.
Axiom II: The scum hates success, we have to live with this. We are a forward moving force, we never look back, we are an Iron fist taking what is ours. It's the land of our fathers.
Arabs: Backwardness, resentment based on their own pre-modern inefficient behavior. They only have to blame themselves. We are and have to remain the winners. No one in the West communicates with losers.
"It doesn't matter if its 10%, 5%, 1% or .01% of Palestinians. Any percentage automatically becomes ALL Palestinians "firing rockets towards Kindergardens where little children are playing, hoping to kill hundrens of innocent children," and thus a rationale for collective punishment and institutional discrimination."
What nonsense. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. It has the full support of the population in terrorist attacks on Israel.
Considering the goal of Hamas is to destroy Israel and any truce is only to build up strength to reach their goal, Israel has acted with incredible restraint.
Fortunately Israel has been able to stand up to the Arabs and their insatiable desire for land. (99.5% of the region is not enough for them.)
Fortunately Israel has been able to stand up to the Arabs and their insatiable desire for land.
This is really funny. Thanks for the entertainment.
@ chris berel
"Ed, please show where Arab voting rights are only within a Jim Crow frame.
If you can't, it may be proof that you are just an antisemitic windbag. Or fart bag."
In every Arab community, and in the five mixed cities where both Jews and Arabs live, de facto discrimination is readily apparent. Israel's 1.37 million Arab citizens vote, pay taxes and speak Hebrew, yet suffer pervasive discrimination, unequal allocation of resources and violation of their legal rights. Housing, education, and income all substantially lag that of the Jewish majority. Only 3 percent of the land in Israel proper is owned by Arabs; permits are rarely granted to Arab families to expand their housing; and most Jewish towns and neighborhoods remain off-limits.
link to nif.org
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Oh my God!!! Discrimination has been found in one of the 192 countries in the UN.
By the way, thanks for proving that Ed is an antisemitic fart bag, even though everyone here already knew that.
@ chris berel
"By the way, Ana, Israel did not steal land in 48, 67, 09, or ever.
The Islamic Fascist concept of justice is the same as Nazi Germany's concept."
Nazi Germany never stole any land either, and never engaged in any occupation. Germany entered Poland
to protect itself from Poland's sneaky incursions on the border. Those Poles had too many cavalry horses too. What was a poor country ravaged by the dirty Versailles Treaty to do? Germany only had a handful of
Stukas and Panzer tanks… The Zionist Fascist concept of justice is the same as Nazi Germany's concept.
@ LeaNder
"Axiom II: The scum hates success, we have to live with this. We are a forward moving force, we never look back, we are an Iron fist taking what is ours. It's the land of our fathers."
As you likely know, this was echoed by the neocon Bush regime who's members often bragged, in essence, that critics could study the aftermath of the neocon version of its own reality all they want, and then make their criticism public–and by that time the neocons will have moved on. They were the doers, they created operative reality; the
critics could scribble all they wanted in neocon dust.
Re: "Fortunately Israel has been able to stand up to the Arabs and their insatiable desire for land."
Reminds me of one of Adolph's bon mots: "Fortunately Germany is awake and stands tall against world jewry and the jew's insatiable thirst for control of the world."
Citizen furthers the case that Arab islamic fascism, as seen by the Ba'ath, Hamas, and Hezbullah is very much the same as seen in Nazxi Germany.
Bravo Citizen, you let your mouth out run your ideas… again.
I, on the otherhand, routinely let my fingers out run my keyboard.
Chris, I dislike the Nazis analogy as a political weapon no matter which party applies it in their political fight. I had centuries in post war Germany to study its use as a political weapon to develop an instinctive aversion.
Are you suggesting that it is OK for you and your merry group to use it for "the Arabs" and people here but not for anybody to do so? I'd call that double standards.
Would you agree, we drop it altogether in our discourse?
As a Leftists, LeaNder wants the Nazi mark of Cain exclusively and perpetually bestowed upon the German people, just like the Zionists and Bolsheviks want the Nazi mark of Cain perpetually bestowed upon all Gentiles, Christianity AND the German people. It provides a nice diversionary tactic from Jewish fascism, and a nice source of "reparations" funding for the Zionists as well.
Nature abhors a vacuum. The tighter the Left squeezes Christianity, the more the Zionists seem to prosper, which is why truly solving the Zionist problem requires routing the Bolshevik Left as well.
Anyone who sides with or defends the Bolshevik Left in any way doesn’t truly want the Zionist problem solved at all, or puts the destruction of Christianity above the solution of the Zionist problem. Zionism and the Bolshevik Left, after all, were once cross pollinated. Little wonder that certain elements of the Left have misgivings about letting their former comrades go, which goes to show that Communism and Fascism really aren't that far apart. They can actually get along quite nicely at the nexus of certain of the Jewish people.
LeaNDer, your likes and dislikes are no lein on my writing of the truth. If the analogy fits, I will use it.
Phil's Phools use of the analogy never fits in any but the most superficial way.
Don't like my using it, especially when it is certainly appropriat? Tough nuggies.
LeaNder, I accept that the NAZI analogy is not always on all four legs. Not in terms of NAZI philosophy and Zionist philosophy, but in terms of how they were respectively able to be carried out.
chris berel wouldn't lift a finger in your behalf. I would. I value your earnest attempts to confront the past, and work for a better future.
Citizen is so wise. I wonder who does his hair?
On the other hand, Citizen is likely to offer you coffee while planning to cut your throat. I am likely to do neither.
chris berel is likely to insult you while picking your pocket and planning to cut your throat.
I see Weiss' best friend, Ed, just couldn't help himself.
Phil , the claim that Lieberman's success might alienate American Jews is a ridiculous one. If Israel' slaughterfest in Gaza did not alienate American Jews, nothing would. But even if such an eventuality is possible or even probable, what would that say about American Jews? Well, lots, but nothing that exceeds what American Jews' immense support for zionist mass-murder (whether recently in Gaza, in Lebanon in 2006, or on previous occasions) has said about them.
chris we are not to blame for your lack of key erotic nerve endings.
Ok.