Comments on: Lincoln would have accepted the idea of a shadowy, powerful Israel lobby http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 09:59:01 +0000 hourly 1 By: Sword of Gideonthe point. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31572 Sword of Gideonthe point. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31572 <p>It's getting more than a little bizarre with the Lincoln columns. Lincoln would not have been a Palestinian supporter. He used biblical and religious points in his speeches. And immediately lifted Grants order no 11. It's kind of like the drive to make Jesus, ( an observant Jew) into a Palestinian.<br /> </p> It's getting more than a little bizarre with the Lincoln columns. Lincoln would not have been a Palestinian supporter. He used biblical and religious points in his speeches. And immediately lifted Grants order no 11. It's kind of like the drive to make Jesus, ( an observant Jew) into a Palestinian.

]]> By: Me http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31573 Me Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31573 <p>"It's worth remembering that conspiracy theory is often just another name for insight into how power works, because powerful people don't like to leave their fingerprints on dealmaking, especially when the deals involve standing up for apartheid in a foreign country. People with imagination have to read between the lines, and establish the pattern."</p> <p>Thank you for making that statement. A detective who wants to solve a murder mystery must embrace several conspiracy theories, no matter how far-fetched they may seem at the beginning, and no matter what others (especially those implicated in his thoughts) call him, to find the truth.</p> <p>There are conspiracy theories which turn out to be true, and others which don't. You can't tell them apart without looking, sincerely and open-minded, into all of them.</p> "It's worth remembering that conspiracy theory is often just another name for insight into how power works, because powerful people don't like to leave their fingerprints on dealmaking, especially when the deals involve standing up for apartheid in a foreign country. People with imagination have to read between the lines, and establish the pattern."

Thank you for making that statement. A detective who wants to solve a murder mystery must embrace several conspiracy theories, no matter how far-fetched they may seem at the beginning, and no matter what others (especially those implicated in his thoughts) call him, to find the truth.

There are conspiracy theories which turn out to be true, and others which don't. You can't tell them apart without looking, sincerely and open-minded, into all of them.

]]> By: Susie Kneedler http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31574 Susie Kneedler Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31574 <p>The best way to carry out conspiracies is to ridicule "conspiracy theorists" beforehand--that is, anyone who might detect them.</p> The best way to carry out conspiracies is to ridicule "conspiracy theorists" beforehand–that is, anyone who might detect them.

]]> By: Ed http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31575 Ed Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31575 <p>SOG, Lincoln was a Christian, not a Zionist cultist, like yourself.</p> <p>I've noticed that the Obama cult is trying to glom on to Lincoln's heritage as well, apparently replacing the bust of Churchill that Bush had in the White House with a bust of Lincoln. How does Obama square his professed respect for Lincoln with his staunch support for institutionally racialist Zionism? The fact is, he can't, and won't even try to, which just goes to show that Leftist cultists routinely jump in and out of bed with Zionist cultists in each's war to undermine and erode Western civilization in order to replace it with their own ideology.</p> <p>Chameleon-like parasites always temporarily adopt the appearance of those they are attempting to exploit and control until they can firmly impose their own identity on the host society. We've seen this from the Zionists, we're seeing it from the Leftists.</p> SOG, Lincoln was a Christian, not a Zionist cultist, like yourself.

I've noticed that the Obama cult is trying to glom on to Lincoln's heritage as well, apparently replacing the bust of Churchill that Bush had in the White House with a bust of Lincoln. How does Obama square his professed respect for Lincoln with his staunch support for institutionally racialist Zionism? The fact is, he can't, and won't even try to, which just goes to show that Leftist cultists routinely jump in and out of bed with Zionist cultists in each's war to undermine and erode Western civilization in order to replace it with their own ideology.

Chameleon-like parasites always temporarily adopt the appearance of those they are attempting to exploit and control until they can firmly impose their own identity on the host society. We've seen this from the Zionists, we're seeing it from the Leftists.

]]> By: roy belmont http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31576 roy belmont Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31576 <p>That "conspiracy theory has gotten a bad name" is itself the result of a conspiracy. <br /> Theories about conspiracies are not off the top signs of mental disturbance. People have conspired against other people since the invention of language opened up the possibility.<br /> Having theories about conspiracies is at the same time a portal to madness and the threshold of reality.<br /> As the access to information broke out of the hierarchal and controllable mass media and into the wide-open fields of the web, where before the pamphlets and self-published books of conspiracists had almost no weight against glossy magazines and the nightly news,it became pretty clear that viable leaks were going to be an issue - on the internet's pages high-paid journalists and isolated witnesses both can look the same - and those leaks were going to be too many and too low-profile to head off completely. <br /> So first establish the derogatory platform, the ground of derision, start with scorn and only then work toward the possibility of truth, as opposed to begin with an open mind and evaluate. And, as Me noted above, that's what you see.<br /> Anything that smacks of intrigue is dismissed out of hand, still, by the rapidly shrinking majority.<br /> Kennedy, 9/11, Bush1 and the cocaine industry, lots of things out there look pretty complex, and conspired into being. <br /> Gary Webb is still dead. <br /> </p> That "conspiracy theory has gotten a bad name" is itself the result of a conspiracy.
Theories about conspiracies are not off the top signs of mental disturbance. People have conspired against other people since the invention of language opened up the possibility.
Having theories about conspiracies is at the same time a portal to madness and the threshold of reality.
As the access to information broke out of the hierarchal and controllable mass media and into the wide-open fields of the web, where before the pamphlets and self-published books of conspiracists had almost no weight against glossy magazines and the nightly news,it became pretty clear that viable leaks were going to be an issue – on the internet's pages high-paid journalists and isolated witnesses both can look the same – and those leaks were going to be too many and too low-profile to head off completely.
So first establish the derogatory platform, the ground of derision, start with scorn and only then work toward the possibility of truth, as opposed to begin with an open mind and evaluate. And, as Me noted above, that's what you see.
Anything that smacks of intrigue is dismissed out of hand, still, by the rapidly shrinking majority.
Kennedy, 9/11, Bush1 and the cocaine industry, lots of things out there look pretty complex, and conspired into being.
Gary Webb is still dead.

]]> By: BLG http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31577 BLG Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31577 <p>Notions of a powerful Israeli lobby weren't controversial before Mearsheimer and Walt published their book. The loosely affiliated "pro-Israel" lobby (like AIPAC) and their influence was routinely discussed and accepted. </p> <p>In retrospective, its almost humorous that articles like the 2003 Economists discussion of the vanishing "Saudi Lobby," that the Israeli lobby is described as<blockquote><i><a href="http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_TSRDJTP" rel="nofollow">2003</a><br /> ASKED to name the most powerful foreign lobby in America, most people would say Israel's.<br /> --<br /> For all the conspiracy theories about Jewish cabals in the Bush administration, the Israeli lobby is largely a “bottom-up” affair: its power comes from being able to mobilise Jewish voters and fund-raisers, as well as from widespread sympathy for Israel among non-Jews. The Saudis have run a “top-down” operation. There are few Saudi-Americans to be mobilised. The Saudi clout comes from influence on a handful of important people. …</i></blockquote>Descriptions like this permeate the mainstream press before Mearsheimer and Walt's work on "the lobby." In fact, this is one of the key thrusts of their work. The (expected by M&W) panicked and hysterical opposition to their work ran smack into <a href="http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2006/07/dershowitz_cont.html" rel="nofollow">these same descriptions</a>. </p> <p>Comical.</p> Notions of a powerful Israeli lobby weren't controversial before Mearsheimer and Walt published their book. The loosely affiliated "pro-Israel" lobby (like AIPAC) and their influence was routinely discussed and accepted.

In retrospective, its almost humorous that articles like the 2003 Economists discussion of the vanishing "Saudi Lobby," that the Israeli lobby is described as

2003
ASKED to name the most powerful foreign lobby in America, most people would say Israel's.
–
For all the conspiracy theories about Jewish cabals in the Bush administration, the Israeli lobby is largely a “bottom-up” affair: its power comes from being able to mobilise Jewish voters and fund-raisers, as well as from widespread sympathy for Israel among non-Jews. The Saudis have run a “top-down” operation. There are few Saudi-Americans to be mobilised. The Saudi clout comes from influence on a handful of important people. …

Descriptions like this permeate the mainstream press before Mearsheimer and Walt's work on "the lobby." In fact, this is one of the key thrusts of their work. The (expected by M&W) panicked and hysterical opposition to their work ran smack into these same descriptions.

Comical.

]]> By: roy belmont http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31578 roy belmont Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31578 <p>Dead Gazans, dead Iraqis, dead American soldiers, broken Gaza, broken Iraq, broken America.<br /> Hysterical.</p> Dead Gazans, dead Iraqis, dead American soldiers, broken Gaza, broken Iraq, broken America.
Hysterical.

]]> By: Cooper http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31579 Cooper Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31579 <p>If news reports focused on Lincoln's radical characteristics, they would necessarily shed light on just what his radicalism engendered. To wit, a leviathan federal government and executive office with powers expanded far beyond what any of the writers of the Constitution could have imagined in their worst nightmares.</p> <p>Lincoln wasn't focused on the moral aspects of slavery. He was focused on how abolishing it (or supporting it) could help his political career and achieve his goals of pseudo-Whig domination. He was slapping the American Plan onto the nation- abject mercantilism- and he was enabled and financed by some rather shadowy figures (or not so shadowy, if you're a Rothchild). Lincoln was a railroad lawyer, an Empire Builder, and - truth be told- a white nationalist who cared not a whit about the black man unless he could be used as a political tool. He would feel the same about the Palestinians, and the choices he (and Salmon P.) made in financing Licoln's bloody war of Empire should give us an idea of who Lincoln would be kowtowing to today- not that his eventual end would be any different, given the treacherous nature of his associates of choice.</p> If news reports focused on Lincoln's radical characteristics, they would necessarily shed light on just what his radicalism engendered. To wit, a leviathan federal government and executive office with powers expanded far beyond what any of the writers of the Constitution could have imagined in their worst nightmares.

Lincoln wasn't focused on the moral aspects of slavery. He was focused on how abolishing it (or supporting it) could help his political career and achieve his goals of pseudo-Whig domination. He was slapping the American Plan onto the nation- abject mercantilism- and he was enabled and financed by some rather shadowy figures (or not so shadowy, if you're a Rothchild). Lincoln was a railroad lawyer, an Empire Builder, and – truth be told- a white nationalist who cared not a whit about the black man unless he could be used as a political tool. He would feel the same about the Palestinians, and the choices he (and Salmon P.) made in financing Licoln's bloody war of Empire should give us an idea of who Lincoln would be kowtowing to today- not that his eventual end would be any different, given the treacherous nature of his associates of choice.

]]> By: Eva Smagacz http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31580 Eva Smagacz Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31580 <p>So are the Protocols of the Elders of Zion really a work of Anti-Semites? Are we sure? What if they are a long con? a very long con?<br /> What if someone decided to create a smoke screen, or several smoke screens and what if it is a double bluff? You know, you can's say we are doing these things even if it looks like we are doing exactly these things because it's in the book and book, everybody knows is a forgery. Only...... is it?<br /> Would that make conspiracy theory square? Or conspiracy theory cubed?</p> <p>LOL<br /> <br /> One of the evils proposed by elders of Zion was universal suffrage, and in Poland by pure coincidence Roza Pomerantz-Meltzer, of Lvov, was the first woman ever elected to the Parliament of Poland (Sejm). She was elected in 1919 as a member of a Zionist party. This fuelled no end of conspiracy theories in Poland, but also shows a political freedom that minorities enjoyed in Poland.</p> So are the Protocols of the Elders of Zion really a work of Anti-Semites? Are we sure? What if they are a long con? a very long con?
What if someone decided to create a smoke screen, or several smoke screens and what if it is a double bluff? You know, you can's say we are doing these things even if it looks like we are doing exactly these things because it's in the book and book, everybody knows is a forgery. Only…… is it?
Would that make conspiracy theory square? Or conspiracy theory cubed?

LOL

One of the evils proposed by elders of Zion was universal suffrage, and in Poland by pure coincidence Roza Pomerantz-Meltzer, of Lvov, was the first woman ever elected to the Parliament of Poland (Sejm). She was elected in 1919 as a member of a Zionist party. This fuelled no end of conspiracy theories in Poland, but also shows a political freedom that minorities enjoyed in Poland.

]]> By: Me http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html/comment-page-1#comment-31581 Me Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/16/lincoln-would-have-accepted-the-idea-of-a-shadowy-powerful-israel-lobby.html#comment-31581 <p>@Ms. Smagacz:</p> <p>Can you tell me why Dan Brown and countless other writers can say what they want about the Vatican (and I like what they say ;-)), but noone would ever be allowed to write "Angels and Demons" if it involved shenangians within Jewish circles?</p> <p>Now I don't know about any actual historical conspiracies, but I want to read entertaining stories about ALL ancient/religious organizations, not only the Catholics.</p> @Ms. Smagacz:

Can you tell me why Dan Brown and countless other writers can say what they want about the Vatican (and I like what they say ;-)), but noone would ever be allowed to write "Angels and Demons" if it involved shenangians within Jewish circles?

Now I don't know about any actual historical conspiracies, but I want to read entertaining stories about ALL ancient/religious organizations, not only the Catholics.

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