Yesterday at Columbia, Mustafa Barghouti said that 10 Palestinian protesters in the West Bank were killed during the Gaza onslaught when Israelis fired on them during the protests that arose in virtually every village in the occupied territories.
AC adds to that:
It appears that there is a belief propagating that non-violent
resistance is nonexistent among the Palestinians. That's a false
belief. Palestinians and Israelis weekly and sometimes daily peacefully
resist the injustice. They organize protests, chant slogans, embark on
marches -- the works. The Israeli response is habitually violent.
Admittedly, a Palestinian flag raised by a protester is threatening to
an Israeli, but it won't make him bleed. Live ammunition, rubber-coated
steel bullets, rubber bullets, etc., do make Palestinian and Israeli
resisters bleed, however, and sometimes die. In addition to the
violence which meets the peaceful protests, no widespread support --
moral, material, or otherwise -- is mustered for the nonviolent
resistance, as was for other such movements in the U.S.A, India, and
South Africa. The absence of such support -- even when evidence of the
historical injustice is readily available in overwhelming quantity,
and, with the advent of the Internet and the resulting interconnected
model of communication and dissemination, accessible with unprecedented
ease -- in Israel and America (where it matters most), Europe, and
elsewhere is crippling. When the media manage some attention for a dead
Palestinian, and pressure for an investigation by the IDF, the latter
puts together a measly inquiry that many times finds no wrongdoing and
justifies the death by military necessity, standard operating procedure
for occupying powers, as is shown by the abundant use of the euphemism
"collateral damage" and this recent example in Afghanistan, where US
forces justified the death by airstrike of 90 Afghan civilians ("harrowing" video included).
Next time the UN calls for an investigation by the IDF, know that
Israeli investigations are a sham, as HRW found in a 2005 report called
"Promoting Impunity":
The recent investigations and prosecutions cited earlier
notwithstanding, Human Rights Watch has found that Israeli military's
investigative practices and procedures are not impartial, thorough, or timely.
The military rarely has brought wrongdoers to justice, and existing practices
have exerted little deterrent effect.
This is the reality of Palestinian non-violent resistance to Israel. So, when they smugly ask, where is the Palestinian Gandhi?, tell them his body lay cold in an olive orchard somewhere.
Following are only a few resources for information, pictures, and video (Bilin, West Bank, 6/2/09, protesters teargassed by IDF) regarding Palestinian and Israeli non-violent resistance:
http://www.bilin-village.org/
link to www.awalls.org
link to activestills.org
http://palsolidarity.org/
link to www.taayush.org
HRW, accordingly, is not quite the unbiased organization. Peaceful protest, devoid of any violence, is effective. There have been no peaceful protests from the palestinians, that were totally devoid of violence and breaking no laws, were treated with violence.
Chaining yourself to a fence you do not own is not peaceful. Sitting down in a street, blocking traffic, is not peaceful. You are being a bully by trading the hopes that no one will forcebly remove a pliant body in an act that can be done with a gun, holding people at bay.
To claim otherwise is to try to falsely use semantics. it backfires on you every time. Just like when you send a mental retard to blow herself up in the hopes of killing someone.
"Just like when you send a mental retard to blow herself up in the hopes of killing someone. "
Ah. That's why you're here.
Yes, and sitting in at a lunch counter which won't serve you is clearly an aggressive act of law-breaking, maybe violent, even. . .
Where upon you are arrested and go to court and receive vindication.
But it is illegal to continue sitting on the lunch counter, which is private property, no matter how upset you are. Civil disobediance of that sort works when you allow yourself to be arrested, in mass numbers, flood the legal system with such exdamples, and slowly turn public opinion.
But when you do not play by the rules, you open yourself to legal screwing. And no one to blame but yourself.
Jaffr, you are entirely welcome for the legal lesson.
Who are these nutty trolls like Chris Berel and Sword of Gideon who seem to post more than anyone here and have nothing to say other than Israel is always right and the Arabs are evil dogs?
Just a suggestion Chris, sounding reasonable works better (and would be more useful to your cause) than always talking shit.
'private property' according to colonial occupiers' law.
Bwahahahah, Chris is a spoof. He's got to me.
Why doesn't Phil mention Hamas slaughtering a wedding party of Palestinians because they were singing.
“>link to ynetnews.com
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=1275467
Chris I disagree with you about the chaining yourself to a fence or blocking traffic to keep someone out of an area being violent. Annoying, sure, but not violent. If the protesters attack those sent to arrested them however, that is violent. The listed sites describe a mob trying to rush a border security checkpoint. That is a violent act. Teargas was appropriate in that case. A mob doesn't need weapons to kill you.
Knocking down a steel fence is also violent act. As is the stone throwing that even the Palestinian propaganda sites that are listed reported.
Palestinians need to work on the concept of "non-violent". Last time I checked, throwing stones was not non-violent. A demonstration accompanied by incompetent violence is not a non-violent demonstration. In many cases the "thrown" rocks are actually hurled from slings. Not very accurate, but when attacking a mass of people, they don't have to be. You try taking a 100 MPH rock to the forehead or chest and see how non-violent that is.
Lets talk specific cases. Can you post a link to a report of an actual non-violent event by Palestinians that was met with lethal force? One where they didn't destroy property or attack anyone (including stones and unarmed attacks)?
I didn't find any in the links you posted.
Posted by: Julian | February 13, 2009 at 02:19 PM
Maybe it's because Phil knows that most of the crimes attributed to Hamas in Gaza like the bombing of stores, salons, etc., are actually not being carried out by Hamas but are being perpetrated by Mohammad Dahlan's hooligans who by the way are supported, aided, assisted by the United States.
Palestinians need to work on the concept of "non-violent".
Bullshit. Palestinians have every right to defend themselves and resist an illegal and shameful occupation.
Israel seems to take delight in beating the crap out of those with limited means to fight back; kicking puppies, as it were. They need some of their own medicine.
Hopefully, one Palestinian group or another will soon acquire missiles with enough range to hit Tel Aviv and enough payload to get the shopping mall set's attention. Sadly, only by getting a little bit of what they've been dishing out will they realize that their actions have been wrong and disgraceful.
I Cannot stay long, but since I saw some displays of supposedly antisemitic acts in your media I'd like to let this somewhat old but very relevant link for people who are not yet fully aware of the deceptive nature of victimhood.
http://thegreatrevolt.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/when-hate-crimes-are-self-inflicted/
It's a collection of links, including the shameful tale of Rabbi Gabriel Farhi. Enjoy, if you can.
chris berel is really my kind of fascist… why don't you run for office, berel? your slogan can be 'israel first AND second', and you can shock us all and paint for opponents as huge anti-semites.
So, looks like the Palestinians need a little guidance from old veterans of the American Civil Rights movement. How about the protesters
march en masse to a bunch of key Israeli and tourist watering holes, with leaks to the foreign press and sympathetic entities in advance.
Have a bunch of peaceful protesters sit down, and refuse to get up. Other sympathizers come out of the background and take pics and videos as the owners of the watering holes get angry, and other potential customers who want to sit down, or don't enjoy the protesters'
quiet company–start to yell insults at the protesters, threaten them with fists, etc; maybe even attack them. The protesters could be wearing a modest Free Palestine symbol, pin, etc. The local police come buy and drag off the protesters (who remain non-violent even if beaten with clubs, hand-cuffed, hosed with water, etc– and jail them, and, as is usual anyway the jewish cops
ignore the violence done by jews, even if they started it. I bet dana could give us a realistic point of view if a sit-down would work or not, and why.
Why doesn't Phil mention …
Americans do not arm Palestinians or confer with them on militant strategy, like they do with Israelis. Since Americans have no complicity in any alleged Palestinian crimes, they need not take responsibility for their commission, whereas Americans are complicit with Israel's crimes, supplying Israel with weapons, intelligence and strategy, and have to take responsibility for them.
It seems we keep repeating the same old cliches.
Just refer to how many Palestinians are being held without trial, and that really should indicate what happens to those who object, either violently or non-violently. They all end up there, exiled, or dead.
'Sadly, only by getting a little bit of what they've been dishing out will they realize that their actions have been wrong and disgraceful.'
It's a sad irony that the 'force is the only language those people understand' meme which has gone around, has come around at last.
I (and millions of others) told you so.
Hopefully, one Palestinian group or another will soon acquire missiles with enough range to hit Tel Aviv and enough payload to get the shopping mall set's attention. Posted by: Sam
I see Sam can't wait for the Palestinians to make their final suicidal gesture.
Something for Julian:
Something for Thom.
Stones came after the tear gas, and gee, maybe possibly after the occupation itself? Do you think Hercules is throwing these stones? 100mph?
"400 of the dead Pals were babies, children, and women."
That is incorrect. Around 400, that is, one third, of the dead were babies and children. The women killed were in addition to that.
Do you think Hercules is throwing these stones? 100mph?
Posted by: dance | February 14, 2009 at 12:51 AM
Ever hit by a stone? Ever hit by a sharp stone? Ever hit by a stone thrown by a sling shot? Ever see your mother hit by a stone?
The comments above that directly say and/or suggest that the Palestinian people do not have a long history of nonviolent protest dating back to, at least 1917 are totally ignorant of the history of the region. Whether by the mandate Brits or the pre-Israel Jewish agencies, or the actions of Israel the state, the long history of Palestinian attempts at peaceful negotiation, followed by a wide variety of nonviolent activity were ALWAYS met with quick and overwhelmingly blunt force. The succession of Palestinian terror groups were and are always
reactively formed as a last resort. Americans really need to read up on the history of the region since, at least 1914. They need to know what has been left out of hasbara talking points for generations now. The future of the USA depends on it, as does even a chance for
peace in the Middle East, so important for the whole world.
Yes, I certainly recall the peaceful, nonviolent protest that resulted in the slaughter of Jews at Hebron along with the susequent ethic cleansing in 1929.
I see the truth and citizen just can't get along.
"It would have seemed more sensible to me to establish a Jewish homeland on a less historically-burdened land. But I know that such a rational viewpoint would never have gained the enthusiasm of the masses and the financial support of the wealthy. I concede with sorrow that the baseless fanaticism of our people is in part to be blamed for the awakening of Arab distrust. I can raise no sympathy at all for the misdirected piety which transforms a piece of a Herodian wall into a national relic, thereby offending the feelings of the natives.
Now judge for yourself whether I, with such a critical point of view, am the right person to come forward as the solace of a people deluded by unjustified hope.” (Freud's Letter to Dr. Chaim Koffler Keren HaYassod, Vienna: 26 February 1930; posted at the Freud Institute in UK website:
After years of non-violent Palestinian protest and ignored appeals to the Brits, a new religious element entered into the question on September 24, 1928. On that day, controversy arose at a section of the Haram AlSharif/Temple mount called the Western Wall by Jews and Al Buraq by Muslims (some Jews think it part of the old temple, some Muslims believe it is where the Prophet Muhammaed landed on his night Journey to Jerusalem). It was part of the Muslim Waqf sites but Muslims have traditionally allowed Jewish prayers there. The Jewish worshippers on that day violated both tradition and British policy by erecting a partition at the sight. As the days passed by and the Jewish leaders refused to remove the barrier, Muslim anger mounted and moved from letters and protests in November 1928 to dueling demonstrations in August 1929 to a week of rioting between August 23-29, 1929.