‘the most important book to read’

by on February 2, 2009 38
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Writes Mohammad of Vancouver:  A Fundamental Fear: Eurocentrism and the Emergence of Islamism, by Bobby Sayyid. There is this much of this free online. I cannot stress how important it is to read this book, to pass it on to others. And to highlight the intellectual achievement of this lesser known of the two Sayyids (spelling of his name different than Edward's and he is from Pakistan.) Please read and pass on...

Posted in Israel/Palestine, Middle East, US Policy in the Middle East, US Politics

{ 38 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. chris berel says:
    February 2, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Are you saying that Israel forbids the practice of any particular religion? Other then prostilization, child sacrifice (a favorite of Hamas), and suicidal religions, I don't believe Israel bans anything.

  2. Mohammad says:
    February 2, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    Israel is the largest practitioner of Human Sacrifice in modern times. Do not kid yourself Chris. We all know that.

    In fact the Gaza war made that clear for the entire world that Israel has a problem with human life. That Israel's main objective is to destroy the international respect for Human life.

    Israel strives on moral corruption of nation states through setting the worse precedents in war and peace, in propaganda and in communication. The entire history of Israel is parallel to the decline of humanism and humanity.

    And Israel is proud of it. And you are proud of israel. That makes you yourself an enemy of humanity and humanism.

  3. D. says:
    February 2, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    I intend to try again, and I thank Mohammed for the encouragement, but the first time I tried it I found this book unreadable. It's written in that standard modern careerist academicese that ties itself up in knots to avoid ever being pinned down.

    But maybe I was in a bad mood.

  4. Sam says:
    February 2, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Hey Chris! You're still evading my question! If Israel considered the "blockage" of '67 and act of war (as you are now trumpeting elsewhere on this board), then surely you must consider the blockage imposed by Israel an act of war against Gaza, no?

    Surely you don't have a dishonest intellectual bone in your body and we all know you're such a clever gent. So please, just answer the question. Being evasive may lead others to think your presence on this board may not be entirely sincere, and you wouldn't want that, would you?

    [To others, sorry 'bout this. I know, I know - don't feed the trolls....]

  5. Dan Kelly says:
    February 2, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    To all the newbies to this board: The contention that "Islam is a warfare religion" is a recent talking point created by the Israeli Ministry of Defence. (I dont have the link at hand to the three-page report that sets it out.) It is carried out in this country by the ex-Trotskyite David Horowitz and the rabid Daniel Pipes and his ilk.

    Anyone with a modicum of history education at the university level knows that these pronouncements are tales out of Mother Goose.

    Excellent point, MRW. Thanks for spreading the message and fighting the disgusting propaganda campaign.

  6. Chris Berel says:
    February 2, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    It appears that Mohammad is stuck in "1984"

  7. Citizen says:
    February 2, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    Chris Berel, you have yet to answer Query's or Jim Geiger's questions to you. BTW, are you claiming that non-Jewish citizens of Israel have the same political and civil rights as Jewish Americans, for example, have here in the the USA? Is the state as governed and legally parsed affording equal rights regardless of creed?

  8. Joachim Martillo says:
    February 2, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    The book is puzzling.

    Does it include salafism, politicized Islam/Qutbism, and jihadism under the term Islamism? I usually think of the second form of politics as Islamism.

    There is a lot of hybridization, for the Deobandi and Khilifat Movements both have aspects of the first two categories.

    The Khilifat Movement in colonial India was a reaction to the dismantlement of the Ottoman Empire.

    Even though Arab jihadism first expresses itself to any significant degree as part of the struggle against the Soviets in Afghanistan, it grows directly out of the Palestinian resitance.

    Any study of contemporary Arab or Islamic politics that does not discuss

    • the effect on the whole Islamic world of the dismantlement of the Ottoman Empire or
    • the practically universal and legitimately hostile reaction of all Muslims to the invasion and theft of Palestine by racist murderous genocidal Eastern Europeans

    is simply deficient and probably engaging in a conscious cover-up of the importance of Jewish conspiracy and aggression in the development of the contemporary political situation.

    In Re: Partition Still Casts Shadow On India-Pakistan Ties discusses the context and interconnections that any analysis of contemporary Arabic or Islamic politics must address to be taken seriously.

  9. Chris Berel says:
    February 2, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    Jewish citizens of Israel do not have the same rights as americans in America. Why would they?

  10. Chris Berel says:
    February 2, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Joachim still fails to answer why the racist murderous genocidal Eastern Europeans
    did not commit genocide in the palestinian region, especially when they had so many ample opportunities.

    Could it be that Joachim is merely a racist aping the unproven opinions of his mentors?

  11. Mohammad says:
    February 2, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    "….Any study of contemporary Arab or Islamic politics that does not discuss

    the effect on the whole Islamic world of the dismantlement of the Ottoman Empire or
    the practically universal and legitimately hostile reaction of all Muslims to the invasion and theft of Palestine by racist murderous genocidal Eastern Europeans.''

    The book actually addresses the first part extensively. and the second part is what the second part of the book is about. the fall of islamism has to do with the dismantlement of the Ottoman and the rise of islamism has to do with the occupation of 1967 and the rise of Khomeini.

    so the answer is YES. the book deals with your issues.

    to those who think this book's language is hard, i suggest reading some contemporary theory and philosophy to see how much easier the book is. This is a book of ideas, so it has to remain abstract and engage with contemporary thought.

    Bebel just confirmed my position. humanism is passe for zionists like him. Humanism is very 1984 i guess.

  12. LanceThruster says:
    February 2, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    (W)hy the racist murderous genocidal Eastern Europeans
    did not commit genocide in the palestinian region, especially when they had so many ample opportunities.

    —-

    Because they understand PR better than their predecessors did. They've chosen a slow-motion ethnic cleansing with "little" bursts of slaughter claimed to be "defensive."

    Using Zionist tactics, the Third Reich may have had better luck perpetrating their own crimes.

    How about answering the questions put to you, berel? The blockade issue for instance.

  13. Citizen says:
    February 2, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    Chris Berel, you have yet to answer Query's or Jim Geiger's questions to you. Come on, you can do it!

    BTW, are you claiming that non-Jewish citizens of Israel have the same political and civil rights as Jewish citizens of Israel? Does the state of Israel, as governed and legally parsed afford equal rights to all of its citizens regardless of creed?

  14. chris berel says:
    February 2, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    I see you've changed your question, citizen. But after I answered your previous question, you failed to answer mine.

    Regardless, I don't know what question of Querry or Geiger's that I failed to answer.

    I'm always willing to educate people like you. Must suck being so ignorant.

  15. chris berel says:
    February 2, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    The blockade question was answered, lance. Did you fail to answer the request for further information?

    Are you now claiming that the racist murderous genocidal Eastern Europeans are no longer racist murderous genocidal Eastern Europeans because of PR? Or are you just aping Joachim?

  16. Suzanne says:
    February 2, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    To all earnest idiots on this board If you read anything beyond what your kool aid masters gave you…you'd know that Islam and Christian Europe have been at odds with each other for centuries.

    How utterly embarrassing that you don't know that.

    Time for intervention and de-culting, you're completely out of control.

  17. Mohammad says:
    February 2, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    notice how berel and Suzanne never engage with rational comments? They like to respond to emotional outbursts because they can argue their genocidal and murderous points much more efficiently that way.

    Have you noticed how they disrespect anyone they like, but are highly sensitive when it comes to respect for Israel? If you cannot argue calmly and logically with these IDF robots, you'd better not talk. The genocidal eastern europeans theory does not hold under scrutiny.

  18. Joachim Martillo says:
    February 2, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    The viewer is only allowing me to look through page 67, but it appears the effects of the dismantlement of the Ottoman Empire are only discussed in the Turkish context even though the vivisection was a major input into Indian colonial politics and had strong effects even as far away as Malaysia.

    With an intact Ottoman empire, Oil politics would have been completely different, and the Zionist project would have been eradicated some time in the 1920s.

    The elimination of the most highly evolved sharia state that was for all intents and purposes as much a Rechstaat in its central region as contemporary Germany or the UK changed the way salafists talked about sharia as they reverted to models from the 18th century and earlier.

  19. Joachim Martillo says:
    February 3, 2009 at 12:21 am

    Zionist ideology is already openly genocidal in the 1880s.

    Contemporary and Lemkin's discussion of genocide does not require mass murder, for physical destruction is sufficient.

    Lemkin was explicit that he wanted to include German Nazi policy during the 1930s as genocidal even though we would describe the practices of Nazi Germany during that time period as ethnic cleansing rather than as mass murder.

    In addition Lemkin explicitly identified the destruction of the Ostdeutsch communities of Eastern Europe as genocide.

    I have had this discussion twice with Samantha Power, and she has invariably shown a completely lack of understanding both of Lemkin's thinking and of Zionist ideology or policy.

    Zionist Ashkenazi genocidalism also has strong similarity to Soviet Ashkenazi genocidalism as I point out in The Pattern of Ethnic Ashkenazi Genocidalism.

    BTW, the Jewish population of Nazi Germany increased between January 1933 and May 1941. This statistic does not make Nazi Germany any less genocidal under either the Lemkin or international definitions of genocide.

    It is important to be relentless in identifying Jewish Zionists whether in Europe, in N. America or in the ME as genocidaires because there is only one way to salvage the US and world economy, and I describe it in Corrupt Jewish Social Networking Rules!

    [By the way I have not infrequently seen the term retzah am itti in Haaretz as a description of Israeli policy in the OT. Technically, in Hebrew genocide is hashmadat am. If the policy is retzah am, it is definitely hashmadat am.]

    Americans must come to think of Jewish Zionists not as productive fellow citizens (they aren't) but as a genocidal and exploitive criminal conglomeration, which has been the reality for over 60 years.

    Given how Zionists plundered Palestinians in 1947-8 and continue to plunder Palestinians to this day, a legal clawback from Zionist political economic oligarchs, the organized Jewish community, and Israel advocacy organizations is simply turnabout and fair play.

  20. chris berel says:
    February 3, 2009 at 7:06 am

    BTW, what was the increase in Jews in Germany? Source? Any explaination how this Zionist Ashkenazi genocidalism never caused a recognized (by any means other than arab whining) act of genocide?

  21. Rowan says:
    February 3, 2009 at 7:57 am

    Time for intervention and de-culting, you're completely out of control. Posted by: Suzanne | February 02, 2009 at 10:29 PM

    Where did she get this terminology? Anyone?

  22. Rowan says:
    February 3, 2009 at 8:15 am

    I wonder if it could be Janet Reno and the Waco Massacre she has in her mind's eye …

  23. Joachim Martillo says:
    February 3, 2009 at 9:09 am

    The Jewish population of Germany was higher in 1940 than it was in 1933 because Germany had incorporated territories of Poland which had a larger Jewish population than all of Germany in 1933.

    Now that the Soviet Union has fallen, we know that the architects and perpetrators of Soviet genocide and ethnic cleansing were almost entirely Jewish.

    This Jewish violence develops out the history of Jewish assassinations, sabotage, and murderous violence in the 19th century.

    We are relatively unaware of this history in the USA because Jews in academia and the media lie about Jewish history.

    The NY Times only admitted within the last 2-3 years that all the killers of Czar Nicholas II and his family were Jewish.

    The sufferings of Palestinians at the hands of murderous and fanatic Jews is nothing new.

    Just as Jews expect that Germans show remorse for the crimes that have arisen from German politics, non-Jews must demand that Jews show remorse for the crimes that have arisen from Jewish politics.

    A Jew that supports Israel is the exact counterpart of an unrepentant German Nazi and should be treated as an object of disdain and contempt by all decent people.

  24. Suzanne says:
    February 3, 2009 at 9:38 am

    I wonder if Electroconvulsive Therapy would help these diseased minds. Prescription drugs are OBVIOUSLY not working. haha!

    Joachim–if I ever bump into you at Sevan grocery (fantastic place!)…I'm dragging your crazy butt to McLean.

  25. Rowan says:
    February 3, 2009 at 10:06 am

    Perhaps Suzanne is trying to hint that according to your ADL file, Joachim, at some point in your long life, like about half of the US population, you obtained psychiatric advice of some sort. This would be a perfect example of the Stalinist methods these trolls delight in (and probably, like her claim that I was a member of some fascist party in England, completely fabricated).

  26. Mohammad says:
    February 3, 2009 at 10:27 am

    I agree with:

    "Just as Jews expect that Germans show remorse for the crimes that have arisen from German politics, non-Jews must demand that Jews show remorse for the crimes that have arisen from Jewish politics."

    But won't agree with this:

    "A Jew that supports Israel is the exact counterpart of an unrepentant German Nazi and should be treated as an object of disdain and contempt by all decent people."

    However if modified to read like this:

    "A Jew that supports Israel is the exact counterpart of an unrepentant pro Apartheid South African.

  27. Suzanne says:
    February 3, 2009 at 10:40 am

    How about this: An Arab (or any assorted stooge) who supports Hamas is in a binding partnership with global, genocidal Islamist jihad.

  28. MM says:
    February 3, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Suzanne, you already cried wolf about the dangers of having to co-exist with the goyim. (That's your justification for racist Israel, remember?)

    Are you now saying that Hamas has a global campaign to exterminate "the Jews"? Are they gonna do it one rocket at a time? Hope they're not busy for the next 5,000,000 years ey?

    Do you ever talk to your shrink about your paranoia issues?

  29. Suzanne says:
    February 3, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Nice try MM. haha! Sorry you don't understand the definition of PARTNERSHIP and all that it implies.

    Funny how people don't have to look too
    hard to see the agenda and threat of jihad (Muslims are fighting "infidels" in other locales besides Israel).

    It's in plain sight for all to see.

    While conversely, you have to repeatedly decipher the evil intent of zionism for the "stupid masses."

    That just about sums it up in a nutshell. :-)

    It must be a bummer to be on the wrong side of history like you are.

  30. Joachim Martillo says:
    February 3, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Mohammad, I have to assume that you have not looked at the primary literature for German Nazism and Zionism. The Zionists were writing about killing the native population long before the German Nazis moved from ideas of expulsion to ideas of mass killing under the logic of compelling necessity.

    The writings of the early Zionist leader Max Nordau are just as critical in the development of German Nazi thinking as they are in Zionist thought, and the basic ideological elements of German Nazism and Zionism at least initially were identical.

    Jabotinsky's ethnic monism eventually became a good deal more extreme than the ethnic fundamentalism of German Nazism.

    I understand that you have probably worked very hard to develop a way to talk about Zionism with Westerners, but you are wrong about the comparisons. I have relatives that knew Nazi Germany, Israel, and Apartheid South Africa quite well.

    They all agreed that Israel was at least extreme as Nazi Germany and that Zionists never actually had the quite the cover or the Hilfswillige to carry out the sort of mass killing that the German Nazis managed after the invasion of the Soviet Union. The Apartheid-supporting Afrikaners were also-rans in terms of ideology and brutality.

    I don't have the experience of my relatives, but I am a Jewish studies expert and don't have to mince words on the comparison between German Nazism and Zionism as Arabs or Muslims in the USA often feel themselves compelled to do.

  31. Citizen says:
    February 4, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Joachim Martillo speaks wide documented truth (as distinct from narrow popular truth). Let the chips fall from Martillo's courageous research. If Americans don't get it, they will continue to be the victims, even as they victimize those the Zionists target in their name. If you need a model for power politics, look to the court Jew of history, then simmer in modern psuedo-democracy, that is, plutocracy, especially in the USA because it is the only current super-power.

  32. Citizen says:
    February 2, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    A couple key points in this book–just my opinion, and in my own words:

    The use of the word "nativist" to suggest a diaspora of muslims
    across lots of the world where they are mostly the have-nots in a changing world and no influential language speaks to them or their sense of
    fairness.

    The notion of "Islam" as being the thinnest of metaphoric/symbolic signifiers to suggest to the powers that be
    what their key concerns are.

    The rubric of their folk language is not understood, but only demonized by the powers that be.

    The long abstract sentences in the book pile on, one after the other, trying to clarify what is Islam, for example from occidental versus oriental POV, and according to all morphs in between–not unlike internal positions between jewish sects/philosophies regarding the question, what is Judaism? But lacking the narrative clarity afforded by a narrower view of us-v-them, the given more
    tribal lesson all jews imbibe from infancy. Hard to put my finger on, but I can suggest the difference: Do muslims around the world ever refer to themselves, among themselves, as MOT?
    No, because despite the history Mohhamed, Islam is more abstract, more universal in aspiration, than Judiasm, though both have their share of meticulous
    daily rituals for members so given.

  33. chris berel says:
    February 2, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Because they are not MOT. Judaism is a tribal religion while Islam is a warfare religion, meant to convert by the end of a sword. No other means needed.

  34. MRW. says:
    February 2, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    You are so full of shit, Mr. Berel, and obviously grossly uneducated. While Jews within their community were a closed society, devoid of scholarship or advancement — in fact, rabbinical law prevented any reading other than approved texts — from 200 AD until 1835 AD (Shahak), the Islam world was responsible for some of our greatest advances in Europe.

    Everyone read this:
    link to newdawnmagazine.com

  35. MRW. says:
    February 2, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    To all the newbies to this board: The contention that "Islam is a warfare religion" is a recent talking point created by the Israeli Ministry of Defence. (I dont have the link at hand to the three-page report that sets it out.) It is carried out in this country by the ex-Trotskyite David Horowitz and the rabid Daniel Pipes and his ilk.

    Anyone with a modicum of history education at the university level knows that these pronouncements are tales out of Mother Goose.

  36. Query says:
    February 2, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    Why would anyone value a tribal religion if they were not part of the tribe? Such a religion by definition is more like a birth cult than a religion aspiring to be good for all Man. Do the Hottentots require religious conversion to be part of their tribe? To be a full citizen of Israel for those not born Jewish requires orthodox conversion. What other nation has such citizenship criteria? Should the Hottentots have their own state?

  37. Jim Geiger says:
    February 2, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    In which countries with any particular dominant religion are all citizens given the most right to practice their own religion? Which religion's scripture supports the least violence? Looks to me like the
    Muslim states don't even come close, and Israel, hardly better.

  38. k_nomad says:
    February 2, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    MRW it would be good to have a look at the link regrading the "talking point created by the Israeli Ministry of Defence".

    I wonder if you could be so kind ?