Comments on: Will educated Israelis stop believing in Israel? http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 08:29:38 +0000 hourly 1 By: Colin Murray http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32638 Colin Murray Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32638 <p>"I believe that [gradually.. then suddenly] will describe the American awakening here. Our politics are just too dynamic and impatient."</p> <p>I agree. Much or most of the Lobby's influence is based on fear. The dissolution of this fear, perhaps triggered by a major espionage scandal, might cause the Lobby to lose majority support in Congress. If they can't corral more than half of legislators, then the American government will restart putting America first. Another possibility is that attacking an opposing candidate's dual loyalty might become a viable political tactic. Then it's bandwagon time.</p> <p>Anyone know the status of the Rosen and Weissman trial? It's already been postponed at least five times. How much longer can Judge Ellis stall?</p> "I believe that [gradually.. then suddenly] will describe the American awakening here. Our politics are just too dynamic and impatient."

I agree. Much or most of the Lobby's influence is based on fear. The dissolution of this fear, perhaps triggered by a major espionage scandal, might cause the Lobby to lose majority support in Congress. If they can't corral more than half of legislators, then the American government will restart putting America first. Another possibility is that attacking an opposing candidate's dual loyalty might become a viable political tactic. Then it's bandwagon time.

Anyone know the status of the Rosen and Weissman trial? It's already been postponed at least five times. How much longer can Judge Ellis stall?

]]> By: chris berel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32639 chris berel Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32639 <p>Certainly, as American's become less and less educated, they will fall into the fascist trap of isolationism which screwed the US during the 30's.</p> <p>When the US falls to that level of idiocy, support for Israel will diminish. </p> <p>But by that time, the US may be dependant on aid from Israel.<br /> </p> Certainly, as American's become less and less educated, they will fall into the fascist trap of isolationism which screwed the US during the 30's.

When the US falls to that level of idiocy, support for Israel will diminish.

But by that time, the US may be dependant on aid from Israel.

]]> By: delia http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32640 delia Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32640 <p>There may be "great sadness" here, but there's also wishful thinking. A massive--and decently publicized--exodus of educated Israelis is what's needed to break the impasse. Because, as I see it, there's nothing in this election which guarantees that we won't be seeing more of the same on what is laughably called the "peace process." Mitchell is just the guy needed to help Israel drag its feet, and Obama has better things to do than worry about the Palestinians.</p> There may be "great sadness" here, but there's also wishful thinking. A massive–and decently publicized–exodus of educated Israelis is what's needed to break the impasse. Because, as I see it, there's nothing in this election which guarantees that we won't be seeing more of the same on what is laughably called the "peace process." Mitchell is just the guy needed to help Israel drag its feet, and Obama has better things to do than worry about the Palestinians.

]]> By: David Seaton http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32641 David Seaton Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32641 <p>My knowledge of Yiddish is scanty, just enough to get by, but I think the word <i>"mishegoss"</i> would be the most apt to describe the American relation to Israel. </p> My knowledge of Yiddish is scanty, just enough to get by, but I think the word "mishegoss" would be the most apt to describe the American relation to Israel.

]]> By: Todd http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32642 Todd Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32642 <p>Why is there an assumption that America should welcome Israeli emigres with open arms? If Israel and America aren't a fit, why should anyone believe that Israelis have a place in America? I don't wish anyone harm, but enough is enough!</p> Why is there an assumption that America should welcome Israeli emigres with open arms? If Israel and America aren't a fit, why should anyone believe that Israelis have a place in America? I don't wish anyone harm, but enough is enough!

]]> By: Citizen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32643 Citizen Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32643 <p>chris berel's totally lame Hasbara response says everything. His response amounts to a concession that reality has finally penetrated the USA--it's analogous to the sub-prime bubble burst, followed on its heels by a kleig light on Wall Street, the banksters, then Madoff. </p> <p>Problem for Hasbara ilk is that Americans are becoming more and more educated. The "clean break" neocon picture has become more and more dirty. The USA is waking up. Israel is stuck in its own propaganda. Iraq, Gaza, the source of why the USA needs to bailout Wall St et al, <br /> is leveraging up the total awakening of everybody but Joe The Plumber and Pallin types. </p> <p>The USA dependent on Israel aid? Since when did the beggar afford aid to the passer-by who puts change in the beggar's tin cup?</p> <p>LOL</p> chris berel's totally lame Hasbara response says everything. His response amounts to a concession that reality has finally penetrated the USA–it's analogous to the sub-prime bubble burst, followed on its heels by a kleig light on Wall Street, the banksters, then Madoff.

Problem for Hasbara ilk is that Americans are becoming more and more educated. The "clean break" neocon picture has become more and more dirty. The USA is waking up. Israel is stuck in its own propaganda. Iraq, Gaza, the source of why the USA needs to bailout Wall St et al,
is leveraging up the total awakening of everybody but Joe The Plumber and Pallin types.

The USA dependent on Israel aid? Since when did the beggar afford aid to the passer-by who puts change in the beggar's tin cup?

LOL

]]> By: David Seaton http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32644 David Seaton Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32644 <p>What I would dread is not that <i>"a large number of sophisticated Israelis, particularly those who feel the deepest affinity with America"</i> would emigrate to America if Israel began to collapse, but that a huge number of Shasniks, Likudniks, Haredim and Liebermanites would. Then the USA would have a situation similar to what France experienced after Algerian independence when the south of France filled up with revanchist Pied Noir. Remember the OAS? </p> What I would dread is not that "a large number of sophisticated Israelis, particularly those who feel the deepest affinity with America" would emigrate to America if Israel began to collapse, but that a huge number of Shasniks, Likudniks, Haredim and Liebermanites would. Then the USA would have a situation similar to what France experienced after Algerian independence when the south of France filled up with revanchist Pied Noir. Remember the OAS?

]]> By: Dimitrijevic http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32645 Dimitrijevic Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32645 <p>Mr Ray Close writes: <i>Israel is not an American aircraft carrier that protects US strategic interests in the whole region; that Israel is not the final line of defence against the threat of nuclear attack by dangerously unstable governments bent on destruction of Homeland America.</i></p> <p><br /> First off, I live in the United States, not "Homeland America." If we're going to use that type of rhetoric let's get it right: "Das Vaterland."</p> <p>What nation or entity in the Middle East are we supposed to fear because it's planning a "nuclear attack" on the United States? Would that be Pakistan? Israel perhaps? Mr Close cannot mean Iran. That country does not even possess a nuclear weapon and if it did the Iranians would certainly not commit national suicide by exploding it against the United States. </p> <p>Speaking of Iran: From an economic, political and strategic perspective it's rather difficult to argue that Israel is more valuable to the United States than is Iran. It makes more sense that the USA should stop pouting about the <a href="http://tehranlive.org/2009/02/11/30th-anniversary-of-the-revolution-in-tehran/" rel="nofollow">1979 Revolution</a> and get on with the task of cultivating a close relationship with the Persians. The Americans do not <i>need</i> a land-based aircraft carrier in the region. We have plenty of those at sea already, round the world. The Israelis are big boys, they can take care of themselves. It's time for them to learn to play well with others and stop leaning on the USA to settle their disputes and serve as the older brother they can call when things aren't going their way. Israel has its national interests and America has its national interests. The two are not identical.</p> Mr Ray Close writes: Israel is not an American aircraft carrier that protects US strategic interests in the whole region; that Israel is not the final line of defence against the threat of nuclear attack by dangerously unstable governments bent on destruction of Homeland America.

First off, I live in the United States, not "Homeland America." If we're going to use that type of rhetoric let's get it right: "Das Vaterland."

What nation or entity in the Middle East are we supposed to fear because it's planning a "nuclear attack" on the United States? Would that be Pakistan? Israel perhaps? Mr Close cannot mean Iran. That country does not even possess a nuclear weapon and if it did the Iranians would certainly not commit national suicide by exploding it against the United States.

Speaking of Iran: From an economic, political and strategic perspective it's rather difficult to argue that Israel is more valuable to the United States than is Iran. It makes more sense that the USA should stop pouting about the 1979 Revolution and get on with the task of cultivating a close relationship with the Persians. The Americans do not need a land-based aircraft carrier in the region. We have plenty of those at sea already, round the world. The Israelis are big boys, they can take care of themselves. It's time for them to learn to play well with others and stop leaning on the USA to settle their disputes and serve as the older brother they can call when things aren't going their way. Israel has its national interests and America has its national interests. The two are not identical.

]]> By: chris berel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32646 chris berel Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32646 <p>Iranians, as muslims, do not seem to shy from suicide if they think it will kill an enemy.</p> <p>The Israelis are fully capable of taking care of their problems. They just can't justify it morally. That is why the US helps.</p> <p>islamic fascist nations have no moral problems in justifying genocide. Just look at Saddam's Iraq and the Sudan.</p> Iranians, as muslims, do not seem to shy from suicide if they think it will kill an enemy.

The Israelis are fully capable of taking care of their problems. They just can't justify it morally. That is why the US helps.

islamic fascist nations have no moral problems in justifying genocide. Just look at Saddam's Iraq and the Sudan.

]]> By: seethelight http://mondoweiss.net/2009/02/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-32647 seethelight Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/11/will-educated-israelis-stop-believing-in-israel.html#comment-32647 <p>Israelis -- sophisticated and unsophisticated -- are soley responsible for the death of the two-state solution. They chose to remain deaf, dumb and blind about the horrible injustices imposed on Palestinians by their government and now they plan to abandon ship? Sorry, stay home and deal with the consequences. </p> <p>The past 40 years or so Israelis have ceded all authority to successive governments, saying -- in effect -- protect us at all costs so we can get rich and live an easy life. Well, the time for two states has run out and Israelis must begin facing up to their failure and start imagining their lives in a state where Israelis and Palestinians live under equal protection of the law. If not, the only alternative is an apartheid state in all of Israel, not just the West Bank. If Israelis think they're hated now, particularly in Europe, they'll find no open doors when they try to flee an apartheid Israel. Just ask South Africans.<br /> </p> Israelis — sophisticated and unsophisticated — are soley responsible for the death of the two-state solution. They chose to remain deaf, dumb and blind about the horrible injustices imposed on Palestinians by their government and now they plan to abandon ship? Sorry, stay home and deal with the consequences.

The past 40 years or so Israelis have ceded all authority to successive governments, saying — in effect — protect us at all costs so we can get rich and live an easy life. Well, the time for two states has run out and Israelis must begin facing up to their failure and start imagining their lives in a state where Israelis and Palestinians live under equal protection of the law. If not, the only alternative is an apartheid state in all of Israel, not just the West Bank. If Israelis think they're hated now, particularly in Europe, they'll find no open doors when they try to flee an apartheid Israel. Just ask South Africans.

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