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	<title>Comments on: (Groundhog day in the Middle East) Elliott Abrams says if we bomb Iran, the people will turn against the ayatollahs and welcome freedom</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:03:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: 5 dancing shlomos</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22294</link>
		<dc:creator>5 dancing shlomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;choose between israeli jew 1 or israeli jews 2. karim?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;does israeli 1 say why and from what iran must be deterred. a peaceful life?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;when do we have a &#039;debate&#039; between camera and flame.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>choose between israeli jew 1 or israeli jews 2. karim?</p>
<p>does israeli 1 say why and from what iran must be deterred. a peaceful life?</p>
<p>when do we have a &#39;debate&#39; between camera and flame.</p>
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		<title>By: Gert</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22295</link>
		<dc:creator>Gert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Elliott Abrams and Joshua Muravchik are theocrats: no amount of empirical evidence will ever change their minds.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Bombing Iran will only cause its people to rally around the leadership. This is historically true of just about any bombing in the entire world. See also 9/11: if the Radical Towelheads thought it would make the US change course, they&#039;ve been proven sadly mistaken.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Bomb their [Iranian] &#039;nuke sites&#039; and they&#039;ll rebuild in record time but better and deeper.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The &#039;Mullahs&#039; aren&#039;t &#039;mad&#039;, they&#039;ve shown themselves shrewd and skillful players in diplomacy. To nuke attack Israel would be thoroughly suicidal. No collectivity would carry out such an attack, in the full knowledge certain death would follow it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Elliott Abrams and Joshua Muravchik need mental health care, not a soapbox.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elliott Abrams and Joshua Muravchik are theocrats: no amount of empirical evidence will ever change their minds.</p>
<p>Bombing Iran will only cause its people to rally around the leadership. This is historically true of just about any bombing in the entire world. See also 9/11: if the Radical Towelheads thought it would make the US change course, they&#39;ve been proven sadly mistaken.</p>
<p>Bomb their [Iranian] &#39;nuke sites&#39; and they&#39;ll rebuild in record time but better and deeper.</p>
<p>The &#39;Mullahs&#39; aren&#39;t &#39;mad&#39;, they&#39;ve shown themselves shrewd and skillful players in diplomacy. To nuke attack Israel would be thoroughly suicidal. No collectivity would carry out such an attack, in the full knowledge certain death would follow it.</p>
<p>Elliott Abrams and Joshua Muravchik need mental health care, not a soapbox.</p>
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		<title>By: ...</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22296</link>
		<dc:creator>...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;someone needs to say &#039;if we bomb israel&#039; the people will turn against the ultra conservatives and welcome freedom for 2 states to live side by side....&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>someone needs to say &#39;if we bomb israel&#39; the people will turn against the ultra conservatives and welcome freedom for 2 states to live side by side&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22297</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bill Kristol was on CSPAN a few mornings ago. Expressing conviction and confidence, the usual damning abstract pejorative nouns sliding off his lips as if nobody ever had a second thought about 9/11, Iraq invasion, and now Iran.&lt;br /&gt;
Israel and the USA are in the foxhole together, and must jump forth against the Islamo-Fascist hoardes or get pushed into the sea. What is his power base? He&#039;s so glib, who possibly takes him seriously? &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I guess the same question can be asked of the big bankers, fed reserve, treasury foxes Obama is determined to keep guarding the hen house they&#039;ve destroyed. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This country is day by day turning into a corporate state run by an elite; such is being institutionalized ever increasingly, the masses having ever less power to change anything, ever less control of their own lives. It&#039;s frightening. Some day, long in the future, the people will rise up with pitchforks and go after them all. History indicates this. Then the politicians will allow themselves to be rolled by the populist&lt;br /&gt;
anger at last, as Roosevelt allowed himself to roll over after his Obamaesque New Deal came to nothing.  Nag your congress people every chance you get, and your Prez too--even if they&#039;d like to&lt;br /&gt;
get out of the squeeze, they can&#039;t without a groundswell of popular support.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Kristol was on CSPAN a few mornings ago. Expressing conviction and confidence, the usual damning abstract pejorative nouns sliding off his lips as if nobody ever had a second thought about 9/11, Iraq invasion, and now Iran.<br />
Israel and the USA are in the foxhole together, and must jump forth against the Islamo-Fascist hoardes or get pushed into the sea. What is his power base? He&#39;s so glib, who possibly takes him seriously? </p>
<p>I guess the same question can be asked of the big bankers, fed reserve, treasury foxes Obama is determined to keep guarding the hen house they&#39;ve destroyed. </p>
<p>This country is day by day turning into a corporate state run by an elite; such is being institutionalized ever increasingly, the masses having ever less power to change anything, ever less control of their own lives. It&#39;s frightening. Some day, long in the future, the people will rise up with pitchforks and go after them all. History indicates this. Then the politicians will allow themselves to be rolled by the populist<br />
anger at last, as Roosevelt allowed himself to roll over after his Obamaesque New Deal came to nothing.  Nag your congress people every chance you get, and your Prez too&#8211;even if they&#39;d like to<br />
get out of the squeeze, they can&#39;t without a groundswell of popular support.</p>
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		<title>By: Mooser</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22298</link>
		<dc:creator>Mooser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;Also, why are the neocons hanging around? What is their power base?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Obama not knowing how to tell a white guy to go fuck himself, that&#039;s their power base. And for a white guy in a General&#039;s uniform, Obama just falls over and pees himself. &quot;More drone attacks&quot; he quails, &quot;Yes, sir&quot;! &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of course, if Obama acts like anything but a spineless invertebrate, it&#039;ll mean the ascendancy of the Black Muslims and Panthers over white folks. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&quot;Also, why are the neocons hanging around? What is their power base?&quot;</i></p>
<p>Obama not knowing how to tell a white guy to go fuck himself, that&#39;s their power base. And for a white guy in a General&#39;s uniform, Obama just falls over and pees himself. &quot;More drone attacks&quot; he quails, &quot;Yes, sir&quot;! </p>
<p>Of course, if Obama acts like anything but a spineless invertebrate, it&#39;ll mean the ascendancy of the Black Muslims and Panthers over white folks. </p>
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		<title>By: doppler</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22299</link>
		<dc:creator>doppler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/28/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html#comment-22299</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We need to arrest these Neocons for subversion. Many of them began as members of the Communist Party, and morphed into Neocons post-Scoop Jackson.  We need to put the Neocon movement on the Attorney General&#039;s list of subversive organizations, and arrest those who have found their way into top secret government positions.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;d still like to know how convicted perjurer Scooter Libby&#039;s crowd in the Vice President&#039;s Office knew to request Cipro on the evening of September 11 [1], and why all of Manhattan was abuzz about where to find Cipro later that month, weeks before [2] the first Anthrax attack was launched, [by government insiders, we now know].  Why the knowledge that one should obtain Cipro in anticipation of an Anthrax attack leaked out from Cheney&#039;s office through the ranks of the cognoscenti, who later bragged about how early in the process they learned of the danger [3]. And why the initial Anthrax attack, when it came, was so vigorously blamed on Saddam Hussein by these same Neocons, complete with additional phony reports of chemical signatures, etc., completely made up for political purposes [4].  If we don&#039;t hold these subversive liars accountable for Anthrax and Iraq, what evil will they unleash next????&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[1] &quot;At least some White House personnel were given Cipro six weeks ago. White House officials won&#039;t discuss who might be receiving the anthrax-treating antibiotic now.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;On the night of the Sept. 11 attacks, the White House Medical Office dispensed Cipro to staff accompanying Vice President Dick Cheney as he was secreted off to the safety of Camp David, and told them it was &quot;a precaution,&quot; according to one person directly involved.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011023/aponline201158_000.htm&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[2] &quot;&#039;&#039;People are carrying survival packs to fine restaurants,&#039;&#039; said Patricia Wexler, a Manhattan dermatologist who has been prescribing antibiotics and sleeping pills for her jittery patients. &#039;&#039;Women are taking their little black Prada techno-nylon bags and slipping in gas masks for the couple, Cipro, a flashlight, a silicone gel tube -- you shmear the silicone on your skin so hopefully it doesn&#039;t absorb the spores as fast. It&#039;s truly scary. We worry about crop dusters over Midtown. It would be so easy to contaminate the reservoir.&#039;&#039; Maureen Dowd&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/26/opinion/liberties-from-botox-to-botulism.html&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[3] &quot;The attacks were not entirely unexpected. I had been told soon after Sept. 11 to secure Cipro, the antidote to anthrax. The tip had come in a roundabout way from a high government official, and I immediately acted on it. I was carrying Cipro way before most people had ever heard of it.&quot; [Richard Cohen]&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.slate.com/id/2186766/&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[4] &quot;&quot;I&#039;d say that part of [Ross&#039;] re-reporting ought to include a full explanation of exactly who was peddling the bentonite lie in the first place, and why they were doing it.&quot; Kevin Drum quoted from Washington Monthly by Glenn Greenwald.&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/03/journalism/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need to arrest these Neocons for subversion. Many of them began as members of the Communist Party, and morphed into Neocons post-Scoop Jackson.  We need to put the Neocon movement on the Attorney General&#39;s list of subversive organizations, and arrest those who have found their way into top secret government positions.  </p>
<p>I&#39;d still like to know how convicted perjurer Scooter Libby&#39;s crowd in the Vice President&#39;s Office knew to request Cipro on the evening of September 11 [1], and why all of Manhattan was abuzz about where to find Cipro later that month, weeks before [2] the first Anthrax attack was launched, [by government insiders, we now know].  Why the knowledge that one should obtain Cipro in anticipation of an Anthrax attack leaked out from Cheney&#39;s office through the ranks of the cognoscenti, who later bragged about how early in the process they learned of the danger [3]. And why the initial Anthrax attack, when it came, was so vigorously blamed on Saddam Hussein by these same Neocons, complete with additional phony reports of chemical signatures, etc., completely made up for political purposes [4].  If we don&#39;t hold these subversive liars accountable for Anthrax and Iraq, what evil will they unleash next????</p>
<p>[1] &quot;At least some White House personnel were given Cipro six weeks ago. White House officials won&#39;t discuss who might be receiving the anthrax-treating antibiotic now.</p>
<p>&quot;On the night of the Sept. 11 attacks, the White House Medical Office dispensed Cipro to staff accompanying Vice President Dick Cheney as he was secreted off to the safety of Camp David, and told them it was &quot;a precaution,&quot; according to one person directly involved.&quot;<br />
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011023/aponline201158_000.htm</p>
<p>&#8220;>link to washingtonpost.com</a></p>
<p>[2] &quot;&#39;&#39;People are carrying survival packs to fine restaurants,&#39;&#39; said Patricia Wexler, a Manhattan dermatologist who has been prescribing antibiotics and sleeping pills for her jittery patients. &#39;&#39;Women are taking their little black Prada techno-nylon bags and slipping in gas masks for the couple, Cipro, a flashlight, a silicone gel tube &#8212; you shmear the silicone on your skin so hopefully it doesn&#39;t absorb the spores as fast. It&#39;s truly scary. We worry about crop dusters over Midtown. It would be so easy to contaminate the reservoir.&#39;&#39; Maureen Dowd<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/26/opinion/liberties-from-botox-to-botulism.html</p>
<p>&#8220;>link to nytimes.com</a></p>
<p>[3] &quot;The attacks were not entirely unexpected. I had been told soon after Sept. 11 to secure Cipro, the antidote to anthrax. The tip had come in a roundabout way from a high government official, and I immediately acted on it. I was carrying Cipro way before most people had ever heard of it.&quot; [Richard Cohen]<br />
<a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2186766/</p>
<p>&#8220;>link to slate.com</a></p>
<p>[4] &quot;&quot;I&#39;d say that part of [Ross&#39;] re-reporting ought to include a full explanation of exactly who was peddling the bentonite lie in the first place, and why they were doing it.&quot; Kevin Drum quoted from Washington Monthly by Glenn Greenwald.<br />
<a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/03/journalism/<br">link to salon.com</a><br /> /></p>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22300</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;We need to put the Neocon movement on the Attorney General&#039;s list of subversive organizations, and arrest those who have found their way into top secret government positions.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What would be the charge? Being Neocons? I didn&#039;t realize political perspectives were illegal.  &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>We need to put the Neocon movement on the Attorney General&#39;s list of subversive organizations, and arrest those who have found their way into top secret government positions.</i></p>
<p>What would be the charge? Being Neocons? I didn&#39;t realize political perspectives were illegal.  </p>
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		<title>By: Colin Murray</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22301</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Sadjadpour says all the talk of exporting Islamic revolution has fostered Hizbullah and not much more.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I agree completely with Phil&#039;s choice of the word &#039;fostered&#039; to describe Iran&#039;s relations to Hezbollah. Some folks would have us all believe that Iran created and controls Hezbollah, but this is a lie. It was organized by Lebanese Shiites to resist Israeli occupation of their land after Israel&#039;s 1982 invasion and rape of Beirut. Hezbollah would not exist but for Israel; Iran has merely helped them (a lot) to be able to defend themselves. Of course they do not help Hezbollah out of the goodness of their hearts, but because it also serves one of their objectives: keeping the &#039;front lines&#039; away from their own borders.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Sadjadpour says all the talk of exporting Islamic revolution has fostered Hizbullah and not much more.</i></p>
<p>I agree completely with Phil&#39;s choice of the word &#39;fostered&#39; to describe Iran&#39;s relations to Hezbollah. Some folks would have us all believe that Iran created and controls Hezbollah, but this is a lie. It was organized by Lebanese Shiites to resist Israeli occupation of their land after Israel&#39;s 1982 invasion and rape of Beirut. Hezbollah would not exist but for Israel; Iran has merely helped them (a lot) to be able to defend themselves. Of course they do not help Hezbollah out of the goodness of their hearts, but because it also serves one of their objectives: keeping the &#39;front lines&#39; away from their own borders.</p>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22302</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/28/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html#comment-22302</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What would be the charge? Being Neocons? I didn&#039;t realize political perspectives were illegal. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
...was a response to doppler&#039;s first paragraph.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would be the charge? Being Neocons? I didn&#39;t realize political perspectives were illegal. </p>
<p>
&#8230;was a response to doppler&#39;s first paragraph.</p>
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		<title>By: Zainab al-Ashkar</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/groundhog-day-in-the-middle-east-elliott-abrams-says-if-we-bomb-iran-the-people-will-turn-against-the-ayatollahs-and-welco.html/comment-page-1#comment-22303</link>
		<dc:creator>Zainab al-Ashkar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;What the hell do these idiots ingest to make them spew bullshit like this?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If Iran is bombed it will mean a world nuclear war. All but a small percentage of humanity will be destroyed.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m beginning to think maybe these idiots want war, because it gives them purpose for living. Otherwise they&#039;re good for nothing more than fertilizer. Sad thing about it is, they have no purpose whether or not they start a global war.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the hell do these idiots ingest to make them spew bullshit like this?</p>
<p>If Iran is bombed it will mean a world nuclear war. All but a small percentage of humanity will be destroyed.</p>
<p>I&#39;m beginning to think maybe these idiots want war, because it gives them purpose for living. Otherwise they&#39;re good for nothing more than fertilizer. Sad thing about it is, they have no purpose whether or not they start a global war.</p>
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