Comments on: ‘Israel today is like the Old South’ (read the post to get the punchline) http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:08:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25947 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25947 <p>How do you change hearts and minds, by shelling them?</p> How do you change hearts and minds, by shelling them?

]]> By: Citizen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25948 Citizen Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25948 <p>How do you allow Americans to be responsible citizens by giving them only the Likud side of such an important issue? </p> How do you allow Americans to be responsible citizens by giving them only the Likud side of such an important issue?

]]> By: Kevin S. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25949 Kevin S. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25949 <p>It must be hard for liberal Jews who supported the Civil Rights movement in the US to hear this. I'd feel sorry for them if I didn't think so many of them were merely opportunists, using the inequalities of the segregated American South as a club to bash the WASP power structure. Until liberal Jews get as outraged today as they expected liberal goyim to be in the '60s, then it's hard not to see this as their own karma coming around to bite them on the tush. After all, they who live by collective guilt-tripping die by collective guilt-tripping...</p> It must be hard for liberal Jews who supported the Civil Rights movement in the US to hear this. I'd feel sorry for them if I didn't think so many of them were merely opportunists, using the inequalities of the segregated American South as a club to bash the WASP power structure. Until liberal Jews get as outraged today as they expected liberal goyim to be in the '60s, then it's hard not to see this as their own karma coming around to bite them on the tush. After all, they who live by collective guilt-tripping die by collective guilt-tripping…

]]> By: Harcourt Fenton http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25950 Harcourt Fenton Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25950 <p>Let's see: </p> <p>1. Israel grants refuge to Africans displaced by Islamic genocidal actions in Darfur - but the rest of the Islamic world does not.</p> <p>2. Israel permits people to practice any religion or no religion at all.</p> <p>3. Israel supports womens' rights and its society does not promote "honor killings" or require, subject to punishment by the state, a "modest" form of dress for its women.</p> <p>4. Israel doesn't have "don't ask, don't tell". Its homosexuals serve openly in the Army and are suject to the death penalty (as in Iran) for being gay.</p> <p>5. Israel does not seek, as a policy matter, to kill Arabs or prevent the practice of Islam; Hamas seeks the murder of Jews, restricts the practice of religions other than Islam and supports murder of those converting from Islam to another religion.</p> <p>Kevin's post above is completely wrong-headed. The JEWS are the Blacks in any realist view of the scenario. The Jews are a minority surrounded by a billion people hostile to their religion and ethnicity. In Muslim countries, Jews are legally classified as Dhimmis - second class citizens whose testimony in court is not worth as much as a practitioner of Islam. Muslims are the ones who are committing terrorizing mass murders of civilians - just like the Klan tried to do in the South. The "power structure" in the MidEast is held by monarchs or tyrants (such as the Saudi kings, the Gulf emirs, Assad, etc.) who keep their populace down and have strongly illiberal philosophies. </p> <p>So, anyone who supported the Civil Rights movement can wholeheartedly support the Jews in Israel who are existentially threatened by the racism and murderous intent of Palestinian leaders, Syria, Iran and others.</p> <p>Anti-Zionism is absolutely anti-Semitism. No ones keeping you from being anti-Zionist, but don't pretend, for a minute, that you are not a racist if you think that Jews (along with Kurds and Tibetans) are the only people in the world (with a separate language, culture and historical homeland) that are not entitled to their own nationhood. </p> Let's see:

1. Israel grants refuge to Africans displaced by Islamic genocidal actions in Darfur – but the rest of the Islamic world does not.

2. Israel permits people to practice any religion or no religion at all.

3. Israel supports womens' rights and its society does not promote "honor killings" or require, subject to punishment by the state, a "modest" form of dress for its women.

4. Israel doesn't have "don't ask, don't tell". Its homosexuals serve openly in the Army and are suject to the death penalty (as in Iran) for being gay.

5. Israel does not seek, as a policy matter, to kill Arabs or prevent the practice of Islam; Hamas seeks the murder of Jews, restricts the practice of religions other than Islam and supports murder of those converting from Islam to another religion.

Kevin's post above is completely wrong-headed. The JEWS are the Blacks in any realist view of the scenario. The Jews are a minority surrounded by a billion people hostile to their religion and ethnicity. In Muslim countries, Jews are legally classified as Dhimmis – second class citizens whose testimony in court is not worth as much as a practitioner of Islam. Muslims are the ones who are committing terrorizing mass murders of civilians – just like the Klan tried to do in the South. The "power structure" in the MidEast is held by monarchs or tyrants (such as the Saudi kings, the Gulf emirs, Assad, etc.) who keep their populace down and have strongly illiberal philosophies.

So, anyone who supported the Civil Rights movement can wholeheartedly support the Jews in Israel who are existentially threatened by the racism and murderous intent of Palestinian leaders, Syria, Iran and others.

Anti-Zionism is absolutely anti-Semitism. No ones keeping you from being anti-Zionist, but don't pretend, for a minute, that you are not a racist if you think that Jews (along with Kurds and Tibetans) are the only people in the world (with a separate language, culture and historical homeland) that are not entitled to their own nationhood.

]]> By: Kevin S. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25951 Kevin S. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25951 <p>Fenton's arguments no longer have any traction for an increasing number of Americans and Jews. They know hypocrisy when they smell it And, irony of ironies, they were taught this trick by Jewish leftists. If the Jewish community wants to know who is responsible for turning more and more people into critics of Zionism and Israeli brutality, they can go look in the mirror. You can't teach us all to sympathize with Anne Frank and Emmett Till and then expect us to to turn all of that training off when Jews act like monsters. Some insincere and chauvinistic Jews might be able to handle that kind hypocrisy, but the goyim just will not.</p> Fenton's arguments no longer have any traction for an increasing number of Americans and Jews. They know hypocrisy when they smell it And, irony of ironies, they were taught this trick by Jewish leftists. If the Jewish community wants to know who is responsible for turning more and more people into critics of Zionism and Israeli brutality, they can go look in the mirror. You can't teach us all to sympathize with Anne Frank and Emmett Till and then expect us to to turn all of that training off when Jews act like monsters. Some insincere and chauvinistic Jews might be able to handle that kind hypocrisy, but the goyim just will not.

]]> By: doug http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25952 doug Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25952 <p><i>Anti-Zionism is absolutely anti-Semitism.</i></p> <p>So one is anti-Semitic if one believes states should have no State Religion? That would expand anti-Semitisim into meaninglessness. Not a good idea for something that can be quite virulent.<br /> </p> Anti-Zionism is absolutely anti-Semitism.

So one is anti-Semitic if one believes states should have no State Religion? That would expand anti-Semitisim into meaninglessness. Not a good idea for something that can be quite virulent.

]]> By: Colin Murray http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25953 Colin Murray Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25953 <p><i>How do you change hearts and minds, by shelling them?</i></p> <p>It took military defeat and occupation, followed by 144 years to change hearts and minds in the South to what they are today. Are Israelis any less racist than Southern whites of 1865?</p> How do you change hearts and minds, by shelling them?

It took military defeat and occupation, followed by 144 years to change hearts and minds in the South to what they are today. Are Israelis any less racist than Southern whites of 1865?

]]> By: Rowan http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25954 Rowan Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25954 <p>I'd go a little further than Gleen Greenwald does, when he says <i>the more obvious it becomes what is really driving these scandals, the more difficult it will be to maintain this suffocating control over American debates and American policy</i>. I would say that the spell has been broken (and I use that metaphor deliberately). </p> <p>That's why I said, I hope you remember what happened to Britain's empire after 1948. And I hope you can see the next axis that Israel will form, the next protector it will choose. My bet is China, and oddly enough, one reason for not wanting Freeman around might be that Israel feared he could have too many channels to China of his own, or be part of some network that did. They will need to make sure that the US has <b>no</b> connections of its own to China that they can't choke off at will.</p> I'd go a little further than Gleen Greenwald does, when he says the more obvious it becomes what is really driving these scandals, the more difficult it will be to maintain this suffocating control over American debates and American policy. I would say that the spell has been broken (and I use that metaphor deliberately).

That's why I said, I hope you remember what happened to Britain's empire after 1948. And I hope you can see the next axis that Israel will form, the next protector it will choose. My bet is China, and oddly enough, one reason for not wanting Freeman around might be that Israel feared he could have too many channels to China of his own, or be part of some network that did. They will need to make sure that the US has no connections of its own to China that they can't choke off at will.

]]> By: Colin Murray http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25955 Colin Murray Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25955 <p><i>Anti-Zionism is absolutely anti-Semitism.</i></p> <p>This is a ridiculous statement wallowing in contemptible self-pity and moral cowardice. </p> <p><i>No ones keeping you from being anti-Zionist, but don't pretend, for a minute, that you are not a racist if you think that Jews (along with Kurds and Tibetans) are the only people in the world (with a separate language, culture and historical homeland) that are not entitled to their own nationhood.</i></p> <p>I don't have a problem with your nationhood. I have a problem with ethnic cleansing, colonization, and terrorism being carried out by Israel and blamed on my innocent people because we are being fleeced to pay for it financially and politically. American Zionists selling out my country are traitors. If there were an 'American Lobby' in Israel selling it out you would call them the same. </p> Anti-Zionism is absolutely anti-Semitism.

This is a ridiculous statement wallowing in contemptible self-pity and moral cowardice.

No ones keeping you from being anti-Zionist, but don't pretend, for a minute, that you are not a racist if you think that Jews (along with Kurds and Tibetans) are the only people in the world (with a separate language, culture and historical homeland) that are not entitled to their own nationhood.

I don't have a problem with your nationhood. I have a problem with ethnic cleansing, colonization, and terrorism being carried out by Israel and blamed on my innocent people because we are being fleeced to pay for it financially and politically. American Zionists selling out my country are traitors. If there were an 'American Lobby' in Israel selling it out you would call them the same.

]]> By: Jim http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html/comment-page-1#comment-25956 Jim Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/12/israel-today-is-like-the-old-south-read-the-post-to-get-the-punchline.html#comment-25956 <p>Harcourt Fenton</p> <p>1. In fact, Israel kicks out Darfur refugees: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/894800.html<br /> Thousands are in Egypt alone. Maybe only 500 are in Israel<br /> 2. How do you marry if you are an atheist? And why is there an apartheid law preventing Palestinian-Israeli marriages?<br /> 3. Tell that to the Haredim beating up 'immodestly' dressed women.<br /> 4. Does it have an don't-ask-don't-tell about more serious aspects of the army? such as nuclear weapons?<br /> 5. The figures from Gaza tell a different story (1300+ dead Palestinians, including 400+ kids... and 13 Israelis)</p> Harcourt Fenton

1. In fact, Israel kicks out Darfur refugees: link to haaretz.com
/>
Thousands are in Egypt alone. Maybe only 500 are in Israel
2. How do you marry if you are an atheist? And why is there an apartheid law preventing Palestinian-Israeli marriages?
3. Tell that to the Haredim beating up 'immodestly' dressed women.
4. Does it have an don't-ask-don't-tell about more serious aspects of the army? such as nuclear weapons?
5. The figures from Gaza tell a different story (1300+ dead Palestinians, including 400+ kids… and 13 Israelis)

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