My friend Peter Voskamp sent me this thought experiment:
I was reading something today about the Russian incursion into Georgia last August and it got me to thinking: remember the almost universal outrage aimed at those murderous Russians,
blamed for their disproportionate reaction in Georgia– their
over-the-top use of force…. Why, the Americans should've replied
militarily…
blamed for their disproportionate reaction in Georgia– their
over-the-top use of force…. Why, the Americans should've replied
militarily…
Yes, the Russians did these things. But Georgia shelled– SHELLED with heavy artillery! — the capital of South Ossetia, killing heaven knows how many. And the Russians moved in, and were excoriated for their response.
Now, compare that with Gaza, where overgrown bottle rockets
are shot over the border like propelled Molotov cocktails. Lucky to
hit or kill anyone (and this is not to say that it should absolutely not
continue…..), but those Palestinians, they had it coming. They had to be taught a lesson. No comparison, you see; fraught with complexities….
Whaddayamean, "yes, the Russians did those things"? What things? Are you saying, "yes, they used disproportionate force"? Sources, please, and let's see how partisan they all are.
Phil, I don't think this is a good analogy.
The Georgia coverage was pure neo-con propaganda. Georgia was supposed to be a valiant little outpost of freedom, etc. etc.
Randy Scheunemann, one of McCain's top foreign policy advisors, had been paid $800,000 by Georgia in his role as a registered foreign agent. One of his goals was to get Georgia admitted into NATO.
The silly president of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili, had close ties to Israeli military contractors and the neo-con establishment in Washington. He seemed to imagine that the US would eagerly adopt Georgia as a client state, something like a Baltic Israel. (As if we needed another millstone around our necks.) He foolishly pushed ahead in his ambitions in Ossetia, apparently aided by his Israeli and US military "advisors."
The media obligingly played along, presenting Georgia as an innocent victim of facist Russian aggression. The US public didn't bite, though. We're a bit tired of "spreading freedom," I guess.
So Georgia was left to a very predictable (and arguably well-deserved) thrashing by the Russians, and the whole affair was swept under the rug. Even Obama bought into the propaganda story during the debates. You have to go to the foreign press, the Christian Science Monitor, or the *American Conservative* to get the whole story.
I think even the execrable NY Times finally reported the whole story…after the election.
Absolutely no comparison. None. Zero. Zip. In the middle of the night, without warning, the Georgians ran tanks through South Ossetia (a Russian satellite) ramming into houses, mowing over anyone in the streets, and threw molotov cocktails and grenades into the bedrooms of sleeping people; they mounted an air war. 2,000 people died. The Israelis had trained the Georgian army right up until a few weeks before this happened for seven years. They pulled up stakes and left in mid-July 2008. Never in a million years did Saakashvili think that Putin would leave the Olympics and beetle-ass it to North Ossetia, bringing the full force of the Russian Army with him. Saakashvili fully expected Bush to back him up and start another world war, and foolishly bought what the Israelis told him about Bush needing Georgia to hit Iran, who of course were there to help provoke it.
On the other hand, only a handful of Israelis died from Palestinian rockets over the past few years until the Gaza War started. Something like 10 people?
The South Ossetians and Abkhazians voted 17 years ago to stay with Russia after the breakup of the USSR. They remember the cruelty of the most famous Georgian, Stailn, who was never kind to people outside his tribe in the region. He banished them to Central Asia during the 2nd world war. The enmities in the region are centuries old.
The Gazans did not attack Israel (the Israelis broke the truce.) Most of all not with tanks and artillery in the middle of the night, killing thousands and causing 10,000 to flee.
There is no comparison. The only thing this is a thought experiment in is delusion. And grossly deceptive justification for what Israel did. Put a sock on it.
david f has the scoop.. usa propaganda bullshit on it was pretty similar but other then that…
He said nothing.
What do you think OCCURRED in Georgia? Do you think that the Russians did not overwhelm the country?
Do they still occupy?
A little obnoxious kid threw a few punches at the big bully and was smashed. Russia has recognised
Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states, Georgia calls those regions Russian-occupied territories.
Russia's stature around its borders has grown, the US & Israeli's has lessened. Due to the USA regime's
blatant one-sided view during the short war, Russia view the USA MSM as hostile to Russia. Israel
cut off its military supplies and personnel to Georgia shortly before the war started, and followed up by sending agents to Russia to make clear Israel does not stand with Georgia as it feared growing support to Israel's enemies in the Middle East if Russia took the view Israel was hostile to Russian interests. US Media eventually took a more balanced view of the Russian interests in the region.
MRW, I understood the thought experiment–double standards–exactly the way you elaborated.
LeaNder gets the idea: I was simply pointing out the double standard. David F.– I was essentially trying to make your point: when the Russians (supposedly, Rowan), used disproportionate force, it was decried around the world as the height of evil; however, when similar force was used (against a much less well-armed "enemy") in Gaza, the situation was presented as much more complex; the world agonized over how to react to what was clearly a needlessly bloody response.
"Now, compare that with Gaza, where overgrown bottle rockets are shot over the border like propelled Molotov cocktails. Lucky to hit or kill anyone"
Then why are the Israelis getting so excited? Every once in a while someone gets killed, but so what. People can get killed driving a car. The Israelis should thank the Palestinians for firng missiles at them. It keeps the Israelis on their toes.
Of course Israel started all the violence by stopping a Hamas tunnel going into Israel. Hamas just wanted to go into Israel and take back future friends.
Naughty Arabs, eh, Julian?
The American Press painted the Russians as totally wrong for using disproportionate force in Georgia. The American MSM did actually the contrary with Israel's use of such force in Gaza. Could things be more crystal clear for any American paying attention, especially when you compare the American-Israeli built-up Georgian force with HAMAS's hand-made rockets? Jeez.
Thanks, Peter V. I think I get it now!