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	<title>Comments on: Umm al-Fahm violence is a sign of things to come in Lieberman&#8217;s Israel</title>
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	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 09:59:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23075</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23075</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A must read on &lt;a href=&quot;http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2009/03/dr-adam-silverman-on-usisrael-relations.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sic Semper Tyrannis.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A must read on <a href="http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2009/03/dr-adam-silverman-on-usisrael-relations.html" rel="nofollow">Sic Semper Tyrannis.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Citizen</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23076</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23076</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And Witty thinks the rule of law with its due process should settle all issues of title to land... Even NAZI Germany had a judiciary. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Witty thinks the rule of law with its due process should settle all issues of title to land&#8230; Even NAZI Germany had a judiciary. </p>
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		<title>By: Rowan</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23077</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23077</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;yeah, I have blogged this under the heading &quot;The Fascist Beast Is On The March Again&quot;. I have no compunction in using the term &#039;fascist&#039; within the context of Jewish politics whatever, since I have never confused fascism, as a political ideology, with &#039;anti-Semitism&#039;. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, I have blogged this under the heading &quot;The Fascist Beast Is On The March Again&quot;. I have no compunction in using the term &#39;fascist&#39; within the context of Jewish politics whatever, since I have never confused fascism, as a political ideology, with &#39;anti-Semitism&#39;. </p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23078</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23078</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Witty will extol the virtues of State policy when it&#039;s the JEWISH State.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He is not a morally serious person. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s just like Fenton and all the other ZioPuke blaming the stone throwers for getting shot threw the head by IDF goons.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Let&#039;s draw upon a more familiar scenario:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The blacks who got hosed during the 60s were asking for it. They were causing trouble and disobeying State policy. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This is the same mentality of Zionists. Anything for their religion - State policy; Zionism.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;They won&#039;t question the validity of State policy. They won&#039;t question whether policy is the same as justice (never has been and never will be).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So following the disgraceful example by Witty and other cowards, we should never question State policy. We should never throw stones. Policy = Religion. To defy policy is heresy and you will be punished by death if necessary.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Witty will extol the virtues of State policy when it&#39;s the JEWISH State.</p>
<p>He is not a morally serious person. </p>
<p>It&#39;s just like Fenton and all the other ZioPuke blaming the stone throwers for getting shot threw the head by IDF goons.</p>
<p>Let&#39;s draw upon a more familiar scenario:</p>
<p>The blacks who got hosed during the 60s were asking for it. They were causing trouble and disobeying State policy. </p>
<p>This is the same mentality of Zionists. Anything for their religion &#8211; State policy; Zionism.</p>
<p>They won&#39;t question the validity of State policy. They won&#39;t question whether policy is the same as justice (never has been and never will be).</p>
<p>So following the disgraceful example by Witty and other cowards, we should never question State policy. We should never throw stones. Policy = Religion. To defy policy is heresy and you will be punished by death if necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: tree</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23079</link>
		<dc:creator>tree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23079</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Relevant  historical tidbit concerning stone-throwing and Apartheid in South Africa:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;At both the Sharpeville Massacre in 1960 and the Soweto Uprising, there were credible reports of stone-throwing by the protesters, although the protests were intended to be peaceful ones. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Relevant  historical tidbit concerning stone-throwing and Apartheid in South Africa:</p>
<p>At both the Sharpeville Massacre in 1960 and the Soweto Uprising, there were credible reports of stone-throwing by the protesters, although the protests were intended to be peaceful ones. </p>
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		<title>By: Harry Fenton</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23080</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Fenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23080</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t support these protesters - yet I note that Phil Weiss supports the right of foreigners to protest in mililtary zones under the aegis of ISM, but denies the right of Settlers to march in Umm al-Fahm.  What&#039;s the difference?  1. The protesters that are considered fascists are the Jewish ones, not the ones from Hamas or ISM.  2. The protests were by Israeli citizens within the bounds of the 1967 green lines and weren&#039;t in military zones.  Given that Hamas doesn&#039;t want Jews period and that these marchers don&#039;t want people disloyal to the State, I&#039;d give them both the fascist tag for the point of this posting. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As to L(S)D&#039;s post - the African-Americans who were hosed in the 60&#039;s were citizens of the United States.  They were subject to hosing because, and only because, they were black, not because they were throwing rocks at police officer&#039;s heads or blocking US border police from preventing illegal immigration from Mexico because they believed that the Mexicans should own Texas, California, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The protesters in the Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of Israel, are often, like Corrie and Tristan, not in any way connected to the region other than through the auspices of ISM (which Tristan became intrigued with after tree-sitting and trespassing to block an athletic stadium got boring).  Sometimes they throw rocks, sometimes they don&#039;t.  But they are not authorized in the areas they are harrassing troops, nor are citizens of Israel authorized to harrass troops in such areas.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;By drawing a parallel between the African-American struggle in Selma to the situation in Gaza, you are defaming the actions of  African-Americans who were peacefully, without rocks, demonstrating to have their Constitutionally protected rights granted to them.  There is no Gazan or West Bank Palestinian right to live in the State of Israel - there is no right to eject Jews from Israel - there is no right to bomb Israeli citiies - there is no right to murder Israeli citizens in discos and pizza parlors - there is no right to terrorize Israelis - there is no right to call Jews &quot;brothers of apes and pigs&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Hamasites and their Philiistine supporters - who coincidentally are fond of wearing hoods - are the Klan here, not the Israelis.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t support these protesters &#8211; yet I note that Phil Weiss supports the right of foreigners to protest in mililtary zones under the aegis of ISM, but denies the right of Settlers to march in Umm al-Fahm.  What&#39;s the difference?  1. The protesters that are considered fascists are the Jewish ones, not the ones from Hamas or ISM.  2. The protests were by Israeli citizens within the bounds of the 1967 green lines and weren&#39;t in military zones.  Given that Hamas doesn&#39;t want Jews period and that these marchers don&#39;t want people disloyal to the State, I&#39;d give them both the fascist tag for the point of this posting. </p>
<p>As to L(S)D&#39;s post &#8211; the African-Americans who were hosed in the 60&#39;s were citizens of the United States.  They were subject to hosing because, and only because, they were black, not because they were throwing rocks at police officer&#39;s heads or blocking US border police from preventing illegal immigration from Mexico because they believed that the Mexicans should own Texas, California, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico.</p>
<p>The protesters in the Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of Israel, are often, like Corrie and Tristan, not in any way connected to the region other than through the auspices of ISM (which Tristan became intrigued with after tree-sitting and trespassing to block an athletic stadium got boring).  Sometimes they throw rocks, sometimes they don&#39;t.  But they are not authorized in the areas they are harrassing troops, nor are citizens of Israel authorized to harrass troops in such areas.  </p>
<p>By drawing a parallel between the African-American struggle in Selma to the situation in Gaza, you are defaming the actions of  African-Americans who were peacefully, without rocks, demonstrating to have their Constitutionally protected rights granted to them.  There is no Gazan or West Bank Palestinian right to live in the State of Israel &#8211; there is no right to eject Jews from Israel &#8211; there is no right to bomb Israeli citiies &#8211; there is no right to murder Israeli citizens in discos and pizza parlors &#8211; there is no right to terrorize Israelis &#8211; there is no right to call Jews &quot;brothers of apes and pigs&quot;.</p>
<p>The Hamasites and their Philiistine supporters &#8211; who coincidentally are fond of wearing hoods &#8211; are the Klan here, not the Israelis.</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23081</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23081</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Once again, you ignore the point of my analogy, you stupid bastard.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;POLICY vs. JUSTICE.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Who says the State of Israel has any right to be in the OT? Israel itself?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You write your own rules and expect people to follow it when it is destroying their lives.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Why were the IDF in that village? Why is Israel continuing to colonize the W. Bank?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So you conveniently begin the criticism AFTER Palestinians react.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;They are always the reaction to Israeli/Zionist injustice.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, you ignore the point of my analogy, you stupid bastard.</p>
<p>POLICY vs. JUSTICE.</p>
<p>Who says the State of Israel has any right to be in the OT? Israel itself?</p>
<p>You write your own rules and expect people to follow it when it is destroying their lives.</p>
<p>Why were the IDF in that village? Why is Israel continuing to colonize the W. Bank?</p>
<p>So you conveniently begin the criticism AFTER Palestinians react.</p>
<p>They are always the reaction to Israeli/Zionist injustice.</p>
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		<title>By: tommy</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23082</link>
		<dc:creator>tommy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23082</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Umm al-Fahm is a Twenty-first Century Skokie, Il. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm al-Fahm is a Twenty-first Century Skokie, Il. </p>
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		<title>By: rykart</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23083</link>
		<dc:creator>rykart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23083</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;As to L(S)D&#039;s post - the African-Americans who were hosed in the 60&#039;s were citizens of the United States. They were subject to hosing because, and only because, they were black, not because they were throwing rocks at police officer&#039;s heads or blocking US border police from preventing illegal immigration from Mexico because they believed that the Mexicans should own Texas, California, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico.&quot;  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;More signature fenton rubbish. The rhetoric concerning black activists as terrorists and a security threat were identical to the Nazi vomit spewed by the israelis about Arabs both within and outside the green line. Blacks rioted..burned down entire city blocks during the civil rights struggle. What the hell are you talking about? Absurd!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Your history is abysmal. &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;As to L(S)D&#39;s post &#8211; the African-Americans who were hosed in the 60&#39;s were citizens of the United States. They were subject to hosing because, and only because, they were black, not because they were throwing rocks at police officer&#39;s heads or blocking US border police from preventing illegal immigration from Mexico because they believed that the Mexicans should own Texas, California, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico.&quot;  </p>
<p>More signature fenton rubbish. The rhetoric concerning black activists as terrorists and a security threat were identical to the Nazi vomit spewed by the israelis about Arabs both within and outside the green line. Blacks rioted..burned down entire city blocks during the civil rights struggle. What the hell are you talking about? Absurd!</p>
<p>Your history is abysmal. </p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-23084</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/24/umm-alfahm-violence-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-liebermans-israel.html#comment-23084</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;The protesters in the Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of Israel, are often, like Corrie and Tristan, not in any way connected to the region other than through the auspices of ISM &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It of course would be much more easy to deal with this &quot;mob&quot; if no external observers were present? A logic the IDF understands well. Gaza.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Concerning expertise on or definition of facism my favorite is: &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Griffin&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Roger Griffin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Griffin&#039;s theory of fascism suggests that a heuristically useful ideal type of its definitional core is that it is a &lt;b&gt;palingenetic&lt;/b&gt; and populist form of ultranationalism. In other words it seeks, by directly mobilizing popular energies or working through an elite, to eventually conquer cultural hegemony for new values, to bring about the total rebirth of the nation from its present decadence, whether the nation is conceived as a historically formed nation-state or a racially determined &#039;ethnos&#039;. Conceived in these terms, fascism is an ideology that has assumed a large number of specific national permutations and several distinct organizational forms. Moreover, it is a political project that continues to evolve to this day throughout the Europeanized world, though it remains highly marginalized compared with the central place it occupied in inter-war Europe.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palingenesis&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Palingenesis - Politics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Although Josephus used the term of the national restoration of the Jews, the doctrines which are used to comprise the political ideology of fascism often move to describe it as a &quot;palingenetic ideology&quot;, primarily as a result of the notion that fascism itself is the &lt;b&gt;rebirth of a state and/or empire in the image of that which came before it - thus, the ancestral political underpinnings.&lt;/b&gt; Specifically academic political theorist Roger Griffin refers to fascism as &quot;palingenetic ultranationalism&quot;. The best examples of this can be found with both Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany - Italy looking to establish a palingenetic line between the 20th century regime under Benito Mussolini as being the second incarnation of the Roman Empire, while Adolf Hitler&#039;s regime was seen as being the third palingenetic incarnation - beginning first with the Holy Roman Empire (&quot;First Reich&quot;) then with Bismarck&#039;s German Empire (&quot;Second Reich&quot;) and then resulting in Nazi Germany (&quot;Third Reich&quot;).&lt;/blockquote&gt;


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The protesters in the Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of Israel, are often, like Corrie and Tristan, not in any way connected to the region other than through the auspices of ISM </i></p>
<p>It of course would be much more easy to deal with this &quot;mob&quot; if no external observers were present? A logic the IDF understands well. Gaza.</p>
<p>Concerning expertise on or definition of facism my favorite is: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Griffin" rel="nofollow">Roger Griffin</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Griffin&#39;s theory of fascism suggests that a heuristically useful ideal type of its definitional core is that it is a <b>palingenetic</b> and populist form of ultranationalism. In other words it seeks, by directly mobilizing popular energies or working through an elite, to eventually conquer cultural hegemony for new values, to bring about the total rebirth of the nation from its present decadence, whether the nation is conceived as a historically formed nation-state or a racially determined &#39;ethnos&#39;. Conceived in these terms, fascism is an ideology that has assumed a large number of specific national permutations and several distinct organizational forms. Moreover, it is a political project that continues to evolve to this day throughout the Europeanized world, though it remains highly marginalized compared with the central place it occupied in inter-war Europe.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palingenesis" rel="nofollow">Palingenesis &#8211; Politics</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Although Josephus used the term of the national restoration of the Jews, the doctrines which are used to comprise the political ideology of fascism often move to describe it as a &quot;palingenetic ideology&quot;, primarily as a result of the notion that fascism itself is the <b>rebirth of a state and/or empire in the image of that which came before it &#8211; thus, the ancestral political underpinnings.</b> Specifically academic political theorist Roger Griffin refers to fascism as &quot;palingenetic ultranationalism&quot;. The best examples of this can be found with both Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany &#8211; Italy looking to establish a palingenetic line between the 20th century regime under Benito Mussolini as being the second incarnation of the Roman Empire, while Adolf Hitler&#39;s regime was seen as being the third palingenetic incarnation &#8211; beginning first with the Holy Roman Empire (&quot;First Reich&quot;) then with Bismarck&#39;s German Empire (&quot;Second Reich&quot;) and then resulting in Nazi Germany (&quot;Third Reich&quot;).</p></blockquote>
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