Comments on: Was Jeffrey Goldberg ‘idealistic’ in moving to Israel and serving in its army? http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 09:59:01 +0000 hourly 1 By: Grumpy Old Man http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27138 Grumpy Old Man Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27138 <p>Isn't the concept that one can't live an authentically Jewish life (whatever that may mean) in the Diaspora? Alas, that may mean that no one has lived such a life since the year 70!</p> <p>It's a bizarre rule for sure that one can serve in a foreign army or vote in a foreign election and remain a citizen.</p> <p>Question: If he had served in the Syrian army, would that be "idealistic"?</p> Isn't the concept that one can't live an authentically Jewish life (whatever that may mean) in the Diaspora? Alas, that may mean that no one has lived such a life since the year 70!

It's a bizarre rule for sure that one can serve in a foreign army or vote in a foreign election and remain a citizen.

Question: If he had served in the Syrian army, would that be "idealistic"?

]]> By: Rowan http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27139 Rowan Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27139 <p>Phil, Steve Walt calls his personal blog:<br /> http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/<br /> so that people can accidentally-on-purpose confuse it with:<br /> http://www.foreignpolicy.com/<br /> you gotta stop these games, fellas, botha ya, they're dishonest. </p> Phil, Steve Walt calls his personal blog:
link to walt.foreignpolicy.com
/>
so that people can accidentally-on-purpose confuse it with:
link to foreignpolicy.com
/>
you gotta stop these games, fellas, botha ya, they're dishonest.

]]> By: Dan Kelly http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27140 Dan Kelly Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27140 <p>Steve Walt has a more lighthearted piece on his blog now entitled "Where Have All the Political Songs Gone?" (with apologies to Pete Seeger). I thought it was interesting.</p> Steve Walt has a more lighthearted piece on his blog now entitled "Where Have All the Political Songs Gone?" (with apologies to Pete Seeger). I thought it was interesting.

]]> By: otto http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27141 otto Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27141 <p>Colonialism has often been mixed up with idealism. This is just one instance. </p> Colonialism has often been mixed up with idealism. This is just one instance.

]]> By: Ed http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27142 Ed Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27142 <p>"Goldberg [allegedly] served in a notorious prison where Palestinians were tortured.</p> <p>"The Zionist ideal is based on the claim that the west is unsafe for Jews and that Israel is the homeland of the Jews. But these aren't American ideals. We believe that minorities are not discriminated against, and should not be…Was Jeffrey Goldberg 'idealistic' in moving to Israel and serving in its army?”<br /> ---<br /> From an American perspective, how idealistic is it to serve an institutionally racist, violent, murderous and expansionist caste-system state? On the other hand, from a Jewish-supremacist perspective, such service might indeed be idealistic.</p> <p>We are starting to get to the crux of the differences between traditionally American and Western, Christian-based values, and Jewish supremacist values. Despite the rhetorical propaganda emitted by the "Judeo-Christian" formulation merchants, the two are incompatible, and indeed diametrically opposed.</p> <p>Per Goldberg's and Heilbrunn's definition of idealism according to their interpretation of the Jewish value system, serving Israel may have indeed been idealistic. But the problem is that Goldberg didn't stay in Israel, and instead returned to America to spread the "good word" of Jewish Zionist "idealism" and “values” across the country via Neconservatism and Neoliberalism. </p> <p>Jewish supremacists like Goldberg and Rahm Emanuel should move to Israel and stay there. </p> "Goldberg [allegedly] served in a notorious prison where Palestinians were tortured.

"The Zionist ideal is based on the claim that the west is unsafe for Jews and that Israel is the homeland of the Jews. But these aren't American ideals. We believe that minorities are not discriminated against, and should not be…Was Jeffrey Goldberg 'idealistic' in moving to Israel and serving in its army?”
—
From an American perspective, how idealistic is it to serve an institutionally racist, violent, murderous and expansionist caste-system state? On the other hand, from a Jewish-supremacist perspective, such service might indeed be idealistic.

We are starting to get to the crux of the differences between traditionally American and Western, Christian-based values, and Jewish supremacist values. Despite the rhetorical propaganda emitted by the "Judeo-Christian" formulation merchants, the two are incompatible, and indeed diametrically opposed.

Per Goldberg's and Heilbrunn's definition of idealism according to their interpretation of the Jewish value system, serving Israel may have indeed been idealistic. But the problem is that Goldberg didn't stay in Israel, and instead returned to America to spread the "good word" of Jewish Zionist "idealism" and “values” across the country via Neconservatism and Neoliberalism.

Jewish supremacists like Goldberg and Rahm Emanuel should move to Israel and stay there.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27143 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27143 <p>Walt was in error in his flippant mildly contemptuous generalization.</p> <p>I expect that Walt similarly to you and I, did NOT serve in the US military. Your brother was subject to the draft, and not eligible for student deferments. I assume that he didn't serve either. I was on the list but they didn't call up people in 1973. Walt is the same age as you, and you weren't subject.</p> <p>Sympathy to the level of commitment in one's youth is a GOOD THING. Its action, rather than talk.</p> <p>Zionism in 1947/8/9 was survival for European and then Sephardic Jews. To call it colonialism is a lie.</p> <p>Zionism in 2009 is to support the right of a populated, developed, independant internationally authorized Israel, remain so.</p> <p>Its a good thing. The best thing is to urge reform when it is at all possible, NOT revolution.</p> <p>Tens, hundreds of thousands of people die in revolutions.</p> Walt was in error in his flippant mildly contemptuous generalization.

I expect that Walt similarly to you and I, did NOT serve in the US military. Your brother was subject to the draft, and not eligible for student deferments. I assume that he didn't serve either. I was on the list but they didn't call up people in 1973. Walt is the same age as you, and you weren't subject.

Sympathy to the level of commitment in one's youth is a GOOD THING. Its action, rather than talk.

Zionism in 1947/8/9 was survival for European and then Sephardic Jews. To call it colonialism is a lie.

Zionism in 2009 is to support the right of a populated, developed, independant internationally authorized Israel, remain so.

Its a good thing. The best thing is to urge reform when it is at all possible, NOT revolution.

Tens, hundreds of thousands of people die in revolutions.

]]> By: Ed http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27144 Ed Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27144 <p>The reason Rowan is so petty and anal about insignificant issues is because he’s a Leftist-Internationalist posing as a Muslim who keeps a copy of the Communist Manifest stored in unmentionable places for quick and easy access.</p> The reason Rowan is so petty and anal about insignificant issues is because he’s a Leftist-Internationalist posing as a Muslim who keeps a copy of the Communist Manifest stored in unmentionable places for quick and easy access.

]]> By: otto http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27145 otto Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27145 <p>Zionism has always been colonialism, from start to finish - killing and ethnically cleansing the natives to privilege the settlers, backed by London, Paris, or Washington. </p> <p>And South Africa was internationally authorised, until it wasn't any more, and the same will sooner or later happen to Israel. </p> Zionism has always been colonialism, from start to finish – killing and ethnically cleansing the natives to privilege the settlers, backed by London, Paris, or Washington.

And South Africa was internationally authorised, until it wasn't any more, and the same will sooner or later happen to Israel.

]]> By: otto http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27146 otto Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27146 <p>Andrew Sullivan on Chas Freeman -- looks like he is following up on his earlier thoughts on Israel and neoconservatism, despite earlier backpeddling. </p> <p>http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/03/a-freeman-time.html#more<br /> </p> Andrew Sullivan on Chas Freeman — looks like he is following up on his earlier thoughts on Israel and neoconservatism, despite earlier backpeddling.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/03/a-freeman-time.html#more

]]> By: chris berel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html/comment-page-1#comment-27147 chris berel Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/07/was-jeffrey-goldberg-idealistic-in-moving-to-israel-and-serving-in-its-army.html#comment-27147 <p>Otto, you're like a bad record stuck on the worst part of the recording. Zionism has always about Jews re-establishing their presence in their national homeland. Land was purchased and they moved to it. When I buy 50 acres in England and move there, I don't expect you or any other asshole to claim I'm colonizing.</p> Otto, you're like a bad record stuck on the worst part of the recording. Zionism has always about Jews re-establishing their presence in their national homeland. Land was purchased and they moved to it. When I buy 50 acres in England and move there, I don't expect you or any other asshole to claim I'm colonizing.

]]>