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	<title>Comments on: Zellnik: &#8217;7 Jewish Children&#8217; reminded me that the media and Jewish organizations have infantilized us</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:10:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Joachim Martillo</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22476</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachim Martillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22476</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Rights of Gays in Arab world: &lt;a href=&quot;http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/03/qunfuz-gulf-between-us.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;qunfuz: The Gulf Between Us&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Jewish Nazis calling Muslims Nazis: &lt;a href=&quot;http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/03/zionizing-muslim-via-interfaith.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Zionizing Muslims via Interfaith Dialogue&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Jews Dehumanizing Non-Jews: &lt;a href=&quot;http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/03/jewish-zionist-dehumanization-of-non.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jewish Zionist Dehumanization of Non-Jews&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rights of Gays in Arab world: <a href="http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/03/qunfuz-gulf-between-us.html" rel="nofollow">qunfuz: The Gulf Between Us</a></p>
<p>Jewish Nazis calling Muslims Nazis: <a href="http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/03/zionizing-muslim-via-interfaith.html" rel="nofollow">Zionizing Muslims via Interfaith Dialogue</a></p>
<p>Jews Dehumanizing Non-Jews: <a href="http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/03/jewish-zionist-dehumanization-of-non.html" rel="nofollow">Jewish Zionist Dehumanization of Non-Jews</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22477</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22477</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Subjectivity, one&#039;s perception from one&#039;s experiences, that constructs one&#039;s interpretation, is NOT objective.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The experience of a state of harrassment to a state of harrassment is a real experience, whether you look at it through the eyes of &quot;that objective reality does not match up with the second experience&quot;, or not.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And, its not a fantasy. Its a real experience.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Its similar to the Palestinian description of chains of persecution at the hands of different communities, or even different Israelis, or different Jews.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe there&#039;s a common link between one Jew&#039;s treatment of Palestinians, the state&#039;s treatment of Palestinians, and another Jew&#039;s. Or maybe not.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It doesn&#039;t make their experience, and then attitude less real, just less objective.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But, that exactly describes the obnoxious vanity of our American assimilated judgement of an &quot;other&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Art is the RELATIONSHIP between the subjective and the objective. If there is no interaction, no communication, no recognition that it is communication, then its just expression rather than communication.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The VALIDITY of the subjective, of the Jews&#039;, MUST be a part of the attendee&#039;s experience, and not ONLY the dismissal of Jews&#039; imagined experience.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Its like having a dream, and intentionally only interpreting the importance of one character. Its HALF the lesson of the dream.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Subjectivity, one&#39;s perception from one&#39;s experiences, that constructs one&#39;s interpretation, is NOT objective.</p>
<p>The experience of a state of harrassment to a state of harrassment is a real experience, whether you look at it through the eyes of &quot;that objective reality does not match up with the second experience&quot;, or not.</p>
<p>And, its not a fantasy. Its a real experience.</p>
<p>Its similar to the Palestinian description of chains of persecution at the hands of different communities, or even different Israelis, or different Jews.</p>
<p>Maybe there&#39;s a common link between one Jew&#39;s treatment of Palestinians, the state&#39;s treatment of Palestinians, and another Jew&#39;s. Or maybe not.</p>
<p>It doesn&#39;t make their experience, and then attitude less real, just less objective.</p>
<p>But, that exactly describes the obnoxious vanity of our American assimilated judgement of an &quot;other&quot;.</p>
<p>Art is the RELATIONSHIP between the subjective and the objective. If there is no interaction, no communication, no recognition that it is communication, then its just expression rather than communication.</p>
<p>The VALIDITY of the subjective, of the Jews&#39;, MUST be a part of the attendee&#39;s experience, and not ONLY the dismissal of Jews&#39; imagined experience.</p>
<p>Its like having a dream, and intentionally only interpreting the importance of one character. Its HALF the lesson of the dream.</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22478</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22478</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@ Witty&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;All art by definition is subjective, and so more or less objective. Dali thought he had a connection to physics. He even tried to show it--look at his first and second renditions of The Persistence Of Memory.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What do you mean by &quot;The VALIDITY of the subjective, of the Jews&#039;, MUST be a part of the attendee&#039;s experience, and not ONLY the dismissal of Jews&#039; imagined experience&quot;? I assume you mean the converse also, relating to the Palestinian experience. Is that right? Seems you attack the poem for dismissing the Jews&#039; imagined experience--if so, how so? If not, what do you mean? Are you asking for Churchill to now&lt;br /&gt;
write a poem called Seven Palestinian Children? She may well do this. If not, please clarify your comment. Thanks. Exactly how does the poem annoy you, confuse you--or do you think it&#039;s very good?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Witty</p>
<p>All art by definition is subjective, and so more or less objective. Dali thought he had a connection to physics. He even tried to show it&#8211;look at his first and second renditions of The Persistence Of Memory.</p>
<p>What do you mean by &quot;The VALIDITY of the subjective, of the Jews&#39;, MUST be a part of the attendee&#39;s experience, and not ONLY the dismissal of Jews&#39; imagined experience&quot;? I assume you mean the converse also, relating to the Palestinian experience. Is that right? Seems you attack the poem for dismissing the Jews&#39; imagined experience&#8211;if so, how so? If not, what do you mean? Are you asking for Churchill to now<br />
write a poem called Seven Palestinian Children? She may well do this. If not, please clarify your comment. Thanks. Exactly how does the poem annoy you, confuse you&#8211;or do you think it&#39;s very good?</p>
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		<title>By: Rowan</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22479</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22479</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Witty, you should change your handle to Witterer, because that&#039;s all you ever do: witter on endlessly about trivial abstract theories. God preserve us from your &#039;jazz playing&#039;, it must be the most boring on the planet.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Witty, you should change your handle to Witterer, because that&#39;s all you ever do: witter on endlessly about trivial abstract theories. God preserve us from your &#39;jazz playing&#39;, it must be the most boring on the planet.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22480</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22480</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Do you value the voices themselves, or only what it says about the voices?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you only value the condemnation, then you&#039;ve seen nothing.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you value the voices themselves, or only what it says about the voices?</p>
<p>If you only value the condemnation, then you&#39;ve seen nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: ...</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22481</link>
		<dc:creator>...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22481</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;witty - i would think your jazz playing is quite good for the same reason! i play jazz too.... &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>witty &#8211; i would think your jazz playing is quite good for the same reason! i play jazz too&#8230;. </p>
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		<title>By: Rowan</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22482</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22482</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;well, it doesn&#039;t matter how crap it is, anyway, given that all the mainstream jazz reviewers are Jewish. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;whoops, I made an anti-Semitic statement. Go to the back of the motherfucking class, Rowan.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, it doesn&#39;t matter how crap it is, anyway, given that all the mainstream jazz reviewers are Jewish. </p>
<p>whoops, I made an anti-Semitic statement. Go to the back of the motherfucking class, Rowan.</p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22483</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22483</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Lisa read it beautifully, simply, and I started to cry. And that was my night.&lt;/i&gt; &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;cartharsis. forbidden. why?&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Lisa read it beautifully, simply, and I started to cry. And that was my night.</i> </p>
<p>cartharsis. forbidden. why?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacqueline_Hyde</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22484</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacqueline_Hyde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22484</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You can always tell a witty post before you&#039;re done with the first line. It&#039;s fog concealing mud.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can always tell a witty post before you&#39;re done with the first line. It&#39;s fog concealing mud.</p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-22485</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/27/zellnik-7-jewish-children-reminds-us-that-the-media-and-jewish-organizations-have-infantilized-us.html#comment-22485</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;All art by definition is subjective, and so more or less objective. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The more subjective it gets, the more universal. That&#039;s the crux.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I have lost sight of neocon&#039;s handling or treatment of the arts. I have to admit it partly made me slightly suspicious. Irving Kristol wrote an essay on the sixties counterculture. The huge desire for the arts he saw there as a trace to the ultimate evil, I have never witnessed during the times I met all the leftists during the late sixties and early seventies. The vast majority then had a very narrow utility approach to the arts. Political indoctrination. &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>All art by definition is subjective, and so more or less objective. </i></p>
<p>The more subjective it gets, the more universal. That&#39;s the crux.</p>
<p>I have lost sight of neocon&#39;s handling or treatment of the arts. I have to admit it partly made me slightly suspicious. Irving Kristol wrote an essay on the sixties counterculture. The huge desire for the arts he saw there as a trace to the ultimate evil, I have never witnessed during the times I met all the leftists during the late sixties and early seventies. The vast majority then had a very narrow utility approach to the arts. Political indoctrination. </p>
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