Comments on: Palestinians don’t have to recognize Israel as Jewish state, U.S. says http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 09:59:01 +0000 hourly 1 By: Gert http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17824 Gert Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17824 <p>Here in the UK, people like Robert Fisk merit Ha'aretz much higher than our own newspapers, which are seen as either blatantly pro-Zionist or at least as shying away from any serious critiquing of Israel.</p> Here in the UK, people like Robert Fisk merit Ha'aretz much higher than our own newspapers, which are seen as either blatantly pro-Zionist or at least as shying away from any serious critiquing of Israel.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17825 Richard Witty Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17825 <p>It means that an Israeli newspaper is the place to get more Israeli news than an American.</p> It means that an Israeli newspaper is the place to get more Israeli news than an American.

]]> By: MRW. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17826 MRW. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17826 <p>Good for Mitchell.</p> Good for Mitchell.

]]> By: MRW. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17827 MRW. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17827 <p>It's not journalists, Phil, it's editors.</p> It's not journalists, Phil, it's editors.

]]> By: MRW. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17828 MRW. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17828 <p>Meaning, it's great Jewish editors at Haaretz that are spawning this. People with some balls.</p> Meaning, it's great Jewish editors at Haaretz that are spawning this. People with some balls.

]]> By: Tuyzentfloot http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17829 Tuyzentfloot Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17829 <p>Probably the problem is with Netanyahu's demand being a precondition, not with the demand by itself. Barak already demanded it during Camp David, but kept it low key. Olmert was open about it. Mostly it's still being framed as 'accepting the existence of Israel', while it means accepting that there is no right of return and that the Iraeli Arabs don't belong in Israel.</p> <p>Whenever claims of Netanyahu or Lieberman are discussed I become a bit fidgety with a knee-jerk reaction of "who are they letting off the hook here?". There was an interview with Van Creveld in a belgian magazine(I'm belgian) and he said that someone from the entourage of Lieberman had proposed to exchange the piece of land with Umm-al-Fahm on it for settlement areas. And Van Creveld approved. That looked a lot like testing the waters for an idea. Sure Lieberman likes the idea but so did Barak in 2000, only he didn't dare to say so openly. How different is Lieberman from the rest?<br /> </p> Probably the problem is with Netanyahu's demand being a precondition, not with the demand by itself. Barak already demanded it during Camp David, but kept it low key. Olmert was open about it. Mostly it's still being framed as 'accepting the existence of Israel', while it means accepting that there is no right of return and that the Iraeli Arabs don't belong in Israel.

Whenever claims of Netanyahu or Lieberman are discussed I become a bit fidgety with a knee-jerk reaction of "who are they letting off the hook here?". There was an interview with Van Creveld in a belgian magazine(I'm belgian) and he said that someone from the entourage of Lieberman had proposed to exchange the piece of land with Umm-al-Fahm on it for settlement areas. And Van Creveld approved. That looked a lot like testing the waters for an idea. Sure Lieberman likes the idea but so did Barak in 2000, only he didn't dare to say so openly. How different is Lieberman from the rest?

]]> By: DICKERSON3870 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17830 DICKERSON3870 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17830 <p>RE: "When the lobby accuses us of anti-Semitism, do they understand how much we respect the tremendous Jewish tradition in journalism?"</p> <p>MY COMMENT: All the 'Likud Lobby' cares about is THE LAND, THE LAND, THE LAND!</p> <p>FROM IMDB: "Gone with the Wind" (1939)<br /> Gerald O'Hara: "Do you mean to tell me, Katie Scarlett O'Hara, that Tara, that land doesn't mean anything to you? Why, land is the only thing in the world worth workin' for, worth fightin' for, worth dyin' for, because it's the only thing that lasts." </p> RE: "When the lobby accuses us of anti-Semitism, do they understand how much we respect the tremendous Jewish tradition in journalism?"

MY COMMENT: All the 'Likud Lobby' cares about is THE LAND, THE LAND, THE LAND!

FROM IMDB: "Gone with the Wind" (1939)
Gerald O'Hara: "Do you mean to tell me, Katie Scarlett O'Hara, that Tara, that land doesn't mean anything to you? Why, land is the only thing in the world worth workin' for, worth fightin' for, worth dyin' for, because it's the only thing that lasts."

]]> By: Steve http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17831 Steve Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17831 <p>The US did not recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Below is the link to the US document recognizing Israel and signed by Truman. The words "Jewish State" are crossed out and the words "State of Israel" are written in hand by Truman. Click to enlarge:</p> <p>http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/recog.jpg</p> The US did not recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Below is the link to the US document recognizing Israel and signed by Truman. The words "Jewish State" are crossed out and the words "State of Israel" are written in hand by Truman. Click to enlarge:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/recog.jpg

]]> By: Diane http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17832 Diane Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17832 <p>Listening to Mitchell talking alongside Netanyahu last week on the subject of the “Jewish state” was very interesting. Netanyahu wanted the Palestinians to recognize Israel as the state of the Jewish people, but Mitchell was talking about a two state solution comprising a Palestinian state and “the Jewish state of Israel”. It sounds on the surface as if they’re saying the same thing, but it’s not the same thing at all. </p> <p>When Olmert tried to insist that the Palestinians recognize Israel as “the state of the Jewish people” as a precondition for the Annapolis conference, the PLO refused, saying they give Israel the same kind of diplomatic recognition the rest of the world does, i.e. they recognize the state of Israel, but in doing so do not give consent to the idea that “the state of Israel” is tied to a particular ethnic-religious group or preferred demographic balance, which goes beyond the limits of what diplomatic recognition is. The PLO said they would have no problem recognizing “the Jewish State of Israel” (in a titular sense), if this is how Israel wishes to be known, just as they recognize “the Islamic Republic of Iran”, because sovereign states may choose what they wish to be called, and the Palestinians would respect whatever the state of Israel wishes to be called. </p> <p>Knowing that Olmert already tried the “state of the Jewish people” precondition, and that the PLO countered that diplomatic recognition is not tied to ethnicity or religion, except in a purely titular way, it is interesting to read that the U.S. is now also rejecting that precondition and to hear Mitchell using the title “the Jewish state of Israel”. For the first time in years it sounds as if a U.S. administration actually understands and is grappling with the nuances of what the “Jewish state” issue involves. <br /> </p> Listening to Mitchell talking alongside Netanyahu last week on the subject of the “Jewish state” was very interesting. Netanyahu wanted the Palestinians to recognize Israel as the state of the Jewish people, but Mitchell was talking about a two state solution comprising a Palestinian state and “the Jewish state of Israel”. It sounds on the surface as if they’re saying the same thing, but it’s not the same thing at all.

When Olmert tried to insist that the Palestinians recognize Israel as “the state of the Jewish people” as a precondition for the Annapolis conference, the PLO refused, saying they give Israel the same kind of diplomatic recognition the rest of the world does, i.e. they recognize the state of Israel, but in doing so do not give consent to the idea that “the state of Israel” is tied to a particular ethnic-religious group or preferred demographic balance, which goes beyond the limits of what diplomatic recognition is. The PLO said they would have no problem recognizing “the Jewish State of Israel” (in a titular sense), if this is how Israel wishes to be known, just as they recognize “the Islamic Republic of Iran”, because sovereign states may choose what they wish to be called, and the Palestinians would respect whatever the state of Israel wishes to be called.

Knowing that Olmert already tried the “state of the Jewish people” precondition, and that the PLO countered that diplomatic recognition is not tied to ethnicity or religion, except in a purely titular way, it is interesting to read that the U.S. is now also rejecting that precondition and to hear Mitchell using the title “the Jewish state of Israel”. For the first time in years it sounds as if a U.S. administration actually understands and is grappling with the nuances of what the “Jewish state” issue involves.

]]> By: D. http://mondoweiss.net/2009/04/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html/comment-page-1#comment-17833 D. Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/19/palestinians-dont-have-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-us-says.html#comment-17833 <p>Nice point, Steve. More <a href="http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2007/12/recognizing-the.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p> Nice point, Steve. More here.

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