http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 12:53:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79203 JES49 Wed, 13 May 2009 12:33:11 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79203 Rowan, I wouldn't be allowed to come to England and simply define myself as British for nationality purposes either!!! Marriages performed outside of Israel are all recognized by the Ministry of the Interior and registered as such in the population registry. And what are "generically 'Jewish' activities" by you? Today there are healthy Conservative and Reform congregations all over Israel that offer a full range of services (including marriage and burial). Rowan, I wouldn't be allowed to come to England and simply define myself as British for nationality purposes either!!! Marriages performed outside of Israel are all recognized by the Ministry of the Interior and registered as such in the population registry. And what are "generically 'Jewish' activities" by you? Today there are healthy Conservative and Reform congregations all over Israel that offer a full range of services (including marriage and burial).

]]> http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79223 JES49 Wed, 13 May 2009 11:44:35 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79223 <em>...to see whether they identified themselves as Jewish or not, and to classify them accordingly.</em> And how does this coincide with a <em>genetic</em> ideology of racial superiority? Many German Jews did not identify themselves as Jewish, and they went to their graves protesting that they were Germans! …to see whether they identified themselves as Jewish or not, and to classify them accordingly. And how does this coincide with a genetic ideology of racial superiority? Many German Jews did not identify themselves as Jewish, and they went to their graves protesting that they were Germans!

]]> http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79222 Margaret599 Wed, 13 May 2009 10:18:08 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79222 Roland, there does seem to be considerable controversy. Roland, there does seem to be considerable controversy.

]]> http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79221 RowanBerkeley Wed, 13 May 2009 09:17:02 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79221 Margaret, you give no source for your account of the Nazi race laws, but I believe it is incorrect. In cases where one only out of four grandparents was a member of the Jewish religion, it was the normal procedure as I understand it to look at the individual's lifestyle, to see whether they identified themselves as Jewish or not, and to classify them accordingly. Margaret, you give no source for your account of the Nazi race laws, but I believe it is incorrect. In cases where one only out of four grandparents was a member of the Jewish religion, it was the normal procedure as I understand it to look at the individual's lifestyle, to see whether they identified themselves as Jewish or not, and to classify them accordingly.

]]> http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79202 RowanBerkeley Wed, 13 May 2009 09:13:56 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79202 You wouldn't be allowed to define yourself as a Jew, for Israeli nationality purposes, nor would your marriage be recognised there. Even in Britain, where the Orthodox rabbinate has a lot of power and is extremely strict, you would be excluded from many of what you might suppose would be generically 'Jewish' activities. You wouldn't be allowed to define yourself as a Jew, for Israeli nationality purposes, nor would your marriage be recognised there. Even in Britain, where the Orthodox rabbinate has a lot of power and is extremely strict, you would be excluded from many of what you might suppose would be generically 'Jewish' activities.

]]> http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79186 Margaret599 Wed, 13 May 2009 08:25:29 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79186 Let me also say that Herzl's vision is compelling to me, individually - I also loved News From Nowhere. There are major differences between what Herzl says in the phamphlet available at Gutenberg and what Israel is and does as a State. But I do believe that if my neighbor, my friend, my relative is unsafe because of ethnicity, then I am unsafe. The idea of not having people who are Jewish as part of my community, because someone so violently disliked "Jews" that they were not safe, makes me sick and angry. I don't want to live in a society which considers such a threat acceptable. I do not believe that such a threat would be allowed to continue in my physical community. I have good reason for that belief, because crimes committed from hate do occur, and the consequences are notable in public statements that such threats are not from the community, but from isolated and sanctioned individuals. Anti-semitism is one form of adverse discrimination; crimes committed because of a discriminatory hatred all bring public condemnation. Let me also say that Herzl's vision is compelling to me, individually – I also loved News From Nowhere. There are major differences between what Herzl says in the phamphlet available at Gutenberg and what Israel is and does as a State. But I do believe that if my neighbor, my friend, my relative is unsafe because of ethnicity, then I am unsafe. The idea of not having people who are Jewish as part of my community, because someone so violently disliked "Jews" that they were not safe, makes me sick and angry. I don't want to live in a society which considers such a threat acceptable. I do not believe that such a threat would be allowed to continue in my physical community. I have good reason for that belief, because crimes committed from hate do occur, and the consequences are notable in public statements that such threats are not from the community, but from isolated and sanctioned individuals. Anti-semitism is one form of adverse discrimination; crimes committed because of a discriminatory hatred all bring public condemnation.

]]> http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79185 Margaret599 Wed, 13 May 2009 08:07:30 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79185 JES49: This discussion has been useful in developing my understanding of issues I consider vital. I find your attitude unpleasant. Your assertions are opinions you do not bother to support; you construct straw-dogs because unable to disprove what I say, and demolish them with vigor. Fail. I've learned a lot responding. If you consider a question unanswered or a point not addressed, repeat it. Assertions of opinion or new straw-dogs won't compel a response. JES49: This discussion has been useful in developing my understanding of issues I consider vital. I find your attitude unpleasant. Your assertions are opinions you do not bother to support; you construct straw-dogs because unable to disprove what I say, and demolish them with vigor. Fail. I've learned a lot responding. If you consider a question unanswered or a point not addressed, repeat it. Assertions of opinion or new straw-dogs won't compel a response.

]]> http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79274 JES49 Wed, 13 May 2009 08:07:11 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79274 There is absolutely no contradiction. The courts in the U.S. (even the Supreme Court) have declined to rule on matters due to security and "policy" considerations (that should, I belive, not have been translated as "political", but rather as "policy"). At any rate, "security and policy" considerations are certainly not left up to the religious authorities!!! There is absolutely no contradiction. The courts in the U.S. (even the Supreme Court) have declined to rule on matters due to security and "policy" considerations (that should, I belive, not have been translated as "political", but rather as "policy"). At any rate, "security and policy" considerations are certainly not left up to the religious authorities!!!

]]> http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79273 JES49 Wed, 13 May 2009 08:00:22 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79273 Margaret, again, you're speaking jibberish here. True, b'tselem (an organization whose work, BTW, I generally respect) is monitoring a society that finds itself in a state of constant warfare, as you say. Okay. So what? The U.S. also has organizations that monitor Guantanamo and other installations. The Israeli "cultural acceptance" as opposed to the U.S. lack of "cultural acceptance" reflect different realities; not different values (or at least not appreciably different values), and I think you are in serious error in calling such acceptance "cultural". The same is true with the policies of your government being aligned more closely with Israel's (whose should they have been aligned with? Syria? Iran?) You need to ask yourself why, during the past eight years, there wasn't a repeat of 9/11. Was it because al-Qaeda lost interest? Or was it because the U.S. government through its cooperation with Israel - as well as the intelligence agencies of a large number of states - prevented such attacks. For your sake, I hope it's due to the first, because if it's the second, both you and Obama are in trouble! Margaret, again, you're speaking jibberish here. True, b'tselem (an organization whose work, BTW, I generally respect) is monitoring a society that finds itself in a state of constant warfare, as you say. Okay. So what? The U.S. also has organizations that monitor Guantanamo and other installations. The Israeli "cultural acceptance" as opposed to the U.S. lack of "cultural acceptance" reflect different realities; not different values (or at least not appreciably different values), and I think you are in serious error in calling such acceptance "cultural". The same is true with the policies of your government being aligned more closely with Israel's (whose should they have been aligned with? Syria? Iran?) You need to ask yourself why, during the past eight years, there wasn't a repeat of 9/11. Was it because al-Qaeda lost interest? Or was it because the U.S. government through its cooperation with Israel – as well as the intelligence agencies of a large number of states – prevented such attacks. For your sake, I hope it's due to the first, because if it's the second, both you and Obama are in trouble!

]]> http://mondoweiss.net/2009/05/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html/comment-page-2#comment-79272 JES49 Wed, 13 May 2009 07:43:54 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/05/09/memo-to-bad-jews-time-to-reclaim-your-jewish-identity-on-your-own-terms.html#comment-79272 First, I believe you mean "strawmen", not "straw dogs". Second, <em>I'm</em> not the one who brought up the jury system:<em>you</em> are. First, I believe you mean "strawmen", not "straw dogs". Second, I'm not the one who brought up the jury system:you are.

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