Juan Cole agrees that Obama and Netanyahu seemed uncomfortable with one another after their meeting; and that they fundamentally disagreed. And he makes this fine point about the new Palestinians-must-recognize-Israel-as-a-Jewish-state demand that has come into the Israel's talking points:
Netanyahu wants the Palestinians to acknowledge that Israel is a "Jewish state." I don't understand this demand. Israel is not a Jewish state, it is a multi-cultural state, with about half a million non-Jewish Russians and Ukrainians and 20% of its population is Arab. If "Jewish" is meant religiously, then observant Jews are actually a minority of the population in Israel. If "Jewish" is meant racially, then it is a particularly shameful demand. It is like demanding either that the US be recognized as a "Christian" country or as a "white" country. Obama was ill-advised to use the diction, himself.
Obama's statement:
It is in U.S. national security interests to assure that Israel’s security as an independent Jewish state is maintained.
Thanks to Susie Kneedler for the spot.
Obama's right. It is a Jewish national state, as France is a French national state, with 20% minority.
And, the Arab world should call Israel's bluff on that, if THEY are sincere about desiring peace. "Sure, you're the Jewish state, on the 67 borders, next to the Palestinian state".
Richard, come on, France is french largely because they speak a common language and have common roots. Israel is all mish mash and is not a race or language. "Jew" either denotes race or religion of which Israel is clearly a little of this and some of that. IIt's really weird, can't you see that.
So its alright to have several Muslim states but not one Jewish state? Won't Palestine be a Muslim state once this debacle is figured out? What about the Christians there? Also please don't forget that Arabs and Christians who are Israeli citizens have more rights in Israel than they would ever have in any of the neighboring Arab states. Even under the occupation those in the West Bank have more liberties than many Muslims in neighboring Islamic/Arab countries. Don't get me wrong, I know the occupation sucks and I'd give my left nut to have a free state for the Palestinians, but once they get that state I doubt they will have anymore freedoms than the Palestinians have right now in the WB. Gaza is a different story though, there is absolutely no freedoms under the Hamas controlled government.
So Obama is working for AIPAC, wasn't that clear during Gaza?
Is Obama's statement about "US national security interests" a response to Mearsheimer and Walt?
Juan cole is pathetically dishonest when he provides only 2 options for what a Jewish state means. Only religion or only race. "Jew" has NEVER represented a race except to Hilter and European racists. Judaism is a concept of peoplehood and nationhood that is far more nuanced and historically recognized than the superficial modernized concept of a nation state. Yes the Jewish nation, am Yisrael, is deeply intertwined with a religion but also a shared language and shared culture…and a specific disputed land. Its fundamental core has ALWAYS been centrally involved with the land of israel whether mostly dwelling in it or in exile and any narrative stating otherwise is absurdity. But lets single Israel out from all other contries, shall we. Thats not antisemitism, thats just good politics. As if the 50+ countries that call themselves muslim states or 20+ countries that call themselves arab states have no none muslims and no non-arabs? As if there isnt a well known history of arab and muslim conquests and denied native nations still living under their yoke. The point about recognizing Israel as a Jewish state is that the Palestinians are not negotiating in good faith when demanding a 'right of return' and their own state. They want the 'right of return' to old pre-1967 Israel instead of the shiny new palestinian state they supposedly desire. Demanding both means you want to get rid of Israel as a Jewish majority state.
It's not antisemitic you fucking stooge. Israel only exists because the Palestinian population – the indigenous population was uprooted. In every way imaginable. From destruction of Arab villages and the total white-washing of the history and culture. We aren't living in a colonial period where this barbarism is acceptable. I know Jewish Zionists love to play victim when it suits them (like the douchebag above) while at the same time committing atrocity after atrocity. Israel will not allow the right of return to maintain the Jewish character. Meanwhile we have immigrants seeping into our country. It's bullshit. The only reason we're discussing this nonsense is because Jewish Zionists peddle the Holocaust at every opportunity to guilt-trip and harass people into looking the other way. Fuck you. You're all crooks. You won't get rid of the Palestinians. It's their land. They have the right to come back home.
Get serious now. Israeli is completely segregated. Non-Jewish Israelis do not even have freedom of marriage. I would be careful to continue with the talking points about all of the rights that non-Jewish Israelis have because people are starting to notice it's a lie and they are starting to conclude that Israel is an apartheid state both inside and outside Israel proper. In fact, the Jews in Iran are treated better than Arabs and Christians in Israel and the Occupied Territories.
Netanyahu says Jews are a race and so does Bronfman. Never say never. http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2p63_Weber.html
amen…the Palestinian people are not bargaining chips for colonialism
The Christian, Jewish and Muslim and other Arabs of Palestine want PALESTINE not the fascist "Jewish State" created by Europeans! You are spreading the myth that only Muslim Arabs have a stake in Palestine. Don't forget the Palestinian Arab Jews, Christian and Muslim (and others) residents sheltered and huddled together during the Zionist fascist onslaught of Europeans in Palestine. They were and are still victims of Zionist bloody fascism.
It means "Non-Arab State." Ram follows Lustick's analysis. Conundrum of Jewish Arab Identity
But Netanyahu and Bronfman both basically fall under the "European" racist category.
If you immigrate to France, you become French. Immigrating to Israel doesn't necessarily make you Jewish, and the criteria is harsher if you can't go up as an oleh, namely you must live in Israel for three years and renounce your old citizenship.
I heard that.
In what respect would Obama's plan for a two state solution be any different from Olmert's I wonder. Interviews with Olmert http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?it... and http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?it... . A two state solution would calm the middle east and it would preserve the Jewishness of Israel. Everyone wants it. Until you spell it out. A real two state solution would require draconian measures. So one track is what the absolute minimum is they can ram down the Palestinian's throats. Another track is to add the westbank archipelago to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt.
And if you immigrate to Japan, you don't become Japanese. And just try getting naturalized in Japan. The country goes so far as to send officials to inspect your refrigerator to see what you eat.
I am proud that my President has expressed my country's commitment to the Jewish State. I am also proud that my Senators have strongly expressed their commitment. What do you think of your preisdent, Phil?
We've been here before. Bantustans were the Boers' answer to black Africans' aspirations to political (or any other)freedoms. Obviously, Netanyahu has just this in mind. But the Boers faced a different situation, with some 300 years of colonisation, facing a Bantu immigration that was not a lot older. Between them, they wiped out the South African Honnentots and San. In another context, consider what might have happened if White Americans established shiny new "cities on the hill" in the South that disallowed the local poor niggers any political power at all. That's exactly what they did Israel will carry on as they do until more than half their state's population are slaves.
If Israel's borders are fundamentally agreed and set along the 1967 borders, Israel is to all intents and purposes a Jewish homeland in Palestine. These are distinctions will no difference. Actually, if the Palestinians are smart about this they will acquiesce to Israeli demands. Considering that will leave a significant minority population already discontented by judicial & legal discrimination and racial prejudice, the Palestinians will be doing the Israelis no favors.
Egypt and Jordan want no part of Israels mess and are resolutely committed to making damn certain Israel remains eternally married to it, one way or another.
The pigeon is bewildered that there are people who claim a right to return to a piece of real estate on the grounds that one grandparent is a descendent of someone who converted to a mutation of an ancient religion that originated on a piece of that real estate thirty centuries earlier, while at the same time dissing someone wishing to return to an ancestral village from which he was displaced sixty years ago.
I'm not just making wild guesses. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/966225.html for example shows that Egypt already has agreed to become the sole electricity provider for Gaza. And my links in parent post indicate that Olmert was/is serious about some kind of Palestinian state. In addition, in other places he thought that too little of a palestinian state would backfire.
How lovely that Strahel and AsisWhen find a comfortable belonging in this AIPAC like community. Ignore the rest of the world because its all about the Jooooos. Israel should smarten up and be winners like Sri Lanka this week and ignore fools like the UNHRC and you strange folks.
Joshua – What, exactly, is a Jewish state? Is it ethnic ? ie racist – (including Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Falashim ?) Genetic studies have disproved tthose propositions, many times over, and in fact have shown that the resident Palestinians are the true heirs of 'Israel and Judea'. Is it religious? Then why are Neturei Karta – Ultra Orthodox, against the idea of a Jewish state' ? Most Israelis are enjoying themselves in Tel-Aviv, a city built on sand, and nothing whatsoever to do with the 'return to the roots of the Jewish people' The time will come when they are drummed out, exactly as they did to the previous native-born people. They won't be massacred; they'll simply be sent home; to Moldova, Poland, Russia or the Ukraine..
you lost me Aaji… who knows what will happen to the Jews in Israel? Let's focus instead on the ongoing human rights violations against the Palestinian people… jeez, people are so worried about jewish feelings while houses are being bulldozed and populations in camps are being told they can't come home because they're not the right race/ethnicity/religion/etc…
If I was part of the mafia and "my" president expressed "my country's" (grand stretch albiet but I would phrase it that way too) commitment, I would say that I was proud also. "whoopie, more thugs on "my country's" side!"
Here's the framework to your suggestion. I really wish it would come to fruition. But Israel (Likud) has promised to literally pummel those who dare (declare a state called Palestine). I guess we've seen it. http://www.pakistanlink.com/nayyer/08112005.htm
At least it's theoretically possible to get naturalized in Japan. With Israel, it's absolutely impossible if your grandparent is from the country and you aren't Jewish.