First there was the Nakba law, then the loyalty oath, now the Israeli Knesset is considering a bill that would institute a one year jail sentence for anyone who speaks “against Israel’s existence as a Jewish and democratic state.”
According to Ynet, the act of criticizing Israel as a Jewish state becomes illegal when “it may lead to acts of hatred, scorn or lack of loyalty to the State or its government authorities or law systems which have been established legally.” The bill, which just passed its first reading in the Knesset, was introduced by MK Zevulun Orlev from the right wing Habayit Hayehudi (Jewish Home) party. Orlev is chairman of the Knesset’s Education Committee.
Although the bill passed this initial test by a 47-34 vote, there were some strong reactions against it. Ynet quotes Meretz Chairman Chaim Oron as saying, “Have you lost your confidence in the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state? This crazy government – what exactly are you doing? Thought Police? Have you lost it?” MK Jamal Zahalka, from the Balad party, had a more profound reaction that seems to summarize apparent state of the Israeli government as these bills get introduced and move forward:
“Many intellectuals in the academia who talk about a country belonging to all its citizens belong in prison, according to MK Orlev. Arab and Jewish leaders who seek real democracy in Israel also belong in jail, according to Orlev… He wants to put anyone who doesn’t agree with him in jail.”
“This is the proposal: Whoever says ‘death to the Arabs’ should not be put in prison, but whoever says ‘a country of all its citizens’ should not be put in prison. This is a crazy law aimed at managing the political discourse according to laws.”
And we consider them a "democracy." You cannot simultaneously be a religious state and a democracy. Period.
I love that headline! Israel is proposing legislation that will impose a 1-year sentence on citizens who try to overthrow the elected government by changing the national character (demographic, cultural, whatever), the Arab MKs then rampage in the Knesset and you headline your posting as ISRAEL is panicked???? It is Arab Members of the Israeli Knesset like Zachalka and Ahmed Tibi who are panicked! They might have to flee like Azmi Bishara, a fugutive Arab spy and former Member of the Knesset. Hold on… in other countries do people like this get 1 year in jail? Or the firing squad? How is treason treated in YOUR country? Hypocrites.
I agree with you, Adam, although my first reaction is always to consider far-Right lunatic fringe initiatives like this to be mere feints. in other words, I consider them as examples of a sort of 'triangulation': they are intended to fail, but to pull the entire political process somewhat to the Right, as a sort of vector sum effect. But this one looks real, and, as such, it is (a) absurd; (b) doomed to certain failure whether passed into law or not; and (c) a guaranteed public relations disaster of the crassest sort. It is therefore, if you have a strong enough stomach for this kind of thing, good news, of a sort.
LOL. LOL. that just made my morning. Israel's going nuts. Is there a lack of psychologists in that country?
Treason by Zionists working through AIPAC is not prosecuted in the US.
Everybody with any symptoms of incipient sanity is weeded out at high school level by the infamous Psychometric Exam.
I would tend to agree with you Rowan, but I still think it's notable that there are several similar bills and they are being introduced by committee chairs no less. There does get to be a time when the "far-Right lunatic fringe" gets enough numbers to get things done. I didn't mention it in the post, but one of the predecessors to the Habayit Hayehudi party was the Moledet Party whose main plank was the ethnic cleaning (aka "transfer") of Palestinians from the state of Israel.
According to Ynet, the act of criticizing Israel as a Jewish state becomes illegal when "it may lead to acts of hatred, scorn or lack of loyalty to the State or its government authorities or law systems which have been established legally." What about the illegal government and law system that has been established on land conquered militarily ?
Hypocrites? Our country is far better than Israel. Our great ally. Too bad for Jonathan Pollard. That is treason and our country saw it as such. Today, treason is welcomed in our country. People like Jane Harman, Keith Weissman and others are free to go thanks to the hidden hands of government operatives.
…that have been established…
"my first reaction is always to consider far-Right lunatic fringe initiatives like this to be mere feints" That's what I am hoping, too.
I'd like to read more about that, Rowan. I'll Google it, but do you have a link to information on it?
When I lived in the deep South prior to integration, any effort to defend minority rights was loudly ridiculed by the phrase, "Oh, so you're a N***** Lover?" This worked effectively for many years to prevent open discourse. It was a form of tyranny over the human mind. Accusing those who oppose elements of Zionism that are offensive to universalism and involve denial of basic human rights to an oppressed minority of Anti-Semitism is another form of such tyranny. Criminalizing such statements takes tyranny to a whole new level. It is downright Un-American.
Gosh, Jake, you wouldn't like it here in America, we "overthrow the government" every four years! Of course, the government of Israel is a sickly and delicate creature, who will go plotz the first time somebody says a word. OBTW, Jakeila, is Israel an Orthodox Jewish State, a Reform Jewish State, or a Conservative Jewish State. Doesn't bother me either way, of course, I've got plenty of relatives in each division. Or are the sects, or denominations? Oh well, doesn't matter, they're all Jewish, and there's never any confusion about what that means.
Hows the railway system in Israel? Do they have enough boxcars or cattle cars to carry out the plan? And more importantly, if a boxcar is used to transport Arabs, is it still Kosher to transport cattle in it? Gosh, it's not easy being a "Jewish State".
Like in "Oh, so you're an arab sand-n* lover? Two jews and an a black, made the USA Civil Rights movement–now, can we go with Rachel Corrie, A white goy hero?
Ummm, the US carpet-bombs Arabs while Israel makes surgical strikes against guilty individuals. In fact, the US forces come to Israel to LEARN about surgical strikes. As for Pollard, he released information that the Reagan administration had agreed to share with Israel but cheated on Israel. No one was killed or even hurt by Pollard's released info. In fact, it enabled Israel to take out Saddam's Osirak reactor – and a decade later, half a million US soldiers were pleased as punch that they weren't facing a nuclear Iraq. Incidentally, Pollard received a vastly much harsher sentence than Saudi spies who were caught and convicted in the US but let free. Why is this? Hidden hands in govt? Could you be referring to Petro-Dollars controlling Washington?
if you're in NYC this weekend, come let these people know the inherent contradictions in jewish democracy (on expropriated land)
Palestineans in Israel are not trying to change the govt via elections, as Americans and Jewish Israelis do. Instead they support terrorism – they pay for it, plan it, participate in it, kill with it, die with it. Have you never heard of Palestinean terrorism? Do you only read this pathetic site and don't read any news anywhere?
"had agreed to share with Israel but cheated on Israel." -What does this mean? Pollard is a crook and betrayed his country, which is why he is serving life in prison. You cannot sell classified information. No president will pardon him.
(not the same andrew above) It's already illegal to run if the party's against Israel as the state of the Jewish people. I know Israel's apologists will consider Zahalka's dissent a sign of democracy but even if this law doesn't get passed I don't see the much ballyhooded Arab MKs introducing a law to repeal the Knesset Law or for that matter even sections of the Absentees Property Law that extends the designation to Israeli citizens and restoring property to 'present-absentees'.
I have been getting quite a few comments in Russian, in Cyrillic script, on my own blog. This suggests that the Lieberman followers are pretty thick. I mean, my Russian is non-existent. I can only tell they are hostile because of the number of exclamation points they seem to use.
I only know what appears occasionally in Haaretz, JPost, or Ynet about it. for instance, recently there was a promise to modify it so that it would be less offensive to the religiously observant than it apparently currently is.
the women of Machsom Watch are constantly being accused of being 'whores'. It's exactly the same thing.
Do they have enough boxcars… If not, the US will gift them to Israel.
"As for Pollard, he released information that the Reagan administration had agreed to share with Israel but cheated on Israel. " Wrong! That's the information Pollard ACCEPTED to be charged with releasing — which was undoubtedly a crime. (You know, even if your country has promised to share information, you're not allowed to do so until your superiors give you an order to.) But Pollard passed on to the Israelis more than one million documents, and the overwhelming majority of them formed part of no US-Israel information-sharing agreement. The damage caused to US intelligence was so serious that George Tenet threatened to resign as CIA director when Bill Clinton hinted at pardoning Pollard. The fact that the prosecution made a deal with Pollard to only bring up a few documents does not mean that they were the only documents illegally transfered, and mixing the two concepts is a disingenuous Zionist gambit. Do yourself a favor: think a little more with your own head and a little less with Dershowitz's.
"In fact, the US forces come to Israel to LEARN about surgical strikes." and the torture, indefinite detention and ethnic cleansing of Arabs too. Look where it's gotten us.
You must know some really bad surgeons.
Here's a link to a series of articles in Ha'aretz dealing with the psychometric exams in Israel: <a href="http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0386.htm And here's an article from Jonathan Cook in the difficulties that Israeli Arab students face in Israel higher education, which mentions the psychometric tests.: http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0386.htm I hope these help.
Well, I f–d up the first link. Try this: http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/php/cs.p...
Didn't the whack-jobs succeed in getting a law like this passed in Canada? And aren't they currently trying to make it illegal here in the US to do the same? Gaza protests violate Canadian laws: Jewish Congress The [Jewish] congress has video and images from "pro-Hamas" protests in Toronto, Montreal and Calgary that were "uncivil, un-Canadian, that demonize Jews and Israelis," and might have violated Canadian laws, CEO Bernie Farber said in an interview. [...] The congress said it would release a list of those who co-sponsored the anti-Israel protests, among them the Ontario wing of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, the Canadian Peace Alliance and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers. [Bernie Farber lobbied hard to have the JDL, which the U.S. State Department and U.S. courts have branded a 'terrorist organization', recognized in Canada because "they have a right to exist." It was the JDL head Irv Rubin who successfully lobbied the Canadian government recently to prevent George Galloway from entering the country.] http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/570376 Here in the US, the ADL is pushing a new version of the Hates Crimes Prevention Bill going through the Senate Judiciary Committee as I write. Right-wing Christian groups, whom the ADL names as anti-semitic on their Web site, fear the politicization of complaints against Israel are included under the religious component of the bill and therefore subject to the new federal prosecution. They may have a point. [I'm a free speech libertarian, and not interested in political, religious, or social groups telling me what I can and cannot hear. Nor am I interested in anyone telling me, or legislating for mer, what is loving, hateful, or despicable.]
The thought police will be at your door soon enough…
Haha I like that one!
From the end of that Ynet article:
Obviously, the Canadians have already bought this restriction. Maybe people will wake up by watching the uproar in Israel and listening to arguments that fell on deaf ears here.
Expressing hate through speech or writing should not be against the law, and should be a protected human right. The Zionists express hate at this web log everyday, and that is their right. Acting out hate with violence towards the object is what should be prohibited.
The real panic is failed writer Phil Weiss who trades on his Jewish name so he can shill for the Israel/Jew haters of the world and make his rent payments. What a sad fat fuck! lol
Once you become afraid of free speech, you've already lost.
Gee, Jakey, I heard there was a country in the Middle East claiming to be a "Jewish State" ,which established itself by terror and land theft, http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2009/01/a... that then turned on its English benefactors by killing British civilians in Jerusalem, and when given recognition by the UN, proceded to contemptuously ignore the UN's Resolutions. I also heard this "Jewish State" took large areas in the course of a war, and has militarily occupied those areas, and inflicted a steady series of collective punishments and murders on the poor people in those areas, for the last 40 years. Is that the kind of news you mean? I didn't read any of that here for the first time, it's all over the papers.
Okay, Rowan. That should be enough for me to find it, and find out about it. Thanks. Gee, maybe Jake could tell us about it. Probably save me some Googling.
Of course. I should have assumed that.
Jake, meet your partner: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/576453/posts
Go ahead and do it Israel. I hope the law fills the gaols with dissenters both Jewish , Druse, Muslims and Christians. What a shameful lot you politicians are. You will be scorned by the world public opinion for such prissy, tight -mouthed phony righteousness . A mature robust Democrac y deals with diference every day and has a "life". Grow up.
Former Knesset Speaker Avraham Burg has been comparing Israel to the Weimar Republic for a number of years now. From that infamous 2007 Haaretz interview:
http://bit.ly/lefbX
That's panic alright!
lol
John: I'm arresting you for disloyalty to Israel: you have a right to remain silent (LOL) Scorn is a criminal offence – remember?
I'm afraid you're all missing the significance of this law. The proposed law's wording is very ambiguous and it covers any and all expressions of opinion which is against Israel's Zionist and Orthodox Jewish character. There is no real burden of proof of any harm done, the act of expression by itself is grounds for conviction. The range of opinions cover include not just anti Zionism or Arab nationalism, but nearly everybody in Zionist Left as well (think Meretz, Meimad, Labor's left wing, Peace Now, Machsom Watch, Rabbis for Human Rights). They're going to criminalize ideologies which are in opposition to the current regime. South Africa's Apartheid regime had a similar law which was used to jail anyone who expressed ideological opposition to the regime. If this law passes, I would be making a criminal offense just by posting this comment as I am, residing in Israel.
oh, come on, Ori — half of the Israel Beiteinu mob aren't even halachically Jewish!
This law is proposed by Zvulun Orlev, who is Jewish Orthodox and an MK for HABAYIT-HAYEHUDI ("The Jewish Home"). It has nothing to do with Israel Beytenu.
Palestinians don't have a vote in Israel. All the Palestinians who have been living for the past 40 years under the Israeli regime have no vote and cannot change the government via elections.
Correction – I meant the Palestinians in the occupied territories of course.
Because no treason occurs. Too bad the law apply's to all? Is that what you're whining about?
A hero to the Pancake Makers of Arabia?
And in Europe, where the balance freedom of speech versus freedom from offense tends more towards the latter. Even if criticizing Israel is allowed by the law the FUD about such laws causes people to shut up rather than find out whether they would get in trouble. For example the central argument in middle eastern critique about the Holocaust is that of pretext and excuse, not of its reality : that its memory got abused for opportunistic reasons. This is lumped together with Holocaust denial which is already illegal in Europe. The reasons why the 'pretext' and the 'invented' points of view are mixed is partly due to muddy thinking and partly to make critics like Ahmadinejad appear at their worst. Keeping the concepts of "exaggerated" and "used as pretext" separated is not simple.
I still tend towards "hurry" rather than "panic". Less spicy but without the flavor of swinging their arms about hoping to hit something.
Actually I encountered a reference somewhere of Sharon inquiring about such things before the six day war. The logistics for moving 300.000 people. I can look it up.
Quite correct, sorry. But nevertheless, it is Beiteinu's presence in the government that has made far-Right initiatives 'respectable', isn't it?
I am sure there is no lack of psychologists in Israel, it is just that they have been trained under Zionist insane minded psychology which is obviously based on a misguided hallucinatory foundation, and now that this foundation is beginning to be exposed for what it is, these psychologists have no idea how to continue believing in their teachings, other than go nuts themselves… But they do always have the sane choice of rejecting Zionism and getting honest with themselves…
The Reagan admin was cheating on Israel. "I cannot remember" said Ron R. Anyone remember anyone else goign to jail in that admin? Also, Pollard was convicted for spying activities later corredctly traced to other spies – who got less time in jail. Why???
You are not factual. No point in arguing with you. Goodbye.
Non factual. lawrence blog is not authoritative; dont bother repeating him. ENglish benefactors? The British were OCCUPYING Israel and KILLING Israelis, including children. The British also oversaw Arab RIOTS that MASSACRED Jews. Benefactors??? Britain actually deported Jews from Israel back to the Nazis for "processing". The UN was so appalled at the behavior of the British that it enede the mandate. As for land taken, it was disputed land, still is, in fact. It was NEVER accepted by international law as territory or any country. (I DARE you to name the legal country that Israel is occupying…) There ARE NO collectiv punishemnets or "murders of poor people". You are full of propaganda. YOu fit this site wonderfully. No facts, though. Too bad.
They have their own elections. They overwhelmingly voted in the last election for IslamoFascist Hamas. I wish neighborrs like that on you.
Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." — Menachem Begin – Israeli Prime Minister 1977–1983 Please read and listen… iamthewitness.com
From what I've seen, "the right to remain silent" would appear completely superfluous to Israelis, and ZIonist everywhere.
Hmm, there's something wrong with your link. I can't seem to link to your citation for the alleged quote from Menachem Begin. Without knowing in what context and circumstances he was speaking the quote is meaningless. Perhaps he was describing the Christian attitude towards non-believers. Please don't hesitate to supply these citations and links. But don't worry, Hmm, I am aware that it is inevitable, if unfortunate, that anti-Semitism will try to co-opt anti-Zionism for its purposes, and use anti-Zionism to try and validate anti-Semitism. It is some thing you have to be ready for and even, to an extent, accept. I mean, Phil doesn't seem to mind it, or take great pains to distinguish the two, in the comments section at least. And if he said he had more important things to do, I would agree and applaud his rational. At other sites, they do, and it's a constant struggle now and then.
Hmm, If you want to vilify Jews by this nonsense you need to find a more naive audience. Your phony quote is odious.
Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25,1982: "[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
According to CAMERA this quote is suspect; here's a few more racist zionist quotes attributed to top Israeli leaders: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2003/02/11/15727... Always consider the source, e.g., CAMERA
The supposed Begin quote which 'hmm' offers, and says he found at 'Iamthewitness' (a very cranky site indeed) is pretty absurd. Such quotes never have any precise provenance. They seem to be made up by unintelligent propagandists for unintelligent audiences, and they have the side-effect of unjustly diminishing the credibility of genuine quotes. The commenter calling himself 'Phony?' uses a genuine quote to support the absurd 'Iamthe witness' quote, without bothering to offer any actual argument, as if to say, surely anyone who says this would also say that, which is nonsense. All the quotes in the Indybay collection appear to me to be genuine.
"The masses will lick our feet"…..no wonder they were offended to see a photo of the bottom of Obama's shoes as he was talking on the phone to them LOLOLOL ooooh and a black man to "boot!" What a killer! "