"The mindset and basic values of Israeli Jewish society and Palestinian Muslim society are so different and mutually exclusive as to render a vision of binational statehood tenable only in the most disconnected and unrealistic of minds. The value placed on human life and the rule of (secular) law is completely different–as exhibited, in Israel itself, in the vast hiatus between Jewish and Arab perpetration of crimes and lethal road traffic violations. Arabs, to put it simply, proportionally commit far more crimes (and not only ones connected to property) and commit far more lethal traffic violations than do Jews. In large measure, this is a function of different value systems (such as the respect accorded to human life and the rule of law)."
From Israeli historian Benny Morris's new book, One State, Two States: Resolving the Israel/Palestine Conflict, published by Yale University Press. p. 187. I'll tell you how it ends when I finish the book.
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{ 36 comments }
Very silent here. Are all commentators celebrating the 1st of May?
p. 187. I'll tell you how it ends when I finish the book
Good for us. This lonely commentator would also appreciate updates from the Queen of Sheba. At the latest when the study is published. Maybe more specifics concerning the EU program that funds the study. The EU is such a leviathan, so it usually isn't that easy to find the program that might fit the profile.
I return to my "controversial" German publication now. Occasionally I'll check if a lonely commentator has returned.
maybe witty got tired of being referred to as 'witless'… the place is less interesting without him and the many others who post here with divergent views…
as for the yale press book quote, i suppose they say this about blacks verses whites too, without considering the cultural backdrop that feeds it… why is it we hear the label 'anti-semite' regularly, but islamophobe, or anti-arab never gets used? it could be applied here..
maybe witty got tired of being referred to as 'witless'… the place is less interesting without him and the many others who post here with divergent views…
Hi, Three Dots, I don't support a-Richard-Witty-obsession. Although I often test or even verbally attack him myself.
In a way, no matter how angry he sometimes makes me, I guess I would miss him here. Would he be Phil's friend if he was completely unlikeable?
Time will tell, who is correct: Richard the worrier, or Phil the "cockeyed optimist". I hope Phil is right and the outcome will please Richard beyond his wildest hopes. …
I hope everybody else is well, and the weather was superb. Really odd this total silence here.
Morris's expressly racist book published by Yale U Press. Then why is David Duke off limits?
I think this Morris fellow is on to something. A cross-cultural study for the purpose of creating a 'humanity index', taking into consideration the differences in traffic laws, enforcement, the registration of automobiles per houshold, etc. could produce some interesting data. I have recently returned from Russia, and their driving habits would certainly confirm their inherant lack of humanity. In the European scheme of things I would expect that the Germans are the most humane, based on the Morris-Traffic Violation Scale (or MTVS), followed by the Belgians, Dutch, etc. until we reach the likes of the Italians, Russians, and other underachievers on the MTVS. It goes without saying that the Israelis would be at the head of the class on the MTVS, but competition for a distant second may prove interesting.
Where is the Palestinian Jackie Stewart?
Morris, like Israel, has turned into a reactionary cunt. Period. Next, 'The Bell Curve', applied to I-P.
Some Jews value life more than anyone else, but only if it is Jewish life.
DWA, who knew! But then Mr. Morris had an op-ed piece in the Times that stated Israel might have to preemptively attack Iran. with nukes! No doubt they would be forced to to do because Israel values life more than Iran. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Charles Murray already had a piece in Commentary along the lines except that it was Jews vs all others.
meant as reply to Gert
Next, 'The Bell Curve', applied to I-P. Gert, you have missed the point, perhaps blinded by your own ideological prejudices. The Bell Curve you refer to was derived from the collection of data, and that data was collected scientifically, and then the data was analyzed scientifically by scientists wearing lab coats and operating slide rules. So it's all on the up and up.
I guess Italians will never rise high in the 'civilization' scales either based on their self-confessed driving habits. Interesting to find out what lessons in morality look like from someone with an "apocalyptic" mindset.
Jewish Life Versus Non-Jewish Life at Interfaith Dialogue
Charedi Rabbis Rush To Disavow Anti-Gentile Book
Gentiles Less Human Than Jews
Murdered by fellow Palestinians Just like the Palestinians do to any who stick out as better.
If roles were reversed and Israelis lived under an Israeli-style Palestinian occupation and all the glorious benefits that come with it while squeezed into 20 percent of the territory, they'd still be involved in proportionally fewer traffic accidents and commit fewer crimes? Is that what Morris is saying?
"Murdered by fellow Palestinians Just like the Palestinians do to any who stick out as better" Jacobwolfen, you do Zionism proud! You exemplify the best and most attractive qualities of Zionism, the qualities which have caused Jewish youth in America to become its fanatic adherents. The qualities that make the word Zionism a chancre in the mouth of decent human beings all over the world. But, hey, if you get a nice ziocaine rush out of appearing like an idiotic bigot, go right ahead. I'm sure hundreds of people will be here to support you, any minute now.
"I guess Italians will never rise high in the 'civilization' scales either based on their self-confessed driving habits" Italians make Ducatis. For that, they are forgiven everything and anything.
Why don't you read the whole book and comment on what you appreciate and what you criticize. A review.
What is the point of mentioning Yale Press? Are you trying to organize a boycott?
RWitty, I was unable to attend Finkelstein's conference, and the new and improved comments format have discouraged me from digging into the past. How did things go?
RE: "Arabs, to put it simply, proportionally commit far more crimes (and not only ones connected to property) and commit far more lethal traffic violations than do Jews." SEE: " Lieberman is not the issue", Mondoweiss, 03/18/09 (EXCERPT) Unfortunately, for the incoming Netanyahu administration, their problems don't end with Lieberman. Just yesterday it came to light that incoming national security adviser, Uzi Arad, has been barred from entering the US for the past two years because of the AIPAC espionage case. Today, Paul Woodward has a great post on Arad and the views he will be providing to Netanyahu. Woodward has dug up this interview that Arad did the the Israeli settler news service Arutz Sheva where he gave his thoughts on the two-state solution: "I don’t think that one has to go that far because at the end of the day, I don’t think the majority of Israelis want to see themselves responsible for the Palestinians. We do not want to control the Palestinian population. It’s unnecessary. What we do want is to care for our borders, for the Jewish settlements and for areas which are unpopulated and to have our security interests served well. But also to take under our responsibility these populations which, believe me, are not the most productive on earth, would become a burden. We want to relieve ourselves of the burden of the Palestinian populations – not territories. It is territory we want to preserve, but populations we want to rid ourselves of." ENTIRE POST – http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/03/yne...
Sounds like he mainlined Mein Kampfe. Reads just like some of the passages in that book. Only need to substitute Palestinian for Jew.
People like Jacobwolfen have laid down the gauntlet for the real antisemites out there. How are the real antisemites supposed to compete with bigotry like that? It's almost as if people like Jacobwolfen are making the case for them.
RE: "Arabs, to put it simply, proportionally commit far more crimes (and not only ones connected to property) and commit far more lethal traffic violations than do Jews." MY COMMENT: What about women drivers? They're the WORST! (LOL)
No.
Surely similar claims can be made of Jews (with their moral particularism and ethnocentrism) co-existing with Christians (who preach moral universalism), or about blacks and whites co-existing within the same nation. How is what Morris says any different?
Do orthodox Jews drive better that reform Jews?
No wishy washy stuff from Witty about his fellow Jew, who he happens to agree with. Otherwise he would have bored us to death. Instead he seems to be asking us to give Morris the benefit of the doubt. Very important to know that Yale published the book. Now, someone send a memo to David Duke and tell him, finally a prestigious university is willing to publish racist hate speech.
I believe that Yale U Press must be brought to account for publishing this overtly racist statement. This is pure racism, of the familiar colonialist nature, and if it was written about any other group of people it would never have been published. WRITE TO YALE UNIVERSITY PRESS !
There's always two parts to consider with such claims: "is it true" and "so?". We automatically want to pounce on the first part but the really nasty assumption is in the second part, namely that 'lesser' or 'other' people should be excluded. I disagree with that. But then the first claim is no longer a reason not to go ahead. Obviously the Palestinians come from a backward culture, since it's a prison camp culture with malicious wardens. Prison culture is not pretty. People are mean to each other. You look at the life of a family and life is hard on them and they make it even harder. The wardens see all that and it only confirms what they thought all along. Some call this a self fulfilling prophecy. I believe that this culture can be improved a lot by taking them out of the prison. Will the Palestinians then suddenly start churning out great physicists and will the country then become a little paradise? That's not the way it works. But it's not necessary to be a cultural relativist in order to believe people from different cultures can live together in the same country. In fact I think it would be really cool if Palestinians and Jews could make things work together. They would sort of become moral world leaders wouldn't they. Which is nice.
"In fact I think it would be really cool if Palestinians and Jews could make things work together. They would sort of become moral world leaders wouldn't they." Equicalency canard, the clever inversion of No.4, "The Whole World Sucks". If it's done unconsciously, that's even better, when Hasbara reaches the subliminal level, even in anti-Zionists. What the "Palestinians" have in common with each other politically is being oppressed and occupied by the Israelis. And on that basis they can form a state? But thatr's beside the point. Asking the "Palestinians" (an ancient word meaning (those who live under the Israelis) to "make things woirk together" with the Israelis is like asking a mouse to "work together" with a cat.
That's true, isn't it. Israeli intransigence is the main imetus for the Palestinian State. Which may be the way it has to be, but should not be forgotten.
I wouldn't call a two-state solution 'making things work together' , although it could improve things. Let's put it this way. After you have forced the Israeli Jews, yelling and screaming, into getting rid of the idea of a jewish state, they 'll find that there are some very nice sides to the new situation. And yes, it's called growing up.
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