Comments on: ZOA blasts AIPAC over call for ‘viable Palestinian state’

By: us patriot

us patriot — Fri, 08 May 2009 23:19:23 +0000

nice, how they use the NAZI Nuremberg race laws to define themselves as a world nation loyal to tiny Israel uber alles.

By: RowanBerkeley

RowanBerkeley — Fri, 08 May 2009 06:22:45 +0000

I always found Alexander Dugin's reflections on this fascinating, but they tend to disappear from the web. There is an archive copy of his "The Jews & Eurasia" here: " target="_blank">http://web.archive.org/web/20030211055026/utenti....

By: Dick

Dick — Fri, 08 May 2009 03:09:39 +0000

So syvanen's 15% of population being Russian is about right. " target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Isra...

By: GRM

GRM — Fri, 08 May 2009 03:00:08 +0000

Russia has 11 times zones, just to nitpick.

By: MRW

MRW — Fri, 08 May 2009 02:33:27 +0000

I think I've solved the mystery. 80% of all immigration to Israel has been Russian between 1989 and 2004. Total Immigration: 1,180,870 Immigration from the Former Soviet Union: 962,458 " target="_blank">http://www.moia.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/19A1D970-2EE9...

By: MRW

MRW — Fri, 08 May 2009 02:24:16 +0000

From "A Wave of Jews Returning to Russia" By Anatoly Medetsky, Staff Writer" (the link is old. It just says moscowtimes.ru) In the first wave, 200,000 Jews left the Soviet Union in the 1970s. The second wave, which coincided with perestroika in 1986, brought 800,000 more Soviet Jews. Under the Law of Return, anyone having at least one Jewish grandparent may seek citizenship. Recently, however, Israel has seen its population growth subside, with citizens leaving not only for Russia, but also Europe and the United States. Only 20,000 to 30,000 immigrants entered Israel from 2001 to 2003, which was for the first time less than the outflow, Gorin said, citing the study. According to the Israeli Embassy in Moscow, up to 100,000 Jews left Russia annually in the 1990s; last year [2003] the number was down to 10,000.

By: Dick

Dick — Fri, 08 May 2009 02:04:55 +0000

'I read an English Israeli document that said 80% of Israel is now Russian.' I have trouble with 80% Russian too. I'd like to see some figures if anyone has them. I actually thought a good portion of the settlers were American.

By: MRW

MRW — Fri, 08 May 2009 01:50:43 +0000

Syvanen, I said I read an Israeli doc that had this info in it. I also said I couldn't vouch for it, neither could I remember what the doc was nor where to locate it.

By: syvanen

syvanen — Fri, 08 May 2009 01:46:30 +0000

MRW wrote: I read an English Israeli document that said 80% of Israel is now Russian. I sometimes thought that you go over the top but this statement is pure nonsense. It is politcal garbage. It probably is true that many of the Sabra had Russian ancetors, but the current Russian immigrant group (post Jackson-Vanek) make up about only 15%. The two groups are completely different.

By: MRW

MRW — Fri, 08 May 2009 01:19:09 +0000

Someone needs to address the fact that Israel is now a Russian colony, and not a particularly high-minded one either. In the late 80s the US agreed to bankroll getting Russian Jews out of the USSR as glasnost played out. The Russians that were chosen were overjoied but not smart enough to figure out they were going to Israel for good, not the USA, their preferred destination. Furthermore, when they got to Israel, they were shuffled off into dusty settlements. Not happy campers. Then in the 90s, when the Israeli leaders realized they could up their population and get more dough from us for it, they let in Russians who weren't Jewish. Avrum Burg had a hand in that legislation. I read an English Israeli document that said 80% of Israel is now Russian. I dont remember what it was, and cant find it. I remember being shocked. And I cant vouch for that figure. The same document said that 20% of the Israeli population earns less tan $700/month; under the poverty line. (Obviously, our money didn’t go to help those people.) But the fact that Russian émigrés now constitute a majority in Israel completely changes the character of what we are dealing with. Americans were always lousy at assessing the Russians. They compare to them to themselves. Just think of the effete complaints about Putin and there you have it. Russia has nine time zones. It is as wide as the distance from Oregon to Poland. And it is 'oriental' in character. It is not European. You can't compare Russians to Americans. You have to compare them to the Europeans, then the Europeans to the Americans. Putin reigned over a mix of people so diverse that Americans can't even grasp the inherent problems, nor the tribal histories, and centuries of different wars, much less know their histories. Americans only learn one language in school; a severe handicap, so they get translations upon translations. Russians are not a one-flavor soup, but they grow up with one thing that unites them, another thing Americans have no grasp of: this thing about Mother Russia. It’s something that ties them heart-to-heart, however tenuous. It’s what got them through fighting the Nazis in WWII with no socks in their shoes across the frozen land in the dead of winter. Tens upon tens of millions died. But they soldiered on. This Russian character is now in Israel. It’s the undercurrent. It’s the fuck-you of the settlers. It’s the refusal to even acknowledge that a Palestinian can be a human. It’s their industriousness, and their coarseness. And their poster child is Avigdor Lieberman, not the thoughtful Uri Avnery. The refined Russian Jews did not wind up in Israel by choice once glasnost started. They sought Europe. But everyone still thinks of Israel as it was in 1967, a bunch of displaced Ashkenazim whose two or three generations before WWII were spent in Europe. It’s not. It’s a Russian colony. And for those who live in NYC, think Little Odessa. We have to start dealing with Israel the way Putin dealt with Russia once he got the presidency. Tough. Brusque. This peace talk bullshit coming out of Netanyahu and Peres’ mouths is coming from a pitcher they’re pouring down our backs. And it is contemptuous of us. Phil’s right when he writes “no one wants to alienate Obama.” it’s not that they give a damn about Obama, they dont, but they understand power and who’s got it. And they know one thing, plain old Americans are loathe to exercise their power, so they are going to concentrate on the one spot, the one place, the one person who’s got it. The fact that Americans are waking up, as the AIPAC E.D. noticed, puts a wrinkle into the plan to envelop the President exclusively. Americans need to be a lot brusquer in their condemnation of Israel. It will work.