Comments on: Protesters aren’t about ending the Islamic Revolution, they’re about getting back to it http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 12:14:34 +0000 hourly 1 By: Nathanael http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90079 Nathanael Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:31:14 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90079 Hard evidence of election theft: (1) Election results were reported before the ballots could possibly be counted. (2) Ballot boxes grabbed from precincts and removed before they could be counted locally. (3) Greater than 100% turnout is reported in several districts. (4) Identical percentages reported for Ahmadinejad across the country, including districts such as Balochistan and Kurdistan where he has little or no support. (5) Fewer voters reported for Karroubi (left-wing candidate) than the members of his *campaign machine* (6) Government refuses to show ballot lists to Rezaee (right-wing candidate) who has therefore demanded a new election as well. (7) Fatwa authorizing election officials to falsify vote counts. You can find firsthand reports of all of these independently, and they're all sourced from different people with different agendas. Really, it's absolutely 100% certain the election results were fraudulent -- made up out of the whole cloth and not very competently. The "independent, objective poll" was conducted prior to the *election campaign* -- widely perceived to have boosted Moussavi a lot -- and it showed over 50% undecided. It doesn't provide any evidence of an Ahmedinajad landslice, which would have required a huge majority of the undecideds to support him, contrary to all evidence from the campaign. Hard evidence of election theft: (1) Election results were reported before the ballots could possibly be counted. (2) Ballot boxes grabbed from precincts and removed before they could be counted locally. (3) Greater than 100% turnout is reported in several districts. (4) Identical percentages reported for Ahmadinejad across the country, including districts such as Balochistan and Kurdistan where he has little or no support. (5) Fewer voters reported for Karroubi (left-wing candidate) than the members of his *campaign machine* (6) Government refuses to show ballot lists to Rezaee (right-wing candidate) who has therefore demanded a new election as well. (7) Fatwa authorizing election officials to falsify vote counts. You can find firsthand reports of all of these independently, and they're all sourced from different people with different agendas. Really, it's absolutely 100% certain the election results were fraudulent — made up out of the whole cloth and not very competently. The "independent, objective poll" was conducted prior to the *election campaign* — widely perceived to have boosted Moussavi a lot — and it showed over 50% undecided. It doesn't provide any evidence of an Ahmedinajad landslice, which would have required a huge majority of the undecideds to support him, contrary to all evidence from the campaign.

]]> By: Donna Trump http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90067 Donna Trump Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:38:07 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90067 What, exactly, is "moving" about that video? Since when is 'Allah-hu Akbar' some kind of code for progressive democratization? Sounds more like desparation, fear and fanaticism to me. If a Democrat were to win a disputed election in the USA, and his (or her) opponents responded by praying loudly to Jesus from their rooftops, would you call that 'moving'? I'd call it creepy and scary. What, exactly, is "moving" about that video? Since when is 'Allah-hu Akbar' some kind of code for progressive democratization? Sounds more like desparation, fear and fanaticism to me. If a Democrat were to win a disputed election in the USA, and his (or her) opponents responded by praying loudly to Jesus from their rooftops, would you call that 'moving'? I'd call it creepy and scary.

]]> By: Peaceful_Idiot http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90106 Peaceful_Idiot Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:27:47 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90106 <blockquote> When hundreds of thousands come out into the streets braving police batons and possibly being shot, it is far beyond anything that a CIA can organize. </blockquote> Hi. So how do you explain the color revolutions in Eastern Europe? It is more than just the CIA too, NGOs like the CIA front group The National Endowment for Democracy play important roles. Perhaps you should do some reading before you let your emotions get the best of you?

When hundreds of thousands come out into the streets braving police batons and possibly being shot, it is far beyond anything that a CIA can organize.

Hi. So how do you explain the color revolutions in Eastern Europe? It is more than just the CIA too, NGOs like the CIA front group The National Endowment for Democracy play important roles. Perhaps you should do some reading before you let your emotions get the best of you?

]]> By: Shafiq http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90098 Shafiq Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:52:45 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90098 I'm trying to be balanced and weigh up both sides of the argument. It's just that in my eyes the scale is tipped in favour of the opposition I'm trying to be balanced and weigh up both sides of the argument. It's just that in my eyes the scale is tipped in favour of the opposition

]]> By: Shafiq http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90078 Shafiq Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:48:50 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90078 Well, the fact that the voter turnout was so high in comparison to the previous election (the reason Ahmedinejad won last time was because the 'moderate' voters stayed away); the fact that Ahmedinejad polled more votes in this election than the previous one; and the fact that the votes were counted so quickly do a lot to raise suspicion. Well, the fact that the voter turnout was so high in comparison to the previous election (the reason Ahmedinejad won last time was because the 'moderate' voters stayed away); the fact that Ahmedinejad polled more votes in this election than the previous one; and the fact that the votes were counted so quickly do a lot to raise suspicion.

]]> By: bar_kochba132 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90066 bar_kochba132 Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:55:21 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90066 The headline of this posting reminds me of what the Trotskyites used to say: "Stalin has betrayed the Revolution, we have to get back to the ideals of the Revolution as Lenin expressed them". Not realizing that the whole thing is rotten. The headline of this posting reminds me of what the Trotskyites used to say: "Stalin has betrayed the Revolution, we have to get back to the ideals of the Revolution as Lenin expressed them". Not realizing that the whole thing is rotten.

]]> By: Outsider http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90104 Outsider Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:56:52 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90104 Not surprising at all - for me! Because I have to live with those differences daily and get along with them. But I realize that there are lots of people (and it seems to me also in the discussion here, but I don't like to point my finger at names) who seem to expect one simple clear-cut answer to the question: What do the Iranians want? Funny, I just realize that I obviously adopted the Iranian way of saying things indirectly, rather not critizising someone directly if that's possible. At least when writing on Iranian events. Not surprising at all – for me! Because I have to live with those differences daily and get along with them. But I realize that there are lots of people (and it seems to me also in the discussion here, but I don't like to point my finger at names) who seem to expect one simple clear-cut answer to the question: What do the Iranians want? Funny, I just realize that I obviously adopted the Iranian way of saying things indirectly, rather not critizising someone directly if that's possible. At least when writing on Iranian events.

]]> By: Saleema http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90105 Saleema Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:52:58 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90105 You have some good points, but don't underestimate the CIA. Remember, they set up the Taliban and defeated the Russian giant? I'm not saying that this is the case here but it is a possibility. I still don't know what to think. I don't know much about internal Irani politics so I will wait to form an opinion and take a stand on the issue either way until I pick up more reading material. You have some good points, but don't underestimate the CIA. Remember, they set up the Taliban and defeated the Russian giant? I'm not saying that this is the case here but it is a possibility. I still don't know what to think. I don't know much about internal Irani politics so I will wait to form an opinion and take a stand on the issue either way until I pick up more reading material.

]]> By: Marion http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90065 Marion Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:41:14 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90065 The CIA can certainly help initiate it and help keep it going..... The CIA can certainly help initiate it and help keep it going…..

]]> By: Marion http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html/comment-page-1#comment-90077 Marion Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:38:47 +0000 http://d1825805.u264.foliopress.net/2009/06/ali-gharib-writesthe-regime-is-not-going-to-collapse-and-thats-not-the-goal-of-any-of-those-marching-tehrans-streetsthis-i.html#comment-90077 Criag, More counterfacts to your rash conclusion: Western Misconceptions Meet Iranian Reality <a href="http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20090615_western_misconceptions_meet_iranian_reality" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20090615_western_m...</a rel="nofollow">" target="_blank">http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20090615_western_m...</a></a> Criag, More counterfacts to your rash conclusion: Western Misconceptions Meet Iranian Reality http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20090615_western_m...

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