Censored by the Huffington Post and Imprisoned By The Past: Why I Made ‘Feeling the Hate in Jerusalem’

By Max Blumenthal

On Wednesday, I walked around central Jerusalem with my friend, Joseph Dana, an Israel peace activist who has lived in the country for three years. We interviewed young people on camera about the speech President Barack Obama planned to deliver to the Muslim world the following day in Cairo. Though our questions were not provocative at all – we simply asked, “What do you think of Obama’s speech” – the responses our interview subjects offered comprised some of the most shocking comments I have ever recorded on camera. They were racist, hateful, and incredibly ignorant, and were mostly couched within a Zionist context – “this is our land, Obama!” The following day, we edited an hour of interviews into a 3:30 minute video package and released it on Mondoweiss and on the Huffington Post.

Within a few hours, I received an email from a Huffington Post administrator informing me he had scrubbed my video from the site. “I don't see that it has any real news value,” the administrator told me. “For me it only proves that one can find drunk people willing to say just about anything.  Especially drunk, moronic people.” For the first time, the premier clearinghouse for online news and opinions had suppressed one of my posts. 

Other bloggers and commenters criticized the video on similar grounds. Their complaints generally went like this: In order to advance an agenda, Max Blumenthal exploited the wild remarks of a bunch of drunk Jewish frat-boys innocently showing off in front of their friends. The footage contained in his video in no way reflects what the Israeli public thinks. If Max went to a bar in any college town in the United States he would find the same level of ignorance and racism. Ron Kampeas at the JTA has written that I need “to grow up and put [my talents] to good use.” (While Kampeas praised some of my other video reports exposing right-wing Christians, this latest video revealing the extremism of some Israeli and American Jews seemed to hit too close to home.) 

The criticism of my video raised an interesting journalistic issue: Is reporting any less credible when interview subjects are drinking alcohol? Of course not. Journalists interview people at bars all the time, especially in broadcast packages. Beer does not, to my knowledge, contain a special drug that immediately infects drinkers with white supremacist sentiments, violent rhetoric, and anti-democratic tendencies. I get drunk as much as any social drinker and I have never called for “white power” or declared, “fuck the niggers!” as one of my interviewees did. No amount of alcohol could make me express opinions that were not authentically mine. If anything, alcohol is a crude form of truth serum that lubricates the release of closely held opinions and encourages confessional talk. 

The notion that the racist diatribes in my video emerged spontaneously from a beery void is a delusion, but for some, it is a necessary one. It allows them to erect a psychological barrier against acknowledging the painful consequences of prolonged Zionist indoctrination. And it enables them to dismiss the disturbing spectacle of young Jews behaving like fascist soccer hooligans in the heart of the capitol of Israel and the spiritual home of the Jewish people. 

The people in my video were not white trash, nor were they the “extreme right-wing fringe” as some bloggers have called them. They were the college-educated sons and daughters of middle and upper class American Jews from cosmopolitan metropolises and genteel suburbs. Some had come to Israel on vacation, some had made aliyah, and some told me they were planning to move to Israel in the near future. Many were dual citizens of America and Israel. They may have behaved in a moronic way, but they will not grow up to toil in the custodial arts. Many of these kids will move into white-collar jobs and use their influence to advance Israeli initiatives. Programs like Birthright Israel  — a few of those in my video were on Birthright tours — exist for the exclusive purpose of indoctrinating American Jews into unyielding, unthinking supporters of Israel. Thus the kids in my video represent at least one aspect of the Zionist project’s future base of political sustenance.

I do not and have never claimed that the characters that appeared in my video were representative of general public opinion in Israel. They reflect only a slice of reality, which is reality nonetheless. On the other hand, a new Yedioth Aronoth poll finds a vast majority of the Israeli public holds a negative opinion of Obama and believes he is biased toward the Palestinians. A top minister in Israel’s government has compared Obama to Pharaoh, claiming his call for a settlement freeze is like casting Jewish children into the river. A group of rightists have launched a campaign against “the anti-Semitic Obama,” apparently convinced they can make inroads with the general public. 

Behind the Israeli view of Obama lies a climate of extremism that exploded into the open when the country attacked Gaza. Today, extremist sentiment hovers well above the surface. A groundbreaking study of Israeli attitudes published in the wake of the Gaza war by the Tel Aviv University political psychologist Daniel Bar-Tal, who I recently interviewed, found that “Israeli Jews' consciousness is characterized by a sense of victimization, a siege mentality, blind patriotism, belligerence, self-righteousness, dehumanization of the Palestinians and insensitivity to their suffering.” Bar-Tal commented to me that the army is the primary vehicle for stoking the nationalism of young Israelis. “Some countries are states without armies,” he said. “But Israel today is an army without a state. There is no civilian institution capable of restraining the army’s influence.” 

In an interview with me two days ago, the famed Israeli author David Grossman echoed Bar-Tal’s findings, remarking, “The country is trapped in one legitimate narrative: that of the government, which is of paranoia, and every event serves this narrative. Those events that don’t are simply overlooked.”

I have been in Israel for over a month; almost every day I hear expressions of paranoia about Arabs, historical delusions, and the constant refrain that “the world is against us.” I hear this even from some close friends — young, cosmopolitan Israelis living the good life in the so-called “bubble city” of Tel Aviv. Last week, a friend I play basketball with in a working class suburb of Tel Aviv (he is a high-tech worker from a fifth generation Israeli family) calmly informed me while we sat in the shade by the court: “I’m a Zionist, so of course I prefer the bloodshed on the other side.” While sitting at a bar with an elegant and otherwise charming young woman, she described to me while sipping a mixed drink how she arbitrarily shot at Arabs while serving in the army because “they want to come and steal my house.” On a leafy Tel Aviv street, a friend of a friend who splits time between spinning at local hip-hop clubs and patrolling the streets of Gaza City told me if Israel has to kill 800 Palestinians to save one Israeli Jew, then so be it. “If we wanted to, we could completely wipe Gaza out,” he said. “But we don’t because the IDF is pure.” 

Since Gaza, vocal opponents of the Occupation have found themselves increasingly marginalized and are hounded by the authorities (see the New Profile raid, Ezra Nawi, Sami Jubreir, and on and on). Meanwhile, Avigdor Lieberman and his Yisrael Beiteynu party’s unapologetically racist campaign has taken the form of a stream of bills working through the Knesset that would criminalize observance of the Palestinian Nakbah, ban public discussion of a bi-national state, and allow towns to ban people from entering their limits who do not subscribe to Zionist ideals. The bills keep coming like a flood; already, the Nakbah ban has passed a committee vote. 

A straight line can be drawn from the rhetoric depicted in my video to the rise of Lieberman, a proto-fascist who draws a startling degree of political strength from Israel’s youth by channeling their innermost fears and resentments. In fact, the author of the Nakbah ban is a 28-year-old named Alex Miller – the youngest ever member of the Knesset and the chairman of Beiteynu’s youth wing. In an interview, Miller told me he introduced the bill simply because, “the Israeli public believes in loyalty.” He added, “Since the founding of our party we have grown in strength. We have never changed our platform and we are seeing increasing support from the public.”

Despite the Huffington Post’s rejection of my video report, it has exploded across the blogosphere. Even the rapper 50 Cent posted it prominently on his official website. It two days it has garnered 100,000 views. I hope those who have watched it, especially those predisposed to dismiss it as anti-Israel propaganda or shock video with “no news value,” will at least ask how vitriolic levels of racism are able to flow through the streets of Jerusalem like sewage, why the grandsons of Holocaust survivors feel compelled to offer the Shoah as justification to behave like fascist street thugs, and how the sons and daughters of successful Jewish American families casually merged Zionist cant with crude white supremacism. The willful avoidance of these painful questions by self-proclaimed supporters of Israel is setting the stage for the complete delegitimization of the country they claim to love. As Obama said, “any world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will inevitably fail. So whatever we think of the past, we must not be prisoners of it.” 

About Max Blumenthal

Max Blumenthal is an award-winning journalist and bestselling author.
Posted in Beyondoweiss, Israel/Palestine

{ 330 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. Shirin says:

    1. Herzl was not interested in a Jewish homeland, he was interested in a Jewish state – significantly different. 2. The problem the Palestinians had was not with a large Jewish influx, it was with having their homeland taken over by a group of colonists whose agenda was exclusionary of the native inhabitants. The problem was with the displacement that was necessary to the achievement of the Zionists' goals. The problem was with the increasing economic exclusion by the Zionists. If Zionism had merely meant a large influx of Jews very few Palestinians would have had a problem with it. 3. Yes, the Zionists were uninterested in taking the rights and desires of the native non-Jewish Palestinians into consideration. The Zionists, beginning with Herzl, also recognized that wherever they created their Jewish state they would have to ethnically cleanse the area of its non-Jewish inhabitants. They underestimated just how easy that would be. It never occurred to them that the people who had centuries of history in a land might feel an attachment to it that equaled or even exceeded that of new immigrants.

  2. Shirin says:

    Historical connection does not equal entitlement.

  3. Shirin says:

    No, ubiquitous does not mean universal. It means something else. Look it up. And please stop conflating homeland with state. Not the same thing at all. And on what basis do you assert that Muslims do not recognize any of Moses' words?

  4. Saleema says:

    Why irises? Why not roses? Me thinks you dont' love the Israelis too much.

  5. Shirin says:

    Either way the whole argument is irrelevant. None of it, if true, constitutes an entitlement to the place.

  6. Holly says:

    Great post Max, I wrote about your video and posted this article as a link on my blog. I felt it was an important and interesting thing to address things. A job well done! I will add you to my blog roll! :)

  7. Shirin says:

    You mean the bomb plot that occurred as a result of incitement by the FBI agent who infiltrated a rather pathetic group of mentally unbalanced individuals?

  8. Shirin says:

    "Violence against Jews is a real problem across the US and Europe. " Violence against Jews is actually rare. Violence against Muslims, Arabs, and people of "Middle Eastern appearance" is a far, far greater problem.

  9. carnas says:

    Big deal – Jews can be racist. Moron, there's nothing new about that. You happen to be surprised – whoop-de-doo. Your assumption that these Jews are more important than "some random hillbilly" reflects your own ridiculous stereotypes and nothing else.

  10. Saleema says:

    Hey Witty, Kind of like how you said the Quran says the Jews are children of pigs and monkeys? You never came back and tell me exactly where it ws that you read it? Please give me the chapter anf verse number so that I can see it for myself. And since when were you ever a fan of Phil's brand?You are the ones who keeps insinuating that his journalism isn't balanced.

  11. Saleema says:

    If they are all 18 and older then they don't need a waiver from parents. In fact, if they are 15 and older and agreed to be interviewed then they don't need a waiver. Sorry.

  12. Strahl says:

    What does it have to do with stereotypes? The point is how one person's opinion weighs versus anothers. When you juxtapose those drunk idiotic yuppie American Jews next to the studies done on Israeli Jews and the Birthright program and the Hasbara Handbook passed out to Jewish students from Jewish college groups and blah blah, it builds context. When you look into the history of the conflict it builds context. When you take into account the comments and actions by the IDF – those T-Shirts – the typical comments about the Palestinians that most Israeli Jews spew, etc. Yea, all this builds context. So no, it's not the same as some random hillbilly. Some random hillbilly has no political clout. His comments can be dismissed easily. The way we react to one group is different than how we react to another – especially in the US. We make fun of some groups much more easily and without second though. Wheras when it comes to Jews or Blacks, it's much more taboo. Similarly, if we're only presented positive imagery of Jews and Jewish Israelis then of course, when they turn out to be scum (not all) it's going to have more impact then when some who we see being scum (racist hillbillies) regularly is being scum lately. Not the same. But it's a superficial truth to say : "Yea, everyone is racist. Yea Jews can be racist, big deal." The point is not simply the fact that they are racist. The point is that they are racist and no one wants to deal with that. No one wants to talk about it. No one wants to consider this fact, when thinking about the conflict. Richard Witty is another fascist who lies over and over and spews this exact type of dishonest, superficial rhetoric. Looks like you've taken after him very well.

  13. Strahl says:

    Also need more studies. There are plenty out right now that predictably show how racist Israeli Jews are – colonizer to the colonized mentality at work.

  14. lovelyisraelis says:

    shirin is correct but it's also useful to state that the haggadah edict "next year in jerusalem" was only transformed from a mythic dream to a concrete proposal for immigration in the 19th century. the zionists, in plain English, perverted it for their nazi political ambitions. Small wonder that a variety of jewish ultra-religious sects regard the state of israel as an abomination, profoundly at odds with doctrinaire Judaism, which declares that the jews are fated to wander the earth until the arrival of the messiah. It's important to note that the israelis are lying filth on all counts. They are not loyal to the dictates of their religion, or law or history or anything else other than their unearned sense of superiority and their grotesque lust for power over others.

  15. lovelyisraelis says:

    Basically "We have reached the point where a critical mass of religious soldiers is trying to negotiate with the army about how and for what purpose military force is employed on the battlefield," said Yigal Levy, a political sociologist at the Open University who has written several books on the Israeli army. The new atmosphere was evident in the "excessive force" used in the recent Gaza operation, Dr Levy said. More than 1,300 Palestinians were killed, a majority of them civilians, and thousands were injured as whole neighborhoods of Gaza were leveled. "When soldiers, including secular ones, are imbued with theological ideas, it makes them less sensitive to human rights or the suffering of the other side." The greater role of extremist religious groups in the army came to light last week when it emerged that the army rabbinate had handed out a booklet to soldiers preparing for the recent 22-day Gaza offensive. Yesh Din, an Israeli human rights group, said the material contained messages "bordering on racist incitement against the Palestinian people" and might have encouraged soldiers to ignore international law. The booklet quotes extensively from Shlomo Aviner, a far-right rabbi who heads a religious seminary in the Muslim quarter of East Jerusalem. He compares the Palestinians to the Philistines, the Biblical enemy of the Jews. He advises: "When you show mercy to a cruel enemy, you are being cruel to pure and honest soldiers … This is a war on murderers." He also cites a Biblical ban on "surrendering a single millimeter" of Greater Israel. The booklet was approved by the army's chief rabbi, Brig Gen Avichai Ronsky, who is reportedly determined to improve the army's "combat values" after its failure to crush Hizballah in Lebanon in 2006. ” target=”_blank”>http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10274.sht…

  16. Shirin says:

    If their parents are lawyers, then they know what defamation is, and therefore they know that they don't have a defamation case. Max did not defame anyone, he merely allowed them to hang themselves.

  17. Craig says:

    WOW, 50 cent posted it on his blog! Yeah, that's someone who's on the intellectual high beam. How many people has he shot in violent confrontations? How much crack has he sold? You're a pathetic propagandist Max, nothing more, nothing less (maybe something less) You and Joseph Goebbels would get along well.

  18. Strahl says:

    Bomb threat against Jews? Please give us more data. I don't doubt people hate Jews and want to kill random Jews. But without more data, this is sensationalism. Race attitude polls consistently should it's Arabs that are targeted. Makes sense, considering the tribal Jews in the entertainment industry/MSM/political arena are constantly reinforcing negative Arab and Muslim stereotypes and contributing to the destruction of Palestine/Iraq/Afghanistan/any chance at democracy by supporting dictators and theocrats. The idea that there is a mass hate campaign against Jews is bullshit. It's not Israel that is destroyed – it's Iraq and Afghanistan. It's not Israel that's run by dictators. It's Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc. It's the Arab world that's under attack. It's Islam. Not Judaism. You rarely if ever see a negative portrayal of Jews in mainstream Hollywood movies. When it comes to Arabs and Muslims though, it's aplenty. Jews just have to play the victim to get that Holocaust guilt/intimidation going. It's a tactic. Cry wolf.

  19. Strahl says:

    We've already seen articles in Haaretz/YNet/etc. that prove Israeli Jews are mostly racists anyways. It's funny, that whenever a news item is done on Jews or Israel that is not pretty, Zionists will go bonkers and say that the news item will promote antisemitism. So your interest is not in rehabilitating this part of your society but rather COVERING IT UP. All you can do is reference Nazis, Hitler, Himmler, Holocaust, Jew-hating, Antisemitism and all the usual song and dance. Get over yourself you narcissistic piece of shit.

  20. Strahl says:

    And you're a selfish self-centered sociopath, Craig. Zionists don't want the truth about them coming out so when it does, they cry that people will hate them. Well, it's good that people hate you if you deserve to be hated. And you do. Racist pieces of garbage like you SHOULD be hated and thrown in prison.

  21. RowanBerkeley says:

    I have an excellent full-length documentary on DVD by a lady called Liz Nord, called "Jericho's Echo: Punk Rock in the Holy Land," in which she interviews a lot of these people. The question of how to avoid army service comes up fairly frequently. There is a trailer for the DVD here: ” target=”_blank”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0lx_G–izw

  22. RowanBerkeley says:

    Witty is just a systematically lying fraud. Out of one side of his face he preaches wishy washy sweet reason and conciliation between supposed equal bargaining partners, and out of the other side of it he praises the profundity of Lubavitch-Chabad, which routinely comes up with stuff like this. Manis Friedman is not a fringe rabbi within the Chabad-Lubavitch movement. He was the English translator for the Chabad Rebbe. He said in Moment Magazine's "Ask The Rabbi" column last week: "The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle). I don’t believe in Western morality. Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations who suffer defeat because of a disastrous morality of human invention." Friedman added that he is different from Arab terrorists who have used similar language about killing Jewish civilians. He said: "When they say it, it’s genocide, not self-defense. With them, it’s a religious belief — they need to rid the area of us. We’re not saying that."

  23. Craig says:

    Your lack of logic in the above post PROVES that YOU ARE the self-centered sociopath. You want a person thrown in prison for speaking out against hate? You are one seriously demented white supremacist. Any psychologist can clearly see that you have deep-seeded hatred toward yourself. It probably stems from a feeling of inadequacy that goes back to your childhood. Just admit it, your mommy didn't love you. She probably loved Jews more and you can't stand that. Then again, your racism and hatred could stem from the fact that you're a complete failure in real life, that's why you post so much hatred here. You're a douche. Plain and simple. You have an unhealthy obsession with blaming an entire religion for the your own shortcomings. Go read over your many past posts highlighting your own racism. I find it comical that you link Israelis with "Nazi" when it was Palestinians that allied with the Nazis as well as Saddam Hussein. One last thought to leave you with before you die from a massive heart-attack: The Jews will always control you loser!

  24. Saleema says:

    Craig's postings are becoming more bizzare by the day. I suspect a mental breakdown. :(

  25. Craig says:

    What's wrong, you can't follow? Should I write it in double-speak? Maybe then you can understand? It's clear that Strahl has inadequacy issues.

  26. JES49 says:

    Max, the administrator of the Huffington Post was absolutely correct: there is nothing newsworthy in in your video. Rather it is a collection of foul-mouthed rants by what may or may not be Israelis. And, yes, you do need to grow up as, as Ron Kampeas pointed out. The fact that you obviously – by your own admission – edited out much information about the context and circumstances of your "interviews" (e.g. that these were American students on vacation, that there were a large number here on birthright, that there were dual citizens, that they plan aliya, etc.) places your credibility as a "journalist" in question. Finally, the people in the video are more like you than they are like me. After all, they are young Americans from upper middle-class families who have probably been pampered and spoiled all their lives.

  27. Strahl says:

    Wow! You really are crazy. You associated 50 Cent with Max just because 50 Cent put the video on his website. Then you call Max a propagandist for putting a camera on drunk racist yuppie American Jews. Look propaganda up in a dictionary. The point of this video (as per the logic of plenty of Jewish/Zionist bloggers on HuffPo) is that alcohol unfortunately helps people tell the truth. And these idiots (especially the fat obnoxious J.A.P.) were being honest. Juxtapose this video to the hysteria in the Jewish community when Mel Gibson said Jews cause all wars. To add some context to the racism in the video – and to refute the argument that this video is simply indicative of drunk frat kids – all one has to do is Google: 'racism' 'israeli' 'jews'. Or check my post history since one of your inbred cousins spewed the same argument. YNet/Haaretz/JPost/etc. have all reported on studies conducted on Israeli Jewish youth concerning their attitudes towards Arabs and the Palestinians specifically. Of course Israeli Jews and the Jewish Zionist community is mostly racist. That's what the relationship between colonist and colonized is about. The point of posting this video and publicizing it is to break the facade that Jews are eternal victims and innocent and blah blah. No, Jews can be racist too. In fact, when you consider the extent to which the Jewish Zionist community has become racist and hateful (towards anyone who deviates from the group ideology) it's really astounding. This video does not imply ALL of this but it is part of the larger analysis. Of course you would respond to me in that way you did. Your only conclusion is that people are ENVIOUS of Jews. It's so pathetic and sad that our country is rotting from within because of Zionism and because of the inordinate amount of wealth and power in the hands of such despicable and LAME people. (I don't knock Judaism, just Jewish tribalism/Zionism/Holocaust exploitation and all other related cry-wolf tactics. Oh and of course Craig is a loser who can only assume that people ridicule him because they envy him. He's just another deluded narcissistic clown.)

  28. Strahl says:

    Actually the context is worse. It makes them look even more representative of Jewish youth. All Max needs to do is point to the several studies conducted by Israeli academics and social scientists on the racism in Israeli Jewish youth. The people reacting negatively are Zionists. Of course they won't want to see this type of stuff. HuffPo is Occupied Territory anyways.

  29. yonahred says:

    ubiquitous- everywhere at the same time. the arabs were unwilling to accept that it was to be the jewish homeland thus necessitating a jewish army. homeland plus army yields state. Muslims accept some of Moses' words. pick and choose. have your cake and eat it too. if your self or your family or your people were ever under threat of death you would realize that self preservation takes precedence over "entitlement". to lovely israelis: if you wish to quote neture karta re: the jewish attitude towards passivity and acceptance of the exile, you're going to have to do better than ambiguous quotes and actually look it up in the talmud, so then you can call israelis lying filth. til then you're just an ignorant slob.

  30. JES49 says:

    Except, Strahl, these are apparently not Israelis. So what would be the relevance of studies conducted by Israeli academics on Israeli youth? And here is the point – which I assume you and Max are too obtuse to understand – if Max knew all of these things, then he should have put it in his video "reportage" so that his viewers could have understood where these kids were coming from and judged for themselves. That is journalism. What Maxie has produced is simply a propaganda piece, and when someone points this out to him, he throws a tantrum. Grow up Max. Grow up Strahl.

  31. David says:

    Nope. No country recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital. And Israel's plan was to put to government buildings in East Jerusalem–you can see them now, right on the edge of the Sheikh Jarrah and Waid Joz neighborhoods, still called the government park–in order to claim the land.

  32. LeaNder22 says:

    Citizen, I agree with your response concerning alcohol. But concerning guns I am closer to Mooser. As many Europeans I have US and Australian relatives. One of the US families has a daughter who separated from her husband shortly after giving birth to a daughter. The former husband kept kidnapping the daughter and moved into a different state were he applied for the rights. I don't remember the story correctly it was pretty confusing. But it seems to have happened several times. Finally the woman moved to Germany to get the daughter out of his reach. But at one point her father told me. Really mad. If he ever comes here again to get the girl, I'll shot him. But you can't do that, I answered, in spite of the fact that I had heard only the most horrible tales about him. Sure I can, he replied. I simply cram his pockets full of my wife's jewelery and say he committed burglary, probably angry he didn't find his daughter. Weapons open the road for cold-blooded murder. If I use a gun to stop someone intent on committing an evil deed, is that the same as another using a gun to commit an evil deed? There are many problems in the above scenario. To pick just one, you could mistake the identity for somebody else's in the heat of the moment. …. I not long ago watched a documentary about such events. In one case a man shot at two juvenile burglars. If you aim at the legs, OK, maybe. But in the example the man shot a six-teen year old boy and got away with it. That's self-administered justice. I don't like the death sentence either. Thus I found it very interesting that a few students who looked closer into several cases found quite a few wrongful convictions. The men would be dead now, if they hadn't worked on their cases. Dead is something really final.

  33. LeaNder22 says:

    I don't know much about Crooks and Liars. I haven't watched them for quite some time now. But at one point they published the really startling interview of Yaron Brooks by Fox O'Reilly. I'll never forget that video. It was a straight view into the face of power, the right of the will turned into religion. There was a huge debate on Wikipedia. It wasn't allowed to link to the blog. At one point the ARI communication department interfered, it updated Brooks CV quite professionally and as I suspected interfered with the Wiki article on him. It put up the video for a while, till the noise died down, than it was gone due to copyright they explained in a private message. At one point the link on Crooks and Liars was dead too. A search did bring up zero. The video had gone for good. Down the memory hole.

  34. LeaNder22 says:

    Look Yoni, to deal with this via law annuls responsibility for your words and actions. I think it can be argued, that if someone confronts you with a mike in hand and someone else with a camera. You accept them to record what you say. The setting must make you aware of what is happening. I do not know the specific laws in the US, but I guess this would be a waste of time. But if it happens we can collect money for Max and Joseph.

  35. LeaNder22 says:

    MM, I clearly don't like the way he is treated or assaulted. It is obvious that this is a highly emotional issue for him. I would appreciate if people simply accepted that and either communicate with him or leave him alone. He represents a rather big part of the Jewish community. And he feels what he says, I don't like it, if that is reduced to insults like liar. I may be wrong in some things, but I don't like someone calling me a liar. Why should I like it if it happens to someone else?

  36. LeaNder22 says:

    I can't think of Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will, without thinking of Krakauer's essay: The Mass Ornament: ” target=”_blank”>http://books.google.com/books?id=yIWJASvV9uwC&amp… And sometimes I am asking myself if her use of masses will ever be possible again, I hope not. But is also the most forceful expression what was wrong with the time.

  37. LeaNder22 says:

    Your statistics would only make sense if you could prove that the American(American-Israeli) students have an equally conservative and democrat voting record. I think this may not be the case, but that in fact the group that voted against Obama is much higher represented among students in Israel. There was one student who worked for the Obama campaign though. The the only person who claims these kids are "typical" is Max. And the only facts he has to back this up is his gut. If he truly wants to make a point, he should do a scientific poll, not cherry picked interviews. This is basically a legitimate and repeated argument. I don't really think that Max and Joseph cherry picked as far as completely altering the general atmosphere goes. But it is an issue one no doubt can address. Statistically. How many of the people they interviewed expressed a positive view. Now let's assume that 70% had negative views of Obama. Would it be cherry picking to choose the most representative answers? What if it were 60%? We should ask them.

  38. LeaNder22 says:

    good argument. that's the direction to move. Pure philosemitism is just as wrong as antisemitism. Obviously.

  39. lovelyisraelis says:

    Lets hear what the Palestinians have to say about this video: “Within the Palestinian Community, I can say that these attitudes translate into an evil apartheid system that has destroyed our communities and our livelihoods and that continues to perpetrate enormous violence on defenseless civilians. 80% of Israelis supported the recent bombing of Gaza, and that 80% support comes out of attitudes that are shown in this footage. These attitudes also explain how and why Avigdor Lieberman has risen to power in Israel today.” That's courtesy Mazin Qumsiyeh. With great sadness, he informs us: "Israeli occupation forces murdered our friend Aqel Srur (age 35) yesterday in the nonviolent demonstration in Ni’lin the day after many people showed excitement about Obama’s "peace" speech without carefully analyzing it . " Another day in Palestine. Keep defending this, JES and all the rest of you sub-human vermin who go by the title "Israeli"

  40. LeaNder22 says:

    Remember the one boy complaining that Obama didn't "care about the Jews?" That was the most striking part for me. Pure raw emotion.

  41. Jakeie of Jerusalem says:

    Shlomo Aviner echoes the speeches of H Himmler to his SS troops. Now, that's a good rabbi!

  42. Taylor says:

    Now censored on the Daily Kos! Many conspiracy theorists are suggesting that YouTube is "suppressing" views and blacking out the fact that it is among the hottest video on the blogosphere. Can't suppress it now . . . over 175,000 hits in less than three days. Even Haaretz has the cojones to cover what the US MSM won't: ” target=”_blank”>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090967.html

  43. Pat B says:

    Ah, the problems of dual citizenship. Are they Americans or Israelis? They are both. The one thing they would all agree with is that they are Jews. So what should non-Jewish Americans and non-Jewish Israelis make of them? Wouldn't it be simpler if the USA follows the rout of the Israeli bills in front of their parliment, and make it clear who they are by oath of citizenship even as to the natural born citizens of the respective states?

  44. suzie q says:

    Yes. Let's establish their priorities officially. In the USA, such an oath would merely be a declaration of equal citizenship of all citizens, while in Israel it would mean all swear allegiance to an ethnic state of which the non-Jews would be eternal second class citizens.

  45. Shirin says:

    Where did Max claim the people in the video were "typical" or "representative" of a majority?

  46. Shirin says:

    I agree with you. Either communicate with Richard Witty or ignore him. It is not that difficult to simply skip the comments of a particular person, and all the personal diatribe here is a waste of time and space. It takes the discussion nowhere.

  47. Mooser says:

    Is there a word besides "Zionist" we should be using? Isn't that what they call themselves?

  48. Shirin says:

    Everywhere at the same time is not universal. Please stop substituting the word homeland for state. The Zionist vision was never a homeland, it was always a state. No, the Palestinians (not all Palestinians were or are Arabs) were unwilling to accept that their land would be taken over by a group of foreign colonists who intended to transform it into a state for themselves. The Palestinians reacted exactly as any inhabitants of any land react to having their land taken over by foreign colonists of any kind. "Muslims accept some of Moses' words. pick and choose. What is your authority for this statement? "if your self or your family or your people were ever under threat of death you would realize that self preservation takes precedence over 'entitlement'. What caused you to suddenly abandon your entitlement argument in favour of this self-preservation argument?

  49. JES49 says:

    And yet, presumably, this problem wouldn't arise for, say, a Palestinian born in Dearborn, Michigan? Apparently you aren't up with the news. The Knesset Ministerial Committeee rejected the loyalty oath bill: ” target=”_blank”>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1089462.html

  50. Mooser says:

    Just a simple case of ziocaine intoxication. My Oh My, I have just got to hand it to the Jewish Zionist Parents of America! They really know what they owe to the Goldenah Medina Shouldn't be long before they join Ed in calling for America to become a "Christian State". After all, if Israel, with its slim Jewish majority, can be a "Jewish State" why shouldn't America, with its overwhelming Christian majority, be a "Christian State"?

  51. Mooser says:

    There are a number of bills, some of which are sure to make it through, once again, you are mendacious.

  52. Mooser says:

    Cool! Thanks for the info, Rowan. But one thing troubles me. Is an Israeli punk a nudnick or a hoodnik?

  53. Mooser says:

    "Read their comments"? Not me, Strahl. I'll take your word for it.

  54. Shirin says:

    I don't think it is fair to call Richard Witty a lying fraud. He just sounds to me that he is in a state of confused denial.

  55. Shirin says:

    There is no defamation case here. To defame someone requires first of all that 1) you make a statement about them, 2) the statement is false, 3) the statement is damaging to that person. 1. The damaging statements were made by the youths in the video themselves, not by Max or Joseph. 2. Neither Max nor Joseph made any false statements about any of the youth in the video. 3. The damage, if any, was self-inflicted. Therefore, there is no defamation case.

  56. Dana says:

    Simple, really. The progressive movement and blogosphere has a very large contingent of jewish people, who are drawn to progressive causes. And commendable though it may be, this is where trouble lurks as Phil often documents on this site. The jewish community – young and old alike is deeply split – not so much on the basic I/P issue as progressives all support 2 state "solution" so no division there (except of course on "detail"). The real split goes deep into the core of zionism itself and Americans support for the concept itself and all it entails. OTOH, there's the visible split we see between AIPAC and J Street, so expect HuffPo to fall eventually on J Street side. But that only means that the red lines are being redrawn somewhat. OTOH, there's underlying problem is funding. Jewish people fund and support many progressive causes, web sites and media outlets. In fact, you may – if you do the research – find that Jewish people/foundations/activists dominate funding channels for public service outlets such as NPR and PBS. Which is why many of these are only progressives when it comes to social issues. On foreign policy….well, there's still tacit consultation with what's "good for Israel", not even "what's good for the Jews". The result? hopeless schyzophrenia. Phil said recently – and he'll no doubt reiterate muchly – that the "I'm a zionist" is deeply interwoven with "I hate Arabs". The latter rarely acknowledged, even to oneself. But in the progressive blogoshere you see the undercurrent. It's there, though I'm glad to say, it is slowly (alas, ever so slowly) changing course. Wish I could say I'm optimistic though. As someone who specializes in dangerous undertows what I see now is far from comforting – to anyone. Fluid dynamics and all that…

  57. DJacobus says:

    Broader interviews will be forthcoming from those of us who worked in production over here. You make a lot of good suggestions regarding who else should be interviewed, but keep in mind that there is a system of media control over here. Without an Israeli press credential, most members of the government will not speak to journalists and forget about the army. Journalists here have frequently had their credentials removed because of their reportage and have been kicked out of the country (viz. al Jazeera & Press TV).

  58. LeaNder22 says:

    I am leaning over backwards, Shirin. My emotional response would have looked different. I have mixed feelings concerning the argument. I tried to target his for me central statement: I find it hard to believe that you could not find a single Jew in Jerusalem who supports Obama, or who could talk about this issue with less vitriol. Which ignores what they said about the special setting. It feels this is something he should ask them directly. My position is normalization versus forcing everybody to censor himself. It's not unimportant to watch such trends. And yes, I feel, I've met it before over and over again since 911 in different shades. Maybe not as bluntly as here.

  59. M.M. says:

    Umm, I think I just did "engage the issue," Jay. You simply don't care about hatred and violence against Palestinians–saying you "have a huge problem with Israeli policies" notwithstanding. All you really care about, evidenced by your ACTIONS here, is good Jewish P.R. That's sickening. And that's a widespread characteristic on the Zionist side. You could try to change that, but of course you have different priorities–like trying to chastize and guilt-trip Max for his revealing the inner belly of Jewish fascism.

  60. Shirin says:

    What they did was to expose a segment of (American/American-Israeli) Zionist society that gets no exposure at all, and should. Both Max and Joseph have said they themselves were shocked by what they heard. They have since bothacknowledged that those sick, racist idiots do not represent every Israeli or every American Zionist. However, they DO represent something that the world needs to pay attention to.

  61. yonahred says:

    as far as homeland versus state: the problem with homeland is who rules the homeland? who sets immigration policy for the homeland? in fact the british slowed down immigration to a crawl under pressure of the arab riots of 1936. the closing of the gates of israel meant that those jews who couldn't escape europe were killed. the non state status of the homeland at the time proved to be a fatal flaw.

  62. yonahred says:

    i admit that it's impossible to convince the palestinians that the connection of the jewish people to the land should supercede theirs. there is an intimate connection to the land but that is not the reason why most of the jews made the move. between 1880 and 1920 the masses of jews from eastern europe headed towards places other than israel. from 1920 to 1936 a larger percentage headed towards israel- not because these jews were more intimately connected to the land but because the gates of the world were closed or closing. additional fact: post 1948 masses of jews from middle eastern and north african countries headed to israel, so that today somewhere between 40 and 50% of the country is not european in origin. (i think a perusal of the koran reveals that muslims pick and choose regarding what to include from the torah and what to ignore. do you think this is untrue or are you just being irksome?)

  63. ShubTsaddiq says:

    Don't feel bad, Piney. I left that place a long time ago. The locust mentality runs rampant there.

  64. shmeeloo says:

    Those teenagers weren't just any drunk teenagers. They were all Jewish teens with serious issues. Most American Jews who come to Israel are spiritual seekers, or at least liberal free thinkers looking to make positive changes. The very fact that these guys were in Jerusalem drunk off their rockers indicates just how atypical they are. I'm a Jew living in Jerusalem and I don't know anyone who would talk like that even when drunk. I also know no one who would get that inebriated at all. Those guys could barely stand. And yes they had negative things to say — they obviously feel life is not treating them well. What this shows is that there is a cross section of Jews from dysfunctional families, and a cross section that have addiction and self esteem issues. It also shows Max's creative editing skills.

  65. lovelyisraelis says:

    I see. And the IDF prancing around with T shirts advocating the murder of Arab children and pregnant women—all approved of by their commanders? All a mirage? And the graffiti in hebron and everywhere else: "Arabs to the gas chambers?" All drunken kids from the states? really? Sure. And I'm Bjork.

  66. gypsy klein says:

    Comments by Israeli drunks are crazy and yet if they were sober would they convey less craziness and on a good day …TRUTH… truth…that is a halucination…perhaps, but I would wonder if fuck were their only swear word (and that is a real concern…lack of swear power) thus ignorance reigns…OR fuck is a lack in the culture and or an an extreme opinion as is the occupation of Palestinaians by the Zionists…ramblings

  67. Keith S. says:

    Doesn't "The Daily Show" like to send cameras to watch rednecks – drunk or not – in places like Wasilla makes asses out of themselves? And don't we all laugh at the idiots and see this as proof that the positions they are aligned with are morally bankrupt? Why don't the same people who object to this object to those videos as "cheap shots", etc.? Why are people more protective of the antics of bigots in OTHER countries than they are of the bigots here? Isn't Israel crying out for its own "Borat" treatment? Isn't it time for the sneering, "morally superior" humor to be turned around on them? If racism and bigotry are bad in the USA, then they are bad everywhere. What people resent is the way videos like this compromise the "noble victim" attitude about the people in Israel they hold so dear. But it begs the question of why they identify with, and want to protect, these people more than then their own redneck "fellow Americans"… doesn't it?

  68. Shirin says:

    Why don't you just 1) admit that the Zionists never had a homeland and their goal, that starting with Herzl their goal was a Jewish state, 2) stop using the deceptive term homeland when what you mean is state.

  69. Shirin says:

    You argument, as is the one before, is completely irrelevant. And the fact that you keep switching arguments is rather telling. is it not? And of course the Palestinians were not and are not going to be convinced that a group of foreign colonists have a greater entitlement to their land than they did. Has there ever been in history a land from which the existing native inhabitants recognized superior entitlement to the land on the part of a group of foreign colonists? Under what circumstances do you suppose such an aberration would occur? And contrary to your claim that began this discussion, it was not that the Palestinians, or the "Arabs" as you put it objected to a large influx of Jews. Not at all, in fact. The problem was a large influx of foreign colonists who, it became increasingly clear, intended to take over Palestine and turn it into a state for themselves. In fact, the objections to Zionism began when Palestinians who had lived on and farmed land for generations were expelled from their homes and villages – i.e. ethnically cleansed – by Zionists who had purchased it. So, now you are a Qur'anic scholar?

  70. Shirin says:

    Sorry, I made an error that makes my point 1 confusing. It should read 1) admit that the Zionists never had a homeland as their goal, that starting with Herzl their goal was a Jewish state.

  71. v... says:

    "Forty-eight hours later, the video has gone viral, linked from a hundred political blogs, and is circling the internet at a critical velocity on a mission to humiliate the Jewish people." From Haaretz article: ” target=”_blank”>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090967.html Well, tell me I did not expect this to come from Haaretz (or elsewhere) and I will say I also did not expect the sun to rise in the morning. There is NO WAY you can remove Israel from the mooring of a vicious, murderous colonial enterprise. No matter how hard you try, you cannot pin this on the entire Jewish population for the purpose of "humiliation" because we do not own this debacle, the majority are not moving in this direction – we are moving away from this abomination. Many would rather do their aliyah in an asshole than there. Now, you can talk about the differences between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem till you are blue in the face, and I can recite how Selma Alabama is different from New York. However, in the process no one would excuse racist lynchings in Selma citing how nice it is in New York – but they would set the law on those racists doing these atrocities. That is NOT what is happening in Israel, the racist activity is in the warp and woof of the nation, it blesses the settlements and their expansion – it is a NATIONAL priority because it is a racist, murdrous, colonial piece of trash. Also, who is it that was voted into office? Likudnic central and Avigdor Lieberman of Yisrael Beitenu fetid party? Did Jerusalem only vote for these representative and Tel Aviv pass? Are the majority of the Israeli population in Jerusalem and this is how these clowns got in? I think everyone knows the answers to these questions and they tend to make my points iron clad! When the recent bombing on Gaza that killed over a thousand innocent civilians over 400 being children, which poured phosphorous on their tender flesh to burn it off and several news sources told us over 90% of the population supported this and 80% said it did not go far enough – were they doing their polls in Jerusalem alone?! NO, they were not – this reflected the position of the majority of the population – not just some "drunk young people in Jerusalem." This is the face Israel gets because it deserves it, this colonial murderous racist Apartheid and rapidly approaching illegitimate "nation."

  72. JES49 says:

    Oh yea, boychick? Well how many bills are there? My understanding is that there's only one other bill, and that makes celebration of the nakba illegal. If (and that's a big "if") it happens to make it through the Knesset, I have no doubts that it won't make it through the courts. At any rate, I suggest you (a) look at Strahl's initial comment here and (b) look up the word mendacious.

  73. Strahl says:

    You're right about the studies. They are on Israeli Jews, but that does not mean American Jews aren't sipping the kool-aid as well. It's about racism in the Jewish community (with a focus on Ashkenazi Jews). The video did not seem like a 60 minutes piece of course. It was a mixture of style/humor and substance. But the substance needs an explanation and context which we can argue Max did not provide sufficiently – ok I'll agree. But the point is that, racism from a hillbilly is less threatening because THEY themselves (racist hillbillies) have very little political clout. I mean, Obama's election if proof that our country has come a long way with respect to Blacks (i dont think we've learned the principles of racism though). So it's about WHO is being racist. What kind of image do you think most Americans see when they think of 'the Jews'? The ADL published some data saying most people do not think Jews run Hollywood. Which is a joke. I mean, people get so tangled up in this language of 'control' or 'run'. It evokes imagery that is unhelpful and tactically stupid. They do not understand that the US facilitates identity politics and that Jewishness is a social pressure in and of itself. Hence, the holocaust/nazi/blah blah card being played by politicians constantly. Kind of like whoever fights Israel and the US is a terrorist. I think most Americans see Jews as inherently good. I think the Jewish intelligentsia and the successful Jews in various fields (entertainment/academia/government) have helped to internalize Jewish suffering. Kind of like how we have internalized suffering of Blacks. But we do not recognize the principles of racism/hatred. So we treat some groups better than others. That's a fact. The standard is not one standard for all. So, this video is a tactic – here I agree with you now. It's not propaganda because Max's style is so obvious. If he dressed it up like 60 Minutes and kept the interviews the same, you could still argue he's being ironic or satirical but it's not propaganda. Propaganda IMO is when you're being serious and sincere even when you're lying. Max was not lying. His explanation of the video is proof of that. So we know he's being sincere – albeit satirical – and truthful. Now, his conclusions could be wrong though. He could be wrong that American and Israeli Jews are becoming racist more and more. The studies are done on israeli jews so we have one half of the pie. I think American jewish youth have some more leg room because of our society but Jews still live in a bubble. Especially those jews in the video. Upper-middle class, birthright crowd, yuppies, college age, etc. All in all, I don't think the negative reaction is justified. This video is not meant to be the pentagon papers. It's a piece to the puzzle. It's small fish but still important. I'm more interested in the reaction to it because we always see videos/etc. mocking Arabs and Muslims as hateful and anything that's against the State (whoever in power) is scrutinized but when its the other way around, it's not the case. Mel Gibson's drunk tirade is the best comparison. You can only say he was a celeb but people kept talking about his comments and how he should apologize. They kept talking about antisemitism as if it were a disease – people do the same with Holocaust denial. They say DENIAL as if you're denying the existence of God. As if these opinions (although of course, there is a threshold on opinions, where after a certain point it does become self-delusion or denial) are heresy. And keep in mind, I mean holocaust denial in the context of free speech. people do not wait until an argument is posed, they just go ballistic if someone has genuine curiosity if A or B happened. And yea, so the reaction to an occurence of antisemitism is much more aggressive than of Islamophobia. in fact, Islamophobia is mainstream. so this video was an important piece

  74. yonahred says:

    it is now clear that your purpose is to be irksome (regarding islam). (you question my statements without making any counter statements.) (fact: islam claims to be the final word. fact: all the words of moses are not included in the koran, only some of his words. and those words are not directly quoted either. dispute these claims and then you can start mocking my statements. til then you're just being irksome.) herzl did not invent zionism, he took a minor movement and made it into a major movement. yes his purpose was a state. but there were other forms of zionism other than his. in fact zionism saved the lives of those jews who were able to move to israel between 1920 and 1939. apparently you agree with those who would prefer to have had the doors closed on them during that period. excuse me for being pleased that the doors were open.

  75. yonahred says:

    we consider ourselves returning to zion. the palestinians consider us colonialists because historically our claims elapsed some time over the last 1700 years and because they do not recognize the claim on the land made by moses.

  76. yonahred says:

    and if the name Arab was sufficient for the mufti in reference to himself as in the arab higher committee, why is it not accurate to use that term to the pre 1948 palestinians?

  77. JES49 says:

    No Lord Haw Haw. Only for the last 14 years since Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995.

  78. JES49 says:

    Aren't you generous, Shirin.

  79. JES49 says:

    Israel built the national police headquarters in Wadi Joz over 30 years ago.

  80. Chu says:

    Max is hurting the image of Israeli's as 'victims' in the US. The HuffPost seems to limit any discussion against Israel ” target=”_blank”>http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=13990 The Huffington Post: Israeli-Occupied Territory

  81. JES49 says:

    And you are an expert in international law, Shirin? For the dissenting opinion of one such real expert, you may want to look here: ” target=”_blank”>http://www.aijac.org.au/resources/reports/interna…

  82. Todd says:

    "The people in my video were not white trash, nor were they the “extreme right-wing fringe” as some bloggers have called them. They were the college-educated sons and daughters of middle and upper class American Jews from cosmopolitan metropolises and genteel suburbs." What would make a person "white trash" or a set him on the "extreme right- wing fringe"? Why do these kids get a pass? One thing that I notice when Jews slip up and reveal the nasty side of their own tribalism, is that there always seems to be an effort by some to play the episode down by equating the behavior to something else, rather than to own up to the behavior as being a strand of Jewish nastiness and tribalism.

  83. Todd says:

    In the excuse making, George Wallace, freedom riders or Jim Crow always seem to be brought up, as if any compare to the Israeli excesses and attitudes championed by so many Jews around the world–I wouldn't put George Wallace on a level with Ben-Gurion, Golda Meier, Sharon, Netanyahu, Lieberman or many other Israelis with actual blood on their hands. And I can't figure out if the people who compare Israel to the American South are trying to avoid Nazi comparisons or not, since the same people often compare the Third Reich with Jim Crow or the Confederacy. I think it's about time the rest of us insits that Jews stand on their own. It would be wrong not to turn the tables.

  84. stayinganonymous says:

    I knew Elliot Abrams as a kid. He was a Democrat, a Kennedy supporter, very much a cold warrior in Jack Kennedy's early mode. He was also casually racist, made racist jokes, made fun of the few black kids in his class.

  85. Shirin says:

    Wow, JES! How impressive. You managed to come up with ONE – count 'em – ONE dissenting opinion, and it is, entirely predictably, none other than Julius Stone, who is sooooo well known for his objective and even-handed approach to international law as it pertains to Israel. And your source? Why, the always unbiased and even-handed Australia/Israel Jewish Affairs Council. And we are supposed to take this seriously compared to the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world's experts. Riiiiiiiiight!

  86. Shirin says:

    Here's how it works, yonahred. You make a claim. It is then your responsibility to provide evidence to substantiate that claim, and demonstrate its significance and how it is relevant ot your argument. So, come on Mr Islamic scholar, let's have specifics, and also an explanation as to why is in any way relevant or significant to your argument. You really can't seem to maintain a consistent argument. Herzl was the founder of the movement that lead to the establishment of the State of Israel. His goal was a Jewish state, not a Jewish homeland. The movement that he founded had as its goal a Jewish state, not a Jewish homeland. Therefore your use of the word homeland in the context of the Zionist movement founded by Herzl that led to the establishment of The Jewish State of Israel is incorrect and misleading. Where do you get that I agree with those who would prefer to have had those doors closed on them? I have not ever either stated or implied any such thing. As a matter of fact, ALL doors should have been wide open to those whose lives were threatened by the Nazis and their collaborators. My problem is not and has never been with doors being open to human beings who need refuge from a mortal threat.

  87. blip says:

    What a bummer. But not a surprise. If you listen to some of the Israeli oi and skinhead bands, you hear lyrics that are virtually indistinguishable from American neo-nazi music. The only difference is in who they hate and who they identify as "God's people." But the underlying logic is absolutely the same. It's so sad to hear that kid talk about his grandmother's tattoo and repeat the phrase "Never again" in such a narrow way. As if it would be OK as long as it doesn't happen to his grandma or his family.

  88. Shirin says:

    Whether or not you were returning to Zion, you were colonists (not colonialists – that is something else entirely). Colonists are people who come to a land from outside that land and set up colonies. The Palestinians and just about everyone else considered you colonists because by definition that is what you were. As for your 1700 year old claim, or the millennia-old claim of a largely mythical religious figure who by now has passed through the guts of countless worms, and whose words or even whose existence cannot really be confirmed, you'd be laughed out of any court of law in the world with that as your proof of ownership.

  89. Shirin says:

    This is your most illogical argument yet. The Mufti was, presumably, an Arab, so he referred to himself as an Arab. And even if he was NOT an Arab, that in no way makes it a fact that all Palestinians were or are Arabs. Nor does the name Arab Higher Committee make it a fact that all Palestinians were or are Arabs. Palestinian society, like Syrian, like Lebanese, like Iraqi, like Egyptian, and like virtually every other society in the region, was and remains a very diverse one both ethno-linguistically and religiously. What you or anyone else calls it, or what the Mufti called himself does not change that reality.

  90. Chu says:

    I realized the same thing with Olberman. Do the American media outlets have a gag order when discussing Israel?

  91. Shirin says:

    PS What is most amusing is that the Zionists themselves referred to "Zionist colonization" and "Zionist colonies" and "Zionist colonists".

  92. Shirin says:

    PS It is always interesting to follow the progression (or is it regression?) of your ever-shifting arguments as soon as you are challenged: "[Islam] says that it recognizes moses as a prophet, but it doesn't recognize any of his words." then "Muslims accept some of Moses' words. pick and choose. have your cake and eat it too." followed by "fact: all the words of moses are not included in the koran, only some of his words. and those words are not directly quoted either." and your latest "[Muslims] do not recognize the claim on the land made by moses." Oh, and by the way, why are you putting it all on Muslims? Do you think Christian Palestinians were or are perfectly happy with Zionism and its effects?

  93. Chu says:

    good point. Where's Borat when you need him.

  94. Eman says:

    Re:Jay – "Perhaps the recent bomb plot in New York against Jewish targets is insignificant to you. It's significant to me." Jay – that supposed 'bomb plot' you reference has been exposed as bogus; see: ” target=”_blank”>http://www.alternet.org/world/140209/fbi_blows_it…

  95. Shirin says:

    Oh NOOOO! Say it isn't so! Not another Muslim terrorist plot that turns out to be completely bogus. What's an Islamophobe to do?

  96. yonahred says:

    butch cassidy and sundance kid- rules in a knife fight? there ain't no rules in a knife fight. i mention muslims and moses and ten comments later you say, who cares what "so called moses through the worm says", so this is how it works. name one palestinian in the first part of the 20th century who referred to himself as a palestinian? in public. a leader. someone whose name appears in wikipedia. if i use a term that was used at the time rather than a term that began to be (widely) used later, don't fault me for not being anachronistic. did i use that word correctly?

  97. Shirin says:

    Now you are just incoherent. What, exactly, are you trying to say here?

  98. yonahred says:

    1. you don't care what it mentions in the koran, so why make an issue out of it, if in the final analysis you're going to just blow it off. 2. i refer to the palestinians pre 1948 as they would have referred to themselves at that time. they would not have called themselves palestinians. if in fact there were some other ethnicities that i am ignoring by using the terms arabs, i hereby apologize to those ethnicities, but nevertheless the palestinians at that time did not refer to themselves as palestinians, so why should i? coherent enough?.

  99. lovelyisraelis says:

    …an excellent summation and response to ha'aretz pitiful effort at damage control. bravo.