Gabriel at Jews sans frontieres:
It is one thing to defend the Iranian state from outside assault and interference, all necessary and laudable, one thing to recognize the occasional political usefulness of the Iranian state on the world's stage, which is real enough if often exaggerated, one thing to admit that the replacement of the Shah's kingdom of thieves with the Islamic Republic was a positive historical development with real material gains for the Iranian working class, and quite another thing to cheer the crackdown on dissent and to root for state violence against a mass movement of people demanding basic civil and political rights, especially rights that our Gucci anti-imperialists enjoy in their safe(r) abodes.
Furthermore, in so far as divide-and-rule is the lifeblood of imperialism, the pitting against each other of different forms of oppression, the demand that we chose exclusively, whether one is pro-Palestinian OR pro-civil rights in Iran, but not both, whether one is against Islamophobia OR for womens' rights, but not both, and so forth, in short, imposing whichever struggle we fancy to be more important on others and demanding that they put their demands for liberation on hold, is not anti-imperialist. On the contrary, it deepens the divisions on the basis of which imperialism flourishes.
As outside observers it is not our role to decide between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi. Nor it is our role to certify or decertify the elections or solve the legitimation crisis of the Iranian state. It is reasonably clear that much of the popular support behind Ahmadinejad is based on legitimate concerns and claims, including fears that Mousawi wished to deepen exploitation and collaborate with the West. It should be equally clear that the millions of working people who are now braving state violence in the streets also have legitimate concerns and claims, including true self-determination, which is not only freedom from U.S. imperialism, but also freedom from state violence and basic civil rights, including the right to form independent trade unions and parties that militate for real economic transformation and not just palliative populism.
Related posts:
- Dual loyalty issue said to damage Ross bid to honcho Iran portfolio
- Jane Harman urges ethnic division in Iran
- Jane Harman urges ethnic division in Iran
- Even as the world stands with Iran, Netanyahu continues to push for war
- ‘J Street’ Stopped AIPAC From Getting Congressional Signatures on Anti-Iran Napkin
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Part One: In all this I'm reminded those four candidates were vetted and approved by Iran's Guardian Council and the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, noting these guys weren't chosen by the West, nor CIA. Also, I'm reminded that well before the election there were growing concerns about Ahmadinejad in his own [conservative] camp. Ahmadinejad splits Iran's conservatives http://www.janes.com/news/security/countryrisk/ji...
Part Two: And, how much should we trust those polls especially if they were 'state-run/monitored' polls, and run on state-run TV? In the past Iran has been known to shut down Iranian polling companies if the results don't conform. Leading Iranian reformist 'arrested' http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/6/15/1315... How about that 'Terror Free Tomorrow' poll — we know Patrick Doherty's credentials, but what about Ken Ballen — the blogger Booman provides some interesting background information: What to Make of Terror Free Tomorrow's Poll http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/6/15/1315...
Part Three: Also, the TFT poll was taken from May 11 to May 20, with still 27% undecided, and it was done before those first in Iranian history televised debates [2nd/8th June], and I presume [I don't know] based on Iran's 'lower' previous election turnouts? I remember how our polls after every televised debate were scrutinized. Also, how many weeks had the other candidates been campaigning when the TFTP was taken? And more importantly how 'energized' were the youth? Could the youth really have made a difference in this election? And just look at those incredible crowds.
Part Four: I still believe [caveat: from the little anyone really knows] this was primarily a 'domestic/internal' power struggle. Of course, certain candidates may have closer connections to the US, just as Khamenei and Ahmadinejad may have closer connections to China and Russia. But it doesn't mean that Mousavi was about to become the United States 'puppet' and their v. own Chalabi, or bring in another Iraq or Shah like government. All this over the top talk about the US meddling only feeds the right in Iran, which in turns feeds our right war mongering right to advocate an attack. Anyways, even if Khamenei and Ahmadinejad remain in power — at least the shine has definitely come off these two, — especially Khamenei… Robert Fisk: Battle for the Islamic Republic ttp://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-battle-for-the-islamic-republic-1711554.html
Love Phil's post over all; but I think, contrary to Phil, that the "working people" of Iran are not in his corner. In this sense, Phil remains, as always, a member of the elite, whether in his home country or by heralded proxy in Iran. I don't think Phil gives a hoot about the working people of the USA, nor those of Iran. I have not ever seen anything on his blog articles to suggest he even faintly realizes why Archie Bunker thinks the way he does–Archie is now recognized as an unseen player in every nation. Phil is the eternal Meathead. He still has no clue, for example, why there were pogroms in Russian-Ukranian history. In general, why some people think "anti-semitism" is not a mental disease, but rather a very rational reaction–the reason is simple: Phil is not, nor does he derive from, the peasant, or serf dirt.
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS A number of commentators have expressed their idealistic belief in the purity of Mousavi, Montazeri, and the westernized youth of Terhan. The CIA destabilization plan, announced two years ago (see below) has somehow not contaminated unfolding events. The claim is made that Ahmadinejad stole the election, because the outcome was declared too soon after the polls closed for all the votes to have been counted. However, Mousavi declared his victory several hours before the polls closed. This is classic CIA destabilization designed to discredit a contrary outcome. It forces an early declaration of the vote. The longer the time interval between the preemptive declaration of victory and the release of the vote tally, the longer Mousavi has to create the impression that the authorities are using the time to fix the vote. It is amazing that people don’t see through this trick. http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts06192009.html
Commentators are "explaining" the Iran elections based on their own illusions, delusions, emotions, and vested interests. Whether or not the poll results predicting Ahmadinejad's win are sound, there is, so far, no evidence beyond surmise that the election was stolen. However, there are credible reports that the CIA has been working for two years to destabilize the Iranian government. On May 23, 2007, Brian Ross and Richard Esposito reported on ABC News: “The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert “black” operation to destabilize the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell ABC News.”
The pogroms as a response to Jewish social snobbery? It's hard for me to believe such a self-evident proposition has not been more widely heralded. When the Jews in the Ukraine wouldn't let the peasants join their country clubs, those peasants got hot! And who can blame them? And when the Jews made sure their kids got into all the best private schools, well, that tore it! All it takes after that is for Jews to share a cup of Christian baby-blood ("ManoManischevitz" in the Hebrew) at schul and the peasants go off their collective nuts. "Phil is not, nor does he derive from, the peasant, or serf dirt" You know it, bubele! From the tip of his cowlick to his ten tiny toes like perfect little shrimps, from his aqualine, imperious nose to his perfect Mechelin radial lace cuffs to his loafers of richest Corinthinian leather, to his perferct cuticles, everything about Phil bespeaks a thousand years of aristocratic breeding. None of the Wiess's ever stopped to schtup, classwise, if you get my drift. Strictly balebatisheh yiden!!
SAM, I'll let you in on a little secret. "Stability" is vastly overrated. Actually, it sucks. Avoid it if you can, is my advice. It's stultifying.
"Mousavi declared his victory several hours before the polls closed. Then why didn't the Interior Ministry vehemently come out and deny Mousavi's claim. Also, why was the counting afterwards done in secret?
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/6/21/5936... Links from some great news digging from Oui http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/6/21/5936...
"…Whether or not the poll results predicting Ahmadinejad's win are sound, there is, so far, no evidence beyond surmise that the election was stolen…" Ok, but don't you think it's fair for Mousavi and his followers to also say there is little proof that this was a fair and relatively clean election?
Gabriel needs an editor.
Samuel you are so last month. Yes the CIA has been given a budget of $400 million to undermine the Iranian state. And I am sure they have spent that money supporting acts of terrorism and assassination. And it also likely the case that Ahmedinijad really did win the vote. Those facts are irrelevant. Something new has happened. The election has aroused thoes people who resent state intervention in how they should dress, what they should drink, how they should conduct courtship and all the other things that the reactionary Islamists have tried to impose on the Iranian people. Today they are rising in protest. Any person in the west who considers themselves a prgrossive should be supporting their choice fto fight for freedom especially when they are putting their lives on the line.
Slightly off topic, but did anyone get a chance to watch David Gregory raking Netanyahu over white hot coals on Meet the Press? I never miss Gregory, but unfortunately I overslept this morning.
Fine. We should encourage the Gucci Iranian middle-class. therefore giving the Mullahs and the Basij more of a reason to bash heads. Let's get at it, folks.
You forgot his jeans with pen stains. They are the latest fashion in elite circles. It's to trick the masses, and a secret code for the insider.
It's not the first time I find Paul Craig Robert's narrative utterly unconvincing. To pick out just one item. He really needs somebody to check his facts. Daniel McAdams has made some telling points. For example, neoconservative Kenneth Timmerman wrote the day before the election that “there’s talk of a ‘green revolution’ in Tehran.” How would Timmerman know that unless it was an orchestrated plan? The day before the election means 06/11/2009 (election 06/12/09). So Timmermann knew a deep secret one day before the election. But pray tell me, why is the title of Robert Dreyfuss' article posted three days before on 06/08/2009 Iran's green wave? Could it be Timmermann's use is figurative? http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/441959&am... There's electricity in the air in Tehran. Beneath the snow-capped peaks that tower over the city, crowds gather every night to argue in the streets. Campaign posters touting candidates in the June 12 vote cover the city. A year ago, when I visited Tehran in advance of the parliamentary elections, there was apathy. Voters then were convinced that their votes didn't matter, and that not voting was the best way to protest the current state of affairs. No longer. There's a wave building, and all signs point to a resounding victory for Mir Hossein Mousavi, the pro-reform candidate who is challenging President Ahmadinejad. That wave is green. All over the capital, there are green signs and banners supporting Mousavi. Cars flying green flags speed through the city, honking horns for Mousavi. For years, the hardline clergy and their allies, including Ahmadinejad, have feared nothing more than an Iranian-style "color-revolution." Now, Mousavi–with solid establishment credentials, an Islamic revolutionary pedigree second to none, and an outspoken pro-reform message–finds himself at the head of a green parade.
I don't know about white hot coals… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31463249/ns/meet_the_...
Not all the mullahs are like Khamenei. ~ Grand Ayatollah Montazeri has condemned the attacks on civilians and called for three days of mourning for them. http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2009/06...
Samuel, honestly. I know the CIA, as generally everything secret, is an attractive tale. But I would warn you concerning Roberts. I have the strong feeling he often peddles myth. And rather carelessly too.
Pat Lang watched it, here is his comment: http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyranni... The paradigm that I have been thinking within regarding the future of Iranian-US-Israeli relations is no longer valid. You could see that today in the appearance of Bibi Natanyahu on "Meet the Press." When pressed by David Gregory concerning Iran, he displayed hesitation and uncertainty in his responses. That is a good thing.
Are you in charge of spreading the Ahmadinjad myth or are you honestly falling for it?
I've been called an anti-Semite a million times for speaking out against Israeli abuses of the Palestinians. Do you really think that little comment is going to bother me?
Have you seen Gabriel's reaction to your take on Herzl? http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2009/05/ot...
Just in case somebody is puzzled what sphinx Obama really thinks about the events in Iran. Turn to the WSJ, they tell you Obama thinks exactly like them. He want Ahmadinjad to be president, and the trouble we see now to stop. He wants the show of talks to get over with, he wants to speedily move on to the next stage: nuking Iran into surrender. http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=267 ;)
quite the title for a post "how to think about iran" "I still believe [caveat: from the little anyone really knows]"… i like it when people begin a sentence stating this…if more people did this, we would begin to recognize ignorance is common, belief rampant, but when it comes to reality, it is an open question as to what is what a lot of the time! i guess that puts me in the ignorance category as well, lol…
I'm only human.
I thought it was a softball interview. No mention of settlements, negotiations in earnest. He got to say that the Druze that demonstrated in front of his office, that he invited in to talk with him, were comparable to Mousavi implying that the Supreme Leader's regime was invalid.
I never miss a chance to miss Gregory. Sorry I missed this one.
various links: Guardian Council: Over 100% voted in 50 cities / Press TV http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2009/06/israe... Israeli Pilots Knew US Spy Ship Was American Before 1967 War Attack / CQ Politics / Jeff Stein http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2009/06/israe...
Emailed to me from a friend: With all the (mis)information on Iran in the media today, I thought that this program, recently re-broadcast on CSPAN was worth taking a second look at. The discussion involved observations of Rick Steves while in Iran during the filming of his PBS documentary. Steves is a travel writer who has had numerous shows on PBS and has written many books on travelling and tourism. Agreeably, this does not make him an expert on international political affairs, but he does show an immense ability to cross geo-political borders and focus on the 'person' not the 'state'. For those who have been to Iran, especially those who have lived there, his observations may seem simplistic, but for the average American who has very little knowledge of the land and the people, his thoughts and experiences are invaluable. Either way, his trip to Iran is interesting and particularly evokative for those of us raised in this country who choose to look beyond the headlines offered by biased media. His thoughts shared at the end of the program, particularly regarding Israel and their nuclear capability and even his comments about Turkey (sectarian vs. theocratic forms of government) are worth further discussion. Where I often disagreed with his conclusions, more than once he made me think a little deeper about how we go about this world judging people and how we should never look at what is perceived as good for us, especially in this increasingly interdependent world, is necessarily good for another. Hmmmmm…….. Click on this link to watch the entire program or make discussions selections. http://www.ricksteves.com/iran/iran_menu.htm or go to http://www.ricksteves.com/iran/iran_menu.htm to see information about the documentary itself.
Our government and media for the most part have been telling us all along how we should think about Iran, rather than giving us all of the opposing facts in order to think for ourselves…And many of us know this, yet instead of doing something about this fact, we would rather complain about other countries such as the Iranian government and media….
"…Walter Mebane, a University of Michigan professor, has been examining the election results using statistical and computational tools to detect fraud, a method he describes as "election forensics…." I wonder if Juan Cole knows him? According to Mebane: "…The vote counts I see recorded here do connect to reality to some extent, but in no way do I think that any of this analysis rules out the possibility of manipulation," he said. Mebane pointed out that trends would still ring true if the government simply inflated Ahmadinejad's vote by a fixed percentage, perhaps offsetting it against deflated opposition tallies. But the fact remains, world politicians and international journalists cannot claim to know the truth. To do so, would only show that they're lying. "Only one thing is certain: anyone outside Iran claiming to be 'sure' of fraud is actually making a fraudulent statement," said one observer. "Such baseless claims only reflect the motives or wishes of the person making them," he added. "At best, it is just a matter of opinion….". http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=328... Does it even matter anymore since the elections were a week ago and things have moved on now to making other allegations against Iran….?
…telling there people how they should be thinking….
sand, i really did like what you had to say… the title which is not yours threw me for a loop and i relate to what marion has to say on this to a degree…
Watch Pepe Escobar discuss Iran on therealnews from Sao Paulo Brazil. He has reported election results from Iran for years. He has a better grasp of Iranian politics than most western reporters I know, and he doesn't take sides; he explains sides. Neither does he have an American reporter hang-up with discussing Zionism: it's just another aspect of the mix. http://z.pe/aFM
Rick Steves Web site starts out I’m working in Iran, part of the “axis of evil” (as defined by my president) in a land whose own president leads chants of “Death to America.” This has me thinking about bombast and history. The title of the blog post is “Death to Israel…Death to Traffic.” Nowhere does he explain what the Iranian author on Bill Maher explained last Friday: Death to __________ means Down with ___________ in Farsi. It doesn't mean death. Why is this important? Because Iran is shown through this prism of ignorance, because the author doesn't know the difference….and who needs it. Death to Israel is a misnomer.
Gabriel's entire article is fabulous. I consider it a must-read. Why MSM anchors and journos aren't reading stuff of this calibre and reflecting it in their commentary is beyond me. If I hear 'We only have unconfirmed tweets and videos coming out of Iran' once more I'll scream bloody murder. We do not have a level of intelligent public discourse in this country. We're palinized. Why isn't the MSM reading good shit on the web and reporting it? Why aren't the ardent POVs being heard? Pro-Mousavi, Pro-Ahmedi Nezhad, Pro-The Rest? Maybe if we can jumpstart this, we can jumpstart an intelligent I/P discussion.
The pogroms as a response to economic exploitation is even funnier: http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/20... http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/20...
The comments on Lang's website are quite informative.
Excellent point, MRW. Bill Maher chose not to follow up; I'm sure "wipe of the map" mistranslation came to his mind too. Our congressmen and women endlessly repeat that bogus information.
Nobody is cheering the crack down on dissidents. I'm certainly not. What I am doing is pointing out that the street protests might well be orchestrated and funded by U.S monies and the violence and unwillingness to cooperate with the mullahs to investigate the election demonstrates what I see as a means of provoking a response that warrants foreign intervention.
Or at the least a means of legitimizing the demonization of Iran with the goal of regime change that benefits the U.S/Israeli oppression of the region…
Thats not going to happen in the MSM and you know it – and you know why, as well. People – wake up. Once some of you start acknowleding there is concrete evidence of western interference and that it is NOT in the benefit of most Iranians than we can start having a SERIOUS conversation…. Sorry for the grammar/spelling -I'm rushed this morning…
Escobar sights as corruption in Ahmadinejad's government the hand out of money to woman weavers and political bosses to win votes. The U.S. does that on a grander scale. What was the auto companies bail out but vote buying exercise to it's employees? The bloated U.S. bureaucracy is nothing more than buying votes and offering non productive jobs to keep the establishment in power. To sight government handouts as a sign of Ahmadinejad's corruption is dishonest because what government doesn't/hasn't engaged in it.
Bill Maher is a grade A asshole. Sorry for the interruption . The only thing that phoney liberal cares about is his paycheck…..
Be sure your support of the "Iranian people" will be acknowledged while bombs are landing on their beautiful heads..
"root for state violence against a mass movement of people demanding basic civil and political rights, ' Yeah right. Utter nonsense…
You do make a valid point, and Phil has acknowleged that contempt for "peasantry" is part of his cultural heritage. I have pointed out that he has a blind spot towards the fierce attachment to land, religion, and tradition that motivates much of the world outside the East Coast intelligencia.
Thanks, the Escobar clip delineates the opposing forces; something the US TV news hasn't even touched. Here's an Escobar followup unraveling more of Iran's internal context. He says it's quite reasonable to believe A might have won the election in realiy, but not by the announced landslide by far, which amounted to a coup. He ends by saying it's basically up to the Iranian Street now; Iran has already been changed for good. The US Yr2000 election was stolen and the Americans didn't even protest: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KF16Ak03...
Let's also not forget that the street protests started off violently – burning stuff in the street because they didn't like the outcome of the election. That doesn't warrant the crackdown – it never does – but it would happen here too so lets' get our head out of our collective asses….
Or perhaps he genuinely believes that the person with the most votes should be president.
"He has a better grasp of Iranian politics than most western reporters I know, and he doesn't take sides; he explains sides. " Escobar has zero understanding of Iranian politics. On most days he just picks up whatever he reads on Juan Cole's blog and passes it off as original analysis. At one point he even declared my city, Peshawar, under Taliban control. Obviously, it came as news to all of us.
The entire article is based on a strawman argument, and a false dichotomy. The fellow appears to have his own axe to grind. And curiously, he at no point allows empirical evidence to slow down his rhetorical flourishes.
On that note, how can we get Obama to read this Mearsheimer article on How To Save Israel From Itself: http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/may/18/00014...
Citizen you might want to take a look at James Petras's analysis as well. http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen070903... And this written in 2003 by Michael Ledeen call THE FUTURE OF IRAN. Same drum beat, "So what are we waiting for?" http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen070903...
"Working people" bla bla bla "US Imperialism" yadda yadda yadda. My eyes glazed over. Nothing worth hearing is going to come from that quarter. I'd rather hear a choir singing flat.
Well, I read the "analysis" of James Petras too and found it incredibly ill informed, dogmatic, and annoying. What saved my day was this analysis of James Petras' analysis: Iran, Gucci anti-imperialism and movement anti-intellectuals http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2009/06/ir... Have a nice day.
Why do my articles of interest have to be approved by the site administration? I posted a couple yesterday that never were posted…I might start believing that there is some kind of conspiracy going on here that is against freedom of speech..
I agree. If the U.S. regime were seriously threatened, I doubt that the response would be much better than what is happening in Iran. I also doubt that foreign interference would be tolerated. Where some people get the idea that the U.S. is run by caring people who aren't serious about keeping and exercising power is beyond me.
"The eternal Meathead"! I get that impression, also. Actually, I liked Phil's post, until he started the working class bullshit. Seriously, how many people don't have to do something for money? He might as well just call everyone below a certain level peons. The funny thing is that people like Phil somehow see themselves as being above the exploiters of the managerial, political or business classes, when they are just a different side of similar coins. They all want to manage other people to their own maximum benefit. Why fool themselves? From what I've read of Phil's opinions, he has no understanding of what he calls the "working classes" in America, and supports everything that goes against their interests. I bet he even confuses the working class with the welfare class.
Outrider, if you thought Petras' analysis was so incredibly ill informed after having read it, why did you need to go to another source to confirm your opinion (to save your day)? Perhaps it wasn't that ill informed, perhaps you just didn't like what he said. In the future think about what you write a little longer before you write it. Surely they taught you that at hasbara school?
how to think about iran? I dont need Ash to tell me how to think…esp as i disagree with his analysis., which really serves israels interests.
'It is reasonably clear that much of the popular support behind Ahmadinejad is based on legitimate concerns and claims, including fears that Mousawi wished to deepen exploitation and collaborate with the West. It should be equally clear that the millions of working people who are now braving state violence in the streets also have legitimate concerns and claims, including true self-determination, which is not only freedom from U.S. imperialism, but also freedom from state violence and basic civil rights, including the right to form independent trade unions and parties that militate for real economic transformation and not just palliative populism. ' Hmm..a new tact…but wait what millions of working people in the streets? True self detemination? Not unless they can show they are free of Us money. '
From trish schuh: ' Surrounding Corsi at his walk were three dozen Los Angeles Iranian dissidents and pro-monarchists interviewed by an Orthodox Jewish journalist and by the CIA-backed Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Farda. The Los Angeles Times of March 20 revealed that "Tehrangeles" has become a crucial recruiting ground for Iranian expatriates who gather information for the US intelligence community. Also providing assistance are various Farsi language media which broadcast messages against the Iranian government into Iran. ' http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_561... lets see gabriel think about that!
Iran/Persia The American hand in Iran By Trish Schuh. Axis of Logic commentary. Asia Times. Axis of Logic Monday, Jun 22, 2009 http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_561...
I thought the same thing. In fact the interviewee used the term "pork" to catagorize how Ahmadinejad retained power, essentially the same way Democrats classically buy votes (Acorn anyone?), and the Republicans too (corporate cap gain tax, IRS loopholes, credits, subsidies, etc). Escobar paused to tell non-American audiences what the term "pork" meant. As to the specifics regarding the woman rug weavers, some 3 million of them and an important export industry, the interviewee said that was an example of "good pork" in that Ahmadinejad got them health insurance, which they didn't have. Those rugs are obviously an example of a product of key productive jobs, not merely welfare.
Thanks, Laurie–I think the point is made by the headline reference atop the Petras analysis: “Change for the poor means food and jobs, not a relaxed dress code or mixed recreation… Politics in Iran is a lot more about class war than religion.” Financial Times Editorial, June 15 2009 I happen to view the USA in the same way, even though I am American born and bred.
I believe it's contempt rather than just a blind spot for most. My guess is they would understand enough to not want to be converted to their least favorite religion, have their neighborhoods and institutions handed over to provincials, or to be forcibly moved to the suburbs or beyond. You are too kind, David.
Washington – Iran's one-time crown prince Reza Pahlavi said Monday that week-long protests in his country were supported by much of the military and clerical establishment and could end up bringing down the entire Islamic government. Pahlavi, who has sought an end to the Islamic regime since his father was deposed in the 1979 revolution, said he had sources within the military and intelligence that were ready to switch sides. "It's almost a revolutionary climate," an at-times teary-eyed Pahlavi told reporters in Washington. "Let me assure you, (the movement) will not die because we will not let it die." He appeared at the invitation of the National Press Club. Hundreds of thousands have taken to the streets in Iran, defying the government, in sometimes bloody demonstrations of what they believe was a fraudulent June 12 election victory by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Iranian opposition candidate Mir-Hossein Moussavi, a former prime minister, has demanded a rerun of the election and vowed to continue the protests. Pahlavi, who was exiled from Iran and now lives in the United States, warned that a failure of the protest movement would encourage more "extremism" in Iran. He said resistance among security officials"has already started," with some refusing to carry out orders to suppress the protests, but he could not give an indication of the extent of the internal discord. Ahmadinejad has the strong backing of Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has called for people to stop demonstrating or face a possible crackdown. Pahlavi said Khamenei had sealed his own fate by backing Ahmadinejad: The protest movement had shifted from a simple call for a new election to a wider demand for an end to the entire Islamic regime. "It was an ugly moment of disrespect for both God and man," Pahlavi said. "It will not stand, and at the end (Khameinei) will not stand." Pahlavi said that Moussavi, who was part of the 1979 revolution, would soon have to decide whether he, too, will seek a complete overhaul of Iran's regime. "You can't at the same time hold allegiance to the regime and at the same time hold allegiance to the people," Pahlavi said. "This is no longer tenable." Pahlavi for years has advocated a secular parliamentary democracy for Iran, and made no claims on Monday for reviving the monarchy. http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/274337,fo...
"You can't at the same time hold allegiance to the regime and at the same time hold allegiance to the people," Pahlavi said. "This is no longer tenable."' so Mr Shah=in=waiting…..the people cant wait for a shah to return???? What we are seeing on the street is a peversion of Satyagrahga…not holding firmly to the truth but holding firmly to the lie/,,,that there was vote fraud!
I listened to Pahlavi on C-SPAN this morning. I came away with the same awareness as you, brian. He's for sure the Shah in Waiting. I do not conclude however that there was no vote fraud. It's simply everyone right now is trying to spin the event to their own advantage. I hope Obama continues to ignore any attempt to make him appear to support one side or the other. Anyone who has been recently boning up on internal Iran realizes the situation is not Star Wars, or some older American Western movie.
I suspect that HowNOT2think has never seen the inside of a factory or carried a union membership card, since his post is typical of certain left elite who tend to romanticize the working class while clinging tightly to their own bourgeoise life style. The lack of political consciousness on the part of American workers, which beginning with Samuel Gompers, stems from deficiencies of our educational system to the class collaborationist policies of the "AFL-CIA" (GHWB, 1989) with a number of other pit stops in between, has long been a puzzlement to the workers in other countries who wonder why workers around the world, except for the US, celebrate May 1 as International Workers Day, when the events that triggered that holiday originated in Chicago, America's heartland. Their ignorance may also explain why the leadership of the US labor movement such as it is, is the ONLY one on the planet that has consistently supported Israel to the bloody hilt. It is, in fact, a key component of the Zionist lobby. And, in case, you were wondering, I have been a union member and organizer.
Thanks, Idrees. Who do you find valuable to listen to?
Maybe so from your POV, but the majority of us know zipperino about Iran. And 140 characters does not provide context. I want to read as many different POVs as I can; God knows the MSM doesn't provide it. I dont accept one person telling me that X is the lay of the land. I urge a conversation because I think it's important; for example, Phil's two or three years here discussing the I/P situation has been a long haul educating all of us. I am perfectly capable of reading something, being enthralled with it, urging others to read it, but accepting it in the category of 'duly noted', and just allowing it to be one more piece in the mosaic of my understanding. I dont take the part for the whole. It can take me years to come to a definitive understanding of a topic, and goal #1 is grasping the structure of it before I go anywhere else with the info. What would have been helpful in your comment above was to have you explain the axe you thought he was grinding.
I couldn't believe my ears when Netanyahu started talking about one nation, Iran, abusing the people within its borders. I wondered how reptilian a person's mind would have to be to talk like that when his own nation is almost synonymous with oppressing its people. Gregory sat there dumbly, as if nothing had happened. He failed to ask a critical question about the irony of Netanyahu's position. Television journalism is a disaster, a propaganda mill, and a waste of time for all thinking people.
A Hard Look at the Numbers What Actually Happened in the Iranian Presidential Election? By Esam AL-Amin http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22889... **** Stolen Election in Iran? An Inside View of Vote Fraud By Maarten Doude van Troostwijk http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22889...
A Hard Look at the Numbers What Actually Happened in the Iranian Presidential Election? By Esam AL-Amin http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22889... **** Stolen Election in Iran? An Inside View of Vote Fraud By Maarten Doude van Troostwijk http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22889...
A Hard Look at the Numbers What Actually Happened in the Iranian Presidential Election? By Esam AL-Amin http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22889... **** Stolen Election in Iran? An Inside View of Vote Fraud By Maarten Doude van Troostwijk http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22889...
A Hard Look at the Numbers What Actually Happened in the Iranian Presidential Election? By Esam AL-Amin http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22889... **** Stolen Election in Iran? An Inside View of Vote Fraud By Maarten Doude van Troostwijk http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22889...
Those polls seemed to have been all over the place. As a reply I really hate to use wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_presidential... What I'm really looking for is an article that maybe had some researched links that could delve into those 'commissioned' polls as well as their methodology and etc. to maybe back us those claims?
"As a reply I really hate to use wikipedia:" Than why did you use it? Because you couldn't come up with anything credible to counter the points made in these articles…. Mousavi's untenable complaint http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2009/06/...
Mousavi's untenable complaint http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2009/06/...
Mousavi's untenable complaint http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2009/06/...
Mousavi's untenable complaint http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2009/06/...
I" am perfectly capable of reading something, being enthralled with it, urging others to read it, but accepting it in the category of 'duly noted', and just allowing it to be one more piece in the mosaic of my understanding. I dont take the part for the whole. It can take me years to come to a definitive understanding of a topic, and goal #1 is grasping the structure of it before I go anywhere else with the info."–MRW Which should be the same for anyone searching a definitive understanding of a topic that is not based on their preconceived biases, yet it is obvious that many here are not searching for a definitive understanding of a topic but an understanding that continues to stroke their preconceived biases….
'I do not conclude however that there was no vote fraud. It's simply everyone right now is trying to ' Hitler big lie technique…lie often enough and with fervour and people will begin to believe you….thats what we see happening here again.And as with nazi germany, the media is playing an important propaganda role.
Marion I read your articles… From your 1st article "…More than thirty pre-election polls were conducted in Iran …The polls varied widely between the two opponents… However, some of the organizations sponsoring these polls, such as Iranian Labor News Agency and Tabnak, admit openly that they have been allies of Mousavi, the opposition, or the so-called reform movement…." Marion — think! so who do you think commissioned the other polls? — esp. when Ahmadinejad had control over state media and where many of the polls that did have Ahmadinejad ahead didn't reveal their own methodologies — remembering we are talking about StateTV here. Roundup: Analyses of Fraud in Iran By Mark Blumenthal http://www.pollster.com/blogs/roundup_analyses_of...
Noting that Mark Blumenthal and Nate Silver are not some nutballs, nor are the accredited institutions that looked at the election data to try and see if even some of Mousavi's claims played out. Seems like he had some reason for concern.
You have an oddly European attitude towards class politics in the US. Americans have never really bought into class politics, and historically have been economically libertarian and hostile to government redistribution of wealth.
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