It was only a matter of time – Israeli govt minister compares Obama to Pharaoh

on 53 Comments

Israeli anxiety over the Obama administration actually being serious about settlement growth seems to getting worked into a full blown lather. Ha’aretz is following the frenzy closely and reports on a meeting between George Mitchell and Israeli officials in
London to follow up on the Obama-Netanyahu meeting two weeks ago. The article has the unintentionally funny headline “Israel to U.S.: ‘Stop favoring Palestinians’:

The Israeli delegates were stunned by the uncompromising U.S. stance, and by statements from Mitchell and his staff that agreements reached with the Bush administration were unacceptable. An Israeli official privy to the talks said that “the Americans took something that had been agreed on for many years and just stopped everything.”

“What about the Tenet Report, which demanded that the Palestinians dismantle the terror infrastructure?” said the official, referring to former CIA director George Tenet. “It’s unfair, and there is no reciprocity shown toward the Palestinians.”

The Israeli envoys said the demand for a total settlement freeze was not only unworkable, but would not receive High Court sanction. Tensions reportedly reached a peak when, speaking of the Gaza disengagement, the Israelis told their interlocutors, “We evacuated 8,000 settlers on our own initiative,” to which Mitchell responded simply, “We’ve noted that here.”

Ha’aretz also points out the Israeli delegates’ disappointment that the Obama administration will not honor the deals the Bush administration struck with Ariel Sharon.

As can be expected, Israeli politicians are turning this disagreement over policy into an existential crisis. Noam Sheizaf points to this quote on his Promised Land blog:

“The American demand to prevent natural growth is unreasonable, and brings to mind Pharaoh who said: Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river,” Science Minister and Habayit Hayehudi head Daniel Herschkowitz said Sunday.

Sheizaf ends with, “My guess is that it is only a matter of time before Obama will be compared to Hitler.”

With Amalek in Iran, and the Pharoah running things in DC, Israel will really have its work cut out for it. Unfortunately, for all the fireworks, the US has still not decided how it wants to hold Israel accountable to stopping settlement growth. Helene Cooper reports today in her Times article “U.S. Weighs Tactics on Israeli Settlement” that “placing conditions on loan guarantees to Israel, as the first President Bush did nearly 20 years ago, is not under discussion,” and that at this point the US is only considering symbolic actions such as “refraining from the instant Security Council veto of United Nations resolutions that Israel opposes.” Small steps.

53 Responses

  1. August West
    June 1, 2009, 3:37 pm

    "Sheizaf ends with, 'My guess is that it is only a matter of time before Obama will be compared to Hitler.'" The outlandish and vicious the Israeli attacks on its benefactor, the USA, the easier it will be to portray Israel as real obstruction to peace. I would love to see their reaction should President Barack HUSSEIN Obama invite B'TSelem, Peace Now, and sister Palestinian groups to the White House. Merely inviting the Israeli groups alone should cause the colonist movement and its supporters to go ballistic.

  2. Colin_Murray
    June 1, 2009, 3:57 pm
  3. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 4:05 pm

    No matter how moderate or tepid Washington's proposals to Israel are, Zionist opportunists and demagogues will invoke some incident in the well documented history of Jewish victimhood going back from relatively recent history (like Sdoret rocket attacks or the Holocaust) all the way to biblical times. I have to wonder how much of the Talmud-like documentation of Jewish vicimhood was performed for situations just like this — so buttons in the collective memory of humanity could be installed and easily pushed at opportune times. When it comes to constructing and promoting an entire historiography of victimization (aka, professional victimhood) organized Jewry is unsurpassed, bar none. But the Left has internalized all of its dirty tricks, and has itself crafted a victim identity that is beginning to rival that of the Jews. God help us all.

  4. ILA
    June 1, 2009, 4:13 pm

    There is one rather simple way to pressure Israel into obeying international law. Cancel its tariff free access to the US market. The more you reward Israeli violations, the more they give… ” target=”_blank”>…

  5. 888
    June 1, 2009, 4:15 pm

    are israeli delegates ever stunned by the uncompromising actions and intent of their own country?? i doubt it, or if so, we never hear about it, or worse – they get shot…

  6. Doppler
    June 1, 2009, 4:19 pm

    Amelek in Iran, led by Hitler, Pharoah in Washington. Sotomayor a Latina racist with PMS who will soon have power over us. Not maintaining secret prisons where torture occurs is putting us all at risk. Note the common denominators: fear-based and fear-inducing hyperbole, with a racial bent. It seems to be a character type. Best dealt with by intervention from those closest to the fragile ones: "Quiet, dear. You should take your medicine. And don't discuss politics or religion outside of the house, you know how upset it makes you."

  7. Craig11
    June 1, 2009, 4:23 pm

    Imagine that, the Americans want Israel to stop expanding settlements they had no legal right to build in the first place! What nerve! Next they’ll be telling the Israelis not to use white phosphorus on civilians! Where will it end?

  8. Sand
    June 1, 2009, 4:29 pm

    Off Topic but… Iran Secretly Helped U.S. Bomb Taliban Units, Find Al Qaeda By Jeff Stein | May 28, 2009 ” target=”_blank”>… "…."Iran and the West"[via YouTube] has yet to be televised here, and a spokesperson for PBS, the usual venue for such fare, said the public broadcasting network has no plans to pick it up. In the third segment of the three-part documentary, Leverett described the Iranians' secret offer to help the American bombers destroy Taliban units in the fall of 2001. "The Iranians were willing to do whatever was necessary to help ensure that the U.S. military campaign [against the Taliban] could succeed," Leverett told the BBC. She had previously described some of the back channel meetings with Iran in an October 2007 story by John H. Richardson in Esquire magazine. But neither that nor the BBC's "Iran and the West" documentary has elicited detectable news media interest here, despite its incessant descriptions of Iran as an uncompromising, implacable foe…" there's more.

  9. tommy
    June 1, 2009, 4:45 pm

    There must be some misunderstanding. Pharaoh never subsidized Israelite settlements and then stopped subsidizing them. Pharaoh demanded payment of tribute, however, it is the Israelis who demand payment of tribute from the US. Who is the suzerain?

  10. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 4:52 pm

    Isn't that just like the Neocons and venal Western Statists to cultivate and accept Iran's help one day, and turn around and stab it in the back the next on behalf of Zionist "affirmative action" for Jews? And not only that, but Western Statists have also subsidized Arab authoritarians for years on behalf of prodding the Mideast towards "secularism." No wonder the Muslims don't trust the Statist, post-Christian West: it's comprised back-stabbing, hyper-secular fanatical Statists — mony-worshipping Plutocrats and “Judeo-Christians” on the Right, and government-worshipping technocrats on the Left. And they're all corrupt to the core. No ethics, no principles, no morals. Just short-term opportunism in pursuit of the imposition of their arrested-development inspired ethos of materialism.

  11. DJ SanDiego
    June 1, 2009, 5:06 pm

    Trillions USD is no guarantee you will get the syntax or the lingo in sixty-one years.Just a little noise…Its a jewish thing you wouldnt understand……..

  12. RowanBerkeley
    June 1, 2009, 5:44 pm

    In your pursuit of the 'statism' bugy, you have missed the point, which is that al Qaeda was, objectively speaking, exactly what the US needed, and still needs, as a pretext for all its imperial adventures, so naturally they didn't want to really damage it. Remember, the US airlifted the main al Qaeda cadres out of Konduz, themselves, in November 2001: SY HERSH: Okay, the cream of the crop of Al Qaeda caught in a town called Konduz which is near … it's one little village and it's a couple hundred kilometers, 150 miles from the border of Pakistan. And I learned this story frankly– through very, very clandestine operatives we have in the Delta Force and other very… We were operating very heavily with a small number of men, three, 400 really in the first days of the war. And suddenly one night when they had everybody cornered in Konduz– the special forces people were told there was a corridor that they could not fly in. There was a corridor sealed off to– the United States military sealed off a corridor. And it was nobody could shoot anybody in this little lane that went from Konduz into Pakistan. And that's how I learned about it. I learned about it from a military guy who wanted to fly helicopters and kill people and couldn't do it that day. JANE WALLACE: So, we had the enemy surrounded, the special forces guys are helping surround this enemy. SY HERSH: They're whacking everybody they can whack that looks like a bad guy. JANE WALLACE: And suddenly they're told to back off– SY HERSH: From a certain area– JANE WALLACE: — and let planes fly out to Pakistan. SY HERSH: There was about a three or four nights in which I can tell you maybe six, eight, 10, maybe 12 more– or more heavily weighted– Pakistani military planes flew out with an estimated– no less than 2,500 maybe 3,000, maybe more. I've heard as many as four or 5,000. They were not only– Al Qaeda but they were also– you see the Pakistani ISI was– the military advised us to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. There were dozens of senior Pakistani military officers including two generals who flew out. And I also learned after I wrote this story that maybe even some of Bin Laden's immediate family were flown out on the those evacuations. We allowed them to evacuate. We had an evacuation…. ” target=”_blank”>…

  13. LanceThruster
    June 1, 2009, 6:15 pm

    It was only a matter of time…. My friend Bernie the Attorney called me this morning to say that Israel had announced a "Final Solution"..that is, they are rejecting a two-state solution and are now saying if the Palestinians want their own state they need to get the hell out and start one in Jordan. Anyone else have any further details on this?

  14. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 7:01 pm

    Left-wing hyper-secularism is the tool of imperialism, because a religious people are resistant to the empty materialism, social pornography and cultural pollution being peddled by the Capitalists. Why do you think the Bushies were so eager to "remake the middle east" with their Trotskyite Jewish partners? Leftists see the masses as cattle, and so do Capitalists. The only difference is that the left wants to use the State to lobotomize and socially engineer the masses into Godless liberal "if it feels good, do it" specifications whereas the Capitalists want to lobotomize and socially engineer them into good little brain dead consumers. The Capitalists will happily go the left-wing Statist hyper secular route now that nakedly Capitalist Friedman-based shock-doctrine model is a proven disaster. Why do you think Murdoch-funded Neocons like Kristol are now cozying up to Soros-funded liberals at the Center for America Progress on behalf of the “Af-Pak“ war front? ” target=”_blank”>…

  15. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 7:03 pm

    C’mon, Rowan. Do you really think Muslims are dumb enough to believe they’ll be able to maintain any kind of long-term political alliance with atheist-materialist, social pornography-venerating lefties and perverts? ” target=”_blank”>…

  16. Colin_Murray
    June 1, 2009, 7:10 pm

    Mr. Hersh clearly states that the American intent was to allow the escape of senior Pakistani military, not to allow Al Qaeda to escape. He says that we lost control of the operation and the Pakistanis took Al Qaeda and Taliban with them. It is obvious that the only control we had was over the airspace. We didn't have people on the ground inside Konduz deciding who got onto the planes. I have no doubt this was obvious to our people. However, there is no evidence Pres. Bush or Sec. Rumsfeld agreed to this to allow Al Qaeda could escape. A much more plausible scenario is that Musharraf promised that only his people would be taken out , and that when planes arrived for them his people inside Konduz didn't feel bound in the slightest to uphold the honor of Musharraf's word at the cost of breaking trust with the Taliban and Al Qaeda with whom they probably had a long and productive relationship bound by common views on religion and politics. Remember that the Pakistani military has plenty of people, supposedly especially in intelligence, who dislike or even despise Musharraf. If Pres. Bush and Sec. Rumsfeld are guilty of anything in this incident, it is monstrous stupidity and incompetence, which they have amply demonstrated to the world in countless other ways.

  17. Klaus Bloemker
    June 1, 2009, 7:12 pm

    Obama's real threat to Israel's survival —————————————————– The main threat that Obama poses to the Israeli Jews is racial: He is the child of a mixed marriage – something Jewish identity (believing in the 'holy seamen of Abraham') dreads. I never understood why Hitler wanted a 'pure German' people – and I don't understand why the Jews want it.

  18. Colin_Murray
    June 1, 2009, 7:24 pm

    Good grief, Ed. Hyperbolism, windbaggery, and posturing are hardly unique to the Jewish people. ALL politicians and political operatives do it. Singling out Jews for doing it is antisemitic. You are attempting to smear an entire people for the transparent and silly words of a few desperate nutcases. You want hyperbolic? Remember 'Mushroom cloud' Condi Rice? You want lying windbags? How about everyone who has ever worked as a White House spokesperson? You want posturing? How about I-talk-tough-because-I'm-not-really-tough-and-I-don't-want-anyone-to-know-so-I-overcompensate Pres. Bush? Don't forget Poland!

  19. RowanBerkeley
    June 1, 2009, 7:31 pm

    Ed, you are totally frothing. ;-)

  20. RowanBerkeley
    June 1, 2009, 7:32 pm

    Colin, you are grasping at thin air — not even at straws.

  21. RowanBerkeley
    June 1, 2009, 7:33 pm

    You have a friend called Bernie? Is he the same as Sheila Samples' friend Bernie? :-)

  22. Mooser
    June 1, 2009, 7:35 pm

    "I have to wonder how much of the Talmud-like documentation of Jewish vicimhood was performed for situations just like this — so buttons in the collective memory of humanity could be installed and easily pushed at opportune times." Hey, Ed! What's grey and carries a trunk? Yes, Ed, you're right. It's irrelevant.

  23. Mooser
    June 1, 2009, 7:37 pm

    Colin, those were examples of the moderate traditional American Christian ethic. Whoops, I forgot, there were Jews at the bottom of the well.

  24. Mooser
    June 1, 2009, 7:38 pm

    "Good grief, Ed. Hyperbolism, windbaggery, and posturing are hardly unique to the Jewish people." Ed sure gave us his best example of it. With extra added reverence for the cross.

  25. Mooser
    June 1, 2009, 7:45 pm

    You are getting there, Ed. You still can't indict Christians without sticking a "Judeo" on the front of it, but someday you might actually challenge "the rest of us". Oh, Ed, I've been meaning to ask. Is "the rest of us" like "the silent majority?" Or is it more like "the moral majority"? Oh, I see, it's "post-Christian" having been, I can only assume, mongrelised by Jews. Or was it science, oooh, big bad scary science, and the ultimate devil, Darwin?

  26. Mooser
    June 1, 2009, 7:47 pm

    (believing in the 'holy seamen of Abraham') The ancient Jewish maritime tradition began with Noah, and was a big factor in the Diaspora. Shalom and Ahoy!

  27. Mooser
    June 1, 2009, 7:57 pm

    something Jewish identity (believing in the 'holy seamen of Abraham') dreads. You should tell that to the literally millions of children of mixed marriages. There are experimental Japanese -Jewish marriages now in an effort to breed a a person who can handle an izmel or a nihinto equally well. In short (wnich he'll probably be) don't believe everything you hear about Jews. The stuff may be holy, but we'll share it with anyone available, just like anybody else.

  28. Klaus Bloemker
    June 1, 2009, 8:58 pm

    I of course mean 'seed/semen/sperm' not seamen/maritim people – you sea(!) I'm not a native English writer. – "The stuff may be holy, but we'll share it with anyone available, just like anybody else." – Moser In 1933 in Germany leading Zionists agreed with Hitler that Germans and Jews were different peoples who should not intermarry. Hitler believed in a superior Aryan gen pool – likewise did these Jews ( believing in the 'holy semen of Abraham'.) Anyway, we are not Germany 1933 – but in 2009 Israel still has no civil (inter)marriage.

  29. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 9:00 pm

    "You are attempting to smear an entire people for the transparent and silly words of a few desperate nutcases." The Left does this all the time to Christianity; the Jewish Trotskyite left in particular, but really pretty much all left-liberals. Organized Jewry does this to both Christianity and Islam as well. They can dish it out, but they can't take it.

  30. LanceThruster
    June 1, 2009, 9:03 pm

    LOL. Not likely. He also goes by the name "Winston Smith". He's seen so much Zionist harrassment that he prefers his anonymity. For the record, here's the piece he was referring to: Israeli proposal: Make Jordan the official Palestinian homeland

  31. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 9:22 pm

    Oh, I see. The Left's atheism, victim ethos, social narcissism and quest for political monopoly are oh-so scientific. Communism was such a smashingly scientific success, wasn't it, Mooser? You speak of Darwin? I'm sure he'd get a big belly-laugh out of control-freak, politically authoritarian left-wing Statists invoking the concepts of scientific, academic and political freedom. Besides, haven't Darwin and his 'survival of the fittest' theories been more or less rebuked by the “secular” Church of the Left-liberal Statism?

  32. Mooser
    June 1, 2009, 9:29 pm

    Hey, Ed, how does this fit into your "post-Christian" scenario? Are these guys in "the rest of us" or are they Zionist Statists? ” target=”_blank”> "Jesus killed Mohammed: The crusade for a Christian military"

  33. Mooser
    June 1, 2009, 9:31 pm

    "Left-wing hyper-secularism is the tool of imperialism, because a religious people are resistant to the empty materialism, social pornography and cultural pollution" Sure, Ed, You won't find a bit of that here: ” target=”_blank”> "Jesus killed Mohammed: The crusade for a Christian military"

  34. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 9:32 pm

    What, the Jewish Bolshevik murder of millions of Christians? Oh, you're referring to the Holocaust, which came after and was basically authoritarian ethnic Germans emulating the actions of authoritarian ethnic Jews in the Soviet Union. So what's your point?

  35. Mooser
    June 1, 2009, 9:40 pm

    Klaus, the homonyms in English are indeed a pain in the butt. But that notwithstanding I think you are right about Israel and civil inter-marriage. Maybe Jake can tell us. I know that Israel is not anything I would, as an American, recognise as a democracy. It's more like something like Ed wishes America was like, only with crosses instead of the Mogen David. See, if Judaism informs your government, you're screwed, it sucks. Ah, but if moderate Christianity informs your government, what a wonderful world it could be. Klaus, don't confuse what the Israeli ruling class ordains with what Jews all over the world do, They're quite different. Outside of Israel Jews intermarry at ever increeasing rates. And the only things holding them back are social, not Talmudic dictums. They've been dicked enough by that.

  36. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 10:46 pm

    Those guys? Judeo-Christians. And yes, no doubt pro-Zionist. Now who was it again that spent decades conflating American patriotism and Zionism? Was that the Christian lobby, or was that the primarily Jewish Israel lobby? Who was it that harbored the Jewish Zionists for decades and cultivated their growth to the point that they now comprise around 20% of the Democrats in the Senate and 11% of the Democrats in the House even though Jews are less than 2% of the country? Was that the Christian Right or the Democratic Party? And you mean to infer that even though we now know the Iraq war was fought primarily at the behest of Israel with the Democrats' enthusiastic support, it was Christians pulling the strings behind the whole enterprise because they wanted a new crusade? Mooser, you're back at square one where Weiss picked this issue up. Just like the Jewish Zionists and the liberals, you're forever trying to scapegoat others for the actions of Jews themselves. No accountability. Unwillingness to take responsibility. Arrested development.

  37. Senhal
    June 1, 2009, 10:47 pm

    Oh, Ed. Here I go in another thread and say that I think your arguments are occasionally to quickly stereotyped here, and then you go on a highly stereotypical rampage… (Incidentally, how about actually reading some Marx? Here are some links: ” target=”_blank”> ” target=”_blank”> ” target=”_blank”> And here are two relevant statements by the (Jewish) Revolutionary Communist League of Palestine: ” target=”_blank”>… ” target=”_blank”> )

  38. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 11:15 pm

    The link was not intneded as an indictment of homosexuals. I don’t give a damn what consenting adults do behind closed doors, but certain lifestyle-liberals want to use the State to throw their fetishes in the world’s face, and force acceptance, codification and state-endorsement of their “alternative” moral system. Authoritarian Jews have the same modus operandi. All of this flies in the face of libertarianism.

  39. Ed
    June 1, 2009, 11:39 pm

    Did you read the link? I think it's a fair question. I don't care about consenting adults, but face it: a lot of these lifestyle-liberals partnering with the left are utter perverts completely beyond the pale (and wouldn't you know, the ADL is right there, backing them up from behind). Honestly, how far can a coalition between Muslims and the pervert-Left really go? How long will any self-respecting Muslim be willing to make common cause with people like that?

  40. Laura
    June 1, 2009, 11:49 pm

    My goodness, people of all religions just might have to live in legal equality in "the only democracy in the middle east".

  41. Laura
    June 1, 2009, 11:55 pm

    Intermarriage is the future. Young people are naturally attracted to others of different culture and nationality. It's also the only solution to human tribalism. Yes, the majority of American Jews marry out. My father did. And yeah, my father's children don't see the point of a separatist, segregationist Israel. We want Jews and non-Jews to be free and equal before the law.

  42. americangoy
    June 2, 2009, 1:59 am

    "With Amalek in Iran, and the Pharoah running things in DC, Israel will really have its work cut out for it. " I LOL'ed :-) Good luck, Adam and especially you, crazy Weiss man you ;-)

  43. Jacobwolfen
    June 2, 2009, 2:55 am

    There is only one simple way, forcing the Arab countries, Hamas, and the PA into obeying those laws. Until then, nothing will happen before you turn to dust.

  44. Jacobwolfen
    June 2, 2009, 2:57 am

    The actual details are up your ass. Go look for it.

  45. LanceThruster
    June 2, 2009, 5:02 pm

    You contribute nothing to the discussion. Working link: ” target=”_blank”>…

  46. Tripwire
    June 2, 2009, 8:09 pm

    Yo, dog, here's how it's gonna come down. Obama has heard all the hasbara he can take, thank you very much. He's gonna insist on a two-state solution. To achieve that, there needs to be a freeze on settlements. If Bibi refuses, the US will force the govenment of Israel to hold elections to replace Bibi with someone more moderate. What will happen next is that Obama will involve the world community to provide NATO troops to move the borders back to pre-1967. All the settlements will become property of the new Palestinian state. Illegal settlers can either return to Israel, or be Palestinian citizens. A multinational peacekeeping force will be put in place to prevent the Likudniks from rioting. The "special relationship" ended when the IDF used white phosphorus weapons to incinerate women and children in Operation Cast Lead. History will show it was Israel's biggest mistake to launch such a savage attack on innocent people in the weeks before Obama took office. Man, what the hell was Israel thinking??

  47. Tripwire
    June 2, 2009, 8:18 pm

    "Natural growth?" Yeah, sure, but not in occupied territory. The 1967 borders are making a comeback in a big way.

  48. Margaret
    June 3, 2009, 5:37 am

    Ed – are you here to fight against those of the left who attack Christianity, or to combat the Israeli state? Israel betrays Judaism, in my opinion, even if an effective propaganda campaign, united with the religious bigotry of some, has brainwashed many Jews into believing it exists to defend the Jewish people. Your perspective contradicts mine. I don't mind agreeing to disagree on matters of religion -I think the Christians are guilty of as much damage as any other religion with similar power- but do mind your thesis that there is an organized Jewish Left, intent on destroying Christianity. It sounds a lot like the Protocols of Zion. Those on the left are a diverse group; some hate, many don't. Some are religious; many aren't. You haven't produced convincing arguments that Jews as a group are malefactors, while there are many that Israel acts in ways that destabilize our world and endanger everyone by providing examples of hatred exercised in pursuit of increased power. I would note that in doing this I consider Israel to be partnered by many in the US, who have managed to get that example followed in US policy, if they are not themselves a part of the Israeli power structure, and using Israel to create an example by which to guide the US in a modern continuation of trends common in the US since its inception. But I don't see those actors as limited to people who are Jewish, instead consider them again diverse people united in a belief that individual power and wealth are more important than the rights of individuals to a peaceful and safe life. Instead of dividing those who contest the actions of Israel by political or religious beliefs, we need to unite in pursuit of sufficient power ourselves to require acknowledgment of universal human rights. IMHO

  49. Margaret
    June 3, 2009, 5:47 am

    Forgot the importance of racism in the Israeli mindset. Also, of all the people I've known who might be considered "on the left," none, not one, has ever associated their politics with being Jewish, except in defending human rights in part because of the historical persecution of Jews. People who united politically for the purpose of attacking Christianity wouldn't be likely to do so, IMO.

  50. Jake in Jerusalem
    June 3, 2009, 4:01 pm

    Yasser Arafat himself first preferred this plan. He began his first Intifada in Jordan, against the Hashemite monarchy which had stolen 3/4 of historic Palestine from the Palestinean people for itself. King Hussein responded by killing nearly 10,000 Palestineans in just a few weeks. That first Initifada died out real quick. Arafat then decided (correctly) that it would be much easier to get land from the Jews on the West Bank of Palestine, and gave up (temporarily) on the Jordanian-Occupied East Bank of Palestine. It was called Black September of 1970. Look it up anywhere. Jordan is Palestine. Always has been. Check it out.

  51. stevieb
    June 10, 2009, 1:54 pm

    That's nonsense, Ed. Whose this "Left" you keep talking about? I'm on the left – tell me what it is that I "can't take"? Or better – tell me how you think 'The Left' views Christianity because it's hard to know where you are coming from when you make such meaningless or ambiguous comments..

  52. stevieb
    June 10, 2009, 1:59 pm

    I never trust those who identify themselves as Christians while attacking left-leaning ideas in such trivial and confused terms. There is absolutely nothing Christian in that. If Jesus were alive today he would be a 'Leftist'(as 'defined' by Ed). But that would be obvious to a real Christian….

  53. stevieb
    June 10, 2009, 2:05 pm

    Who spent decades conflating American patriotism and Zionism? The Christian right that's who. They are the ones who talk patriotism not Jewish Zionists. They are the ones who so insidiously conflated liberal values with supporting Israel. Are you denying the Christian right's role in the Israel lobby Ed? I hope not…

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