A friend writes:
The incident you reported, of the Israelis attacking and boarding the Spirit of Humanity en route to Gaza, carries a strangely powerful resonance against the incident of the ship Exodus 1947--the British refusal of refugees on that boat after the war, which drew the world's sympathy and inspired a stronger resistance against British rule in Palestine. It was the germ of the novel and movie of that title.
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- RT @MhmdGaza: @anniefofani Just read your article at Mondoweiss abt Wala's visit to Jerusalem. same here,I should be in Jerusalem in July :…, 18 hours ago
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Gaza boat, Spirit of Inhumanity, draws the world's laughter, much as this site draws mine.
RE: 'Exodus' drew the world's sympathy. Will Gaza boat? ***From: US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation (uscampaign@mail.democracyinaction.org) Take Action to Free the Spirit of Humanity's Passengers and Crew Please send an email to the Israeli Prime Minister's office, the Israeli Defense Ministry, the Israeli Ambassador to the United States, and your Members of Congress demanding that The Spirit of Humanity's passengers and crew are released! ***TO SEND – http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/641/t/2439/c...
***FROM A.N.S.W.E.R. – Demand the release of the humanitarian activists illegally detained by Israel! Take action now! Send a letter (via E-mail) to the White House and the representatives and senators from your state demanding the release of the human rights activists being held by Israel and an end to the siege of Gaza! ***TO SEND E-MAILS – https://secure2.convio.net/pep/site/Advocacy?cmd=...
You can also do email from the Arab Defamation League website.
Has the incisdent had any coverage in the MS media? The only reference to it I heard was on this website?
Very scant coverage. Christian Science Monitor, Associated Press, AFP, British press. In the US, a passing reference in CBS News website (a news round-up that's more concerned with the weirdness of the life of Michael Jackson than the abduction of human rights workers) and a blurb on Fox News. Nothing from Maddow or Olbermann. Philip coined the expression — PEP. Progressive Except on Palestine.
It will eventually, but it will take something dramatic to get that much attention. The Palestinians are not well-served by the exagerated use of the term "genocide" to describe the situation. It ends up giving cover to dismiss the story.
The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee [ADC] also has provided an easy way to send emails regarding this situation to our [US] elected representatives. ***TO SEND E-MAILS – http://capwiz.com/adc/issues/alert/?alertid=13656...
Like a real investigative reporter showing how this is the latest in a string of such boats sent to Gaza but derailed by Israel. Too much to ask, I guess. Nothing short of Obama himself standing at the front of the boat would bring any attention.
RE: 'Exodus' drew the world's sympathy. Will Gaza boat? A RELATED POST: "Pirates of the Mediterranean", By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS, 07/01/09 (EXCERPT) …As President Obama has called for humanitarian aid to be sent to Gaza, and as the International Red Cross has damned the inhumanity of Israel’s blockade of Gaza, the question that immediately comes to mind is why did not the United States send sufficient US Navy escort to see the “Spirit of Humanity” safely through international waters to Gaza? We send ships against Somalian pirates, why not against Israeli ones? We all know the answer. The US talks a good “human rights” game, but never delivers–especially if the human rights abuser is Israel. After all, Israel owns the US Congress and President Obama. Israel even has an Israeli citizen and former member of the Israeli Defense Forces as the Chief-of-Staff in Obama’s White House. Israel owns millions of American “Christian Zionists” and “rapture evangelicans.” When it comes to Israel, the American government is a puppet state. It does what it is told….. ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to counterpunch.org
How and why are such reports ignored? I guess the Palestinian story will be told favorably when Palestinians are prominent in Hollywood, publishing, finance and in the MSM.
You just don't know genocide. There were a million "Palestinians in 1948 and there are about 5 or 6 million now. Isn't that genocide?
People don't care because everyone on the boat will be released. It's not like they are being held like Shalit by Palestinian terrorists.
RE: 'Exodus' drew the world's sympathy. Will Gaza boat? A RELATED ARTICLE "Breaking the Siege of Gaza: Governments Refuse While Citizens Act", by Ann Wright, O7/01/09 (EXCERPT) When our governments refuse to act to stop the 22 month illegal and inhumane siege, blockade, quarantine of Gaza, citizens have stepped in to challenge the blockade. Since the December, 2008-january, 2009 Israeli attack on Gaza six months ago that killed 1440 persons, including 400 children, wounded over 5,000 and made 70,000 homeless, the international community has sent no aid to Gaza, no reconstruction materials — nothing…. ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to commondreams.org
There is also a US Gaza Relief Convoy forming up to bring supplies overland from Egypt via the Rafah crossing, led by Vietnam Veteran anti-war activist Ron Kovic and British MP George Galloway. People are preparing to gather in Cairo (leaving the US on July 4!), including a large number of Arab/Muslim-Americans, and attempt to reach Gaza the following week. See: link to vivapalestina-us.org where you can also make a donation.
Gilad Shalit is a soldier, and the IDF is engaged in war on the Palestinian population. He's fair game. Besides, I get tired of the stupid game that Jews and Israelis play about being innocents. The kidnapping is a tit-for-tat game that the Israelis play with the enemies they've made. I get so tired of hearing the toughest people on earth cry at every turn, when they are brutalizing their enemies. I also tire of having to monetarily support the richest people on earth, and of seeing my govenrment regiured to give intellectual and moral cover to the smartest and most moral people on the planet. Screw Israel, and the Jewish community for supporting it.
Thanks, that's the one l meant. They make contact easy with their template.
I guess there was no genocide of jews judging by the stats before and after WW2. Actually a much stronger case if you look at the stats, against the official figures of how many died. In contrast, the Palestinians are very prolific generally while only the orthodox jews are so.
Or being held and tortured like those 11,000 Palestininans kidnapped and held indefinitely by Israel.
Ron Kovic? He's nothing next to the former American Jew who murdered all those arabs at prayer. Zionist Jews have their own version of Audie Murphy. Their model hero is Heydrich or the pimp who wrote Die Fahne Hoch, Horst Wessel. Stirs the soul. Especially when you are living in essentially a gated community of your own kind, protected by goy cops there, and protected by goy troops in areas near Israel. Ask Witty. He's a perfect example.
Why doen't the US simply deliver humanitarian supplies to Gaza? What would be the negatives besides angering Israel? It seems the positives would be substantial? I am not the smartest person in this group so what am missing?
You're missing the fact that, morally, America sides with Israel. Sending aid to Hamas is like sending aid to Nazi Germany during WWII. Once Hamas is gone, we will help the people of Gaza.
Ever wonder why? Because the Gazan were screwed over trying to murder Israelis. The world doesn't give a shit about the murderous scum living in Gaza. Only antisemites, like Strahl, care. And he only cvares if it helps kill Jews.
Please send an email to the Israeli Prime Minister's office, the Israeli Defense Ministry, the Israeli Ambassador to the United States, and your Members of Congress demanding that the miscreants arrested are prosecuted to the full extent of the law, especially McKinney. She should be held as an enemy combatant.
Those supporting Philip are supposedly IOEBP – Intelligent on everything but palestine. But wether or not they are actually intelligent on any subject is up for debate.
You obviously aren't an American if you believe that most Americans would voluntarily give money to support Israel, or willingly fight to serve Israel's interests. The situation as it exists will end, and calling rational people Nazis or anti-Semites will get you nowhere.
Thank you for outing yourself as a neo-Nazi. The only places that make that claim are neo-Nazi web sites. The ones that start "dear Aryan brothers". You are a Holocaust denying neo-Nazi piece of shit. Go fuck yourself.
Correct. Gilad Shalit is a soldier and the Palestinians choose to be at war with the Israelis. Gilad Shalit was a legitimate target and his capture was an act of war. The only thing that makes it a war crime is that the Palestinians are not providing him with his legitimate rights as a POW. Oh, and if they weren't wearing uniforms at the time they captured him, that would also be a war crime. Of course, that works both ways. The recent attack against the Palestinian military forces in Gaza was also a legitimate act of war. As is the blockade. Frankly, I wish neither side would complain about the legitimate acts of war of the other side. The Israelis could stick to complaining about the lack of POW rights for Gilad Shalit, and the Palestinians could shut up in general.
Arrested and not tortured.
89 children among the civilians killed, not 400. They also killed over 700 terrorists. If the Palestinians have a complaint about their civilians getting killed in the crossfire of an attack against their terrorists, perhaps they should locate their terrorists a safe distance away from their civilians. If they want to mix the terrorists in with their civilians like raisins in raisin-bread then some of the bread is going to get ripped up if someone goes hunting for the raisins.
One difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians is that the most Israelis revile Jewish terrorist Baruch Goldstein while the Palestinians practically worship Palestinian terrorists (they name schools after them). The people who think Baruch Goldstein was a hero are a tiny minority. Much like the people like you who would give Heydrich a big sloppy kiss if he were still alive are a tiny minority.
Calling irrational Nazis and anti-Semites "Nazis" or "anti-Semites" won't get anyone anywhere either. The truth is the truth, not a means to an end.
1) 1/3 of the Jewish people were murdered, annihilated, by the Nazis in WW II. 2) Arabs suffered from HORRIFYING child mortality rates until Westerners helped them. Gazans died of cholera, as well. I lived just outside Gaza City in the 1960's and remember it well. It was under ISRAELI RULE that the lot of Arabs improved dramatically – economically and demographically. Now that the Pals are under Arab rule again, they are suffering. Surprise!
Also, not held indefinitely. They are prisoners serving time with release dates waiting for them. Shalit is a hostage, held indefinitely by a Palestinean Terrorist Group that refuses to allow him Red Cross visits, in violation of Geneva Conventions. Watch the many "Human Rights Groups" completely ignore Gilad Shalit's rights… Mondo Rights???
If I am not mistaken, supporting the Islamo-Fascist Palestinean Terrorist Group HAMAS is a violation of US law. I don't think the US govt is in a rush to violate US law. As for sending "huminitarian supplies", these can and are sent overland via Egypt and Israel, which both control border crossings with Egypt. The boat in this story is simply a bunch of loony attention seekers who want to defy border controls. They would be arrested in most any country that actually has borders and border controls. Israel isn't any different than any other country in this respect.
Sure, Thom, the Palestinians chose to have their land conficated and occupied. They were begging for it, weren't they?
The term anti-Semite means absolutely nothing, and I seriously doubt that any members of the NSDAP pot here. You have no point at all, Thom.
Todd, you are obviously ignorant. And you are not reasonable. Rational people will give you good reasons to believe the world is flat. I count you among those people. reasonable people will show you how the world is round. You are just rational.
Gilad Shalit should definitely be sent home. Piece by piece by piece. Death to the Israelis and their Nazi supporters.
Every additional day Israel remains in the Occupied Territories should cause Gilad Shalit to be stabbed and raped. FUCK the israelis. DEATH to the israelis. DEATH to them.
Like you're one to talk. You never say a damn thing about the conflict – you focus primarily on peripheral issues like antisemitism. In fact, that's the ONLY thing you talk about. Thom/Euro/Witty – at least have an opinion on this stuff. Witty is more rhetorical though. You're just tool.
Thom, don't be so blatantly dishonest. Did you not read the above 2 posts? One guy said there was no genocide (there wasn't anyways) because there are more Palestinians now than before (this does not negate the ethnic cleansing). Then the other guy made an analogy by saying there are more Jews now than before. Both are superficial statements and the latter commentator was illustrating this superficiality. This had nothing to do with Holocaust denial. Even a glance at the latter's comment would prove this. You are being intellectually dishonest (and a douchebag).
Palestinians are suffering because of Zionist sadism. The blockade/indiscriminate aerial bombing (because you cowards are afraid of women and children)/etc.
Moron, there were more Jews before WWII than there are now (17 million vs. 13 million). http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewi... You can't even get your facts right, why should anyone listen to the rest of the bs you spew?
LI, notice how people ignore your posts? If you actually had the mental capacity of a functioning adult, you'd realize that meant they figured out how worthless you and your posts are.
Don't hold your breath.
Most Israelis love Baruch Goldstein and Meir Kahane and Begin and all the other Jewish terrorists. This is not a symmetrical comparison. It's like saying the racism on both sides is the same. True, the hatred as an end result is the same but it has different origins and is of a different nature. Tribal Jews and Zionists versus Palestinians is a relationship of Master vs. Slave. I can understand hating your oppressor (I don't condone the conflation with ALL Jews, considering some of the well-known champions for the Palestinian cause are Jews – btw, this does not mean it's ONLY Jews, there are plenty of Palestinians of course, but they are not given as much spot-light. And this is demonstrated again and again in studies on racism between the two peoples. It's overwhelmingly the Jews in Israel who are more racist. And this is more significant than if it were the Palestinians because we can factor in the poverty/higher murder count by Israeli terrorist soldiers/political repression/discrimination/abuse and humiliation/etc. that Palestinians endure under Zionist rule. Meanwhile, Jews live in their comfortable bubble. They – just by being Jews – represent a symbolic social pressure in the world. In the West – where it matters – Jews are not treated the same as non-Jews, at the very least – socially. Arabs and Muslims are regularly insulted and mocked in the mainstream and in films. This is completely opposite for Jews. Jews are also much more wealthy and affluent and their affluence matters. A moneyed Arab can be easily replaced (divide and conquer). This is how typically shallow our discussion on racism is in the West. It's always equated. People do not ask WHY people hate others though. And by comparing the 'why' we can learn something about both groups. So I wouldn't blame Blacks hating Whites during Slavery. I won't blame Palestinians for hating Jews. Even though, that hatred is inherently wrong.
If Americans were better educated on the conflict they would quite naturally spit on Zionists and tribal Jews. That would be the only moral course of action. Zionists are crooks and they prey on the weak and oppressed. They are thieves/murderers/vandals/etc.
I wasn't saying *I* believed it you douchebag. I was explaining the latter poster's meaning. I mean, just read my post again and tell me where I said I agreed with his assertions (on the facts, not on the meaning of the analogy rhetorically speaking). Learn reading comprehension, seriously. The point was that despite the ethnic cleansing of 800K Palestinians – their numbers have increased to 5 million roughly. In refugee camps though and I do believe their is a correlation between poverty and high birth-rates. These are superficial statements that are meaningless. Tons of people can die and suffer, and yet their numbers can increase in time – that's easily possible. 6 million Jews died and they are almost back to what they once were before. So let's say some more years pass and there are more Jews than before. Some fucking tool (like yourself) could come in and say the Holocaust was no big deal because there are more Jews now. And there you go – that's the point. This logic trivializes the suffering of the people in question (whether it be Jews or Palestinians) in their tragedy (Holocaust/Naqba[sp]) by making a context-less observation (in and of itself, superficial).
No my people love me. Some just pretend they don't for PR purposes. Remember Bernays (Even Goebbels did)!
Hey, no biggie–Jewish groups were called terrorist and it didn't stop them in the Mandate. Some of their leaders became heads of the Israel state. Yeah, Israel is just like the USA or any european nation.
Is Arab Defamation League another name for Abe Foxman's Anti-Defamation League? ;o} PS For future reference, it is American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee.
thats a good one, instead of the world wide Jewish conspiracy, the world wide Palestinian conspiracy.
He did not make an analogy about Jews now vs Jews just before WWII. No, he said that there were more Jews judging by the stats before and after WWII. As in, from 1937 (before WWII) to late 1945 (after WWII). 6 million of us died, about a third of the worldwide population and this scumbag has the indecency to lie about it. As I said, the only place I found in a Google search making that claim started "Dear Aryan Brothers". As I said, he did not say "before WWII and now 64 years later". Even if he had, the analogy doesn't hold up. The Palestinian population (counting as Palestinians the Arabs who didn't think of themselves as Palestinians until 1967) has increased every week of the last 61 years. Heck, except for random fluctuations of birth and death it has almost certainly increased every day of the last 61 years.
They are ignored because nobody cares what happens to terrorists and their supporters.
We are not ignoring his posts. We are holding them up as the typical Philip Weiss supporter.
Todd, you've just proven that many things such as honesty, truth, etc also means absolutely nothing to you.
Poor Strahl. He can't understand why most educated people quite naturally spit on him.
Yes, so sadistic of the Jews they are trying to murder to _give_ them less than all the electricity they want, less than all the food they want, less than all the fuel they want. What an ungrateful bunch of assholes the Palestinians are. What nation in history has actually provided electricity to people that are actively making war on them? Of course, the main problem is that the Israelis are too nice in the short run. Like someone who can't stand the immediate suffering caused by pouring antiseptic on someone's wound so instead they let it get infected.
If Americans were better educated on the conflict they would quite naturally ask why the Israelis are being so nice to the Palestinians.
Nice to know you advocate war crimes. It discredits everything else you might say.
They choose to be at war with Israel rather than surrendering. There was more than enough land for both, the U.N. partition gave land to both. The Arabs wanted everything for themselves and to kill all the Jews. So yes, they were begging for it. Despite that, the Arabs kept most of the land that was supposed to be an Arab state according to the U.N. Partition. Then they again chose to try to take everything, and lost again. Instant karma. They tried to kill the Jews and take the Jews' land, instead, the Jews won and took the Arabs' land. Even after that, the Israelis have offered to give it to the Palestinians in exchange for a peace treaty, but the Palestinians won't make peace unless they get everything (including Israel, see:right of return). Nothing changes. Rather than accepting their share, they demand that they get everything and the Jews get nothing.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I just re-read his comment and I do not know how you can possibly extract that meaning. 'thedhimmi' says that 5 million Palestinians are alive today as opposed to 1 million before. Then he mockingly says 'isn't that genocide'? And obviously, his point is that there wasn't a genocide of Palestinians. I agree, there was not – but there was an ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Now, then Citizen makes a parallel to the Jews of Europe before and after the Nazis. He is obviously mirroring 'thedhimmi' in his analogy. '[...]6 million of us died' Ok, see, now really deserve an Oscar. Citizen did not deny the Holocaust. You're just grasping at straws. And to top it off, here you are getting unnecessarily personal – "US". I'm Indian, yet I have never brought up the British colonialism of India and blah blah blah. Wanna know why? I'm AMERICAN! I was born here. You're like the dentist from Seinfeld who converts to Judaism and immediately and hilariously talks about how 'his people' have suffered for so long (as if he too has suffered). Considering your other comments, these theatrics are not beyond you. Chillax.
Jews make up all the major movers in Hollywood and of course they function as the 'producers' of Hollywood culture by and large. They aren't the only guys doing it, but they make up the majority. How is this controversial? You clowns paint a drastically different picture of our country – and it's all rhetorical. Even Jews have come out and said 'Jews control Hollywood.' (I don't like the way that's put because it's not exact, and you have to be exact otherwise ass-clowns like you people will make a big deal about it.) Ben Stein and some random guy who was on E! and even wrote about it in the LA Time after Abe Foxman released a poll saying most Americans do not believe it (total bullshit, considering the other polls the ADL releases).
Typical? You're probably LI.
The political party Goldstein belonged to was made illegal in response to his actions. Most Israelis loath him. The Palestinians aren't slaves. The Israelis don't want them to work for free, they just want them to stop trying to murder the Israelis. I know it is a lot to ask, but please stop trying to kill us so we can stop wasting our energy preventing you from killing us. It is overwhelmingly the Palestinians who are blowing up buses and attacking civilians in restaurants. The murder count of Israelis on Palestinians is minuscule compared to the murder count of Palestinians on Israelis. When Israel goes after a terrorist, the people who die aren't murdered by the Israelis. Well, admittedly, Jews do make up a disproportionate number of doctors, lawyers and scientists. Oh, and have won about 1/4 of all Nobel prizes, despite being about two or three out of every 1000 people in the world. While Arabs make up a disproportionate number of what? Disproportionately small number of nobel prizes. about 1/100. Despite being 1/5 of the world population. They get mocked in some films for the same reason that the German's got mocked in Hogan's Heroes. Not all Germans were the enemy, but that show portrayed ones who were.
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. THE DEAD LIVE! THE DEAD FUCKING LIVE!!!! KILL IT!! KILL IT!!!!
The number of Jews still isn't as high as it was before WWII so what point are you trying to make?
What's so wrong with Jews being prominent in Hollywood?
What makes you believe Americans don't want to send aide to Israel?
Moron, I got the point. The point I was making was that the truth and facts actually matter in a debate, so if you can't get them right the rest of the discussion is irrelevant. Capice?
Good point. I've also noticed that some of his posts have been removed – he's really doing a good job.
I disagree. The definition of genocide is and I quote: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. Just for that horrible old man Gold Meir to claim there is no such thing as a Palestinian exposes the genocidal nature of Zionism. The versions of history written by colonizers support the colonization process by denying the existence of colonization. Israel has to justify it's existence by denying there was ever a people to begin with. "There is no such thing as a Palestinian." "we made the desert bloom" and quoting ad nauseum Mark Twain that "Palestine was an empty wasteland." "we bought the land from absentee landowners". Anyone can look at the UN 1947 map of Palestine to see otherwise. And the facts go deeper than that anyway. In fact, every lie the Zionists have told is easily debunked by a little research which is Israel's worst enemy. The mere fact that Israel is attempting to rid Palestine of it's people is genocide. They don't care if they murder them or they just leave as long as they are gone. Arabriddin. That's genocide. If the people of Palestine were not out to achieve statehood originally which was a Western invention anyway, the Arabs did have a contract with the Western powers for a single unified Arab state spanning from Aleppo in Syria to Aden in Yemen. The Zionists skip over this and tell us "look, they did not even want a Palestinian state" as if that translated into an empty wasteland. We are suppose to believe that the Arabs immigrated to Palestine because the Jews had arrived with jobs to offer! Really! The Zionists brought with them their own slave labor force which was every non Ashkenazim (European) Jew! The intention from beginning to end was to rid Palestine of it's native inhabitants and usurp resources anywhere it pleased from the Middle East if it means killing everyone to do it. And we have seen plenty evidence of that. What is NOT genocidal about Israel? Where is the stretch here? A good source to read:link to kinghussein.gov.jo
That's becsue the electricity, the food and the fuel they want is enough to survice on. On the other thread you're complaining that the boytcott of Israel is collective punichment, yet a blockade is what, an act of generosity? Palesinains are not actively making war with Israel. Israel has had Gaza under siege for 2 years and the Palestinians are resisting. How dare they not go and die quietly right Thom? I'm sure the Gemrans provided electricity to the Jews and in concentration camps too, even though they were convinced the Jews were at war with them. Israel's too nice? Isn't 400 masacred children enough for your bloodlust Thom?
You defend Israel, and justify their war crimes ergo – you advicate war crimes too. Hypocrite.
Surredering would mean dying quietly rather than fighting for their rights. Surrendering means giving up hope. As for the UN Partitioon, even Israel rejected that you moron. Which is why they drive 800,00 0Arabs from their land. It wasn't enough for Israel. Before the 1948 war, Israel were already massacaring Arabs in towns like Deir Yassin. Israel started the 1967 war to steal the West Bank and the Golan. Begin and Shamir both admit this. Israel have never offered a peace treaty to the Palestinians. Camp David was a joke and Barak and Clinton knew it, which is why they invited Arafat to a subsequent meeting at Taba. It was a Taba that both leaders said they were on the verge of an agreement, but the meeting was vut short due to the Israel elections, whcih Sharon won. You're lies are pathetic and old Thom. Groth the hell up and stop wanting everyone's time with this crap. It's BS and you know it.
On the contrary Thom, as americans are becomming better eduated as to the conflict, support for Israel has started plummeting. Even the right wing evangelicals and turning away. The rest of the world is certainly educated as to the conflict, which is why Israel's reputation is about as bad as Iran's.
"They are ignored because nobody cares what happens to terrorists and their supporters." But that can't be true Ishmail. After all, you and Thom care very much about Israel, a state founded on terrorism by terrorist, which went on to elect 2 terrorist to lead the country and which celebrated the 60th anniversary of a terrost act commintedin it's name in 2006 (the Bombing of the King David Hotel).
Actually Goldstein's grave has become a shrine to the settler movement and he is revered, just like Jonatah Pollard. And please stop boring us with the lies about how you are just defending yourselves. A rapist doesn't get to claim self defense when the victim fights back and he then ends up killing her. Israel has blown up many more busses and and attacked far more civlians that the Palestinians. In fact, Israel has always targetted civilians. There are countless quotes from Israelis who admit that Israel targets civilans and a recent report that reveals Israel targetted civilians with their drones in Gaza. http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/io... Israel doesn't just go after terrorists, which is understandable , because Israel is a terrorist state. Arabs can boast about as many Nobel Preace Prizes as Chinese or Back Africans, so I suppose you believe that they too are sub humn to Jews. Thanks for your honesty. And in spite fo all those Nobel prices and academic achievements, Isael wouldn't last 1 year without US support, or at the very least, become a 3rd world country. All those brains and achievements and Israel stil can't afford to pay for it's own weapons. That explains why more people are leacing Israle than arrving. One-quarter of Israelis are considering leaving, including almost half of all young people. 44 %of Israelis say they would be ready to leave if they could find a better standard of living elsewhere,” and “over 100,000 Israelis have acquired European passports.” Translation. Israel is a lousy place to live. How pathetic!
Wrong as always Thom, But you already know that. 400 children were killed in Gaza and two thirds of those killed were women and children. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=124644... The figure of 700 is a number Israel pulled out of a hat. Of course, Israel did block all international reported from entering, violating the ruling of it's own supreme court (who ever said Israel was a land of laws?), because Israel didn't want reporters reporting what they saw they way they did in Lebanon in 2006. The trouble with using white phosphorous on civilians is that it can never be regarded as a precision guided weapon. Amnesty International just released a report that Israeli Troops Used Children as Human Shields in Gaza http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=124644... The report found that “much of the destruction was wanton and resulted from direct attacks on civilian objects as well as indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between legitimate military targets and civilian objects.” As with Lebanon in 2006, the truth is all coming out. This is what Israel didn’t want the world’s media to report.
"She should be held as an enemy combatant." Yes we know how you Israel suporters love your toture.
"Even Jews have come out and said 'Jews control Hollywood.' (I don't like the way that's put because it's not exact, and you have to be exact otherwise ass-clowns like you people will make a big deal about it.) " I've always disliked the game we have to play when discussing Jewish power and influence where the non-Jew has to produce a manifesto or chronicle to guess at Jewish intents and actions, a scholarly work accepted by Jews or outright admissions by Jewish actors, in order for honest inquiries or obvious facts to be considered. If those rules are our rules, we'll have to alter our culture and mode of government in order for Jews to have influence. I've often heard Jews talk about the "white man." Who has to produce evidence indicating that WASPs played a major role in U.S. history? And the ease with which many Jews blanket white Southerners to maintain civil rights credibility is easy to see. Shouldn't the rest of us be able to observe that Jews are very group oriented, whether they support Israel or not? We are affected by their presence.
Worse than Iran's actually. Global polls show Israel is considered the major threat to international peace and stability.
Which groups are labeled officially as terrorist is always a political decision made by the powers of the moment. Surely, the Jews know that? The Irgun was so labeled, as was the PLO, for example–too the US minutemen. Groups go on or off the official shit list over time, depending on shifting power complexes. Every regular on this blog knows this, and can cite historical examples. It's always a question of timing. The jews were not slaves in Egypt either, not in the same sense Africans were slaves in the USA. They were just indentured public works projects servants to Egypt, with certain rights, the same rights and privileges and insurance accorded other conquered tribes when Egypt decided on a cost-benefit analysis the jews were not worth much as military allies. What's overwhelming by an objective observer is the ratio of dead as between Israeli and Palestinian innocents. Jews win so many Nobel prizes due to Jewish networking. Also, the disproportionate number of doctors, lawyers, scientists as Jews is more than equalled by the disproportionate number of Jews involved in why the Goys have to bail out Wall St & Acorn & Fannies antics. Not all Jews were the enemy in the Merchant Of Venice, nor in any F. Celine novel, but the got mocked for the obvious. Not all Jews are the enemy, but those works portray Jews who were. that Egypt decided were less imp
So, Nazi Germany was invaded by Jews? Glad you agree with Hitler.
it's not like the IDF has never killed a civilian peace activist either.
Oh I get it, you are a Zionist.
yeah right. Kill all the jews. That's why Palestinian Jews defend their muslim brother Palestinians to this day. More than enough land to share SAYS WHO….the THIEF? That's funny! Take the Jews land??? You are assbackward. That doesn't fly. The rightful owner Jews were already there, liar. Palestinians don't want Israel FYI. They want their homeland back where the Zionists plopped their fat ass's on top of and squashed everyone there. Look at Arial Sharon, he looked like he ate Palestine all by himself. Gluttons.
Palestineans suffer because of their own decrepit "leadership". Arabs suffer for the same reasons. They ALL blame Israel. Just like you, Strahl, blame the Jews. You can't stand facts. So you prefer your bigotry. MondoStrahl, MondoBigot.
Ummm, Shalit was KIDNAPPED AFTER Israel EVACUATED EVERY LAST SQUARE CENTIMETER OF THE GAZA STRIP. No more occupation… Ignorant bigot.
Surrendering would mean getting their own nation. They are like someone who is being held down by a guy who he tried to kill. The guy says "if you agree to stop trying to kill me, you can get up". But he says "no deal". It costs Israel enormous resources keeping the Palestinians at bay. Those resources would much more profitably be used elsewhere. If only the Palestinians would make peace. The Arabs moved in for the kill, the Jews fought back. Some Arabs fled the fighting, others just planned to get out of the way to give the Arab armies a clear field to kill the Jews. There was a deal on the table, the Arabs rejected it. If I offer to sell you a car and you reject the deal and try to kill me and steal it, the previous offer is off the table. The Israelis have offered peace treaties constantly. They have practically begged the Palestinians to make peace. The Palestinians refuse unless the peace terms include the Palestinians getting all of Israel. What kills the peace process is the "right of return". The Israelis know that they and their families will be exterminated by the Palestinians if the Palestinians get it, so they won't agree to any deal with the right of return in it. The Palestinians refuse to make any deal without the right of return in it. Two questions for you to demonstrate the problem. 1) Have you ever heard any Palestinian with the authority to make a peace treaty say that the Palestinians would give up the right of return in exchange for peace? 2) From the Israeli perspective, why do you expect the Israelis to give the Palestinians the right of return? Difficulty. No abstract answers for the second question. "Justice" or "it is the right thing to do" don't work as answers. The Israelis don't consider it justice or the right thing to do. I am asking for a Palestinian supporter's honest answer to why _from the Israeli perspective_ they should give in on right of return.
Slight inconvenience being that they didn't have a homeland in the sense of having a nation of Palestine. Also a problem is that the land they want as their homeland has a country there at the moment. Israel. Whether you call it "their homeland" or "Israel" the point is that they want the land that is now Israel. So why should the Israelis give them that?
The number 400 is a figure made up by Hamas. The link you posted lists no source, but happens to be what Hamas was saying at the time. Do you have any independent source for that number, or for who they are counting as children? Does a 17 year old Hamas soldier with an AK-47 count as a child? If you say he doesn't then you are going to have to provide. Apparently it does because among the 313 (not 400) "children" that the Palestinians are claiming the Israelis killed, some have been identified as combatants. The figure 700 is the number of identified dead men positively identified as members of terrorist organizations. The Palestinians' figures for civilians counts any one not engaged in active combat when they died as a civilian. Including Hamas terrorists responsible for sending suicide bombers into Israel.
As for the Amnesty International report. I've looked it over. They said that they got the numbers of the dead from the Palestinians and "Amnesty International delegates who carried out research in Gaza in January-February 2009 did not have the time and resources to verify all the reported deaths, but investigated dozens of cases comprising more than 300 victims, more than half of them children and women, and gathered information from a wide range of sources." So basically, the Palestinians cherry picked 300 deaths for the AI delegates to investigate and AI took their word on the rest. And nothing in there about how they "investigated" or exactly what they could investigate. If the Palestinians showed them a dead body of a 19 year old who died with a gun in his hands and said he was a 17 year old unarmed civilian, would AI count him as a child casualty without further investigation? Why not? No matter how good your tape recorder is, if you record someone lying, the recording is still a lie. The AI report is based on Hamas propaganda. Not that AI is exactly sane about their conclusions even when they have accurate data. Go read the report. Footnote 27 describes how the Israelis warned Nazir Rayan (a senior Hamas terrorist notable for sending his own son to his death as a suicide bomber) that they were going to bomb his house (where weapons were stored) and to get out. The terrorist decided to stay, along with his 4 wives and 11 children and when he and they died in the bombing Israel warned them was coming AI calls that a war crime. Sorry, but a legitimate target does not become an illegitimate target because the enemy puts civilians there. AI is full of shit.
Palestinians suffer for teh same reason that the Jews suffered in WWII. Racism, a belief in the superiority of ones race and greed. You are the one who can't stand fact. From the turn of the 19th century, the Zionists were already plotting how to remove the Palestinains from their land. Would you like me to provide the quotes for you? You seem very poorly educated.
"Surrendering would mean getting their own nation" Rubbish. Listen to Netenyahu. They will never allow the Palestinians to have their onw nationa bevause they believe all the land from Jordan to the Sea belongs to them. "They are like someone who is being held down by a guy who he tried to kill" No they are liek teh woman being raped who is trying to fight back and the man on top is telling onlookers that he is acting in self defense. "The Israelis have offered peace treaties constantly." Wring. Israel has made offers that they knew were completely inadequate, knowing that the Palestinians would reject it. Zionists were massacring Arabs long before the 1948 war. Zionists had been scheming to drive out the Arabs from Palestine 50 years before Israel was even created. Even Ben Gurion said he saw no moral issue with the transfer of Arabs. The Zionists never accepted the partition deal. Ben Gurion wrote that they would accept it initially but that they would ignore it in the quest for more land. The "right of return" is the right of refugees to return to their homes. Israel stole their land deliberately in 1948. But to argue that "right of return" is the deal breaker is pure BS. Israel won’t even pull back from the occupied territories. THAT is the deal breaker. “1. Have you ever heard any Palestinian with the authority to make a peace treaty say that the Palestinians would give up the right of return in exchange for peace? “ That’s precisely what Arafat agreed to. In fact, he had no concern for the refugees. “2. From the Israeli perspective, why do you expect the Israelis to give the Palestinians the right of return? “ That’s like asking a car thief if he believes he car deserves his car back. It’s not a question of what Israel wants, it’s a question of justice and international law. I can understand why the word “justice” presents such a problem for you, but you can’t discount that under international law, refugees have the right to return to their land. I realize it’s impractical, but Israel have the option to pay compensation. Now from a Palestinian perspective, how can they accept that a person who has never been to Israel has the right of return by chance of their birth or religion, but that those who were born there do not?
The Jews always reagded themselves as a nation, so whether the world considered Palestine a nation or not is irrelevant. What is revebalt is that at the time of Israel's creation, Jews only owned 7% of the land and Arabs at least 50%. Whether it was a state of not is of no consequence. Now Israel of today happens ot include the Israel of 1948 pleus the land that wa stolen in 1948, plus the land that was stolen in 1967. The land that was stolen in 1948 was peivate land and as a land of laws that respectss property right, Israel shoudl recongize the Palestinians as the rightful owners of that land. The land that was stolen in 1967 is outside Israel's borders and thus does not belon to Israel, hence Israel can't claim to be giving it to anyone.
"The number 400 is a figure made up by Hamas. " Rubbish. http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=83540&s... http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=83540&s... The BBC as you might recall, were accused of shilling for Israel, so you can’t accuse them of not being independent. “ Does a 17 year old Hamas soldier with an AK-47 count as a child?” Do you have evidence of one? “Apparently it does because among the 313 (not 400) "children" that the Palestinians are claiming the Israelis killed, some have been identified as combatants. “ As you going to provide a source, or just demand them from me? Mind you, that’s a step up from your earlier claim of 80 somethig. The figure of 700 men positively identified as members of terrorist organizations comes from Israeli sources. The same Israel that blocked international journalists form entering Gaza, in violation of Israel’s own supreme court ruling. The Palestinians' figures for civilians counts women, and children as well as men not engaged in active combat when they died. Hamas terrorists haven’t sent any suicide bombers into Israel for years. Your not even a good liar.
The lies of Thom, They only one chery picking here is you, Mr Hasbara. Lie 1: There is nothign in that quote that states the Palestinians cherry picked the 300 deaths for the AI delegates to investigate. Lie 2: They are not required to explain how they investigate or or what they investigate, unless you have evidence of a cover up? Lie 3: What evidence do you have thet AI would or woudl not a 19 year old with a gun in his hand as a count him as a child? And what good woudl guns have been against what was essetially an aerial bombardment? Lie 4: If Israel had not blockaed all foreign jourlnalists from enterint Gaza, we would not be relying on eye witness accounts, whic hisrlae na dit's proaghandaista can dismiss as Hamas propaganda. Lie 5: Hamas have rejected the report, so it can't be Hamas propaghanda. Lie6: Israel had no way of knowing that weapons were stored in Nazir Rayan's house. Israel used that lie to bulldoze the house that Rachel Corrie tried to defend, so Israel has no credibility in this regard. Lie 7: It is a war crime to bomb a civilian house. You are full of shit.
here is the adl trying to get control of the internet. link to adl.org