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	<title>Comments on: Frum is finally halfway transparent about his religious-nationalist claim for Israel</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 14:37:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101634</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101634</guid>
		<description>ALSO SEE:  &quot;Zionist nationalist myth of enforced exile: Israel deliberately forgets its history&quot;, by Schlomo Sand 

An Israeli historian suggests the diaspora was the consequence, not of the expulsion of the Hebrews from Palestine, but of proselytising across north Africa, southern Europe and the Middle East 

(EXCERPT)…But during the 1980s an earthquake shook these founding myths. The discoveries made by the “new archaeology” discredited a great exodus in the 13th century BC. Moses could not have led the Hebrews out of Egypt into the Promised Land, for the good reason that the latter was Egyptian territory at the time. And there is no trace of either a slave revolt against the pharaonic empire or of a sudden conquest of Canaan by outsiders.
Nor is there any trace or memory of the magnificent kingdom of David and Solomon. Recent discoveries point to the existence, at the time, of two small kingdoms: Israel, the more powerful, and Judah, the future Judea. The general population of Judah did not go into 6th century BC exile: only its political and intellectual elite were forced to settle in Babylon. This decisive encounter with Persian religion gave birth to Jewish monotheism.
Then there is the question of the exile of 70 AD. There has been no real research into this turning point in Jewish history, the cause of the diaspora. And for a simple reason: the Romans never exiled any nation from anywhere on the eastern seaboard of the Mediterranean. Apart from enslaved prisoners, the population of Judea continued to live on their lands, even after the destruction of the second temple. Some converted to Christianity in the 4th century, while the majority embraced Islam during the 7th century Arab conquest….

Shlomo Sand is professor of history at Tel Aviv university and the author of Comment le people juif fut inventé (Fayard, Paris, 2008) 

ENTIRE ARTICLE -  http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/07israel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALSO SEE:  &#8220;Zionist nationalist myth of enforced exile: Israel deliberately forgets its history&#8221;, by Schlomo Sand </p>
<p>An Israeli historian suggests the diaspora was the consequence, not of the expulsion of the Hebrews from Palestine, but of proselytising across north Africa, southern Europe and the Middle East </p>
<p>(EXCERPT)…But during the 1980s an earthquake shook these founding myths. The discoveries made by the “new archaeology” discredited a great exodus in the 13th century BC. Moses could not have led the Hebrews out of Egypt into the Promised Land, for the good reason that the latter was Egyptian territory at the time. And there is no trace of either a slave revolt against the pharaonic empire or of a sudden conquest of Canaan by outsiders.<br />
Nor is there any trace or memory of the magnificent kingdom of David and Solomon. Recent discoveries point to the existence, at the time, of two small kingdoms: Israel, the more powerful, and Judah, the future Judea. The general population of Judah did not go into 6th century BC exile: only its political and intellectual elite were forced to settle in Babylon. This decisive encounter with Persian religion gave birth to Jewish monotheism.<br />
Then there is the question of the exile of 70 AD. There has been no real research into this turning point in Jewish history, the cause of the diaspora. And for a simple reason: the Romans never exiled any nation from anywhere on the eastern seaboard of the Mediterranean. Apart from enslaved prisoners, the population of Judea continued to live on their lands, even after the destruction of the second temple. Some converted to Christianity in the 4th century, while the majority embraced Islam during the 7th century Arab conquest….</p>
<p>Shlomo Sand is professor of history at Tel Aviv university and the author of Comment le people juif fut inventé (Fayard, Paris, 2008) </p>
<p>ENTIRE ARTICLE &#8211;  <a href="http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/07israel">link to mondediplo.com</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101632</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101632</guid>
		<description>SEE: &quot;Ancient Israeli Myths Deter Peace&quot;, By Robert Parry, 07/09/09 

(EXCERPT) The rationale for formally designating Israel a Jewish state – as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu now demands – rests on three religious-political pillars: God’s purported covenant with Moses instructing the ancient Israelites to conquer the land, the injustice of the Roman-era Diaspora that supposedly removed them centuries later, and the brutal persecution of European Jews in the Holocaust. 

Yet, two of these pillars – Moses conveying God’s covenant to the Israelites and the Roman Diaspora – appear based on almost no historical reality, the stuff of legend and possibly even lies that crumble under any serious scrutiny. 

Normally, such ancient stories might be regarded as harmless tales that some people treasure as part of their Judeo-Christian faiths, except that Netanyahu’s new demand means that these myths now threaten peace in the Middle East and conceivably could push the modern world into more bloody warfare. Therefore, they must be given fresh examination.... 

ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/070809.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SEE: &#8220;Ancient Israeli Myths Deter Peace&#8221;, By Robert Parry, 07/09/09 </p>
<p>(EXCERPT) The rationale for formally designating Israel a Jewish state – as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu now demands – rests on three religious-political pillars: God’s purported covenant with Moses instructing the ancient Israelites to conquer the land, the injustice of the Roman-era Diaspora that supposedly removed them centuries later, and the brutal persecution of European Jews in the Holocaust. </p>
<p>Yet, two of these pillars – Moses conveying God’s covenant to the Israelites and the Roman Diaspora – appear based on almost no historical reality, the stuff of legend and possibly even lies that crumble under any serious scrutiny. </p>
<p>Normally, such ancient stories might be regarded as harmless tales that some people treasure as part of their Judeo-Christian faiths, except that Netanyahu’s new demand means that these myths now threaten peace in the Middle East and conceivably could push the modern world into more bloody warfare. Therefore, they must be given fresh examination&#8230;. </p>
<p>ENTIRE ARTICLE - <a href="http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/070809.html">link to consortiumnews.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sir_Jack_Gurney</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101620</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir_Jack_Gurney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101620</guid>
		<description>I believe the photo you are referring to with the smiling Gent having a goofy look, is actually a photo of the subject of the post (Mr. Frum) rather than the author of the post (Mr Weiss).  I trust that this clarifies the matter.

Well now, I&#039;m off to evening tea. Everyone have the pleasantest of evenings!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the photo you are referring to with the smiling Gent having a goofy look, is actually a photo of the subject of the post (Mr. Frum) rather than the author of the post (Mr Weiss).  I trust that this clarifies the matter.</p>
<p>Well now, I&#8217;m off to evening tea. Everyone have the pleasantest of evenings!</p>
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		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101616</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101616</guid>
		<description>PHIL(L): I really like that new picture of you that accompanies this post. You don&#039;t look as scrawny as you do in the photo over at TPM. It&#039;s nice to finally see you smiling even if it does remind me of the goofy look one often sees on the faces of those &#039;born again&#039; types (e.g. Pat Boone).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PHIL(L): I really like that new picture of you that accompanies this post. You don&#8217;t look as scrawny as you do in the photo over at TPM. It&#8217;s nice to finally see you smiling even if it does remind me of the goofy look one often sees on the faces of those &#8216;born again&#8217; types (e.g. Pat Boone).</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101609</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101609</guid>
		<description>PS. Of course, if the &quot;Biblical rationale&quot; justifies Israel&#039;s keeping the West Bank, then it would also seem to justify Israel&#039;s taking control of (depending on Biblical interpretations) southern Lebanon, much of Syria, Jordan, half of Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, The Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, other parts of Egypt, and God* only knows what else.  And since Judaism is thought to have actually originated in Persia, perhaps Israel should also claim Iran!

* or more likely, the &quot;Reverend&quot; John Hagee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS. Of course, if the &#8220;Biblical rationale&#8221; justifies Israel&#8217;s keeping the West Bank, then it would also seem to justify Israel&#8217;s taking control of (depending on Biblical interpretations) southern Lebanon, much of Syria, Jordan, half of Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, The Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, other parts of Egypt, and God* only knows what else.  And since Judaism is thought to have actually originated in Persia, perhaps Israel should also claim Iran!</p>
<p>* or more likely, the &#8220;Reverend&#8221; John Hagee</p>
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		<title>By: Shafiq</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101456</link>
		<dc:creator>Shafiq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101456</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just read the first couple of paragraphs in Frum&#039;s opening statement:

Iranian nuclear weapons? Check
Anti-Semitism? Check
Holocaust? Check
Nuclear-Armed Iranian Holocaust-denying Anti-Semitism? Check, Check and Check</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just read the first couple of paragraphs in Frum&#8217;s opening statement:</p>
<p>Iranian nuclear weapons? Check<br />
Anti-Semitism? Check<br />
Holocaust? Check<br />
Nuclear-Armed Iranian Holocaust-denying Anti-Semitism? Check, Check and Check</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jake in Jerusalem</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101397</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake in Jerusalem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101397</guid>
		<description>King David had his capital in Jerusalem 3,000 years ago.  Israel was a Jewish state much before that, as well.

ShingoLiar is also ShingoInnumerate!  Having problems with numbers more than 1 digit in length?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>King David had his capital in Jerusalem 3,000 years ago.  Israel was a Jewish state much before that, as well.</p>
<p>ShingoLiar is also ShingoInnumerate!  Having problems with numbers more than 1 digit in length?</p>
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		<title>By: norm depalma</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101314</link>
		<dc:creator>norm depalma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101314</guid>
		<description>Richard Weiss:
re. your attempt to besmirch memory of Barbara Frum.  Once again, via a little inaccurate aside, you belie your claims to journalism.

Well at least you can claim to get both minor and the major facts wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Weiss:<br />
re. your attempt to besmirch memory of Barbara Frum.  Once again, via a little inaccurate aside, you belie your claims to journalism.</p>
<p>Well at least you can claim to get both minor and the major facts wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: spuxx</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101251</link>
		<dc:creator>spuxx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101251</guid>
		<description>The same Frum who described the settlements as &#039;trailer parks, ramshackle things&#039; is this bloggingheads clip with Gershom Gorenberg:
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/17943?in=35:55&amp;out=36:13</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The same Frum who described the settlements as &#8216;trailer parks, ramshackle things&#8217; is this bloggingheads clip with Gershom Gorenberg:<br />
<a href="http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/17943?in=35:55&#038;out=36:13">link to bloggingheads.tv</a></p>
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		<title>By: spuxx</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/frum-is-finally-halfway-transparent-about-his-religious-nationalist-claim-for-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-101250</link>
		<dc:creator>spuxx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7495#comment-101250</guid>
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