goody goody gumdrops

by Philip Weiss on July 15, 2009 · 54 comments

set the alarm clock: December 2010.

Related posts:

  1. Suffering Succotash! Ross and Holbrooke Out?! Hagel and Sampo In!

{ 54 comments }

1 Richard Witty July 15, 2009 at 7:59 pm

It looks like what I feared would happen did happen. That is that you would be radicalized by your trip, rather than liberalized. The radical approach rejects the concept of mutual humanization, for the concept of selective dehumanization.

2 Richard Witty July 15, 2009 at 8:01 pm

Its the idea that balance (justice) is created in the world by a dissenter becoming a swinging pendulum rather than a fulcrum.

3 eitanbenshlomo July 15, 2009 at 8:08 pm

traitor

4 lovelyisraelis July 15, 2009 at 8:42 pm

Ilan Pappe eviscerating israeli Nazi Efraim Karsh: http://ilanpappe.com/?page_id=10

5 gert July 15, 2009 at 8:58 pm

Jewish Voice for Peace petition: Israeli soldiers have spoken–Share their stories with Congress If you are in the U.S., please send this email to your Representative and Senators in Congress. Share with them what happened in Gaza–from the mouths of Israeli soldiers themselves–and demand accountability.

6 otto July 15, 2009 at 9:05 pm

December 2010 is a long time off if they already have the manuscript.

7 gert July 15, 2009 at 9:05 pm

Richard Witty: As long as the power differential between Israel and the Palestinians continues to be overwhelmingly in favour of the Usurper Entity, you won't see a lot of 'dissenters becoming swinging pendula'. In the newest version of Israel's horsetrading, the Arab states are now expected to make concessions, in return for the phantasmagorical settlement freeze.

8 Tenma July 15, 2009 at 9:10 pm

Should about coincide with the release of Seymour Hersh's book about Dick Cheney's Death Squad.

9 eitanbenshlomo July 15, 2009 at 9:22 pm

LovelyIsraelis is anti-semite

10 eitanbenshlomo July 15, 2009 at 9:22 pm

Jews own the land

11 eitanbenshlomo July 15, 2009 at 9:24 pm

Efraim Karsh won. Also Efraim was a "straw man" set up to advance pappe views on anti-israeli network news

12 Doppler July 15, 2009 at 10:00 pm

Hi Phil, I hope you will report on what was said at Obama's meeting this week with Jewish Leaders. The reports were pretty cryptic. The idea that such discussions can be kept from the public is offensive to non-Jews.

13 Strahl July 15, 2009 at 10:18 pm

Witty, you are no one to set parameters on what is 'radical' and what is 'liberal'.

14 Strahl July 15, 2009 at 10:19 pm

Jews stole the land.

15 eitanbenshlomo July 15, 2009 at 10:30 pm

Jews own the Land.

16 RichardWitty July 15, 2009 at 11:00 pm

Jews own some land. They stole some land. If they want to really own the land, they have to pay for it from a willing seller, and/or perfect title by compensation on land that is rationally contested. Even a million people screaming does not create ownership. You can call me RuevenbenLaban if you like.

17 eitanbenshlomo July 15, 2009 at 11:02 pm

Jews stole no land.

18 RichardWitty July 15, 2009 at 11:13 pm

In any case. I will be fasting tomorrow in support of the Gaza civilians. And, my fast will include a mourning that they are kept prisoners by Israel, Egypt and Hamas.

19 Strahl July 15, 2009 at 11:27 pm

Fair enough Witty. I agree w/ your last comment. This is what I've always agreed w/ you on. Hamas IS responsible (I just do not put them in the same context or level as Israel – however, Hamas is in and of themselves a problem and I agree).

20 lovelyisraelis July 15, 2009 at 11:32 pm

For better or worse, Hamas is the only Palestinian leadership at the moment that is not a front organization for Judeo-Nazi consolidation of power and oppression. They have agreed unambiguously with the world consensus regarding resolution of the conflict. I'm surprised to hear Strahl attacking them.

21 lovelyisraelis July 15, 2009 at 11:34 pm

as to Witty, nothing surprises me.

22 Shingo July 16, 2009 at 12:09 am

Israeli Jews stole the homes of 800,000 Palestinians and all the occupied territories.

23 eitanbenshlomo July 16, 2009 at 12:12 am

Jews are thieves you say? No the land is ours.

24 Citizen July 16, 2009 at 12:38 am

Yeah like those jews in the old Warsaw Ghetto should've taken a more humane approach instead of getting all radical. Moderation is always a good thing. You know they killed some fine young German boys with those smuggled pistols–how many did they have, seven? They even dented up a few Panzers and threw a bottle cocktail at an 88 artillery piece. Such selective dehumanization is never a good thing. The Germans merely wanted their lebensraum.

25 Citizen July 16, 2009 at 12:43 am

Don't be fooled by Richard's misapplication of democratic and color-blind American style legal title and property rights principles to Israel's perverted land ownership principles. Here's a small sample of the difference written in 1987: http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?ti... And it sure has not grown better for the Palestinians since then.

26 WittyWatch July 16, 2009 at 12:44 am

Don't be fooled by Witty pretending he's a lawyer: http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?ti...

27 Citizen July 16, 2009 at 12:47 am

I love they way he plays lawyer and pretends US-style title and real property law applies in Israel.

28 Richard Witty July 16, 2009 at 2:26 am

Of course they did. You're not looking into it is all. Of the land that the settlements are located on, perhaps 1/10th could be said to be previously Jewish owned. (I don't know the number, just stating my suspicion that the number is not insignficant but FAR from a majority.) You can't expect the messianic age by land-lust Eitan.

29 Richard Witty July 16, 2009 at 2:27 am

It is the basis of land ownership in Israel, but too often rationalized away.

30 eitanbenshlomo July 16, 2009 at 2:29 am

It's not about lust. It's about Justice. The land rightfully belongs to Jews. We have the strongest claim. Who was the last Palestinian ruler before Yasser Arafat? There was none. Jewish Kings ruled the land thousands of years before Islam. Arab invaders had no mandate, Crusaders had no mandate, Ottomans had no mandate, British had limited mandate to facilitate Jewish state in Israel and Jordan, Jordanians had no mandate. The land was, is, and always will be Jewish land.

31 MRW July 16, 2009 at 6:45 am

So are you.

32 MRW July 16, 2009 at 6:48 am

You stole the land. Dont like this discussion? Create one in Israel. This is for Americans.

33 eitanbenshlomo July 16, 2009 at 6:49 am

Excuse me MRW but I have been following that particular poster closely and I and other members have agreed that many of that persons statements are anti-semetic. I, on the other hand have not made disparaging remarks towards the Jewish nation.

34 eitanbenshlomo July 16, 2009 at 6:50 am

The land is not stolen. The land of Israel is Jewish land and it belongs to the Jewish nation. Jews are not thieves.

35 MRW July 16, 2009 at 6:53 am

Traitor to what?

36 eitanbenshlomo July 16, 2009 at 6:57 am

His nation. Look up traitor in the dictionary. Don't waste my time with simple definitions.

37 MRW July 16, 2009 at 7:13 am

I think, I believe, I posit X, therefore ABC and GEF are now true. Hunh? And we're to take this seriously?

38 MRW July 16, 2009 at 7:14 am

Traitor to whom?

39 eitanbenshlomo July 16, 2009 at 7:24 am

Again, look it up in the dictionary I'm not going to answer this one again from you.

40 Citizen July 16, 2009 at 8:57 am

No, its the idea that since the teeter-totter's one side has been up in the air so long, motion, life requires a little weight be placed there, or alternatively, some weight be taken off the down side. A first step towards balance. Just fun.

41 us norm July 16, 2009 at 8:59 am

Which nation is that? A tribe is not a nation.

42 Tecumseh July 16, 2009 at 9:03 am

Are you the chief of the Jewish tribes?

43 Joshua's Legacy July 16, 2009 at 9:08 am

The Crusaders had a mandate from their God. Your people are expendable therefore. Sound familiar?

44 Logic 1.0 July 16, 2009 at 9:10 am

This is not a prayer recital class.

45 Citizen July 16, 2009 at 9:12 am

Forward.com has a pretty revealing article dated yesterday.

46 Citizen July 16, 2009 at 9:19 am

The bigger problem is Hamas is the only Palestinian organization that is not a proxy for Israel-US. And Hamas is the least corrupt. And every Palestinian knows it.

47 occupied law July 16, 2009 at 9:23 am

That's an understatement to the point of a lie: Here's a small sample of the difference written in 1987: http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?ti... It's much worse for the natives now.

48 Richard Witty July 16, 2009 at 9:24 am

Like I said, a pendulum swing of collective harms in the name of balance. Rather than a LIFE itself of balance.

49 Richard Witty July 16, 2009 at 9:25 am

If you're talking to Phil, you are justifying his reaction, rather than proving him wrong. Not all that different than Palestinian ragers justify the reaction of Zionists, rather than prove them wrong.

50 Citizen July 16, 2009 at 9:27 am

That's an understatement to the point of a lie.

51 Richard Witty July 16, 2009 at 9:29 am

The land can only BE (is) Jewish land by consent of the governed (not displacement of the inconvenient), and owned by fair compensation between willing transacters. If you can't make those two happen without the use of force, then the land IS not Jewish. Again and again, land is not Jewish or Palestinian. People are. And people change, not whether they are Jewish or Palestian perse, but whether it is more important to them that they are also accountants (like me), or civilists (rather than neo-religious, or faux-religious), or ecologists, or lovers of the ONE GOD (as distinct from lovers of the one priesthood).

52 Richard Witty July 16, 2009 at 9:33 am

And, every Palestinian knows that there are ways that Hamas is corrupt, so that leaves bad options, no?

53 Richard Witty July 16, 2009 at 9:36 am

You're not speaking from knowledge either of the law, or of the administration of the law. The application of the law in Israel is what is inconsistent. The reference to Jim Crow is a more relevant description within Israel than the reference to apartheid. The remedy happens by TWO efforts. One is accurate description of the persecution in design and functionally. The second is by the model of civil and enlightened Palestinian individuals and communities that don't break through the prejudices by the actual. Ranting dissent is neither of those.

54 Richard Witty July 16, 2009 at 9:37 am

Correction, The second is by the model of civil and enlightened Palestinian individuals and communities that break through the prejudices by the actual.

Comments on this entry are closed.

Previous post: Mearsheimer: C-Span would cover a debate. Jump up to it, Yivo!

Next post: Obamen and J Street (new nexus)