We're doing an informal roundtable on this site, challenging non- and anti-Zionists to utter some positive formula for peace in the Middle East. On the very-American theory, Now that we have the microphone, we have to step up to the plate. But Seham, our young Palestinian-American correspondent from California, isn't into the vibe:
I don't know how to move forward. I see why that's the direction we should moving in but I don't know what moving forward means so long as the people all over the Palestinian territories keep experiencing the crazy shit they are experiencing in Gaza, E. Jerusalem, West Bank. It's sheer fucking insanity. For the first time in my lifetime I am hearing a different tone from the media. And it's all because of the internet. Wapo and NYT's don't throw a bone to the Palestinians every once a while because they have a little fucking humanity in them, they're doing it because they don't want to become irrelevant, because the truth is just a google search away. It's because of the internet and the people who are documenting all these fucking crimes. Because in reality, the mainstream media doesn't give a shit about Palestinians and they aren't going to humanize them unless they are forced to and then when they get forced to do that they are going to go look for Jews that are humanizing them because it's the safest thing to do. So basically, team Palestine needs you to keep doing what you are doing because you're the only way that anyone in this country is ever going to get to hear about them. No pressure or anything though.
Americans are not naive. We see the cynical use of your identity and it does not work, Weiss.
If you want peace you have to start with the honesty you are incapable of facing. I want justice for the refugees. Who started the war of annihilation that created them? And why should we accept that the head of Sabeel in my town, living a life luxury, can claim to be a refugee? There is an internationally accepted standard of what a refugee is, all I am asking for is an end to politically motivated special treatment of the Arabs calling themselves Palestinians. This would be a positive step forward.
I agree that it is tough to find much of any reason for optimism. I also question the dogma that things would be different if the public were better informed. That certainly has not been the case in Israel. The public is quite well informed about Israeli atrocities and the reports in Ha'aretz and elsewhere of daily outrages against the Palestinians have only made the citizenry MORE vile and inhuman. What is most disheartening is how many opportunities exist for the US president to instantly change the game. If Obama had thrown US support behind many legal initiatives in Europe to have the Israeli leadership investigated and extradicted to the Hague to face war crimes trials after Gaza, Livni, Barak and the rest of these Jewish Joseph Mengeles would be locked up right now.
Seham, slightly off-topic. Do you know Jack Shaheen? I just discovered there will be an updated 2009 paperback edition of his: Real Bad Arabs on July/30 – The image of the Arab in US movies -. I can't find it on Amazon US yet, I just ordered it over here. http://www.sott.net/articles/show/186382-Reel-Bad... http://www.sott.net/articles/show/186382-Reel-Bad... Video: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/186382-Reel-Bad...
Its necessary to propose. And, its not the web thats making the big difference in tone. Its Obama.
Witty is an Obama fan. That's pretty much the kiss of death for any president claiming to be a progressive on the issue of he Israel-Palestine conflict.
How could you rationally conclude that?
Mainstream media face intolerable forces, now more than ever, to publicize only the Israeli side of the story. Every week another newspaper announces huge layoffs or that it's folding altogether. The ones that remain can't afford to lose that last vestige of advertising revenue by printing a balanced story. But I am more hopeful than I have ever been before, because I see the growing movement of people who are working on the grass roots level to change policies. The most important thing that we can do is a create successful Boycott Divestment Sanctions campaign to make it clear to Israelis that their path is wrong and will not lead to success in the world. But at this moment there are many challenges and we have to anticipate heavy backlash against these campaigns. Life for Palestinians, unfortunately, will get much worse before it gets better. Yet I have hope that it will get better.
Interesting comment. Not for the points he made, but the fact that his complaints revealed his thoughts. He doesn't consider anyone who disagrees with him to be human. And the Philip Weiss horde agress with him. No wonder intelligent, reasonable people think of Weiss as little more than a font of propagandist hate.
Well..I admit, I rarely bother reading your posts these days, Witty. The ones I have read express support for Obama., so my conclusion is entirely rational.
What's needed is a worldwide, multi-million dollar, multi-media advertising/awareness-raising campaign, to put the plight of the Palestinians in the spotlight. A kind of Palestine-Hasbarah equivalent, with emphasis not only on Palestinian suffering past and present, the multiple injustices of what Israel is doing in Palestine but also going to great lengths to show Palestinian culture, past and present, in order to humanise a people that not only has suffered greatly but has consistently been smeared as the villain in the piece. (Thanks, USA for the latter! Although the Europoodles are guilty of collusion, as per normal). Websites like If Americans Knew (plug: currently looking for donations for 2009 – 2010!) should be actively Google Adwords promoted on all ME related search terms. YouTube should be flooded with plugs for Palestinian cultural events. Drown out the Iffie Ozzies (Mark Regev) of Israel's disinformation campaign! Not very 'balanced' you say? Do Law Enforcement Agencies act 'balanced' when dealing with criminals? Just, yes (all being well of course), but 'balanced'? We're sinking in pro-Israeli one-sidedness and still Israel complains it's being picked on…
It's not Obama. It was Gaza.
I just bought it off of Amazon. Reading it now. Amazing how racist and bigoted we are towards designated 'enemies of the State'. And of course tribal Jews in Hollywood will use their power to vilify their tribal enemy.
Witty and Obama are intellectually dishonest. However, Obama – you could argue if you want to be positive – is subject to the usual tremendous institutional pressures. Witty is just a polite fascist.
I saw the film "Catch a Fire" yesterday, about South Africa in the 80's, at its hottest in solidarity. At the time, it was unknown whether the ANC would adopt a "kill them all" approach when the inevitable change occurred, or a "forgive them all" approach. The story was of a formerly a-political family man who was unjustly accused of a bombing of a chemical plant, tortured, but radicalized by seeing his wife being tortured to get information from him. After being released, he joined the ANC in Mozambique and attempted a much larger bombing of the same plant (he knew the design of the plant, week points, explosive points). In the movie the ANC took pains to evacuate innocents from their targets. In the movie, the ANC organizers taught that the institutions of apartheid were the problem, NOT the white population even as there was much hatred among recruits. The objecitve conditions of apartheid were similar to what West Bank Palestinians experience. Roadblocks, detention without charge, police brutality. Its worth opposing, and very determinedly. And there was divisioin in anti-apartheid forces, probably as severe as the divisions between Hamas and Fatah, though the ANC was CLEARLY the most respected and respectable leadership. To be successful, there has to be a path to a peaceful resolution (not just raging and permanent disorder) and a clear and single objective. (To the ANC, the goal was "one-person, one-vote". A rational goal for Palestine is the Arab League proposal with civil democracy in each state.)
I agree. But the American people are never given any context relative to the Palestinian side from the MSM, which is a virtual fortress against any truth wider than Jews got gassed wholesale, Israel is the same as USA in values, unlike any other country in the Middle East, and Palestinians hate Israel because they are jew-haters and sand ni*****. Every American is taught incessantly about the Holocaust, nothing about, e.g., the Naka. All high journalistic careers absolutely depend on ignoring I-P history. A little exposed public truth from our Fourth Estate would go a long way ( if given to average Americans concerned about jobs, etc) to change public opinion about the direction of our Middle East foreign policy and foreign aid. That would aid Obama. Obama does have the political capital to go over the heads of his own AIPAC muzzled Democratic Party on the bully pulpit–but so far there is no sign he has the balls to do so–the Cairo speech merely mentioned in public that settlements were an issue key to peace in the Middle East, yet I saw no MSM pundits or segments giving it more than the most glancing play–no MSM programming took that slim opportunity to, say give a 15 minute program to the American public about the reasons why settlements were so key…. The MSM knows perfectly that most Americans work every day and get their news from TV. Then the singles seek a few hours of simple entertainment while the families juggle that and their kids, before all drop off to bed to prepare for the next work day, or attempt to find a job, etc. Additionally, there is virtually no details furnished by MSM TV that ever tie in The Lobby-Whore Congress-Aid To Israel-the decline of USA reputation in the world. Again, that's TV–most average Americans as described never read the NY Times or the WSJ or any political blogs at all, especially dissenting blogs. They go on the internet mostly for pure entertainment or looking for practical answers to their everyday practical problems. Considering who own this media and who they populate relevant positions with, neither Obama or any dissidents in Congress can expect any significant support from public opinion. The only TV outlet for more informed citizens is on Washington Journal by call in, and contacting their congressmen who handle them by giving them boilerplate hasbara talking points. If the hate speech bill sitting for approval in the Senate gets passed in the dead of night the internet itself will be cut off as a means of informing that slowly growing segment at the grass roots who seeks information they cannot get via the MSM. Just read that proposed bill, already passed by the House by a large number–it's truly depressing.
Just focus on facts. Write down the typical ZioNazi rhetoric and find the detailed/factual rebuttal. I mean, they ALL sound alike too. So it won't be difficult.
A tiny slice of the web is making more difference than the powerful, muzzling MSM, which is supposed to be our de facto fourth branch of government. The real Fourth Estate worthy of public air waves when it comes to the I-P issue and related issues is on the frail shoulders of a courageous few. You are NOT one of them.
Just keep pandering to Neo-Nazis like Strahl and you, too, will be considered a joke.
I'd like to see a goy Borak movie for the USA pop audience, taking place in Israel. One scene could even include Blumenthal's video clip of the drunk spoiled brats in Jerusalem. The hero would have to wear a kippa, sometimes a penquin suit, etc–so easy to set up those he ridiculed in all his movies. It would be easy to do the same with Israel road trip movie. It just wouldn't be allowed. Imagine the frothing at the mouth by all the usual spokesmen against anti-semitism? Blumental's tiny clip could not even stay on the internet, let alone be shown in every mall in the USA.
Witty, you are confusing Rational with Reasonable. Hitler, like Strahl and LI are quite rational. But reasonable? That would require a far greater intelligence than either have exhibited so far.
all true. how ironic that the final consolidation of right wing power and propagandistic censorship of information may be taking place under the administration of the first black president, –a man designated not so long ago as the savior to lead this troubled country out of the abyss of war making, islamophobia, support for apartheid and wholesale destruction of the ecosystem.
"To the ANC, the goal was "one-person, one-vote". A rational goal for Palestine is the Arab League proposal with civil democracy in each state." Why not one person one vote? Simple. You don't want to allow the possibility of a democracy in Palestine. For the South Africans—yes. For the Palestinians..no. The Jewish right to live as a superior class is sacrosanct and can not be questioned. That is the whole problem in a nutshell, Witty. Why do you refuse to see it?
It's obviously not only Obama, it was all together a changing atmosphere combined with a good campaign, people fighting for change, without them he wouldn't be were he is now. Gideon sounds very melancholic, no coffee, no chance to build up what was destroyed. There are days when Phil sounds like this today it's Seham and Gideon. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1097243.html Spoil them rotten By Gideon Levy Tags: Gaza blockad, Palestinians For the past several weeks it has been very hard to get coffee in Gaza. Gas is dirt cheap (NIS 2.40 per liter), and diesel is even cheaper (NIS 1.70); it's all flowing through the tunnels from Egypt. But there is no coffee. Only after inquiring at a number of grocery stores might you find a bag of coffee, but the grocer will sell you only 250 grams for NIS 18 shekels – an exorbitant price in Gaza. Coffee, as you know, is not a "humanitarian" item; you can live without it. And indeed, Gaza has gone over to tea. Spoil them rotten – that's Israel's Gaza policy. Every few weeks there's a shortage of another item. Water is in sufficient supply for the time being, but electricity is intermittent. They are repairing the power station but there aren't any spare parts. You try living in the Gaza heat and poverty without electricity. On Tuesday, for example, the electricity supply to Beit Lahia was cut off for hours. They have begun to clear away the rubble from Operation Cast Lead, but they haven't started to rebuild, not even a room, except for mud houses, because there is no cement and gravel. The $2 billion promised with much ceremony at the Sharm el-Sheikh summit about six months ago – of it $900 million from the new America under President Barack Obama – is lying in vaults at the international banks. A senior American diplomat explained a few days ago that his country is not transferring the money "because Israel is objecting," and an American law prohibits trading with Hamas. He said this in utter seriousness, as if there were no American commitment to transfer the money, and as if the great America were dependent on Israel. However, the burden of Gaza's suffering is also weighing on Obama's shoulders: Without its rehabilitation, his great promise is hollow. The Hamas government has been in existence for two years and the siege on Gaza continues at full strength and cruelty. Washington is busy with the fate of the Migron settlement, Israel is busy with the Dudu Topaz case, and the world has lost interest. When there are no terror attacks, there are no Arabs: When Gaza isn't shooting, it is abandoned to its fate. That is the message Israel is sending its imprisoned neighbors: Launch Qassams and we'll take an interest in you, don't launch Qassams and we won't take an interest. Only abducted soldier Gilad Shalit is still reminding us of Gaza's existence: The activists for his release demonstrated again last week. But instead of demonstrating for the release of Palestinian prisoners, they demonstrated for tightening the siege and collective punishment. Only Gilad was born to be free. …
You can than use the clips from the palestinian gunman shoting the 4 little jewish girls in the head at point blank range. You can then use the clips from the Palestinian murders who ripped to israli Jews, limb,from limb, with their bare hands, showing off the blood for the cameras. You can than show the clips of the palestinian stabbing Jewish children to death. Good counters to some drunken slurs?
Imagine a goy stand up comic doing jokes about the Agriprocessors Inc kosher meat people and the local pork eaters in Postville, IA. The clash of cultures is really fertile, hilarious ground. Wouldn't you love to see a SNL skit on that? From Shakespeare's clowns to present day US comedy, including cartoons such as Family Guy, South Park, etc, are the only vehicle for attacking the status quo culture and government–but, unless you're Sarah Silverman, an American Jew who pulls her punches, though she's credited with doing the opposite, the Shakespearean court jester is taboo in the USA.
Gideon Levy is an Israeli human being. They are as rare (and wondrous) as unicorns.
Witty thanks you for your kiss of death. Anybody with a few BBs rolling around in a tuna fish can brain would conclude from Witty's consistent comments that he's an Israeli apologists to the core hiding behind a cardboard figure representing Reasonable Man.
Now I understand. I automatically corrected the "reel", it should be "Reel bad Arabs". http://www.amazon.com/Reel-Bad-Arabs-Hollywood-Vi...
What's a "horde" oh intelligent one? Your comment reveals your lack of thought. Attack the messenger when you can't attack what he says. You, ismail, failed your Hasbara training. You need to say something at least slightly logical.
Someone harping. Rumors concerning Max' father. I am an absolute fan of him too, brilliant mind. http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyranni...
ismail, you can do better than that, or no? So far you have not given me much hope. Attacking the messenger is stale and ineffective, certainly on this blog of all blogs. Suggestion: try (if you are able) talking in abstract moral terms originating in the Enlightenment and implemented in the founding of the USA, and then ignore the gross disproportion of power comprising the I-P history. In other words, can't you at least be as misleading as Witty? I can only imagine how quickly the Zionist POV would be stopped by US public opinion if the MSM plastered your written thoughts across the USA MSM headlines.
I keep asking for somebody to give me input on the idea of a UN and/or USA sponsored & monitored referendum vote by all Israelis and Palestinians to declare whether they want a single state or two separate states. This seems a good spot to ask again.
I am an enthusiastic Obama supporter. How can you rationally conclude "kiss of death" for progressive approach/outcome?
Damn, this is an astute piece by LeaNder22. Thank you, LeaNder22. Naturally none of this information is given to the American public by the USA MSM. Apparently average Americans are not born to be free either; they are too latently anti-semitic?
ismail, go back to your masturbating. Just don't share it with us, ok?
Gideon Levy is a Zionist.
"When Gaza isn't shooting, it is abandoned to its fate. That is the message Israel is sending its imprisoned neighbors: Launch Qassams and we'll take an interest in you, don't launch Qassams and we won't take an interest." This was the most insightlful quote from the article.
I got Reel Bad Arabs last year when I made a donation to KPFA but I still haven't gotten around to watching it. Mostly because I know what it's all about because I did some work around the same topic when I was doing my undergrad. But I'll watch it soon.
"Gideon Levy is a zionist." "And what is Zionism nowadays? An archaic and outdated concept born in a different reality, a vague and delusive concept marking the difference between the permitted and the proscribed. Does Zionism mean settlement in the territories? Occupation? The legitimization of every act of violence and injustice? " "Anyone who wants an Israeli left must say "enough" to Zionism, the Zionism of which the right has taken complete control. " …Gideon Levy: Ha'aretz http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063597.html
Fine stack o' dead people you got their Ismail, mighty fine. But the Palestinians paid/are paying. The Israelis? Not yet.
Why on earth do you suppose that nearly everyone on this forum regards you as an apologist for Israel and her crimes against the Palestinians and no one accepts your arguments, (when they can be extracted from the dense undergrowth of free-associative language) as 'progressive.' ? The fact is that Obama is claiming more and more israeli apologists as fans and fewer and fewer left progressives, who are deserting him in droves as he back pats the CIA for their torture spree, excuses the NSA of illegally eavesdropping on innocent Americans, massacres starving people with drone strikes and parrots AIPAC lunacy about the sanctity of the Jewish state, etc. One is judged by one's friends, wouldn't you say?
Gideon is not one of "those" Zionists. Nor am I. But, he still is a Zionist, still a beneficiary of Israeli occupation, even still committed to a distinct Israel from historical articles. "What is Zionism nowadays". That is one of the hundred-thousand dollar questions. To me, it is the right of the Jewish people to self-govern. The equation of "dispossession = Zionism" is a false one. Its false for the right-wing to require it (rather than enough). Its false for the left to conclude that right-wing Zionism is THE definition. It is in fact a way to EMPOWER the right-wing, declaring that it is the only valid approach.
Good point, citizen. I got in an argument with richard silverstein once. He tried (successfully, I believe) to shut down the Massada 2000 site. I said that the Massada 2000 site and those like it are vital to acquainting the public with the true nature of the pro-israel camp…the lunacy, hatred, racism etc. ismail beryl is a textbook massada 2000-ite, an inarticulate, totally uninformed wack job. The more he blathers on about wonderful israel, the better. Israel is like a shampoo that Charles Manson keeps endorsing.
Thank you for telling us what YOU think zionism is. And thanks to Gideon, for revealing what zionism is in practice and why he finds it at BEST "an archaic and outdated concept born in a different reality, a vague and delusive concept marking the difference between the permitted and the proscribed" and at worst, a blueprint for slaughter, subjugation and apartheid.
Hmm, I see, thanks. I should try to get someone to host a screening. That's of course a perfect companion to the book. I didn't realize. http://www.reelbadarabs.com/index.html
Well, what would seem a fine sentiment on this blog. Lets hear from people on both sides, not just the "Jews control the media and therefore we don't hear the Palestinian side" posters. Funny how that old canard still works. Never mind that we Israelis think of much of the mass media as anti-Israel. Aside from the blatant anti-semitism one finds in the comments section here (lovelyisraelis take a bow) we see very few looking at the facts. Israel has demonstrated it is able and willing to make peace with painful concessions. The Palestinians? They can't even make peace with each other even after signing a treaty in their holy city of Mecca. As we speak, they are arresting and killing each other. The Palestinians have not shown one sign that peace is even something they desire. When Israel vacated Gaza, instead of making some positive use of that territory, similar to the thriving communities Israel had there, they turned it into a shooting range for rockets against Israeli civilians. Hamas has not changed their stance vis a vis the desire to remove Israel completely. Certainly their patrons in Iran have shown their true colors, but you leftists are so anti-Israel that you won't even admit that. When will their be peace in the Middle East? Simple. When Palestinians think more of their future than their past. When their so-called friends in the Arab Muslim world (who got them into this mess in the first place) have to stop using them as convenient props to divert the attention of their people. When the Palestinians realize that terror and Hamas and Islamic Jihad will NEVER lead them and their children to prosperity and peace and stability. That Iran is using them for its own purposes and will fight to the last Palestinian. After all, they had no problem sending their own children to clear minefields with a plastic "key to heaven" around their necks.
Moving forward… Yes, the internet has changed the world, but it's only what we make of it, and the results we achieve will reflect the effort we put forward. We can not count on any news or information source outside of our existing circles to convey anything to the public on our behalf, no more than we can count on Congress to respond to 100,000 or more protesters marching on Washington in the shadow another media blackout. If it is not directly in front of the people, it may as well have never happened. Reaching the people on a massive scale requires a different approach. It's time to identify and coordinate efforts with our "viable peace partners". Jewish Voices for Peace, J-Street and One Voice are good examples of who our "viable peace partners" are. It is time to stand together and join forces, strengthening and giving greater credibility to all of our voices. It's time for us to demonstrate to the world that peace between the people is more than just a possibility to work toward, it's a reality to be celebrated wherever it occurs so that it may spread.
"What is Zionism nowadays". That is one of the hundred-thousand dollar questions. To me, it is the right of the Jewish people to self-govern. " …witty But you have never explained from whence this "right" derives! This "right" which is flatly denied to every other group on earth! Why don't gays, who were also mercilessly slaughtered in the holocaust and who face FAR greater discrimination today than Jews do, have the right to self-govern? Why haven't they the right to declare San Francisco a gay state with preferential laws for gays and a policy of expelling heterosexuals, who—after all–have plenty of other places to go? Why can't they invite other gays from Wisconsin, Canada, the Canary Islands and Antwerp to come live in the homes of the heteros they have sexually cleansed from the region? By just about any measure, that would be a MORE not LESS reasonable proposition.
An ideology in "practise" can be effected by how people approach it. The revision of the original definition is an important observation. The adoption of the revision as if it was the thing itself (by the left), is a distortion.
Were zionism merely the right of the Jewish people to self govern, there would be no conflict and no Mondo Weiss site. You leave off the essential suffix, witty. Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self-govern ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LAND.
who's we? and name the "few"
"the intelligent" exhibits misty semantics and flawed logic.
I'm an "anti-semite" because I find Israeli apologists for massacres, land theft and war crimes like you to be shabbily-concocted facsimiles of human beings? You filth are now reviled by the entire solar system. Haven't you figured that out yet? (PS..I'm Jewish, so find a better infantile epithet. )
naftali – where could one begin with your post? or better yet – how do we end such ill-informed, disingenuous posts? by sending you to a re-education camp? well, that's what mondoweiss is – a place for some de-programming along with a few other things. But then, one has to first be willing to leave the cult – or was it a tribe? maybe joining another tribe will help? how about my progressives camp? it's really fun just now with the battle over public options and private revelations……so much more fun than in israel, where the argument still rages about "what and who is a Jew' while demanding Palestinians recognize Judaism as a force of nature, no matter what jews may say it is on any given day. I like these two points best from among the other pearly pathologies you scattered: 1.We Israelis think of much of the media as anti_Israel But then they would, wouldn't you? which in everyday speak (translated here for the uninitiated) means "not fawning enough". To you bronner's coverage in the NYT's probably smells anti-Israeli too. So here's a good analogy for you: – Palin cites "unfair" ethics investigations as undermining her sense of "ethics" , ie, the "truth" ie, what's good for sara is good for alaska. in your case – balance it's what the hasbara says it is 2. israel demonstrated it is willing and able to make peace….with "painful" concessions Like returning ill-gained territories? like annexing jerusalem because …well, because they wanted to, and felt entitled to? like leaving gaza to suffocate behind a wall, when not going on a baby-killing spree? like letting palestinians actually eat something once in a while? Remember naftali, just because it's painful to return a toy to its rightful owner does not make it a "generous' gesture? in most civilized parts of the world, in addition to returning the toy, an apology would be expected. i still have high hopes for you, believing that time cures all, even biblical barbarianism masquerading as modern civilization (now is that properly anti-semitic or what? ). Alas, wish i could say the same for ignorance. keep reading mondoweiss though – them 'anti-semites" always have a good link or two for you to share with CAMERA and friends.
"[The MSM] don't want to become irrelevant, because the truth is just a google search away." Now there's an insightful statement. We can think back to the beginnings of the "the press," to Ben Franklin and Poor Richard's Almanac. Without a weekly or daily paper to bring the news, one's horizons were sorely cramped, and a three month old newspaper from Paris or London might be revelatory – the absolute latest and the greatest. In the context of its times, the printed news media evolved a business model that worked, after a fashion, but became prone to economic censorship or censorship-intended-economic-pressure, by those purchasing advertising. Part of that business model was the still limited access to news, a trickle from an oligopoly of sources. Now the internet provides a firehose of news, opinion, reports, tweets, hatemail, truth, lies, everything in profusion, and the MSM's business model is supported only by its ability to uncover and sift the news so as to be the most efficient and otherwise gratifying way to stay informed. As that business model continues to be eroded, the roots of economic censorship get increasingly exposed. Now Mondoweiss has displaced, in my view, the NYT and WashPost as the premier source of news about the Middle East, with links to the best MSM news articles and opinion pieces, and a thoroughly authoritative and transformational set of viewpoints, analyses, and alternative sources of facts of the ground, to not only report what is going on in the field, but also in the editorial rooms of the MSM.
Ismail, I earnestly urge you to leave our font and go off to associate with intelligent, reasonable people. I think that average IQ of both groups will benefit from your move.
While I never expect great things from anyone named after the active ingredient in moth balls, even I am a bit surprised that this forum has never seen one solitary post by an israeli expressing anything less than total support for his or her government's sickening conduct.
eva is clever! (and accurate)
And it seems to me that a newspaper, or blog with news ambitions, to survive and thrive, in this brave new world, it must see everything, tell the truth, and be absolutely ruthless is serving it up. Ruthless truth – T for short? – is their only hope. To paraphrase Jefferson, Here we are dedicated to following the truth, wherever it may lead us, and we attack error, especially error hidden by taboos or tyranny, with all the tools reason gives us, and all the passion we can muster. How's that for an Independence Day Weekend thought? T, brothers and sisters.
The truth upsets so many of Phil's acolytes. The truth doesn't meet with their agenda.
Sorry, but there is no payment possible. Funny how Phil's supporters have a death price. Moral people don't.
Fortunately, you are not Jewish. Find a better way to lie.
Dana · 1 hour ago How do we end such ? Stop posting, Dana. That solves one such ill-informed, disingenuous poster.
How to be positive? Things are changing very quickly. Chrysler went to the wall when it became complacent and lost track of what its customers wanted. Management made some very bad decisions that actually had consequences. The same for most of the US banking sector. Turns out none of the guys at the top knew what they were doing. Israel is no different to a former titan of US business. Arrogant, untouchable, run by muppets. Unsustainable and very dependent on a business model that will struggle in the next 10 years. The last time Israel was in such deep PR shit was in the mid 70s following the 73 war. The hasbara worked that time but 30 years later there have been too many wars, too many broken promises, too many dead civilians and too much bad faith for the same tricks to work again this time. "Publish it not" has all the 1970s history. I think Israel is going to face el gordo for real this time.
Whoops! My bad. Pappy always told me: Son, he said, never engage the loopy. Back slowly out the door.
Weiss: " truth is just a google search away." a happy thought in these dark days of plowing through the non-coverage in the New York Times, LA Times and Washington Post.
Great two posts, Doppler. And don't worry – I'll take care of the naftalis, ismails and thoms. I always enjoyed weeding, for some strange reason.
One of the biggest problems is that truth is anti-American. Truth issues from the "reality based community" Bush & Co. openly scorned, to general approval. A truthful country would not allow the religious lunacy of Clinton, Bush, Obama or anyone else to pass unchallenged. Indeed, in a country that valued truth, only an atheist leader would be permissible. Instead, we have presidential "debates" in which religion can not be discussed, except by way of fawning praise. We "debate" the Mid East question in a totally fact-free environment. You can't transform a country constructed entirely on lies into a truth seeking city on a hill. Facts here have been devalued to a state of worthlessness.
I know Jack Shaheen personally. He was one of the readers for Devorah's Two Weddings and gave it a thumbs up even though I have the impression that he is not a big fan of Neil Simon-style Jewish comedy. I mention Shaheen in three blog entries:
please publish a list of products to boycott
Duscany… Look beyond American media, did deeper than current events, and find the truth. Google works, but just about anything other than Koogle will do. I don't think a Kosher search engine will retrieve something like references to "Nazi Britain" made by Jewish terrorists in the mandate of Palestine, pre-Israel, pre-Nazi Germany. What does "Nazi" actually mean anyways? And… Did anyone else know about the British being Nazis before the Germans were?
Very well summarised lovelyisraelis, The same sleazy argument is made when arguing that Israel has a right to exist, when what this usually means, is Israel has a right to exist, while denying the existence of a Palestinian state.
"You can than use the clips from the palestinian gunman shoting the 4 little jewish girls in the head at point blank range. " Of you can sue the clips of IDF soldiers shooting many more children in the West Bank at at point blank range, and arguing, successfully, that they were simply doing their job. "You can then use the clips from the Palestinian murders who ripped to Israeli Jews, limb,from limb, with their bare hands, showing off the blood for the cameras." Of you can use the clips from the Israeli murders who ripped many times more Palestinians, limb,from limb, with US supplied bombs and poising for photographs next to Palestinians they had used for target practice. "You can than show the clips of the palestinian stabbing Jewish children to death. " They don't exist, but if the Israeli's had allowed the media into Gaza, you woudl have seem clips of hundreds fo Palestinian children burnt to death. "Good counters to some drunken slurs?" Not really. Just weak attempts from a racist apologist for a fascist, terrorist, apartheid state.
And mine said, never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Show him how it's done ismail. Nothing like learning from a pro.
"This was the most insightlful quote from the article." Actually this one is, which makes a mockery of your cherry picking effort. "But instead of demonstrating for the release of Palestinian prisoners, they demonstrated for tightening the siege and collective punishment. Only Gilad was born to be free." As for being abandoned to its fate, while the Israeli public might not take any interest in Gaza any more than they do in the West Bank), their governments have maintained a vice like grip on the people and the territory since the day Israel withdrew. According to the book, Lords of the Land, by Idith Zertal and Akiva Eldar: …"Lords of the Land IsraelX Reply to all Forward Reply by chat Filter messages like this Print Add to Contacts list Delete this message Report phishing Report not phishing Show original Show in fixed width font Show in variable width font Message text garbled? Why is this spam/nonspam? Reply | Andre De Angelis show details Feb 23 Reply Follow up message The one and only comprehensive scholarly history of Israeli settlements n the occupied territories. It's been translated into English, called "Lords of the Land", by Idith Zertal and Akiva Eldar . "…. the ruined territory was not released for even a single day from Israel's military grip, or from the price of the occupation that the inhabitants pay every day. "
So according to ismael LI is not jewish because he's not a good lier.great stuff berl.
"Why on earth do you suppose that nearly everyone on this forum regards you as an apologist for Israel and her crimes against the Palestinians and no one accepts your arguments, (when they can be extracted from the dense undergrowth of free-associative language) as 'progressive.' ?" Because you/they are so fixated on what you oppose, and only regard what irritates (or not) as the standard of what you work for, that you IGNORE what is proposed.
How is land national? EVER? People self-govern. Land is just a place. How did you buy into that fascist approach, and called it progressive? PEOPLE, and as people change, the "someone else's land" argument is always temporary, always a hypocrisy to one that values democracy.
Dana, you don't seem to realize that you are in a miniscule minority. The vast majority of Jews support Israel. The vast majority of Israelis supported the operation in Gaza, with many, including me, thinking that Israel did not go far enough. Then again, what do we Israelis know compared to you. According to you, we Israelis are all programmed like members of a cult, but you "progressives" ah, you know whats what. As for lovelyisraelis, his postings here shows what Mondoweiss and the rest of you so-called progressives really are about.
Shows how ignorant you are. Naftali is the name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel who lived in ISRAEL way back before anything called a Palestinian ever existed.
NO. Please reread what lovelyisraelis said. Open your eyes. Geez.
ROFL! Certainly the Israel that ismail beryl advocate. They're hunkered down at their version of Spann Ranch out in the desert, teased by the ultimate race war–Witty is the guy who stops by, himself not willing to live there or stab with a knife, you know, just sympathetic to the cause. Sort of his own Krupp Steel.
Every human being has a right to self-govern, yet everyone knows there are limits to this–Dahmer was a firm advocate of his own self-governance, as was Manson. No man is an island. In exactly the same way, no state or organization with a right to self govern can operate anyway it pleases. Jeez, Witty grow up! If we discussed this in any context other than Israel you would be eating your own words. Instead of lecturing your boyhood pal Phil and everybody critical of Israeli actions on the blog, why don't you actually absorb what all of the above say? Nobody illustrates compartmentalism like you do–I think you might be more adept at that than Bill Clinton. Bottom line, you have no moral or ethical integrity. I understand you reluctance to have deep individual character–it's always easier to subscribe to a group ID. OK, just don't ask us to believe your shystering of humanism's tenets. Nobody ever said Socrates's lifeline was easy.
"How is land national? Ever?" By force of arms and economic pressure. Wake up. People are dying and being brutalized in the name of USA and Israel. Take your pick. Quit being a suck ass to the Rooster in charge of the hen house.
ismail prefers illicit prescription drugs to alcohol. Makes him feel superior.
So the rest of us should go along with your racist state because it has precedent in your historical genes?
Yeah. There's people around who say Hitler didn't go far enough either. Keep it up; eventually we can repeat the process in full cycle.
Yeah, Dana, allow ismail to keep posting. He makes the next real Hitler's day.
Due to Google's allowance of censorship and political prioritizing in results, eventually a new more objective competitor will arise and take customers away–unless the Harmon thought police bill sitting in the Senate is passed in the dead of night.
You don't get the contradiction between the language "national liberation", and "expulsion of non-nationals".
According to you naftali, progressive = anti-semite now? Funny because the majority of US Jews actually support progressive causes, including bringing Israel to see the light and get out of the occupation business. You do know that 80% voted for Obama, right? and most jewish people continue to support him whole-heartedly (except, of course when he is veering way too far towards the "centrists"). Who do you think is urging Obama to put some real pressure on israel to start doing the right thing? You may not accept it but a rift has opened between israel and a large section of its previous supporters. You may wish to call them all anti-semites – or, as the saying goes – self-hating jews – but these diaspora jews are realizing that their values and israel's (most israelis at least) are diverging – and fast. As the saying goes – we are no longer on the same wavelength and as time marches on you cannot anticipate the knee jerk support israelis once took for granted. Alas, based on your comments – which I consider level 2 hasbara (there are 6 levels, FYI) the lost name-sake tribe was lost for a reason.
If you continue to frame the argument into one on human rights, then the rhetoric will shift in favor of the Palestinians. I showed a map of the settlements to a group the other night and used human rights terminology, specifically of the Geneva Convention. This shocked them and the argument stopped being about a political solution, but a human rights one.
There is nothing that can make a settlement into a "painful concession" that Israel has supposedly made. Taking water from Palestinian aquifiers is not a painful concession. Ignoring Palestinian history is not a painful concession. Bulldozing 18,000 homes since 1967 is not a painful concession. Denying Arab-Israeli citizens equal rights is not a painful concession. Uprooting Palestinian orchards and putting them into a settlement is not a painful concession. What painful concessions?
Dana, I guess you were away at your "progressive camp" all those years that your friends, the oh so gentle Palestinians were firing thousands of rockets at Israeli civilians from Gaza? I guess you missed the terror attacks by Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the like that have been going on for years and years? You sit in America denouncing Israels security wall. Do you ever get on a bus and wonder if it will blow up on you that day? Do you ever go to the market or store or cinema etc and wonder if you will be a statistic that day. If you have kids, do you ever wonder if they will make it home that day or that one of those misunderstood Jihadists will take him or her to his death and his 72 virgins? To be honest though, as a Jew and an Israeli, as a son of an Auschwitz survivor, I could care less about your "approval" As we say in Israel, we have been to that movie before. We know that in the world we live in and the neighbourhood we live in, you don't get too far by listening to you so-called progressives.
Those of us who served in the IDF and fought know how bad and ugly war really is, and we want peace more than anyone. (We know very well that the so-called anti-war movement is really just a bunch of communists who hate the West they live in, and consider Israel part of that West) We know what war is like, what death and destruction are like. We also know that if we were to ever lose a war, there would be Jewish blood neck high in the streets. So, you can stuff your "progressive" BS
no he's a humanist first
Sure, that's why the German soldiers fought so fiercely too. We understand. We don't agree with you. We are trying hard to make our fellow Americans realize how ugly your occupation is, and how against US and Humanism's best interests.
As a non-Jew and an American, and the son of many dead veteran forefathers and a veteran myself, speaking on behalf of all of us, we could care less about your approval, and we hate that our taxpayer dollars give Israel 8 million dollars a day, and much more less directly. We don't like supporting a country that has values more similar to Nazi Germany's than to the USA. We hate our AIPAC whore congress. We realize we need to change our political campaign finance laws, and we look elsewhere than our AIPAC whore MSM for our breaking news. We realize what Truman did, that the test of virtue is power, and that Jews as Overdog are at least as evil as any other Overdog.