Comments on: Medea Benjamin to talk about her 3 visits to Gaza, in NY tom’w night

By: Shingo

Shingo — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:48:56 +0000

And when I have brought facts to my argument, you've arbitrarily dimissed them as not cedible, withouth giving a reason. You lost the debate. QED.

By: Shingo

Shingo — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:47:53 +0000

The quote was from someone who interviewed Meeshal. The important point si that this interview is consistent with intrerviews that other reporters have had with Meeshal, like Carter and Sy Hersh. Carter told us that: "They said that they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders, if approved by Palestinians, and that they would accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbor next door in peace, provided the agreements negotiated by Prime Minister Olmert and President Abbas were submitted to the Palestinians for their overall approval." Hersh, who interviewed .. for a story for the New Yorker recently that: "What we may—and Meshaal has said to me, in that visit and previous visits, “The Israelis keep on wanting me to talk about Israel publicly and say I recognize Israel. For a man of the resistance, that would be suicidal. But what I do say is—and I’ve said this, too, publicly”—and he said it to Carter—“I understand there’s a state called Israel.” And he’s not—he just won’t say what the Israelis want him to say." So here's the thing Thom. You can choose to obsess about the Hamas Charter and lock yourself into your belief that Hamas will never change and is commited to destoying Israel, or you can entertain the possibility that Hamas are becomming more moderate and more pragmatic. It's up to you.

By: Shingo

Shingo — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:40:41 +0000

Shocked are you Thom, or have you just run out of tactics to derail the topic at hand. Look, Begin was a putz. No one is suggesting that he speaks for Israel. My point was that taking incendiary comments and attributing them to an antire population is futile.

By: Shingo

Shingo — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:38:49 +0000

“As for disseminating the message. All governments do that.” Exactly, which is why only independent reporting and independent investigations can be trusted. No one is ever going to believe the what the Israeli government tells us because the one thing we know about war is that truth is the first casualty. Israel have nothing to gain but allowing the truth to be known. They want their spokespeople to give a consistent message, in spite of the facts. They want to avoid embarrassing incidents, or if that fails, they will deny them and cover them up, such as arguing that Hamas broke the ceasefire, while admitting that they did, or claim the attack on Gaza was to stop the rocket attacks, while admitting that there were no rocket attacks until they broke the ceasefire. The saddest example was Mark Regev trying to convince reporters that Israel wanted to work with the Red Cross, while they were blocking the Red Cross from getting to victims. Many Zionists blame anti-Semites fro inconvenient truths coming out. You and Jake for example, attack any Jew or Israeli that dares to speak out against Israel. If they’ve spoken ill of Israel, there is something wrong with them. They are self hating Jews or anti Semites. Israel used to have a free press. It now routinely arrests reporters when it’s not killing them. “The Israeli Supreme Court didn't say that keeping journalist out of active combat zones was illegal, just that keeping them out when the crossings are otherwise open is illegal. “ That’s called a discintion without a difference. Foreign journalists were blocked from entering Gaza by Isreal. The Foreign Press Association condemned the closure, saying: "We regard this as an unconscionable breach of the Israeli Government's responsibility to allow journalists to do their jobs in this region," further explaining that "the international media serve as the world's window into Gaza providing vital coverage of all aspects of Gazan life to news consumers around the world." I’m not lying Thom. I’m just raising inconvenient truth, which I know are anti Semitic by definition.

By: Thom

Thom — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:15:59 +0000

As I said, you should quit using legal terms you don't understand. Hearsay is repeating what someone else said, not saying what you saw. Not even lying about what you saw. If I said I saw you (Shingo) kill someone, that would be a lie, but not hearsay. If I had video tape of someone killing someone, but didn't see the killing, and I heard Jim say that he saw Fred kill the guy, then if I say "Jim said he saw Fred do it" that would be hearsay from me because I was repeating what someone else said. Credibility of a witness is a separate issue. The white supremacist's credibility may be attacked, but that statement isn't hearsay. Here is an easy test, if the person says "I saw this happen" that is not hearsay. As for disseminating the message. All governments do that. They want their spokespeople to give a consistent message, not be talking at cross purposes. They want to avoid embarrassing incidents such as when one person thinks a particular type of weapon isn't being used when it actually is, then the anti-Semites turn the statement that corrects the mistake into a big conspiracy. Israel has a free press, which is more than you can say for any other country in the Middle East. The Israeli Supreme Court didn't say that keeping journalist out of active combat zones was illegal, just that keeping them out when the crossings are otherwise open is illegal. Don't you ever get tired of lying?

By: Thom

Thom — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:04:20 +0000

Hey, you're the one who said you do it. The "quote" I posted proves it. Frankly, I am shocked at both your perverted behavior and your willingness to admit it in a valid source in 1982. BTW, this is exactly the topic at hand since the topic at hand is your fake quotes and who has the responsibility to prove it, the person making the positive claim, or the person who says "bullshit".

By: Thom

Thom — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:00:21 +0000

The quote is from some random blogger, not from anyone with authority over Hamas. What exactly is your obsession with posting quotes from random people to prove things in the quotes that the people have no valid basis for saying? So some random blogger thinks that the leader of Hamas is saying that the Charter has no practical relevance. The leader of Hamas never said that. The blogger is just putting words into his mouth. Of course, you think that any quote must be valid to prove whatever the quote says, because for you written=true. Which is why we know you are a SCGBSOAW, from your valid quote in the New Statesman in which you confessed to it.

By: Thom

Thom — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:42:07 +0000

LOL. Dentures. I like that. Sorry, I have all my teeth and walk just fine. Still, I would expect such a hallucination from a SCGBSOAW like you. You provided a link to a report that shows that Hezbollah used human shields. A report from people who were there, not a report from people who came in months later and parroted whatever lies Hezbollah said. The report you cited mentions video. Go do your own research.

By: Thom

Thom — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:35:57 +0000

You should at least try to get that Ze'ev Schiff quote you keep harping about right. Go look it up before you misquote him again. Also, I thought the use of cluster bombs in Lebanon was a major reason why the Lebanese were pissing and moaning. They are anti-personel weapons, but they don't kill indiscriminately. They are supposed to create a large area of relatively small explosions at a particular place. They sometimes don't all go off when dropped, which leads to danger later if that place ceases to be a battleground and civilians come back. White phosphorus was used to produce smoke screens, a few civilians may have been hit by accident. 10,000 is the estimated number of ground troops I have read. I can't find a source with a definitive answer on how many it was though. Still Israel has more than enough firepower to wipe out Gaza without sending any ground troops in. ROFL. Sorry, that is just too funny. "Israel has time on its hands". Israel killed fewer Palestinians in Gaza than were born in Gaza during the operation. Even by Palestinian inflated numbers, Israel killed under 1400. Meanwhile about 5,000 were born. You are like the guy who said "we lose money on every sale, but we make it up in volume". If Israel killed 1400 Palestinians every single month, the Palestinian population would still be one of the fastest growing in the world. Are you just bad at math or are you simply lying again?

By: Thom

Thom — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:06:49 +0000

" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield "In November 2006, Palestinian women volunteered as human shields to allow the escape of Hamas gunmen from Israeli forces in Beit Hanoun in the Gaza Strip. The armed Palestinians had barricaded themselves in a mosque, which was surrounded by Israeli troops and tanks. According to a Hamas spokeman, a crowd of women gathered outside the mosque in response to an appeal on the local radio station for women to protect the Hamas fighters. The Palestinian gunmen escaped by dressing in women's clothes and hiding in the large group." There have also been instances of Israelis calling off an attack on a weapon storage house when they Palestinians were warned to evacuate and instead packed it with civilian women and children. "Also in the same month, the Israeli Air Force warned Mohammed Weil Baroud, a Palestinian leader said to be responsible for firing Qassam rockets at Israel, to evacuate his home in Beit Lahia in the Gaza Strip in advance of an airstrike. Instead, hundreds of Palestinians, including many women and children, gathered outside Baroud's house. Israel suspended the airstrike out of fear that the human shields would be killed or injured. In response to Israel's reaction, another Palestinian leader said: 'We have won. From now on we will form human chains around every house that is threatened with demolition.'[8] The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs claims Hamas now regularly uses human shields to protect the homes of Hamas officials.[9]" As to all Israelis are in the IDF. It doesn't work that way. The homes of ordinary civilians are not legitimate targets just because they happen to be in the reserves. The reason the Palestinian terrorists homes are military targets is because they use them to store arsenals.