MJ Rosenberg has a fabulous post on TPM today advising Obama, whom he met with last year, not to go to the Holy Land:
The one substantive suggestion arising from this screed is that Obama visit Israel. No way. I admire the US secret service but the religion/racial fueled hate for Obama in Israel (and the Rabin experience) tells me he should not go there until Israel comes to its senses.
Also, why should he? Presidents do not have to traipse over to foreign countries to explain themselves. America's treatment of the Arabs for decades made a trip necessary. But 60 years of nonstop love from the US, coupled with massive foreign aid is enough of a valentine. In general, however, I do not think our Presidents should visit countries where a sizable chunk of the population virulently hates him and no doubt would like to see him dead.
Some Israelis said about Rabin, before he was killed, what they are now saying about Obama. And the number of death threats against Ariel Sharon skyrocketed when he pulled the settlers out of Gaza. I have long spoken about the role of Israeli assassinations of counter-voices, from de Haan to Arlosoroff to Bernadotte to Rabin. Bang-Bang, You're Right Wing!
Tough Israel of my childhood. Rude Israel. All sold as charming-- but what has Israel become? Rosenberg links Max Blumenthal's video from Tel Aviv.
He's probably right. There are some real nuts there.
RE: "Scratch Jerusalem, Barack, it's … Chinatown." NEWS FROM THE HOLY LAND: "10 police officers hurt as Jerusalem riots continue into the night", by Jonathan Lis, Haaretz Correspondent, 07/17/09 (EXCERPT) Riots in Jerusalem over the recent arrest of an ultra-Orthodox woman suspected of starving her 3-year-old son escalated as demonstrators concluded their third consecutive day of violent protests with no indication that they were planning to ease up. So far ten police officers have been lightly hurt by stone throwers. Three of them were taken to the emergency room at Hadassah hospital after sustaining head injuries. All in all, hundreds of police officers participated in the dispersal efforts, including officers called up from other districts. 20 demonstrators were detained for questioning. Hundreds of people also arrived at a rally, in support of the mother, held at Jerusalem's Shabbat Square. The demonstrators called out insults against Hadassah hospital, where the ill boy is recuperating…. ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1100683.html
If you honestly think Obama was safer in Egypt than he would be in Israel you are nuts. The big bad Israeli security establishment can keep Obama safe I assure you, and they would be secondary to the Secret Service The Rabin assassination was a total security breakdown, many in Israel think it was a conspiracy like the JFK assassination in America.
Maybe they listen to talk radio too.
Why hasn't someone blamed this on the Arabs yet? Jake in Jerusalem. Calling Jake in Jerusalem.
Really. Did Israel want to escalate in Vietnam too?
Yoni, I've heard similar things about Rabin's assassination, but as usual with these types of issues, it's hard to know what to believe. Could you post some more info or sources that you think are good?
I would say too, that if there is any truth that Rabin was the victim of a conspiracy, I would expect that certain elements of "the big bad Israeli security establishment" were also involved. If that's true, there's no reason to expect that Obama would be safe. I am not necessarily buying into any conspiracy theory, just speculating on Yoni C's post.
Yes I honestly believe Obama is much, much safer in Egypt than Israel. And Yoni – you are in no position to be calling anybody 'nuts'. I wonder if Obama was assassinated in Israel (highly possible) whether that would change the 'special relationship' a little bit? What do you think Yoni. C? Probably not….
I'm sure it would be blamed on a "lone gunman" and every effort would be made, not just in Israel but in the American mainstream media as well, to emphasize that Israel should not be blamed for the "unfortunate tragedy."
Blumenthal video edited propaganda.
The big bad Israeli security establishment can keep Obama safe I assure you,… The Israeli 'establishment' is riven with virulently racist fascists. It would be a primary security threat for any Presidential visit. I'm not saying that the PM, DM, etc would countenance assassination. I am saying that the Israeli government has exhibited over many years an alarming and sustained degradation of state authority, and that the proliferation of extremists within the Israeli government, especially the IDF, who do what they damn well please instead of what command authority directs, is such an epidemic that Israeli government security 'guarantees' are worthless. It is this degradation of popular conception of state legitimacy among Israelis that presages the doom of the current structure of the Israeli government. It is foolish to reach the opposite conclusion by assessing economic health, even if that could be done successfully despite consideration of the ugly reality of Israel's fundamental dependence upon American largess. Cherry-picking comforting metrics won't save you from reality. I see no signs suggesting any reversal, or even diminution, of this trend. No one can destroy Israel faster than Israelis, and you people letting your wackos run wild is the surest way to make it happen. I suspect that President Obama will receive the same thanks for attempting to save you from yourselves that President Carter, the father of the Egyptian peace, endures from your ingrate extremists.
I don't really know what to believe either, but like the JFK assassination there is compelling evidence which eludes to some sort of conspiracy. Barry Chamish wrote a good book on it, He might be a bit of a quack, just like all conspiracy theorists. Like JFK and the Zapruder film Rabin has the Kempler film: http://kemplervideo.blogspot.com/2006/04/kempler-... Not saying I believe it, just find it interesting…..
How wouldn't it? there are many whackos on here who would kill the sitting President of the US to put Israel and the "relationship" in jeopardy.
Carter had shit to do w/ the Peace, it was all Sadat
[rolls eyes with incredulous pity]
"I made a tragic mistake," the lone gunman, a Druze, said shortly after his arrest. "I thought he looked like a mad Egyptian bomber I saw in one of those local fliers in my neighborhood. They say he sported an American flag. I didn't see any flag. A lapel pin? I wasn't close enough to see any stick pin!"
Right on! And we can survive, and thrive just fine without your chintzy US tax dollars! They just clutter up our lovely beach properties.
I hope that Obama goes to Israel, and convinces them to moderate in the ways that they can. To argue that peace is FAR FAR more secure than a fortress.
Hasbara text supplement.
This is a good point about the degradation of the IDF. This may also be why the two state solution is doomed. Removal of the settlers would require IDF cooperation. It is not clear that they would obey any such orders. Of course we don't know this for sure, but the government must know. This uncertainty in the loyalty of the IDF and Israel security services — i.e. is their loyalty to the state or to some flavor of zionist ideology? — makes any trip by Obama to Israel very foolish indeed.
I have reported this posting for the threatening poster name.
Like they are going to listen? Just exactly how many voices of reason have you come across lately in Israel? More importantly – here's the real trick question – how many israelis have you ever met* that can actually – ever – listen, period? ___ * you can meet them sometimes in the US – but only if they were there for longer than, say, 5 years?
RE: "Scratch Jerusalem, Barack, it's … Chinatown" FROM IMDb: "Chinatown", Directed by Roman Polanski, Oscar-winning screenplay by Robert Towne, (1974) Noah Cross is played by John Huston / Jake Gitts is played by Jack Nicholson Noah Cross: "You may think you know what you're dealing with, but, believe me, you don't." [Gittes grins] Noah Cross: "Why is that funny?" Jake Gittes: "That's what the District Attorney used to tell me in Chinatown." [last line] Walsh: "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." SOURCE – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/
at least you don't stereotype ppl? how many palestinians have you ever met that didn't wear a bomb belt?