A report in Haaretz on a Cabinet meeting yesterday at which Netanyahu rebuked Shin Bet security service head Yuval Diskin when he started talking about the peace process and Hamas's shifting public stance. The piece hints at a closeted Netanyahu, with a Strangelove aide, Uzi Arad, whispering into his thick ear.
Uzi Arad, who tries to save his rage for the goyim.
Netanyahu is cornered, and cornered men are dangerous. Two things are happening, and in an international political environment of hostility seeking to militarily and politically prepare to confront Iran, and in a domestic environment of very divided Israel and very fragile coalition. 1. The US has decreased its intimacy of intelligence transfer, so that Israel must rely on solely its own sources. It has better on the ground intelligence than the US, but the US has MUCH MUCH better global intelligence capability. (satellites primarily). 2. There is a public scrap on the settlements, that Israel strongly prefers to keep private. They fear (rationally), the logic that is employed by opportunists of "we've got them on the run" will encourage opportunistic actions by fanatics, as occurred in 2006. That hasn't yet resulted in increased terror, even from Hezbollah, perhaps because Iran is trying to let time go by on its international image. But, they horribly NEGLECT, the possibility that Obama represents of actually closing the deal on a comprehensive peace that results in much more defensible borders (for the underlying treaties and ultimately required intelligence cooperation), and clarity as to borders. (When a clear border is violated, it is a clear violation.) The consequences of unresponded terror from within a border with a state that Israel has a treaty, is a state of war, rather than a state of ambiguity.
Hezbollah doesn't do small things. It organizes, and makes a big splash. Hamas does small things, irritations.
Interesting. Seems like the old rivalry between B-yahou and Israel's intelligence forces are still present. Kind of makes me wonder if B-Yahou will undertake stupid ventures against Shin Bet and Mossad advice as he did in the past.
Witty – I cannot let your incitement against hezbollah and hamas go unchallenged (even though no one takes it seriously on this site). You should at least internalize the fact that hezbollah is a genuine Lebanese internal movement, which pursues its own policies and goals at least as independently as israel does. Probably more so, because israel is a hostage to its own fanatic fundamentalists who are supported by their chabbadnik and hasidic bretherns in the US. The equations between hamas and Iran are false as well. hamas is a nationalist-islamist movement, more similar to communist nationalist movements of Africa or South America than anything else. Sure, those may have had support from Russia (tacit if not explicit) but the origins were always a struggle against colonialism and colonial vestiges which left economic disparities behind. Be it as it may, hamas and hezbollah are independent indiginous movements and should be treated as such, no matter what the hasbarah is telling you to repeat (and as I said before, you are not doing it well). In fact, I'll bet you anything that both hamas and hezbollah will be happy to receive your contributions to their cause (if not your instructions, whiich are bound to be counter-purposeful and totally chaotic).
Seems clear Netanayahu believes Hamas will always in the end stick to its ideology. I imagine Hamas sees Israel as always sticking to its ideology in the end too; certainly nothing so far has indicated otherwise. Basically, no trust. And freudian projection to the max. As the comparative superpower, and occupier, isn't it time for Israel to take the first step? Maybe Israel and Obama should look at the lack of cost to Israel of occupation: Israelis don't pay price for injustice of occupation By Gideon Levy 19/07/2009 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1101176.html
They are both extra-legal because of their dual nature as political parties and as militias. It is opportunist to shift from one to the other, and is known to the world as crying wolf. That you are so gullible as to not question that shifting, speaks poorly for you. The Hamas movement includes multiple divisions and perspectives. One is guided by political/militia/resistance orientation and was responsible for the restoration of shelling of Israeli civilians, using materials and funds supplied by Iran largely (not exclusively clearly). In contrast the elements of the group (the basis of GENUINE respect) that are more oriented to community education, public and social services, largely opposed the restoration of shelling of Israeli civilians. You may object to what you think is implied by my statements. As the funding of Israel implies a "corruption" of Israeli will, the presence of Iranian funding and training of militias DISTORTS Palestinian will. It is something different than just support.
Also, most in Chabad have a different attitude and relationship to Israel then you portray. I know they are easy targets, looking funny, somewhat insular. You'd have to talk to them, respectfully, to actually find out what they think.
Poor Levy. He wants to see some more bus bombings or another Passover Massacre to make him feel better. Life is way too good in Israel. What a jerk.
Witty: "[Hezbollah and Hamas] are both extra-legal because of their dual nature as political parties and as militias." Then so are the Israeli settlers, who also conflate politics and religion, and undertake extra-legal militia actions (according to international law), and have been doing so for decades.
RE: "Life is way too good in Israel." NEWS FROM THE HOLY LAND: "10 police officers hurt as Jerusalem riots continue into the night", by Jonathan Lis, Haaretz Correspondent, 07/17/09 (EXCERPT) Riots in Jerusalem over the recent arrest of an ultra-Orthodox woman suspected of starving her 3-year-old son escalated as demonstrators concluded their third consecutive day of violent protests with no indication that they were planning to ease up. So far ten police officers have been lightly hurt by stone throwers. Three of them were taken to the emergency room at Hadassah hospital after sustaining head injuries. All in all, hundreds of police officers participated in the dispersal efforts, including officers called up from other districts. 20 demonstrators were detained for questioning. Hundreds of people also arrived at a rally, in support of the mother, held at Jerusalem's Shabbat Square. The demonstrators called out insults against Hadassah hospital, where the ill boy is recuperating…. ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1100683.html
Next time it will hurt more
Kind of like you.
Ed – good point. Even better example from israel's own back yard – haganah had the same nature as militia and political entity as well did their more extreme counterparts – irgun and lehi. In fact, it would be difficult to find a single genuine national liberation movement that did not have the same "dual" nature. Which should be kind of obvious. After all, if a group could genuinely participate politically in a country or a region, there would be no need for malitia in the first place. hamas is a good example – had they been allowed to take their rightful place as winners of the palestinian elections (won fair and square) then by now they would be in charge of the "legitimate" or at least official palestinian security forces. I'm trying to guess at what witty's answer to this is likely to be and am apparently suffering a failure of imagination. maybe the rational side gets in the way?
For whom?
"somewhat insular" LOL Go visit Postville, IA Borak should do a full length movie satire on Crown Heights. But he won't since he's an Orthodox Jew.
I only have words and rational observations to contribute.
The settler movement that harrasses Palestinian civilians is reprehensible. However, they are organized only to the extent of petty harrassment, that can and should be controlled by police. Hamas and Hezbollah are of an entirely different stripe. They are the bi-polar status of simultaneously political party and militia. The Kahane organizations were made illegal in Israel, in spite of Eitan's reference to a Kahanist website. That is NOT the case in Lebanon with Hezbollah, nor with Hamas in West Bank and Gaza.
Tomorrow Belong To Me.
We need a new version–a settler teen can get up and sing the song, originally written by Jews anyway. Yes, though, next time it will hurt more.
Again we see comparisons of Jews to Nazi. Common theme on this site though completely unwarranted. It takes the discussion to an anachronistic sphere of argumentation that makes no sense.
Well, one out of two, at least.
Destroying Palestinian trees and crops and attacking farmers tending their crops are NOT petty harassments. Neither are the physical attacks and murders that various extremist settlers have perpetrated. They should be controlled by police or the IDF but are not, indicating that the IDF and police are either in fear of prosecuting them or are in agreement with their activities and chose to look the other way. If one reads the "Lords of the Land" it is apparent that the extremist settler organizations are simultaneously a political force in Israel and a militia( The IDF often provides some weapons directly to the settlers, and they are allowed to provide for their own "protection" in some instances.)
Yes and we wil continue to see comparisons of israel to Nazi as long as Israel behaves like Nazis. No one is comparing Jews to Nazis Eitan, and you know it.
ouch!
I don't believe comparing Jews to Nazi is a good way to make an argument. I never compare Arabs to Nazi even though there are many people that make this case. I believe it shows an inability to argue on a rational scale. It's more of a "low blow" in order to put the "Jew in his place" Like saying, "You were slaughtered, and it could happen again unless you behave"
eitan was responding (enthusiastically) to my earlier link of the same title. http://ingaza.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/next-time-... A charming fellow, isn;t he?
We're not comparing Jews to Nazis. You are. Zionists like yourself are fascists. Any rational observer would agree. On this blog, you, Scum in Jerusalem, and Thom regularly employ deep intellectual dishonest arguments and even (often) outright lies to further your agenda. You've even mocked the issue of malnutrition amongst Palestinian children affected by the blockade. You're a sick coward.
I disagree. Zionists are not fascists. I also believe that rational observes would be repulsed by the general anti-Jewish and pro terrorist stance on this forum. I believe in the Jewish right to build and settle massively in our land.
Zionists believe in the superiority of their religion and ethnicity, which is the basis of fascism. You are far from rational, therefore you would not have any idea as to what rational observes would think. Rational observes are disgusted with Israel however. Rational observes would be repulsed at the notion of Jewish right to build and settle massively on land that does not belong to Jews or Israel, especially given there is no need for such expansion.
Zionism is not the belief in superiority of religion and ethnicity. Rational observers support Israel and the Jewish right to massively settle our land. There is a need for massive settlement of the Jewish nation in our land.
Any Jew claiming to support Palestinians but refusing to identify Zionism as ethnic Ashkenazi Nazism that must be eradicated is simply trying to protect the State of Israel and Jewish privilege. From Anti-Zionist Strategy for Muslim Americans
Here's more from Anti-Zionist Strategy for Muslim Americans:
That's pretty cool you have a little guidebook for Anti-Zionists. That being said there are all sorts of Jews in Israel, black, Indian, Arab etc.
It's an interesting tactic. One the one hand many people moan and say "Those Jews, they are always acting the victim because of the Holocause I am so SICK of it" And on the other hand they say "Jews act just like Nazis and are the inheritors of their belief system." It's really a lose lose proposition either way you look at it. I prefer from both sides to leave out the Nazi discourse as it is anachronistic and 99.99 percent of the time not a proper comparison be it Jew or Arab
The best definition of fascism I've read (in 'the Nature of Fascism') is the belief in an organic community which must achieve a certain state of being it previously held. Doesn't sound like Zionism at all!
ethnic Ashkenazim – check must be eradicated – yes Nazism – no, unless everything worthy of oppositon has to be Nazi.
Personally, I think you're anti-semitic because of phrases like, "While Jewish financial malfeasance was not a cause of the market crash or the depression, it was a definite component." Now, making hard factual parallels between Zionist and Nazi thought, such as Norman Finkelstein's critique of "The Seventh Day" in Image and Reality and this post by Gabriel Ash http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2009/01/et... is not anti-semitic and good analysis. (cont'd in part II if it goes up)
Baldly asserting Zionism = Nazism is not anti-semitic, but it's bad analysis because you don't have to be Nazi to be racist, expansionist and genocidal. These were all accomplished before Hitler started painting. Zionists are more bent on co-opting humanism and many supporters of Israel pretend to care about democracy in the Arab world. Also, the standard of living for many Palestinians increased during the first decade after the Naqsa due to wages in Israel. This prevented the territories from developing their own economy, so it was colonization, but Nazis would've just worked them to death and be done with it. Israel has aspects of Nazism and the British Raj. It's not fullblown Nazism.
I would love to see someone do a documentary of the (very real) comparisons between Zionism and Nazism and show it in the USA. The similarities are striking but it has to be followed from WW2, the creation of Israel till now. Israel would be over! The Israeli people would discover that Israel was set up for purposes that have nothing to do with the Jewish people, and that Israelis and Jews in general are being duped. Like Phil's mom. Well come to think of it, I suppose many could not handle the truth and would bury their heads in the sand even deeper. All the murder in their name for evil purposes and they supported it. it would be too much. I would like to see such a documentary anyway! I have no such guilt to hide from.
There is no comparison. Only antisemetic leftists make that comparison. You are the one that had been duped.
The only element missing from the Zionism=Nazism is the ovens. But the Israelis are high tech, they have been using chemical weapons on the Palestinians and Lebanese for years. Not just during outright clashes as many believe but whenever Israel darn well pleases. When they want to do a bigger cleansing, then they set the stage for a "clash" because for sure there will be an international audience. So things have to be done right. An example of that is the 2006 S. Lebanon attack in which the Israeli air force violated Lebanon's airspace (nothing new) on July 12 and bombed some roads and a bridge and a house. I forget the details exactly but in any case, this is how they set their "stage" for a clash. Whatever Hizbollah or the Palestinians do in response invokes the big whammy and Israel claims they were attacked. While it's true that the Arabs initially benefited from Israel economy, it was via the Ha'avara Transfer agreement the Zionists had with Hitler that the economy happened at all. The Arabs were never meant to be in that picture for long as Israel was active in the campaign of importing Jews from poor countries to replace the Arab labor. The Zionists have their agenda and work it all systematically along with the appropriate propaganda in order to lull the world into inertness. It works like a charm. Now we behold the master plan unfolding unabashedly and unabated. Because that's how close they are. That's why I keep saying there is no such thing as a 2 state solution. Not even the discussion! Even now that many more people are clued in to the Zionist agenda because of the internet, it is way too late. Not just for Palestine. We should be so lucky if there was a limit! It's not like some black president is going to step into the picture and find himself with the power to thwart the Zionist plan! They are all in their places with the proper strings attached. I said it before. It is non negotiable. It is unstoppable. Gotta hand it to them, they are organized and have been for over a hundred years while we were smelling the roses and getting high! And our grandparents too!
The comparison is beyond dispute. Israelis hate it when a mirror is held up to them.
I have been looking at economic data for 20 years. Conspiracy, manipulation, and corruption explain much more about the markets than most economists are willing to admit. Eastern European ethnic Ashkenazim developed an extremely sophisticated form of corrupt social networking before Commonwealth Poland collapsed — in fact Jewish economic malfeasance was probably a major factor as some Jewish scholars pointed out in the 17th century. In the eighteenth century, native Italian Jews were complaining about business cheating by ethnic Ashkenazi immigrants. Whenever I am working on Wall Street, I am asked whether I am Jewish so that my interlocuters can determine whether I can participate in the Jewish finance networks that trade insider date and whose members protect one another. We can take ethnic Ashkenazi economic malfeasance as a given and argue about why it exists, but denial is the prejudice. I spent a long time looking at The Bell Curve during the 70s to understand the data, which was mostly correct even though the interpretation was wrong.