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	<title>Comments on: Some reflections on women&#8217;s roles in Gaza</title>
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	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
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		<title>By: Scott McConnell on Christopher Caldwell&#8217;s &#8216;Reflections&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-105980</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McConnell on Christopher Caldwell&#8217;s &#8216;Reflections&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-105980</guid>
		<description>[...] to be the hardest of all.&#160; There have been glimpses of this on mondoweiss: Phil Weiss&#8217;s candid post about his unease at the advance of the headscarf in Gaza and the correlated limitations on women&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to be the hardest of all.&nbsp; There have been glimpses of this on mondoweiss: Phil Weiss&rsquo;s candid post about his unease at the advance of the headscarf in Gaza and the correlated limitations on women&rsquo;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shafiq</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-103541</link>
		<dc:creator>Shafiq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-103541</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;what do you have to support your argument that mixed schools perform better than segregated schools? &lt;/i&gt;

I was talking solely about the schools in my community, where the mixed ones have consistently outperformed the segregated ones.

As for the rest of your post, I don&#039;t understand what you mean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>what do you have to support your argument that mixed schools perform better than segregated schools? </i></p>
<p>I was talking solely about the schools in my community, where the mixed ones have consistently outperformed the segregated ones.</p>
<p>As for the rest of your post, I don&#8217;t understand what you mean.</p>
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		<title>By: seansmom</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-103523</link>
		<dc:creator>seansmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 10:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-103523</guid>
		<description>Makes sense, Eva,  I always read that God is closer to the weak because it&#039;s then we are open or reaching out. When we are back on our feet and moving forward, we don&#039;t even look back to thank God!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes sense, Eva,  I always read that God is closer to the weak because it&#8217;s then we are open or reaching out. When we are back on our feet and moving forward, we don&#8217;t even look back to thank God!</p>
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		<title>By: seansmom</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-103522</link>
		<dc:creator>seansmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 09:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-103522</guid>
		<description>RE:One of the reasons why I support a one-state solution is because it will enable Palestinians to live in a liberal society – here in Britain, you can have two sisters, one covered head to toe and the other wearing Western clothing, and no-one would blink an eyelid. 

 I&#039;m curious , what do you have to support your argument that mixed schools perform better than segregated schools? And regarding the point being made in the post we are commenting on,  since you disagree with your community leader&#039;s  call on the issue, would you solicit the local Jehovah Witness chapter if they agreed to come in and offer influence? Maybe offer your children seats in their classrooms because you all  (Muslims) are so backward? Remember from your own religion which states clearly that a Muslim does not take a non Muslim as an intimate friend nor accept their help because they offer help only to rob you of your treasure which is your religion. There is a reason why Muslims stay within their own community. Take a closer look at the post. Read deeper, it carries an important message for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE:One of the reasons why I support a one-state solution is because it will enable Palestinians to live in a liberal society – here in Britain, you can have two sisters, one covered head to toe and the other wearing Western clothing, and no-one would blink an eyelid. </p>
<p> I&#8217;m curious , what do you have to support your argument that mixed schools perform better than segregated schools? And regarding the point being made in the post we are commenting on,  since you disagree with your community leader&#8217;s  call on the issue, would you solicit the local Jehovah Witness chapter if they agreed to come in and offer influence? Maybe offer your children seats in their classrooms because you all  (Muslims) are so backward? Remember from your own religion which states clearly that a Muslim does not take a non Muslim as an intimate friend nor accept their help because they offer help only to rob you of your treasure which is your religion. There is a reason why Muslims stay within their own community. Take a closer look at the post. Read deeper, it carries an important message for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Seham: &#8217;social conservatism in Gaza is a result of violent occupation&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-103469</link>
		<dc:creator>Seham: &#8217;social conservatism in Gaza is a result of violent occupation&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 02:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-103469</guid>
		<description>[...] night Phil Weiss did a post on his observations of women&#8217;s roles in Gaza. Seham, a young Californian of Palestinian ancestry and a regular contributor here, had [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] night Phil Weiss did a post on his observations of women&#8217;s roles in Gaza. Seham, a young Californian of Palestinian ancestry and a regular contributor here, had [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Some reflections on women&#39;s roles in Gaza&#160;&#124;&#160;Adwan US</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-103468</link>
		<dc:creator>Some reflections on women&#39;s roles in Gaza&#160;&#124;&#160;Adwan US</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-103468</guid>
		<description>[...] View post: Some reflections on women&#039;s roles in Gaza [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] View post: Some reflections on women&#39;s roles in Gaza [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-103448</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-103448</guid>
		<description>btw. When you greet an older man in the Arab world, address him as Haji. Address an older  women as Hala. Never look any woman straight in the face (lower your gaze and respect their modesty, and never but never be alone with a woman even by accident) and don&#039;t shake hands with anyone unless a man makes the gesture first. It&#039;s ruins their wadu. Arabs generally stay away from dogs because dogs ruin a person&#039;s wadu too if they are touched. Wadu is the cleansing process Muslim perform for prayer (like nuns) and they like to keep it as long as possible.  If you give the impression you have &quot;missionary&quot; tendacies, that is, to try and teach them away from their religion (everything they do is connected with religion) they may kidnap you, lock you in a room with a Quran for a few days. Just kidding, but the Taliban does it! It&#039;s just not kosher to be a missionary in the Muslim world. You have to be mindful that YOU are the backward foreinger, not the other way around! Christian Arabs are not much different than Muslim ones. hardly I can tell the difference. They both reference God as Allah and follow many of the same customs. Many Christians fast for Ramadan. So just treat them all the same. Palestinians are happy and friendly people. They are most like Americans than any other people I know when it comes to disposition in many ways, I am always comfortable around them. They love jokes. They know westerners don&#039;t know anything  (of their ways) and they are patient but you can&#039;t cross certain lines as I am telling you. Say a few words in Arabic and they love you for attempting to learn. Palestinians are more &quot;old fashion&quot; in many ways as opposed to others in other areas. If they invite you to dinner and you are served a goat&#039;s head on a platter that is a great honor! Like getting the king treatment.
You may know all or a few or nothing of what I&#039;ve told you.  But after this post I am under the impression you are over there just like a typical westerner in the Middle East, nothing more. You should try and become one of them. Never try and change what in reality is &quot;golden.&quot; Just  cherish it.  Palestinians are so warm as opposed to cold Jews (sorry to say that but in comparison it&#039;s true) you would grow to love them more than your own people. The children are the best creatures there. Get close to them, walk around the streets with them (they will find you) they will  act as your guides and be your joy in the Middle East.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>btw. When you greet an older man in the Arab world, address him as Haji. Address an older  women as Hala. Never look any woman straight in the face (lower your gaze and respect their modesty, and never but never be alone with a woman even by accident) and don&#8217;t shake hands with anyone unless a man makes the gesture first. It&#8217;s ruins their wadu. Arabs generally stay away from dogs because dogs ruin a person&#8217;s wadu too if they are touched. Wadu is the cleansing process Muslim perform for prayer (like nuns) and they like to keep it as long as possible.  If you give the impression you have &#8220;missionary&#8221; tendacies, that is, to try and teach them away from their religion (everything they do is connected with religion) they may kidnap you, lock you in a room with a Quran for a few days. Just kidding, but the Taliban does it! It&#8217;s just not kosher to be a missionary in the Muslim world. You have to be mindful that YOU are the backward foreinger, not the other way around! Christian Arabs are not much different than Muslim ones. hardly I can tell the difference. They both reference God as Allah and follow many of the same customs. Many Christians fast for Ramadan. So just treat them all the same. Palestinians are happy and friendly people. They are most like Americans than any other people I know when it comes to disposition in many ways, I am always comfortable around them. They love jokes. They know westerners don&#8217;t know anything  (of their ways) and they are patient but you can&#8217;t cross certain lines as I am telling you. Say a few words in Arabic and they love you for attempting to learn. Palestinians are more &#8220;old fashion&#8221; in many ways as opposed to others in other areas. If they invite you to dinner and you are served a goat&#8217;s head on a platter that is a great honor! Like getting the king treatment.<br />
You may know all or a few or nothing of what I&#8217;ve told you.  But after this post I am under the impression you are over there just like a typical westerner in the Middle East, nothing more. You should try and become one of them. Never try and change what in reality is &#8220;golden.&#8221; Just  cherish it.  Palestinians are so warm as opposed to cold Jews (sorry to say that but in comparison it&#8217;s true) you would grow to love them more than your own people. The children are the best creatures there. Get close to them, walk around the streets with them (they will find you) they will  act as your guides and be your joy in the Middle East.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Emmerich</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-103439</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Emmerich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-103439</guid>
		<description>Philip, I can&#039;t begin to tell you how much I appreciate your evenhandedness here.  Let the other side do the propagandizing.  We liberals (and I mean that in the broadest sense of the term) need to fight for justice with honesty and impartiality.  Doing so will only strengthen our cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip, I can&#8217;t begin to tell you how much I appreciate your evenhandedness here.  Let the other side do the propagandizing.  We liberals (and I mean that in the broadest sense of the term) need to fight for justice with honesty and impartiality.  Doing so will only strengthen our cause.</p>
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		<title>By: KatinPhilly</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-103432</link>
		<dc:creator>KatinPhilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-103432</guid>
		<description>Hi Phil,

I am sure you will get flamed for this one way or another, but a couple of things:

1. Women DO drive in Egypt, even if you didn&#039;t see them. 

2. While Gaza has always been more conservative than other parts of Palestine (the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood had a strong influence there), you wouldn&#039;t have until pretty recently seen such a site as a woman in full niqab even covering her hands with gloves. I know I didn&#039;t when I was there in the late 1980s.  What the Palestinian psychologist said is true. However, Israel also contributed mightily to the rise of socially and politically conservative, fundamentalist forces through its deliberate (and widely known) policies of supporting those forces as a counterweight to secular and leftist parties and movements, particularly in the 1970s. Now it is coming back to bite them in the ass. (Not that those movements didn&#039;t have massive problems, too, that contributed to their own undermining, but that&#039;s another post.)

I always told people many years ago that while you may not like the PLO, Fatah, PFLP, DFLP, etc., you were going to get a much more radical, religious-based movement coming to the fore, so keep ignoring and dismissing the Palestinian leadership (at that time) at your own peril. Those of us closely observing changes in Israeli and Palestinian society for many years saw this coming from a mile away, but nobody would listen. I would say the rise of socially and politically conservative, religious, anti-women&#039;s rights forces in Palestine more or less mirrors what is happening in Israeli politics and society, and that is no coincidence at all.

Of course, it is up to the Palestinians and particularly Palestinian women to determine their own fate and place in society, and not for Westerners to dictate to them (criticize, yes, everyone has that right), especially when we are the ones actively aiding and abetting an occupation that has ruined their lives and undermined their position as much as any awful oppressive Hamas diktat, and in fact feeds into their oppression even more, as Hamas will use this as a cudgel against them, or an excuse to pass  misogynist laws, or condone &quot;honor&quot; killings (nothing honorable about these), because they are &quot;protecting Palestinian culture and Islam&quot; from albeit real enemies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Phil,</p>
<p>I am sure you will get flamed for this one way or another, but a couple of things:</p>
<p>1. Women DO drive in Egypt, even if you didn&#8217;t see them. </p>
<p>2. While Gaza has always been more conservative than other parts of Palestine (the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood had a strong influence there), you wouldn&#8217;t have until pretty recently seen such a site as a woman in full niqab even covering her hands with gloves. I know I didn&#8217;t when I was there in the late 1980s.  What the Palestinian psychologist said is true. However, Israel also contributed mightily to the rise of socially and politically conservative, fundamentalist forces through its deliberate (and widely known) policies of supporting those forces as a counterweight to secular and leftist parties and movements, particularly in the 1970s. Now it is coming back to bite them in the ass. (Not that those movements didn&#8217;t have massive problems, too, that contributed to their own undermining, but that&#8217;s another post.)</p>
<p>I always told people many years ago that while you may not like the PLO, Fatah, PFLP, DFLP, etc., you were going to get a much more radical, religious-based movement coming to the fore, so keep ignoring and dismissing the Palestinian leadership (at that time) at your own peril. Those of us closely observing changes in Israeli and Palestinian society for many years saw this coming from a mile away, but nobody would listen. I would say the rise of socially and politically conservative, religious, anti-women&#8217;s rights forces in Palestine more or less mirrors what is happening in Israeli politics and society, and that is no coincidence at all.</p>
<p>Of course, it is up to the Palestinians and particularly Palestinian women to determine their own fate and place in society, and not for Westerners to dictate to them (criticize, yes, everyone has that right), especially when we are the ones actively aiding and abetting an occupation that has ruined their lives and undermined their position as much as any awful oppressive Hamas diktat, and in fact feeds into their oppression even more, as Hamas will use this as a cudgel against them, or an excuse to pass  misogynist laws, or condone &#8220;honor&#8221; killings (nothing honorable about these), because they are &#8220;protecting Palestinian culture and Islam&#8221; from albeit real enemies.</p>
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		<title>By: khawaga</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/some-reflections-on-womens-roles-in-gaza.html/comment-page-1#comment-103355</link>
		<dc:creator>khawaga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=7866#comment-103355</guid>
		<description>I find a couple of things problematic about this essay--primarily the fact that much of your angst seems to be caused by what makes you uncomfortable as opposed to what women in Egypt and Gaza told you about their own problems or what makes them uncomfortable.

Mainly, though, I would like to point out that if you saw no women driving in Egypt, it is, to put it bluntly, your own damn fault. I&#039;ve lived in Cairo for over a decade and just about every woman I know who has a car (or whose family has a car) drives, and if they don&#039;t, it isn&#039;t because they aren&#039;t allowed to. If you had been stuck in rush hour on the October Bridge and looked around you, you would have seen lots of women driving. They do it every day. And some of them--gasp!--are even veiled.

May seem like a small point, but to me it is indicative of a broader problem with discussions like yours: things that are prevalent or characteristic in one Arab society (say Saudi Arabia, where women cannot drive) are generalized to the entire Arab or even Islamic world, where they are not prevalent at all, and then equally broad conclusions are drawn based on what are essentially falsehoods or unfounded assumptions. And then all of a sudden you&#039;re talking about what &quot;Muslim society&quot; is like or what are the problems with &quot;Islamic society&quot;--as if gender dynamics (or anything else) across a geographic area that stretches from Morocco to Indonesia can be summed up in a couple of paragraphs. 

This seems to me decidedly unhelpful in countering neo-con critiques, since it employs precisely the same rhetoric and sleight-of-hand shifts from the particular to the general that neo-con arguments about Islam and the so-called trouble with it often use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find a couple of things problematic about this essay&#8211;primarily the fact that much of your angst seems to be caused by what makes you uncomfortable as opposed to what women in Egypt and Gaza told you about their own problems or what makes them uncomfortable.</p>
<p>Mainly, though, I would like to point out that if you saw no women driving in Egypt, it is, to put it bluntly, your own damn fault. I&#8217;ve lived in Cairo for over a decade and just about every woman I know who has a car (or whose family has a car) drives, and if they don&#8217;t, it isn&#8217;t because they aren&#8217;t allowed to. If you had been stuck in rush hour on the October Bridge and looked around you, you would have seen lots of women driving. They do it every day. And some of them&#8211;gasp!&#8211;are even veiled.</p>
<p>May seem like a small point, but to me it is indicative of a broader problem with discussions like yours: things that are prevalent or characteristic in one Arab society (say Saudi Arabia, where women cannot drive) are generalized to the entire Arab or even Islamic world, where they are not prevalent at all, and then equally broad conclusions are drawn based on what are essentially falsehoods or unfounded assumptions. And then all of a sudden you&#8217;re talking about what &#8220;Muslim society&#8221; is like or what are the problems with &#8220;Islamic society&#8221;&#8211;as if gender dynamics (or anything else) across a geographic area that stretches from Morocco to Indonesia can be summed up in a couple of paragraphs. </p>
<p>This seems to me decidedly unhelpful in countering neo-con critiques, since it employs precisely the same rhetoric and sleight-of-hand shifts from the particular to the general that neo-con arguments about Islam and the so-called trouble with it often use.</p>
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