Helena Cobban asked in an email yesterday– apropos of the report that Netanyahu has called powerful Jewish aides to Obama "self-hating Jews"–which is worse: to be called an anti-Semite or a self-hating Jew? Which calumny is more effective in preventing criticism of Israel? I say: to be called an anti-Semite. My reasoning:
Self-hater is more recent vintage. Chomsky says late Ambassador Abba Eban started it in 1973, when he called out Chomsky and "I.F. Stone, whose basic complex is one of guilt about Jewish survival. They feel themselves associated with our unpardonable audacity at not having been destroyed or eclipsed or, more accurately, at not having been merged into some homogenized universalist utopia." As that quote shows, and as the charge against David Axelrod and Rahm Emanuel also demonstrates, self-hatred is a ridiculous accusation. Some Jews even enjoy being called self-hating. Hannah Arendt said, when Gershom Scholem accused her of not loving the Jewish people back in 1963, I don't love a people, I love my friends. Max Blumenthal had a smart psychological turn on this recently: Yes I'm self-hating, but being Jewish has nothing to do with it.
In sum, I think Jews can get over the self-hating accusation, with a little liniment and a raw steak applied to the area.
As for anti-Semite, it goes back a lot further and is perceived to be more damaging. You can be sued for wrongly accusing someone of being an anti-Semite. I don't think you can be sued for calling someone a self-hating Jew. The smear of anti-Semitism was obviously deeply hurtful to Walt and Mearsheimer. They have refused to debate anyone who called them anti-Semites (they're both basically philo-Semites, take it from someone who knows them), and for a while, a year or so, it seemed to work; it kept other people from jumping in.
In fact, one reason I do this blog is because a dear friend, a gentile who I talk about Israel/Palestine all the time with, long ago challenged me: You have to write about this; I can't, they'll call me an anti-Semite.
I think the anti-Semite sting is losing its power, through misuse, but it still is more damaging.
Related posts:
- ‘Anti-Semite’ smear is losing its effectiveness in countering appeals to ‘American interest’
- Chomsky Ascribes ‘Self-Hating’ Blackmail to Abba Eban ‘73
- Sullivan unchained: ‘I am deemed an anti-Semite’
- Oh No! I’m a Self-Hating Jew!?! Mom, Tell Me They’re Lying!
- Arabist, anti-semite, Americanist–where is thy sting?
{ 44 comments }
RE: "Which smear has greater effect–self-hating Jew or anti-Semite?" MY COMMENT: I wouldn't mind being a "self-hating Jew" myself. I think they're de rigueur (peachy keen). I'm nominally a Protestant right now, but I am also a member of Tikkun/NSP. Does that qualify as a "self-hating Jew"? If not, how does one convert from Protestant to "self-hating Jew"? Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this.
RE: "Max Blumenthal had a smart psychological turn on this recently: Yes I'm self-hating, but being Jewish has nothing to do with it." (EXCERPT) ….Jewishness and its stereotypes have been a constant theme of Larry David’s HBO series, Curb Your Enthusiasm. When Larry, who embodies all the neuroses, tics and nuttiness of the Jewish middle-aged male, is told: “You know what you are? You’re a self-loathing Jew,” Larry replies, “Hey, I may loathe myself, but it has nothing to do with the fact that I’m Jewish.” Woody Allen said just about the same thing, in Deconstructing Harry. (His screen sister, played by Caroline Aaron, a Jew, says to him, “You’re a self-hating Jew.” He replies, “I may hate myself but not ‘cause I’m Jewish.”) SOURCE – http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/personal_e... h/t – M. J. Rosenberg, TPM Cafe
There is anti-semitism in the world, and there are ways that people are anti-semitic that they hide from themselves. But, you are right that the term is horribly misused to the point that it ceases to have meaning. Kind of like the usage of the term "genocide" to describe Palestinian experience, even as there are elements of similarity.
in psychology there is a term "masochism" and "self defeating personality disorder". This describes people who feel bad about themselves and – for example, do things that hurt their own interests. The term "Self-hating" is an extension of this. A self-hating Jew is someone who does something against the interests of the Jewish people. Listen, Bibi is not perfect, but unlike those democrats in Hamas, he did not push his opposition off a building.
"Self-hating Jew" never had any sting and I doubt ever shut anyone up because it is just so laughable, isn't it? I mean, look, I'm anti-Zionist to the core, but I was a straight A Hebrew school student who went to Israel when I was in high school and speaks Hebrew. It was because of my proud interest in my Jewish identity, through my passionate interest in Israeli history that I learned about the nakba and became an anti-Zionist. Its just absurd. I will go toe-to-toe with any Zionist on their Biblical or even recent 20th century knowledge in a bar debate. Anti-semitism is losing its sting, which is unfortunate, because there is very real anti-semitism in the United States and the world more generally, and I have seen some of it.
Slurs are like assholes, everyone has one …… Call me an anti semite or whatever..water off a duck's back ….if anything I say helps end the zionist horror in Palestine and the racket they carry on in other countries governments.. I agree with the Brit… They have 'chosen' to be hypocritical frigging midget nazis…fuck 'em , there are other people who are actually worthy of being saved that we could do something for…
Are you honestly comparing the exploitation of the Holocaust and the subsequent misuse of the term 'antisemite' (because those 2 things are connected no matter what) to people who label what happened to the Palestinians as 'genocide'? First of all, be more specific. When is this label applied? Mike Levy, a human rights worker who was interviewed by Phil, stated that Israel's policies were 'genocidal' – an attempt to destroy the palestinian people and i agree, Israel constantly interferes in palestinian life. the blockade of gaza is an example. the refusal of a State is another. countless reasons exist. israel simply wants the palestinians to cease to exist and carries this desire out in-action you dishonestly (big surprise!) make it seem that people are just going around vaguely labeling what's happeing in I-P as genocide and then connect that straw man to the constant straw man of the anti-semite misuse
Yes, you are as smart as the average duck.
I've never heard anyone call a Catholic who either leaves the Church or criticizes it a "self-hating Catholic." Americans who oppose U.S. policies might be called "unamerican" by some but never a "self-hating American." And are Christians who convert to Judaism called "self-hating Christians?" Why is it that only Jews who oppose Israel are called "self-hating?" The answer is easy enough. The Zios want to shut up and demean every Jew who tells the truth about this racist little state. I will never be quiet about what Israel does and I sure as hell am not "self-hating." In fact I might hate myself if I kept quiet.
Gilad Atzmon likes to call himself a "proud self-hating Jew."
Bibi is not perfect — spare us the cheap sentiment. If anybody is doing "something against the interests of the Jewish People" it is Netanyahu and his like.
I'm a Jew, but truth be told, I'm really sort of indifferent to myself. I've always been that way. I mean, I might hate myself, if I ever got to know myself that well. As it is, I cut mytself dead in the street every time I see me aproaching.
Anyway, when my new CD of Bacarach-David tunes arranged for Hammond Organ in my unique Gospel-Klezmer fusion style is released, maybe other people will like me better, even if I don't. I mean, what can you do?
RE: "…I'm really sort of indifferent to myself…" YOU POOR THING! Is it possible that you are 'cross-dominant'? I suspect Phil may me. Shhh! Mum's the word.
RE: "Bacarach-David tunes arranged for Hammond Organ in my unique Gospel-Klezmer fusion style" Yes indeed, I rather like the sound of that. Jolly good! Is it possible to place advance orders?
i ponder the paradox: aren't the fascists running the 'state of israel' the real self hating jews? it seems they are the ones on a absurd and self-destructive bender, and hence self-hating.
This is ridiculous. Of course anti-Semitism is the worse charge. Someone facing a charge of disloyalty to their group can simply choose to be indifferent to it (unless they actual enforcement of some sort). It doesn't have any more power than they allow it to. On the other hand, someone facing the charge of cross-cultural bigotry has no way meliorate the blow to their esteem. They're simply bigots until proven otherwise. Bottom line — self-hatred => misplaced priorities; anti-Semitism => bigotry. Uh, which is worse?
So, calling or directly implying someone, say Pat B, Carter, M or W, or McKinney, an antisemite is how similar to calling the long implemented Israeli policy concerning Palestinians genocide? "kind of like" seems to me a weasel word, or as attorneys say a "term of art." There are elaborate definitions of "genocide" that list in what forms it takes place that are authorized by internationally recognized agencies and/or entities. They can be applied to any factual aggregate and can be substantially verified. Or debunked. In comparison, current usage of the term "anti-semite" (or calling someone the latest Hitler) seems to me much less a verifiable categorization and much more a tactic of diversion.
This is a silly post among many real important events. So be it, if you must have those, i'll share this one with you. This from Celebedge.ca, big news. I bet there will be a lot of "self hating Jews after this". Britney Spears converting to Judaism God help us, all we need now is for Tom Hagee to renounce Jesus and chant 'Shema Yisra'el, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Ehad!' oy vey!!!
Compare Phil Weiss with say, Frank Colin or a few notorious others like him who are/were Jewish by birth and joined neo-nazi organizations.
Obama was on TV a few days ago saying the USA would give 3 billion to aid people on every continent all over the world–he was speaking from Africa. His regime recently continued (and supplemented) the 3 billion a year additional to the tiny state of Israel. How's that for poetic proportion? Israel has the 4th rated military in the world, and all its Jewish citizens have good health care, cradle to grave. The USA guarantees its oil supply.
Phil's reasoning is accurate and in accord with yours, Michael Drew. Similarly destructive is being called a racist. Most especially when this allegation is directed against a white male, no matter with high office or low job. In such a case, the burden of guilty until proven otherwise is nearly as high as an allegation of anti-semitism. A public slur alone is very effective. Most Americans have never even heard of someone calling another a "self-hating Jew" in their entire life. Congressional vetting of the next US Supreme Court justice starts on C-SPAN at 10 AM next monday. Probably worth the time if you can spare it to get the lay of the governed land at this time.
Self-hating Jew sounds more like a term of pity, with hope for redemption. I would guess that the term anti-Semite is meant to last forever when applied to non-Jews–even groveling can't remove the stain or suspicion in the eyes of Jews. I don't think either charge means much, and I really don't care if a person is a bigot as long as he minds his own business. Unless a person is being seriously threatened in an obvious way, throwing those accusations around is an aggressive (usually pasive) act of bigotry in itself. I don't have a desire to control the thoughts of other people, and I am puzzled at how people like W&M are rattled by silly charges of anti-Semitism. Have some guts, or stay in the background.
Jews get Madonna, Britney Spears and Campbell Brown, and we get nothing in return. Somehow, I don't feel bad about that. Is Bob Dylan still a Christian? If so, two dumb women who can't sing and a bimbo reporter in return for an overblown old man who never could sing is still a good deal.
have to call the fascists running the 'state of israel' jew hating selves.
after I was branded with the antisemitism label I started doing intense research: exactly what is meant by antisemitism? Most books I found on the topic are written by jews; they follow Kafka's notion that antisemitism is not a problem for jews, it is a problem for the antisemite. If that were true, then it seems it should be up to the antisemite to define the terms of antisemitism, but universally, jews frame the definition of antisemitism. It boils down to, you, antisemite, are an antisemite if we say you are, based on our definition of antisemitism, not yours, but the problem is yours. We jews own the rules, you own the problem. And that's why I'm an antisemite: because jews think they invented god and morality and the ability to save one's soul. When I found out they stole god from the Egyptians and stole morality from the Persians, I was morally outraged. And that makes me an antisemite, too, because jews own the definitions of morality which means only jews have the right to be morally outraged.
Ever the middlemen! Isn't it the same with the media and politics? Divide and conquer, triangulation….. Nah, Jews have no group characteristics!
The threat of being labelled an antisemite has dollar value — hasn't it occurred to anyone that SEC personnel were intimidated from questioning Madoff because he is Jewish, and to accuse a Jewish person of financial misdeeds might be thought to be antisemitic. The system is subtle and effective. Self-hating jew, on the other hand, has no kaching value.
Sorry, media, finance and politics. I guess we should throw culture in there as well.
This is why Mondoweiss is so important . . . the Gentiles have been "secret sharers," unable to speak out against the atrocities in Palestine because of the potency of the anti-Semite slur, and need the leadership of progressive Jewish Americans like Phil and Adam (and J Street, and Antony and Helena and Max and Joseph). In the last few years, the currency of the anti-Semitic accusation has been greatly devalued . . . blame the AIPACsters who slimed respected academics Walt & Mearshimer in such an intellectually dishonest way. Or Abe Foxman's histrionic shrieks of anti-Semite! anti-Semite! anti-Semite! whenever someone criticizes the carnage of Operation Cast Lead. Dershowitz hasn't been helpful to the anti-Semitic brand either, by squelching academic freedom outside of Harvard. Opeartion Cast Lead was the gamechanger. The cheerleaders of this massive assault on innocent women and children were convinced they could control the hasbara this time, and use the label of anti-Semite to silence any goyim from voice criticism of Israel or Zionism. It was a bridge too far this time, and now the canard has lost most of its potency. Good post.
"This is why Mondoweiss is so important . . . the Gentiles have been "secret sharers," unable to speak out against the atrocities in Palestine because of the potency of the anti-Semite slur, and need the leadership of progressive Jewish Americans like Phil and Adam (and J Street, and Antony and Helena and Max and Joseph). " I have to disagree, Oscar. I think Gentiles can noodle this out for ourselves, and Jews need us far more than we need them. Even Phil struggles with his own ethnicity, so I think it is best for Gentiles to distance ourselves from even the "progressive" Jews. In the end, I'm afraid that we'll still only wind up with cynical ethnic politics and spin if we allow Jews to guide us.
What would you consider an appropriate use of the term "anti-semitic"?
Hating someone for who they are (over which they have no control) rather than for what they do (which they can obviously control.)
How do you distinguish in yourself between the two?
There needs to be a clear distinction between Anti-Semitism and False Charges of Anti-Semitism intended to stifle debate by silencing good faith criticism of Israeli policy and the actions and tactics of the Israel Lobby. Professors Walt & Mearsheimer deserve credit and our admiration for publicly stating and defending their article and book about the Israel Lobby, despite clear knowledge that they would take the brunt of a smear campaign. They stood up for the search for truth despite personal cost, and are heroes for it. Anti-Semitism exists, always has, and always will, just as racism exists among other groups, directed at various Others. In my recent experience, the instances of False Charges of Anti-Semitism equal or exceed the instances of true Anti-Semitism, although I tend feel the sting of False Charges, and notice them more. Abe Foxman and Alan Dershowitz, who frequently broadcast False Charges need to be held accountable for trying to stifle debate, and for constantly attempting to hijack serious policy debates by ad hominem attacks and harmful and slanderous namecalling. There needs to be this distinction because current Israeli policies are wrong and destructive to American and Israeli interests, and full and open debate is a natural precondition to good policy decisions within democracies. Unfortunately, the Neocon Clean Break Strategy has formed the basis for US policy in the MidEast throughout the Bush Administration, criticism and dissent from it was stifled for quite some time, and now a positive way forward is all the harder for the history, and for the continued efforts to avoid debate, through namecalling. Non-Jews need to get comfortable with dismissing intended smears as False Charges intended to stifle debate. Jews need to lend aid and comfort to good intentioned non-Jews who care enough to enter the debate and who become the target of these despicable smears.
I don't distinguish it "in myself." I distinguish between honorable and dis-honorable behavior exhibited by the person in front of me. Jews, just like anyone else, exhibit both kinds of behavior. When discussing Israel/Palestine and you object to killing, torture, theft of land, etc. you are objecting to the behavior of people who might happen to be Jewish. That is not anti-semitism. Anti-semitism is when you dislike all Jews with no regard to their actions.
If the motivation for the tone or content is hidden anti-semitism, would that motivate you to want to change your tone or content so that the response is ONLY related to actions? Many anti-black racists site that "x black neighborhood has x crime rate" siting an "action" but really bearing at least partially a racist motivation.
We are also a litigious people…lol One has only to look at how the twisting of accusations are used in an official and semi-official sense. Even governmental organizations can be twisted to stifle debate, hence the battle regarding academic freedom, see – http://www.usccr.gov/campusanti-semitism.html Note the definitive language – "Campus Anti-Semitism reports that many college campuses throughout the United States continue to experience incidents of anti-Semitism, a serious problem warranting further attention. Anti-Israeli or anti-Zionist propaganda has been disseminated on many campuses that include traditional anti-Semitic elements, including age-old anti-Jewish stereotypes and defamation. For example claiming that the Jew are responsible for the killing of Christ or alleging that Zionism is racism." This takes it one step away from a courtroom by defining antisemitism in an official government organization. The next step will be full fledged prosecution like the European arena.
Mike Levy is not only demonstrably moronic, he is far from authoritative. The video plainly displayed his bald ignorance of the issues. Thanks for basing your stupid arguments on the "human rights" worker who didn't so much as ASK about Gilad Shalit. MondoBigots, all.
ESH, you will love it here at MondoLies. This is the home of the rabid antisemites and teh moron self-hating Jews who love them. Welcome! You belong here! Say, do you have a mirror at home? Have a look at it and tell us what a self-hating Jew is…
MondoLies is a wonderful site, which shows very clearly how self-hating Jews DEPEND ON LIES and the support of JEW-HATING BIGOTS to keep afloat. The facts blow all arguments here out of the water. Facts, though, have no effect on bigots. MondoLies demoinstrates this every day.
"Israeli" and "pro-Israeli" have already become FAR more derogatory terms than anti-Semite ever could be.
"The facts blow all arguments here out of the water." Like you would know anything about facts. You have failed to present any facts at all and refuse to provide linke to support your lame brained propaganda. But you are right, facts, have no effect on bigots, which is why every time your lies are debunked, you simply dust yourself off and repeat them on another thread.
"Listen, Bibi is not perfect, but unlike those democrats in Hamas, he did not push his opposition off a building." Yes, and I'm sure Hitler and Stalin were just misunderstood. You're right about Bibbi not pushing his opponents of buildings. He wouldn't get his hands dirty. Much better to get a thug like Lieberman,. who wants to drown buses of Palestinians in the dead sea, to do it.
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