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	<title>Comments on: Goldstone commission sees evidence of &#8216;persecution&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 15:50:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Al Bawwaab / 18 September 2009 &#171; Regurgitation</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-113531</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Bawwaab / 18 September 2009 &#171; Regurgitation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-113531</guid>
		<description>[...] Mondoweiss: &quot;The Goldstone mission saw the same persecution of Palestinians in Gaza as me.&quot; Read the UN mission&#8217;s precis if you can&#8217;t face the full 574-page [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mondoweiss: &quot;The Goldstone mission saw the same persecution of Palestinians in Gaza as me.&quot; Read the UN mission&#8217;s precis if you can&#8217;t face the full 574-page [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-109906</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 07:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-109906</guid>
		<description>ALSO SEE: &quot;Jesus killed Mohammed: The crusade for a Christian military&quot;, By Jeff Sharlet, Harper&#039;s,  May 2009

(EXCERPT)...Early that morning, a unit from the 109th National Guard Infantry dropped off their morning chow. With it came a holiday special–a video of Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ and a chaplain to sing the film’s praises, a gory cinematic sermon for an Easter at war. Humphrey ducked into the chow room to check it out. “It was the part where they’re killing Jesus, which is, I guess, pretty much the whole movie. Kind of turned my stomach.” He decided he’d rather burn trash...
...Not long before, though, there had been a hint of trouble: a briefing in which his squad was warned that any soldier caught desecrating Islamic sites—Samarra is considered a holy city—would fall under “extreme penalty,” a category that can include a general court-martial and prison time. “I heard some guys were vandalizing mosques,” Humphrey says. “Spray-painting ’em with crosses.”...As dusk fell, the men prepared four Bradley Fighting Vehicles for a “run and gun” to draw fire away from the compound. Humphrey headed down from the roof to get a briefing. He found his lieutenant, John D. DeGiulio, with a couple of sergeants. They were snickering like schoolboys. They had commissioned the Special Forces interpreter, an Iraqi from Texas, to paint a legend across their Bradley’s armor, in giant red Arabic script. “What’s it mean?” asked Humphrey. “Jesus killed Mohammed,” one of the men told him. The soldiers guffawed. JESUS KILLED MOHAMMED was about to cruise into the Iraqi night.
The Bradley, a tracked “tank killer” armed with a cannon and missiles–to most eyes, indistinguishable from a tank itself–rolled out. The Iraqi interpreter took to the roof, bullhorn in hand. The sun was setting. Humphrey heard the keen of the call to prayer, then the crackle of the bullhorn with the interpreter answering–in Arabic, then in English for the troops, insulting the prophet. Humphrey’s men loved it. “They were young guys, you know?” says Humphrey . “They were scared.” A Special Forces officer stood next to the interpreter–“a big, tall, blond, grinning type,” says Humphrey. “Jesus kill Mohammed!” chanted the interpreter. “Jesus kill Mohammed!”  A head emerged from a window to answer, somebody fired on the roof, and the Special Forces man directed a response from an MK-19 grenade launcher. “Boom,” remembers Humphrey. The head and the window and the wall around it disappeared. “Jesus kill Mohammed!” Another head, another shot. Boom. “Jesus kill Mohammed!” Boom. In the distance, Humphrey heard the static of AK fire and the thud of RPGs. He saw a rolling rattle of light that looked like a firefight on wheels. “Each time I go into combat I get closer to God,” DeGiulio would later say...

ENTIRE ARTICLE -   http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALSO SEE: &#8220;Jesus killed Mohammed: The crusade for a Christian military&#8221;, By Jeff Sharlet, Harper&#8217;s,  May 2009</p>
<p>(EXCERPT)&#8230;Early that morning, a unit from the 109th National Guard Infantry dropped off their morning chow. With it came a holiday special–a video of Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ and a chaplain to sing the film’s praises, a gory cinematic sermon for an Easter at war. Humphrey ducked into the chow room to check it out. “It was the part where they’re killing Jesus, which is, I guess, pretty much the whole movie. Kind of turned my stomach.” He decided he’d rather burn trash&#8230;<br />
&#8230;Not long before, though, there had been a hint of trouble: a briefing in which his squad was warned that any soldier caught desecrating Islamic sites—Samarra is considered a holy city—would fall under “extreme penalty,” a category that can include a general court-martial and prison time. “I heard some guys were vandalizing mosques,” Humphrey says. “Spray-painting ’em with crosses.”&#8230;As dusk fell, the men prepared four Bradley Fighting Vehicles for a “run and gun” to draw fire away from the compound. Humphrey headed down from the roof to get a briefing. He found his lieutenant, John D. DeGiulio, with a couple of sergeants. They were snickering like schoolboys. They had commissioned the Special Forces interpreter, an Iraqi from Texas, to paint a legend across their Bradley’s armor, in giant red Arabic script. “What’s it mean?” asked Humphrey. “Jesus killed Mohammed,” one of the men told him. The soldiers guffawed. JESUS KILLED MOHAMMED was about to cruise into the Iraqi night.<br />
The Bradley, a tracked “tank killer” armed with a cannon and missiles–to most eyes, indistinguishable from a tank itself–rolled out. The Iraqi interpreter took to the roof, bullhorn in hand. The sun was setting. Humphrey heard the keen of the call to prayer, then the crackle of the bullhorn with the interpreter answering–in Arabic, then in English for the troops, insulting the prophet. Humphrey’s men loved it. “They were young guys, you know?” says Humphrey . “They were scared.” A Special Forces officer stood next to the interpreter–“a big, tall, blond, grinning type,” says Humphrey. “Jesus kill Mohammed!” chanted the interpreter. “Jesus kill Mohammed!”  A head emerged from a window to answer, somebody fired on the roof, and the Special Forces man directed a response from an MK-19 grenade launcher. “Boom,” remembers Humphrey. The head and the window and the wall around it disappeared. “Jesus kill Mohammed!” Another head, another shot. Boom. “Jesus kill Mohammed!” Boom. In the distance, Humphrey heard the static of AK fire and the thud of RPGs. He saw a rolling rattle of light that looked like a firefight on wheels. “Each time I go into combat I get closer to God,” DeGiulio would later say&#8230;</p>
<p>ENTIRE ARTICLE &#8211;   <a href="http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488">link to harpers.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-109904</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-109904</guid>
		<description>ALSO SEE: &quot;The rise of Israel&#039;s military rabbis&quot;, by Katya Adler, BBC Newsnight, 09/07/09

(EXCERPT) Israel&#039;s army is changing. Once proudly secular, its combat units are now filling with those who believe Israel&#039;s wars are &quot;God&#039;s wars&quot;. Military rabbis are becoming more powerful. Trained in warfare as well as religion, new army regulations mean they are now part of a military elite....
...The military rabbis rose to prominence during Israel&#039;s invasion of Gaza earlier this year. Some of their activities raised troubling questions about political-religious influence in the military.  Gal Einav, a non-religious soldier, said there was wall-to-wall religious rhetoric in the base, the barracks and on the battlefield...
....But for the religious soldiers the West Bank is part of land given to the Jews by God. Gal Einav thinks many soldiers will refuse to close settlements down. The settlement issue could well tear the army apart, he told me, adding that most of his officers were settlers these days. &quot;If it comes to a clash between political orders from Israel&#039;s government and a contradictory message from the rabbis, settlers and religious right-wing soldiers will follow the rabbis,&quot; he said....

ENTIRE ARTICLE -   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8232340.stm

P.S. - I recently read that over the last decade or two, fundamentalist Christian U.S. military chaplains (many with only mail-order or online religious degrees) have been replacing the the more traditional chaplains. As a consequence, nearly 90% of all U.S. military chaplains now identify themselves as evangelicals (as  I recall). Get ready for the era of the &#039;Holy Roller Wars&#039;. The &#039;God Squad&#039; might well make the &#039;Inglorious Basterds&#039; look like &#039;Boy Scouts&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALSO SEE: &#8220;The rise of Israel&#8217;s military rabbis&#8221;, by Katya Adler, BBC Newsnight, 09/07/09</p>
<p>(EXCERPT) Israel&#8217;s army is changing. Once proudly secular, its combat units are now filling with those who believe Israel&#8217;s wars are &#8220;God&#8217;s wars&#8221;. Military rabbis are becoming more powerful. Trained in warfare as well as religion, new army regulations mean they are now part of a military elite&#8230;.<br />
&#8230;The military rabbis rose to prominence during Israel&#8217;s invasion of Gaza earlier this year. Some of their activities raised troubling questions about political-religious influence in the military.  Gal Einav, a non-religious soldier, said there was wall-to-wall religious rhetoric in the base, the barracks and on the battlefield&#8230;<br />
&#8230;.But for the religious soldiers the West Bank is part of land given to the Jews by God. Gal Einav thinks many soldiers will refuse to close settlements down. The settlement issue could well tear the army apart, he told me, adding that most of his officers were settlers these days. &#8220;If it comes to a clash between political orders from Israel&#8217;s government and a contradictory message from the rabbis, settlers and religious right-wing soldiers will follow the rabbis,&#8221; he said&#8230;.</p>
<p>ENTIRE ARTICLE &#8211;   <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8232340.stm">link to news.bbc.co.uk</a></p>
<p>P.S. &#8211; I recently read that over the last decade or two, fundamentalist Christian U.S. military chaplains (many with only mail-order or online religious degrees) have been replacing the the more traditional chaplains. As a consequence, nearly 90% of all U.S. military chaplains now identify themselves as evangelicals (as  I recall). Get ready for the era of the &#8216;Holy Roller Wars&#8217;. The &#8216;God Squad&#8217; might well make the &#8216;Inglorious Basterds&#8217; look like &#8216;Boy Scouts&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Something About The Law &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Goldstone and the International Criminal Court</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-109743</link>
		<dc:creator>Something About The Law &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Goldstone and the International Criminal Court</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-109743</guid>
		<description>[...] biased and stated that it overwhelmingly focused on Israel’s actions. Even hamas say so. However, the neutralists say that the report seems to bring out the true picture of the situation in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] biased and stated that it overwhelmingly focused on Israel’s actions. Even hamas say so. However, the neutralists say that the report seems to bring out the true picture of the situation in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tuyzentfloot</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-109499</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuyzentfloot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 10:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-109499</guid>
		<description>Well, as a small followup, the content of the Goldstone report didn&#039;t make the printed version yet in my paper. Instead a big article on Ahmadinejad denying the Holocaust. They&#039;re not mincing words here.  If you&#039;d measure the effectiveness of the communication for this case the results would be good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, as a small followup, the content of the Goldstone report didn&#8217;t make the printed version yet in my paper. Instead a big article on Ahmadinejad denying the Holocaust. They&#8217;re not mincing words here.  If you&#8217;d measure the effectiveness of the communication for this case the results would be good.</p>
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		<title>By: potsherd</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-109492</link>
		<dc:creator>potsherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-109492</guid>
		<description>Hamas is more than a militia.  It is a political party.  It is the political party that happened to win the Palestinian parliamentary elections, overturned by force by Israel in the WB.  It is the legitimate government of Palestine and the effective government of Gaza.  As such, it has great responsibilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hamas is more than a militia.  It is a political party.  It is the political party that happened to win the Palestinian parliamentary elections, overturned by force by Israel in the WB.  It is the legitimate government of Palestine and the effective government of Gaza.  As such, it has great responsibilities.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-109487</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 07:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-109487</guid>
		<description>Donald,
Look further, test your assumption about my attitudes, but not by a litmus test of some multiple choice question of yours.

Test my views actually, from multiple perspectives of logic, not just my own.

You misinterpret the assertion of reform and persuasion, to be equivalent to enabling.

A better approach on your part, if you are sincere about desiring change to decency for Palestinians (objective, not just a successful condemnation), would be to clarify goals (we&#039;re probably similar if not identical).

Then inquire into a discussion of the most effective means to those goals.

In setting goals, the punitive orientation will by definition be lessened, so that is a danger those that are fixated on BDS as chosen means, or suspend their ethical judgement in deferrence to the vanguard of the oppressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donald,<br />
Look further, test your assumption about my attitudes, but not by a litmus test of some multiple choice question of yours.</p>
<p>Test my views actually, from multiple perspectives of logic, not just my own.</p>
<p>You misinterpret the assertion of reform and persuasion, to be equivalent to enabling.</p>
<p>A better approach on your part, if you are sincere about desiring change to decency for Palestinians (objective, not just a successful condemnation), would be to clarify goals (we&#8217;re probably similar if not identical).</p>
<p>Then inquire into a discussion of the most effective means to those goals.</p>
<p>In setting goals, the punitive orientation will by definition be lessened, so that is a danger those that are fixated on BDS as chosen means, or suspend their ethical judgement in deferrence to the vanguard of the oppressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Witty</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-109486</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Witty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 07:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-109486</guid>
		<description>I fault Israel for missing opportunities.

But, it is a state with the responsibilities of a state. Hamas is a militia, with no responsibilities except to agitate.

I prefer the role of state accountability to an electorate, ethically.

There are conditions where a resistance movement can function more ethically than a state, with more and more complete means of accountability to constituents and to international community. I don&#039;t see it from Hamas, except very selectively for propaganda purposes.

And, the left gullibly buys into those propaganda, and doesn&#039;t either do the thinking towards making recommendations/criticisms of Hamas, or has biased objectives (not just errors in tactics).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fault Israel for missing opportunities.</p>
<p>But, it is a state with the responsibilities of a state. Hamas is a militia, with no responsibilities except to agitate.</p>
<p>I prefer the role of state accountability to an electorate, ethically.</p>
<p>There are conditions where a resistance movement can function more ethically than a state, with more and more complete means of accountability to constituents and to international community. I don&#8217;t see it from Hamas, except very selectively for propaganda purposes.</p>
<p>And, the left gullibly buys into those propaganda, and doesn&#8217;t either do the thinking towards making recommendations/criticisms of Hamas, or has biased objectives (not just errors in tactics).</p>
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		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-109471</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-109471</guid>
		<description>VIDEO (Part 1) – 7:37 minutes
VIDEO (Part 2) - 4:37 minutes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VIDEO (Part 1) – 7:37 minutes<br />
VIDEO (Part 2) &#8211; 4:37 minutes</p>
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		<title>By: DICKERSON3870</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/goldstone-commission-sees-evidence-of-persecution.html/comment-page-1#comment-109470</link>
		<dc:creator>DICKERSON3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=9213#comment-109470</guid>
		<description>RE: &quot; When I was in Gaza, the persecution struck me as biblical, something that you read about in one of the horrifying stories of the Old Testament.&quot; - Phil

SEE: &quot;BBC Newsnight: The Rise of Israel&#039;s Military Rabbis&quot; 
VIDEO (Part 1)  -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oiZ8I35Mtg
VIDEO (Part 2) -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXu71uVGwI8</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: &#8221; When I was in Gaza, the persecution struck me as biblical, something that you read about in one of the horrifying stories of the Old Testament.&#8221; &#8211; Phil</p>
<p>SEE: &#8220;BBC Newsnight: The Rise of Israel&#8217;s Military Rabbis&#8221;<br />
VIDEO (Part 1)  &#8211;  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oiZ8I35Mtg">link to youtube.com</a><br />
VIDEO (Part 2) &#8211;  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXu71uVGwI8">link to youtube.com</a></p>
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