American Jewish Committee poll says that 51 percent of American Jews are against a settlement freeze. Against. A settlement. Freeze. Not even dismantling settlements– what would the numbers be on that! But a freeze. Only 41 percent for it. This is in the end the soul of the Israel lobby: American Jewish opinion and American Jews’ belief in their role as the guardians of the Jewish state.
Oh and check these numbers out: 59 percent approve of Netanyahu compared to just 54 percent who approve of Obama on the Middle East. Oh my.
h/t Jack Ross
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Obama’s influence is so effective!
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=228636
Report: Israel set to approve massive new settlement near Bethlehem
Published yesterday (updated) 30/09/2009 15:50
Bethlehem – Ma’an – Israel’s Ministry of the Interior is expected to approve could become the most populous single settlement in the occupied Palestinian territories since 1967, an Israeli newspaper reported on Wendesday.
The Hebrew-language daily Ma’ariv stated that the project, prepared by both the Ministry of the Interior and the Jerusalem Municipality, calls for the construction of 14,000 housing units for 40,000 Jewish Israelis on 3,000 dunums (three square kilometers) of land near the West Bank city of Bethlehem.
The land in question is owned by Palestinians in the West Bank village of Al-Walaja, sandwiched between the settlement of Gilo and the Gush Etzion settlement bloc.
The newspaper added that the project is supported by senior political leaders in the ruling Likud party and far right parties, who want to expand and consolidate the ring of settlements around Jerusalem.
Maariv notes that the project “faces two obstacles, firstly the large number of the Palestinian homes in the village of Al-Walaja which were built without licenses under Israeli law and will be demolished.
And Obama will act to prevent this – not.
Obama’s too busy think up a way to sell the invasion of Iraq — whoops, I meant Iran.
As Hillary Clinton might say, this is unhelpful to the peace process.
Who did the polling? What were the questions asked that led to those conclusions?
Another telling statistic was the 74% believed that the Arab communities sought to remove Israel from the map, rather than to achieve 67 borders.
Who didn’t do their job? The pollsters, the left?
The answers to the specific questions were interesting, only slightly suprising.
“Who did the polling? What were the questions asked that led to those conclusions?”
And while you’re at it, show Witty photos of these so-called gas chambers being used. He’s not convinced.
I am skeptical. The sponsors of the poll are on the pro-colonization fringe. They have a vested interest in attempting to marginalize other views. It is well known that poll questions are usually formulated to bias estimates towards the pollster’s desired results. However, simple dishonesty could also be contributing to apparent inconsistencies between answers. Coming up with a believable estimate of Jewish support for Pres. Obama consistent with previous polls, establishes credibility for unexpectedly high estimates of lack of support for a freeze in colonization.
Colonial Zionists are willing to betray America to send our tax dollars overseas to finance ethnic cleansing and colonization. It is preposterous to think that they wouldn’t merely fudge a few poll results when the stake is, as they see it, the survival of the colonization campaign that is a front and center fixture of their world view.
I am not saying that I believe this to be the case, rather I am saying that it is a possibility. I think this because, in a variant of putting myself in another man’s shoes, it is exactly what I would do if I were in their place. One does what one thinks one can get away with, and the track record of the Israeli Lobby for audacity is well established. This struggle is about hearts and minds of Jewish Americans, and the colonials have suffered their first defeats, albeit minor, in decades. If the glove were not off before, they certainly are now.
American Jewish Committee poll says that 51 percent of American Jews are against a settlement freeze.
A majority? Thats truly sad.
If the question were posed as “if you were confident that a permanent settlement freeze would result in normalization with all Arab states, including Palestine and Muslim states such as Iran, would you support a permanent 100% settlement freeze”, I would expect the yes votes to be in 80% range.
You can’t separate the impression that 75% believe that the Arab world seeks the elimination of Israel, more than they seek sovereignty over the West Bank and Gaza.
Because, what? Because Arab governments haven’t promised that? Like, say, in a peace initiative that might have been drafted in 2002.
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm
Whoops! Oh, there I go again with those pesky “opinions.”
Its not a pesky question, but an irrelevant one.
The non-compromising on both sides (enforcing that by terror and other violence) prohibit reasonable reconciliation.
Do you think it is accurate that the majority of the Arab world, of Israel’s neighbors, seeks for Israel to not exist?
Its not true per other polls, which indicate overwhelming support of a two-state solution among Palestinians and Arabs over a single-state for example. More overwhelming than this poll.
“Including Palestine”
Tell us more about this state of Palestine which treats with the Israelis?
And even if Israel gives something to the Palestinians, when Israel went in for atom bombs the problem Israel created for itself moved into an entirely different orbit.
But I love that imaginery Palestinian state, and the way you sneak it in, that’s pure Witty.
Here is what I think of polls, people should consider this whether it supports their particular views or not. You need to consider the origin of polls as tools of PR firms that rose from the mire of propaganda, with all due respect to the poster I am not saying this is the aim or use of every poll – but that they should be carefully examined.
There are few methodologies that get used with such cynicism as polling. The majority of the population, particularly in the United States has no idea how and why polls are used by those who think they “know whats best for us,” or should I say for themselves.
Polling was introduced by the PR industry as a tool for the control of the people, it is a “science” for measuring the direction or intent, the will of the people. What many do not understand is that he (or those) that controls the environment, what people see and hear, control the will of the people.
I am going to tell you EXACTLY what the purpose of polls are in the United States – in the sense of how the dominant media uses them. Granted, there are polls which are what you might call contrary polls, in the sense that they ask full questions, to a major and fair portion of the population, for the purpose of enlightening the people – but they are few. I am not saying if polls are good or not, I am just asking what are polls good for?
Always before a major poll is launched by the corporate media, there is a major campaign of concentrated propaganda repeatedly voiced through the major (major in the sense of the monopoly) media sources – national, such as NBC CBS CNN FOX, etc. Why? Because they wish to set a precedent of opinion, that is they try to garner authority through the majority, which has been influenced by the said propaganda blitz. This is layered, and can go on for a long period of time, to make sure that the right message is embedded in the psyche of the population.
Only after the above is done, is there a poll taken, and that with specific questions related to the media propaganda. Essentially what the polls do is verify “how effective” the propaganda blitz has been. So, when a decision is taken by the powers that be, whatever the subject, they look legitimate – as if they are just following the major “view of the people.” THAT is the major use of the poll in the weapon arsenal of the PR firms, and their cognate media sources. Mind you, this is an exact science, that has been perfected to manufacture the consent of the people (to use a phrase coined by Noam Chomsky).
So, whenever you look at polls, as used by the so-called “major sources” it is good that you keep the above scenario in mind. What polls are for the most part, is the way to measure how effective the propaganda blitz has been. Plain and simple, they are a synthetic methodology, used in a cynical fashion, by a ruling elite. The question they ask themselves is “have we been effective in this quest to move the will of the people?” (lets take a poll and see).
This way they see if they can make their move, whatever that is, feeling they have influenced the people enough, or, whether they should go back to the drawing board, make some major or minor adjustments, or take a different course. The IMPRESSION that you are left with (not knowing what I told you above), “gee Marge, they really want to know what we think, isn’t it grand to live in a democracy, they really care!” Or, an equally fallacious conclusion from the deception – “look Marge! Sixty five percent of the people agree with us, we are in the majority!”
You must also realize that society itself is set in motion with it’s “challenges” to stack the deck, so to speak, to limit your sources – resources. The United States is set in motion with a break neck speed, to busy you to such a degree that you become exhausted.
What they count on is the fact that you will be so exhausted, trying to keep a roof over your head, put food on the table – the general nasty rat race, so that when you finally get home the only thing you will do is avail yourself of a “major” form of media like the corporate news. Hence, they have you by the balls, so to speak, and you fall into their environment from not only the necessary work schedule, but the forms of media that are so easy to use. There they are for you, after a hard days work, all you need to do is relax, press the remote, sit back and be inundated with their non-stop pounding propaganda drivel.
The problem is that when polls are being taken, the damage is already done, the PR blitz has already calcified opinions. The deception of legitimacy permeates the “major corporate media.” It is “news you can trust,” and “fair and balanced,” etc. So, remember these facts the next time you look and rely upon polls, the deck is stacked and the game is rigged. Polls are used in conjunction with big money, they are attached at the hip with popular media which is merely the driving force for the powers that be which rely on these PR giants.
MANUFACTURING CONSENT
nice little youtube, v…
v, thanks for your take.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1118001.html
Netanyahu nixes call for Israeli inquiry into Gaza war
Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail, and Israel will use the report to investigate, and either objectively clear its name, or identify and institute reforms.
Netanyahu somehow thinks that dismissing criticism is more important than effectiveness. Who would hire him to run a company?
Funny, you were the one was tripping over himself in his trust that Israel would hold itself to high accountability standards. How do you feel about that now?
And to answer your question? The Israeli populace, apparently.
I’m glad Netanyahu did this–any investigation they would have done would have been a whitewash anyway. Not that Israel is different from other countries in similar circumstances–you don’t expect countries that commit war crimes (a category which includes democracies) to investigate themselves seriously. Even the Kahan (sp?) commission was a whitewash, according to Chomsky, and that went further than most countries do (and a lot further than Israel would go now).
This is an interesting link, though slightly outdated now–
magnes zionist
Again, Chaos, you don’t know liberals.
We live with angst. We are highly critical of Netanyahu’s expansion, but also highly critical of Hamas’ terror.
Really? You’re highly critical of Netanyahu’s expansion? You’re highly critical of Israeli’s deliberate targeting and destruction not only of Palestinian civilian targets but of international targets like the UNWRA main warehouse and the American International School?
Seriously, you’re either a PEP (at best) or a Blue Dog. I’m pretty disgusted by the fact that you think you can slap a “liberal” label on yourself and then spot any sort of nonsense and then say, “And I’m a liberal, so that’s what liberals think!”
Liberal isn’t about labels, Witty. It’s about a genuine commitment to the rule of law, the value of social justice, and most of all, the truth.
“51 percent of American Jews are against a settlement freeze”
If the polling is accurate, it is evidence that the majority of American Jews are bigots.
Actually, to conclude bigotry on the basis of a poll’s wording is itself an example of bigotry.
There are many ways that I could conceive that a reasonable individual would answer yes to that. IF, for example, settlement expansion did not displace another. Or, IF, settlement cessation resulted in persecution of Jews, or IF, settlement cessation resulted in prohibition from Jews visiting holy sites.
I personally would have answered in opposition to settlement expansion in any case, as it is such a critical factor in any possibility of peace, which I believe is possible.
Though I share in the skepticism about polls that others have expressed above, I am not at all surprised by the idea that roughly half of American Jews oppose a freeze on settlements. Without addressing the question of bigotry, I do believe this result supports an inference that at least half of American Jews are hard-core political Zionists. The kind who buy into the notion of Greater Israel without borders.
In a nutshell, that’s why we don’t have peace in the Middle East.
“The kind who buy into the notion of Greater Israel without borders.”
Again, ther “notion” is all they buy into. The actuality of it, they want nothing to do with. If you wanted to make a movie in which Israel triumphs and rules the Middle East, they will go to see it.
As far as them doing anything except indulging in some racism towrds Arabs, no I don’t think so.
And once these Jews have an idea of what is actually entailed in a project like Israel, and what the consequences to them might be, they indubitably end up wanting to moderate Israel behavior.
Do they plan to go over there and fight for a greater Israel? I doubt it. And the rest is just noise. Jews are no worse than anybody else in that respect, although you would think they would know better.
So dual loyalty is more widespread than a few neocon ideologues?
“This is in the end the soul of the Israel lobby: American Jewish opinion and American Jews’ belief in their role as the guardians of the Jewish state.”
Damn!! The Anti-semites are out again. Put them back in their cages so that they stop making blanket opinions about Jews!! Don’t you know that Jews are a diverse group whose long history has formented a spectrum-like smattering of opinions on every topic. Who made the abovementioned anti-semitic statement. Oh!! It was Phil Weiss. I guess that doesn’t count, because he’s part of the “original community”.
Laugh out loud!!
FPM
“Don’t you know that Jews are a diverse group”
Yup, that’s why this blog is here, and that’s why Phil has come to different conclusions about Israel than many other Jews.
As those American Jews who do not agree with Israels policies and choices, get a voice, and a way to act, just stand back and watch what happens.
It was only a few years ago that, I would think, certain Jewish leaders in Europe said that Jews wanted to live in ghettoes, with only other Jews, and subject to Jewish authourity, and that the system worked for everybody. But as soon as it became possible to live not in ghettoes, or go to America, off they went, and probably swearing they would never leave til the day they did.
Sorry Frankie, I didn’t realise you commented before you actually figured out what Phil said.
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