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	<title>Comments on: Arguing about BDS with Jack Ross</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 16:09:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Chaos4700</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115841</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaos4700</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115841</guid>
		<description>If Witty is sincere, then the only conclusion that still makes sense is that he is clinically insane. He does seem to have this crazy delusion that he is &lt;i&gt;actually&lt;/i&gt; a liberal just because he can quote Ralph Nader. It&#039;s like watching some poor fellow strut around with his hand pushed between his shirt buttons, believing he&#039;s Napoleon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Witty is sincere, then the only conclusion that still makes sense is that he is clinically insane. He does seem to have this crazy delusion that he is <i>actually</i> a liberal just because he can quote Ralph Nader. It&#8217;s like watching some poor fellow strut around with his hand pushed between his shirt buttons, believing he&#8217;s Napoleon.</p>
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		<title>By: Chaos4700</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115840</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaos4700</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115840</guid>
		<description>We don&#039;t need faux liberals like you, Witty. You can content yourself with trying to surround yourself with the trappings of liberalism -- making an ugly caricature as you do -- while the rest of us on the &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; left do all the actual hard work of campaigning, protesting, organizing, etc. You just sit right back and keep sipping that latte.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t need faux liberals like you, Witty. You can content yourself with trying to surround yourself with the trappings of liberalism &#8212; making an ugly caricature as you do &#8212; while the rest of us on the <i>real</i> left do all the actual hard work of campaigning, protesting, organizing, etc. You just sit right back and keep sipping that latte.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115833</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 12:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115833</guid>
		<description>Witty - you have zero credibility. You are a shameless apologist for war crimes and a polite fascist.

It&#039;s amusing to see you insult Jeffrey Blankfort whenever he posts here as if *you* have any kind of weight in the exchange. You don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Witty &#8211; you have zero credibility. You are a shameless apologist for war crimes and a polite fascist.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s amusing to see you insult Jeffrey Blankfort whenever he posts here as if *you* have any kind of weight in the exchange. You don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115826</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115826</guid>
		<description>Jack Ross, mystifies me too occasionally. Mainly concerning political views, which feel peculiarly twisted sometimes. Occasionally a deep prejudice or disgust seems to surface, often only hinted at, so it&#039;s really hard to grasp. Once there seemed a deep dislike of Europe. Mind you, I could understand a dislike of Germany, but Europe as a whole? ... Reminds me of the neocons.

Waskow uses &quot;even&quot; quite a lot, but here it sticks out. An accident?:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In its rhetorical breadth and depth, Obama&#039;s Cairo speech was an extraordinary opening to the Muslim world — making clear that the new U.S. government understands the Arab and Muslim view of the world and takes seriously&lt;b&gt; even&lt;/b&gt; Arab and Muslim critiques of U.S. behavior and policy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack Ross, mystifies me too occasionally. Mainly concerning political views, which feel peculiarly twisted sometimes. Occasionally a deep prejudice or disgust seems to surface, often only hinted at, so it&#8217;s really hard to grasp. Once there seemed a deep dislike of Europe. Mind you, I could understand a dislike of Germany, but Europe as a whole? &#8230; Reminds me of the neocons.</p>
<p>Waskow uses &#8220;even&#8221; quite a lot, but here it sticks out. An accident?:</p>
<blockquote><p>In its rhetorical breadth and depth, Obama&#8217;s Cairo speech was an extraordinary opening to the Muslim world — making clear that the new U.S. government understands the Arab and Muslim view of the world and takes seriously<b> even</b> Arab and Muslim critiques of U.S. behavior and policy.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: former coMMenter</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115818</link>
		<dc:creator>former coMMenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 06:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115818</guid>
		<description>Say, Donald, that&#039;s wonderful. And how are the left&#039;s kids doing? Have they already gone on their birthright trip to the Kremlin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Say, Donald, that&#8217;s wonderful. And how are the left&#8217;s kids doing? Have they already gone on their birthright trip to the Kremlin?</p>
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		<title>By: former coMMenter</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115817</link>
		<dc:creator>former coMMenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 05:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115817</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Next question?&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, it&#039;s for Witty.

Witty,
Have you been to &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dimona&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Next question?</i></p>
<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s for Witty.</p>
<p>Witty,<br />
Have you been to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction" rel="nofollow">Dimona</a>?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Blankfort</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115816</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Blankfort</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 05:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115816</guid>
		<description>The US Left, such as it is, is barely involved in the BDS movement, preferring to repeat useless slogans, such as &quot;End the Occupation!,&quot; as I have said before, as if the problem was Israeli occupation and not land expropriation and ethnic cleansing.  Its leaders are as much exchanged with protecting the Israel Lobby as is the latte ritself, as the most recent book  by ANSWER&#039;s  Dick Becker attests to.  There is not,  in fact, a single Left group in the US that does not channel Chomsky in ascribing all of Israel&#039;s crimes to it being done in the service of that convenient, but very real--execept in this instance-- bogeyman, US imperialism.

If one goes back to the days of Truman, Eisenhower,and JFK, the documentation is farely ample that those in charge of  US foreign saw Israel not as an asset but a strategic liability, and our State Dept. reps were very public in saying so.  But Chomsky and the myopic Left have done as good a job of burying that history as has the Zionist establishment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The US Left, such as it is, is barely involved in the BDS movement, preferring to repeat useless slogans, such as &#8220;End the Occupation!,&#8221; as I have said before, as if the problem was Israeli occupation and not land expropriation and ethnic cleansing.  Its leaders are as much exchanged with protecting the Israel Lobby as is the latte ritself, as the most recent book  by ANSWER&#8217;s  Dick Becker attests to.  There is not,  in fact, a single Left group in the US that does not channel Chomsky in ascribing all of Israel&#8217;s crimes to it being done in the service of that convenient, but very real&#8211;execept in this instance&#8211; bogeyman, US imperialism.</p>
<p>If one goes back to the days of Truman, Eisenhower,and JFK, the documentation is farely ample that those in charge of  US foreign saw Israel not as an asset but a strategic liability, and our State Dept. reps were very public in saying so.  But Chomsky and the myopic Left have done as good a job of burying that history as has the Zionist establishment.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Blankfort</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115814</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Blankfort</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 05:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115814</guid>
		<description>Richard Witty asks if I have been to Gaza.  I was there in 2004 and had a chance to see the damage that Israeli gunners had done to Palestinian villages and homes which took place during my visit.  Classic Israeli examples of Israeli sadism were visible everywhere, peaceful businesses destroyed and houses where the Israelis that their wehrmacht expropriated in order to control neighborhoods, confining the residents to their basements and either destroying the homes when they left or rendering them unliveable.  I also went down to the b order at Rafah where the Israelis were firing into the town a few hundred yards from me simply to harass the people because they hadn&#039;t been fired upon.

I have also spent time in the West Bank as well as in Lebanon under Israeli occupation in 1983 where the Israeli military earned the hatred of the Lebanese Shia by treating them with the same contempt that they had shown the Palestinians. It was that contempt that gave rise to Hezbollah, contrary to the myth that it was created by Iran as its proxy.

Next question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Witty asks if I have been to Gaza.  I was there in 2004 and had a chance to see the damage that Israeli gunners had done to Palestinian villages and homes which took place during my visit.  Classic Israeli examples of Israeli sadism were visible everywhere, peaceful businesses destroyed and houses where the Israelis that their wehrmacht expropriated in order to control neighborhoods, confining the residents to their basements and either destroying the homes when they left or rendering them unliveable.  I also went down to the b order at Rafah where the Israelis were firing into the town a few hundred yards from me simply to harass the people because they hadn&#8217;t been fired upon.</p>
<p>I have also spent time in the West Bank as well as in Lebanon under Israeli occupation in 1983 where the Israeli military earned the hatred of the Lebanese Shia by treating them with the same contempt that they had shown the Palestinians. It was that contempt that gave rise to Hezbollah, contrary to the myth that it was created by Iran as its proxy.</p>
<p>Next question?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Kelly</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115667</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 02:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115667</guid>
		<description>Ross mystifies me too, Jeffrey. I frankly don&#039;t know what the hell he&#039;s getting at most of the time, and I can&#039;t help but think it&#039;s intentional obfuscation. 

&lt;b&gt;It is the ONLY position for a committed humanist to take and, as such, it has many adherents around the world who do not identify with either the left or the right and who are not engaged, as is Jack, with the infantile preoccupation of determining whether a certain political stand is leftist or rightist .&lt;/b&gt;

Thank you for your straightforward writing. In a world of moral bankruptcy, it is a breath of fresh air.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ross mystifies me too, Jeffrey. I frankly don&#8217;t know what the hell he&#8217;s getting at most of the time, and I can&#8217;t help but think it&#8217;s intentional obfuscation. </p>
<p><b>It is the ONLY position for a committed humanist to take and, as such, it has many adherents around the world who do not identify with either the left or the right and who are not engaged, as is Jack, with the infantile preoccupation of determining whether a certain political stand is leftist or rightist .</b></p>
<p>Thank you for your straightforward writing. In a world of moral bankruptcy, it is a breath of fresh air.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/10/arguing-about-bds-with-jack-ross.html/comment-page-1#comment-115664</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 02:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10010#comment-115664</guid>
		<description>&quot;My personal impression is that the left is very vain &quot;

I asked &quot;the left&quot; about this the other day, and his impression is that you&#039;re very vain, Richard.   Always worried more about how a criticism hurts your feelings or the feelings of some Israelis rather than whether the criticism is true, and if so, how to convey the truth of the criticism to people unwilling to listen.    He told me, &quot;If only Richard would set aside his own vanity, his own unwillingness to accept that his precious ideology has been responsible for the suffering of millions of innocents and figure out how to reach people who are so consumed with self-righteousness they can&#039;t accept the documented findings of several human rights organizations.   For that matter, if only Richard himself would do the same, and employ the same standards to Israel&#039;s actions that he applies to little old me.  I haven&#039;t ruined anyone&#039;s economy with a draconian blockade.  Richard thinks that&#039;s justifiable when it is done by Israel to a group of 1.5 million Palestinians.&quot;   He sighed and then we talked about other things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My personal impression is that the left is very vain &#8221;</p>
<p>I asked &#8220;the left&#8221; about this the other day, and his impression is that you&#8217;re very vain, Richard.   Always worried more about how a criticism hurts your feelings or the feelings of some Israelis rather than whether the criticism is true, and if so, how to convey the truth of the criticism to people unwilling to listen.    He told me, &#8220;If only Richard would set aside his own vanity, his own unwillingness to accept that his precious ideology has been responsible for the suffering of millions of innocents and figure out how to reach people who are so consumed with self-righteousness they can&#8217;t accept the documented findings of several human rights organizations.   For that matter, if only Richard himself would do the same, and employ the same standards to Israel&#8217;s actions that he applies to little old me.  I haven&#8217;t ruined anyone&#8217;s economy with a draconian blockade.  Richard thinks that&#8217;s justifiable when it is done by Israel to a group of 1.5 million Palestinians.&#8221;   He sighed and then we talked about other things.</p>
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