God bless the Jewish Week, it has a fabulous interview with Wallace Shawn defending his support for the Toronto Declaration and talking Jewish identity. I’d say the most interesting aspect of the Jewish identity stuff is how straightforward Shawn is about his falling away from Jewishness, how sad he seems to feel about it. And the shadow of his father’s denial of Jewishness. I don’t know that this should be a source of guilt, but it seems to be among us universalists. Yes, something has been lost. But there was great sociological gain, too: William Shawn was one of the most powerful editors in the country and led the charge against the Vietnam War. (Franz Kafka writing to his father about cutting the cord: [To] the religious material that was handed on to me.. may be added at most the outstretched hand pointing to "the sons of the millionaire Fuchs," who attended the synagogue with their father on the High Holy Days. How one could do anything better with that material than get rid of it as fast as possible, I could not understand; precisely the getting rid of it seemed to me to be the devoutest action.) Shawn, interviewed by Eric Herschthal:
How did you get involved in the Toronto Film Festival petition?
Someone alerted me to it. I hate petitions; I prefer to write what I think for myself. But I believe that we all have to be politically active. If you’re politically active, you’re going to have to occasionally march in the streets and sign petitions. … And yes, I do think that the Toronto festival must have been somehow lured into becoming dupes, really, of a campaign on the part of a public relations company that is trying to change the image of Israel. …
In my view, there are terrific Israeli artists and they should be invited to show their work. But celebrating Tel Aviv is a trap they should have been clever enough to stay out of.
You grew up in New York, and your father, William Shawn, was the New Yorker editor for 35 years. How Jewish was your upbringing?
The answer is disappointingly short. I’m not proud of it, but I’m not ashamed of it, either. Both my parents grew up in Chicago, and my mother’s mother was pretty religious. But my mother’s father died when he was young. My guess is that they weren’t very religious but they went to temple and probably weren’t very knowledgeable about Jewish traditions. … My parents were atheists and had no real interest in their religion, and I grew up with no real interest in it either – the cord was cut.
But you do identify as Jewish, even playing a Jewish character, Cyrus Rose, in the current season of "Gossip Girl." The identification must come from somewhere.
Well, yes. My father realized that his personal character grew out of his religious background. He would tell me that when he had lunch with Isaac Bashevis Singer he felt like a relative. But people didn’t really know my father was Jewish. … I know very well that my characteristics come from my Jewish background, but in a certain sense the cord has already been cut. If I started studying Jewish traditions, I would be starting from scratch, and so I could just as well start studying African traditions. … I don’t boast of my ignorance. But if I have a love of justice, I didn’t make that up. I feel that comes from my parents and they got that from their parents and that came from the Jewish tradition
“But if I have a love of justice, I didn’t make that up. I feel that comes from my parents and they got that from their parents and that came from the Jewish tradition.”
If so, then it’s an aspect of Jewish tradition that has been forgotten by many in Israel and their defenders elsewhere.
“If so, then it’s an aspect of Jewish tradition that has been forgotten by many in Israel and their defenders elsewhere.”
Craig, to you I send a big No.4 ! (The Whole World Sucks!, so much for justice!)
Gosh, I should have been a hasbarist instead of just a nice piece halavah. What the heck, it beats “human dust”. (I should never have taught my wife that expression.)
Are there any traditions that do not claim to love justice? Isn’t the interesting part what the different ideas of justice are? And how justice is prioritized relative to other goals, like survivalism?
Anyway, my Jewish identity is very simple! It’s a combination of Bullwinkle, H*Y*M*A*N K*P*L*A*N, and Joey Defrancesco. No, I can’t play nearly that well, so I guess I stuck here in the vest, not knowing my own strength.
Shawn is perhaps best known for being a very entertaining and quirky character actor, but he is a very thoughtful and creative man. I recently saw a movie he wrote called The Fever, which was mostly a monolgue delivered by Vanessa Redgrave about the underside of global connections that we who are comfortable would rather not see. It was a very difficult movie to watch, but full of brilliant but unsettling observations. It is hardly surprising that he took a knowledgeable and courageous position on Toronto.
I’ve heard he is a very creative man, but I always think of him as Vizzini in The Princess Bride. “Inconceivable!”
I can’t get over the tremendous amount of entitlement Phil seems to associate with being Jewish. That is a sure sign he will never completely abandon Zionism.
Can you elaborate on that, Mooser?
Yeah, I think I can, if not very well. It’s just that in one post, Phil tells us how little he knows about Jewish ritual and prayer, and how unwilling he is to spend time at it (I am not, God Forbid, implying that I do) . But at the same time, he is sure that ramifications of the Jewish image in America accrue to him, (and they have been for the most part positive for him personally). Anotherwords, I sense that while he feels that he can, if he so wishes, reject or push away Judaism to whatever extent suits him (God Forbid I’m saying we should give that right up. I love it myself) he is sure, much more sure than I am, that Judaism will not do the same to him.
And of course, he’s right, thank God
But still, that’s a big helping of entitlement. But let me make one thing perfectly clear: Yes, it is in many ways a big sense of entitlement, but I think he is determined to use it, to the best of his ability, to do good, and not just “good for the Jews”
And I also would think he is not willing to let the price of the entitlement compromise him in significant ways.
You’re easier to follow when you’re doing shtick, Mooser. Somewhere in there did you explain the part about “never completely abandoning Zionism”?
Moose never elaborates, Todd. It throws off the timing of his shtick.
He can’t elaborate until he comes back and reads the request. Then he gives it a try.
Re: “But if I have a love of justice, I didn’t make that up. I feel that comes from my parents and they got that from their parents and that came from the Jewish tradition.”
I also got that sense of justice from my parents’ Christian tradition. It’t there for anyone to see (deed is not the same as creed, for all religions). OTH, my sense of justice was always with me, as I think it has been with every huamn being since time immemorial. I never met anyone without a sense of injusticek either personally or vicariously–even
Charlie Manson. There’s the rub.
The key point modern point about the Jesus story is when he turned over the money exchange tables in the temple. This narrative never goes away, even if it is a fable. And it has nothing to do with ethnic rivalry, quite obviously.
Pardon all my typos, I was in a hurry.
“I also got that sense of justice from my parents’ Christian tradition. It’t there for anyone to see (deed is not the same as creed, for all religions). OTH, my sense of justice was always with me, as I think it has been with every human being since time immemorial.”
Why object to typos when those two statements are completely contradictory?
Now, pick one of two: Do we get our sense of justice from the knowledge of God and Jesus Christ and their plan for us and the earth as written inerrantly in the Bible, or
Is our sense of justice in some way “inborn” and present in all individuals, even those unshriven and unannealed?
Cause if I remember my Sunday School lessons (when we got married, my wife said that “looks like a conversion will be the next event around here, so naturally…) I was told in no uncertain terms that man’s nature (since the fall) was base and all of us had, not an inborn sense of justice, but “original sin”, until we got to know the Lord and got waterbaptized.
I really don’t see how those two ideas can be congruent, do you? But I get the general idea, Citizen. Christians have a wonderful and integrated and wholistic teology which combined with the inherent love of justice and all good things, making them both the measure and measurers of what is good. Jews, well, not so much.
” I never met anyone without a sense of injusticek either personally or vicariously–even Charlie Manson.”
Citizen
You met Charlie Manson! Holy crap, that must have been something. Okay, I had a minor brush with one of the peripheral characters in the Manson saga, but you actually met Manson, and could evluate his sense of justice?
Oh well, what can I say, I know my life has been pretty dull. You really must tell us about Charlie and his sense of justice. I got some idea of what he was like in Bugliosi’s book, but I’m sure your’s would be a much more sympathetic portrait.
What’s with the “God Bless” stuff? It makes me puke. Considering the fact that the horror stemming from belief in sky gods is the very reason for your website’s existence, the least you can do is to not invoke his sorry ass when you want to praise something.