Comments on: From his ’69 awakening to the ‘wild-animal’ state and lobby– Hilton Obenzinger on Israel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:02:11 +0000 hourly 1 By: Citizen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127575 Citizen Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:00:55 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127575 If it was up to Witty it seems by his logic he would have sided with Stalin, who wanted no Nuremberg Trials, but only mass beheadings in behalf victor's "justice." Stalin loved the quote marks around Justice too. And Goering, of course, knew them well. If it was up to Witty it seems by his logic he would have sided with Stalin, who wanted no Nuremberg Trials, but only mass beheadings in behalf victor’s “justice.”

Stalin loved the quote marks around Justice too. And Goering, of course,
knew them well.

]]> By: Citizen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127574 Citizen Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:54:19 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127574 Yeah, I noticed that too, Chaos. What Dick Witty is admitting by his own words is that he "was arguing relative to the characterization of " the Magnes Zionist's article. Given that, what are the chances Dick hadn't read that article at all before popping off? At best he skimmed it most briefly it appears. Do we see a pattern here? And, further, how often does Dick back up his abstract generalizations with any specific sources? Best accounting practices? Yeah, I noticed that too, Chaos. What Dick Witty is admitting by his own words
is that he “was arguing relative to the characterization of ” the Magnes Zionist’s article. Given that, what are the chances Dick hadn’t read that article at all before popping off? At best he skimmed it most briefly it appears. Do we see a pattern here? And, further, how often does Dick back up his abstract generalizations with any specific sources? Best accounting practices?

]]> By: Citizen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127572 Citizen Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:47:30 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127572 Do the Sioux have their own Joshua? If so, who is he, and where was the Sioux's ancient enemy, their own nemesis like Egypt? Do the Nuremberg Trials have any relevance? Are you suggesting there is no such thing as humanitarian progression? Do the Sioux have their own Joshua? If so, who is he, and where was the Sioux’s ancient enemy, their own nemesis like Egypt?
Do the Nuremberg Trials have any relevance?
Are you suggesting there is no such thing as humanitarian progression?

]]> By: Chaos4700 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127558 Chaos4700 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:40:07 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127558 Was the Native Americans Witty? How about South Africans? Is that how you intend to go about justifying colonialism, then? Was the Native Americans Witty? How about South Africans? Is that how you intend to go about justifying colonialism, then?

]]> By: Chaos4700 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127557 Chaos4700 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:38:14 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127557 <blockquote> I take back the comment “Magnes Zionist” is wrong. I hadn’t read his article fully. I was arguing relative to the characterization of his article. </blockquote> Yeah, this comment pretty much takes care of itself. I figured it only bore repeating, is all.

I take back the comment “Magnes Zionist” is wrong. I hadn’t read his article fully. I was arguing relative to the characterization of his article.

Yeah, this comment pretty much takes care of itself. I figured it only bore repeating, is all.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127556 Richard Witty Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:36:12 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127556 I disagree with your comments that the majority of the Old Yishuv was not about settlement, but hegemony. Do you believe that Palestinian ideology historically was about sharing? I disagree with your comments that the majority of the Old Yishuv was not about settlement, but hegemony.

Do you believe that Palestinian ideology historically was about sharing?

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127555 Richard Witty Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:33:29 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127555 I take back the comment "Magnes Zionist" is wrong. I hadn't read his article fully. I was arguing relative to the characterization of his article. His comments are NOT in line with the Sand thesis, nor the exageration of it in the Khazar "explanation". He describes a Jewish continuity, constructed of both/or blood and sentiment. He does include the prospect that many Palestinians are cousins to Jews, many halachically Jews (matrilineal descent), but either forced to or later willingly converted to Islam. That it is in fact impossible to now confidently distinguish a historical Jew from a non-Jew, as far as the religious promise of sovereignty over the land for the descendants of Yacov and/or Abraham. Its a compelling religious argument, that of openness and acceptance. Its difficult by that ideology to adopt any prohibition of Jewish settlement though. I'm not sure where Magnes Zionist comes down on settlement that does not distinguish whether it is in political Israel or political Palestine? I take back the comment “Magnes Zionist” is wrong. I hadn’t read his article fully. I was arguing relative to the characterization of his article.

His comments are NOT in line with the Sand thesis, nor the exageration of it in the Khazar “explanation”.

He describes a Jewish continuity, constructed of both/or blood and sentiment.

He does include the prospect that many Palestinians are cousins to Jews, many halachically Jews (matrilineal descent), but either forced to or later willingly converted to Islam.

That it is in fact impossible to now confidently distinguish a historical Jew from a non-Jew, as far as the religious promise of sovereignty over the land for the descendants of Yacov and/or Abraham.

Its a compelling religious argument, that of openness and acceptance.

Its difficult by that ideology to adopt any prohibition of Jewish settlement though. I’m not sure where Magnes Zionist comes down on settlement that does not distinguish whether it is in political Israel or political Palestine?

]]> By: Shmuel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127554 Shmuel Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:31:46 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127554 The Magnes Zionist is not my blog page, but Jerry Haber's. My reference to Haber was meant to clarify the quote you cited from his blog (Magnes Zionist). As for hegemony and discrimination vs. sharing and honouring and respecting, your above post as well as your other posts here would appear to support Jewish hegemony in at least part of Palestine - which is precisely the reason why non-Jewish Palestinians (and even Jewish Palestinians, if you count the Old Yishuv) opposed the Zionist programme. It was never about sharing. It was about a Jewish state and Jewish control. Jerry Haber (Magnes Zionist) and I, and Abunimeh and Ahmed Moor, and many others support sharing, honouring and respecting. Those who insist on a Jewish state and Jewish privilege do not. The Magnes Zionist is not my blog page, but Jerry Haber’s. My reference to Haber was meant to clarify the quote you cited from his blog (Magnes Zionist).

As for hegemony and discrimination vs. sharing and honouring and respecting, your above post as well as your other posts here would appear to support Jewish hegemony in at least part of Palestine – which is precisely the reason why non-Jewish Palestinians (and even Jewish Palestinians, if you count the Old Yishuv) opposed the Zionist programme. It was never about sharing. It was about a Jewish state and Jewish control. Jerry Haber (Magnes Zionist) and I, and Abunimeh and Ahmed Moor, and many others support sharing, honouring and respecting. Those who insist on a Jewish state and Jewish privilege do not.

]]> By: Chaos4700 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127553 Chaos4700 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:30:45 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127553 I look forward to the day, Witty, when you will put "Holocaust" in quotes because it will be a matter of rhetorical convenience for you to undermine <i>that</i> too. Sooner or later, Israel's going to run that gravy train dry, after all. I look forward to the day, Witty, when you will put “Holocaust” in quotes because it will be a matter of rhetorical convenience for you to undermine that too. Sooner or later, Israel’s going to run that gravy train dry, after all.

]]> By: Chaos4700 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/from-his-69-awakening-to-the-wild-animal-state-and-lobby-hilton-obenzinger-on-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-127552 Chaos4700 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:28:50 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11615#comment-127552 Was that cheap rhetoric flourish supposed to mean anything substantive, Witty? Was that cheap rhetoric flourish supposed to mean anything substantive, Witty?

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