Emily Hauser told the Nation recently that knowledge of the massacre in Gaza had given dissidents in the United States power. Later today Richard Goldstone, the international fount of that knowledge, will take on the mustachio’d Israeli ambassador Dore Gold, who has been paid $98,000 a year as a scholar by the American Enterprise Institute for what reason I’ve never known, presumably to promote Israel’s interests, at Brandeis. Links below:
TODAY AT 5:00 PM EST- RICHARD GOLDSTONE AND DORE GOLD DISCUSS THE GOLDSTONE REPORT LIVE ON STREAMING COMPUTER CONNECTION
| November 5, 2009 | Brandeis University |
Richard Goldstone and Dore Gold Discuss the Goldstone Report
at Brandeis University
Watch it LIVE online!
Thursday, November 5, 2009
5:00 PM Eastern Standard Time
Film of the forum will be archived on the Schusterman Center for Israel Studies site after the event.
Poor Justice Goldstone. I’m not sure what takes more courage – writing the report that he did, or the sysyphian task of debating every fifth rate hasbara hack on the face of the earth. The patience of a saint doesn’t even begin to describe it.
Some very good articles, (and not too long, either) at JSF:
link to jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com
And every article tells you whether it’s good for the Jews or bad for the Jews!
Not like here, where the articles taste like poison, and they’re so short, too.
(Oh, I love the articles here, that’s just a take-off on a couple of old jokes my Dad wrote.)
Looks like an important discussion.
Really? You think?
You have to understand, Witty has to inject a useless truism now and then. It’s the only method he has to prevent everything he puts down on virtual paper from being a misdirection or outright lie.
Daggnabbit, at my almer mayter no less. I wish I could attend, but work prevents it. I am more interested in the crowd reaction than anything else, as I don’t expect any surprises from the respective corners of Mssrs. Goldstone and Gold. Although I would hope that Goldstone has concluded that he has swallowed enough sh*t in the past weeks to make his responses more prickly than usual.
I hope Goldstone has a lot of patience when debating with someone like Dore Gold. This is the Teflon debater where he simply ignores your arguments and keeps repeating tired old statements like, Israel is a legitimate state, recognized by the UN and has the right to defend its citizens. Hamas is a terrorist group outlawed by the world community and therefore can’t be trusted or believed. He used this method when he partnered with Alan Dershowitz against (can’t remember the other side) on Frost’s show. The other side lost their temper specially when Dershowitz ran back to his signature cowardly argument of “you’re a bigot”.
Gold is slippery and slimey and his debating style is to get you angry with his slow cold responses that ignore your points which usually gets on the opponent’s nervers and makes them emotional then he strikes like a snake.
Good luck Dr. Goldstone, you are swimming with sharks.
“Gold is slippery and slimey and his debating style is to get you angry with his slow cold responses that ignore your points which usually gets on the opponent’s nervers and makes them emotional then he strikes like a snake.”
Alas, it sounds like we’ve found Witty’s role model.
Gold is really taking it too far with the videos. He seems like another angry zionist criminal defender. The problem for him is that he cannot admit that there were any problems with the IDF actions. He is only blaming to Palestinians. So far, it boils down to point #2. They Suck…
Bump, anyone wana comment? I haven’t seen this yet. Give me some of the highlights? Did we get all 4 Zionist debating points? Did he throw in a Hitler/Nazi analogy? A sprinkle of 6000 rockets bombarding S’Derot? Some framing of all violence in a ‘they want to kill all the Juice’ narrative? Oh and what about the fantastic offers Israel made to the Palestinians? Any superficial statements like ‘Israel left Gaza and got rockets’?
Etc. etc.
Dore Gold is a lying sack of Zionism.
I watched the whole webcast last night and it was surprisingly good. Gold did what i expected him to do but failed to make Judge Goldstone angry. Gold seemed outclassed and used typical media tricks to make a bad point, as if those students at Brandeis were all stupid. He kept referencing quotes and images on the screen as proof of how IDF was a moral army and tried its best to avoid killing civilians. He was sickening specially when he accused Hamas of blowing up a lot of the buildings and the mosque where several people were killed during combined prayer. He said “the IDF didn’t do this and it was really explosives stored by Hamas in the building”, Goldstone ridiculed the repsonse and mentioned the IDF markings found inside the mosque from the missiles they used.
The questions by students were mostly simple but gave Goldstone a chance to hamper on the main point that Israel refused to give him and his team access to the towns in southern Israel for his investigation which he wanted to emphasize the pain on the civilians in these towns. Gold had no response to this.
My favorite part was Gold didn’t disappoint me as I always knew him and mentioned
in my earlier post,
“keeps repeating tired old statements like, Israel is a legitimate state, recognized by the UN and has the right to defend its citizens. Hamas is a terrorist group outlawed by the world community and therefore can’t be trusted or believed”
well he did it again, but Goldstone was great and kept referring to the destruction of civil infrastructure like the water works, sewage and schools and asked how is this a proportional response and not targeting civilians.
Good work Judge Goldstone and i think he noticably outclassed Gold and showed some sympathy top a Palestinian woman who tried to ask a question about Palestinian representation in the debate and he agreed with her that would have been great. Of course Gold and his usual slimey and classless way chuckled and said, if you tried to get a Palestinian point of view you couldn’t since they’re so divided, what an a**hole.
I forgot one more really interesting comment by Gold. He mentioned how Israel is always picked on by the UN and has no one to support it. He referenced “if someone attacks Luxembourg” then the european community would come to its aid, if some country in Asia was attacked then the whole Asianic community would help, whereas poor Israel picked on by the UN doesn’t have anyone to come to its aid… I had tears in my eyes and was fighting to keep my dinner. Surprised no one mentioned to him that the US has blocked dozens of UN resolutions condeming Israel. And the dozens of resolutions where western powers including England, Canada and the ussual suspects sided with Israel. In one breath he mentioned the Congressional resoltion to ignore the Goldstone report and then he says Israel has no one to protect it…Poor Israel is on its own with no friends, well, just the US, Canada, England, France, Germany, and pretty well all of “new” Europe who have now rewritten the war crimes manual and nullified the Geneva convention. Based on this, Radavan Karadizch should be set free.
It does serve as a constant reminder, how critical lies, deceipt and conflation is to the Zionist propaganda machine. Surely Gold must have known he was lying, or had no way of knowing whether they were Hamas explosives or IDF munitions that blew up the Mosque.
Surely he must have realized how obvious it was that Israel is given defacto veto power at the UN? Where was he the day that Dan Gillerman, ambassador to the UN ar the time of the Lebanon war, boasted that Israel had 2 UN representatives the UN, him and the US Mbassador at the time, John Bolton.
These people have no shame.
I saw the first hour of the debate. Goldstone spoke first and was unsurprising, just his usual very impressive self. Gold was utterly outrageous, telling that fairy tale about the 35 Israeli soldiers who were killed because they allowed an Arab peasant to be freed who gave up their position, and how this noble story is engrained in every Israeli soldier as the model of how to act. What a remarkable performance! I’d never heard that story but cannot imagine an Israeli soldier, or any other soldier, hearing it without laughing. Does Gold himself really believe this bullshit? It should be embarrassing to tell that story. I’m a criminal defense lawyer who has made creative arguments on behalf of clients, but I could never present anything this stupid without making myself laugh.
I’d love to see the rest of the Brandeis show, including the questions from the audience, but am somewhat technologically challenged. Anyone know where to find it?
I forgot that part, when i heard him tell this story, i wondered where Dore Gold thought he was when he was by citing this type of crap. But, this is typical Dore Gold and fabricating things is not unusual for Isareli politicians trying to defend their actions.
Here is the link for the summary of the debate. Brandeis will be posting the video on Monday according to their site, try to catch it, it was good.
link to brandeis.edu
Gold had come across with a the classic Zionist perspective, as if he were living in Europe in 1905. His point was that Jews are victims and no one will help them unless they help themselves (to more Palestinian land, resources, you name it). His tone was loud and the slightly beligerent in general.
While Goldstone did challenge Gold on a few occasions, Gold never debated or rebutted Goldstone. He seemed to carry on about these points: Israel is terrorized by Palestinians , Israel is alone in the world, Israel is targeted by the UN.
Goldstone has a much more open attitude, and did not seem to be affected by Gold. Goldstone reinforced, in a humble manner, that Israel had targeted civilian populations, and he independently chose 36 instances where Israel did this.
He mentioned to read chapter 24 of his report to gain a view of the bigger picture.
The main problem with Gold’s argument is that while there are terrorist actions from Palestinians (rocket fire in Sderot), Israel continues to occupy and further erode their remaining land. Should Hamas just roll over and say where do you want us to go? Hamas is their military defense, and Fatah has only shown they will concede whenever asked. Goldstone could’ve made this point, but was there to defend the report, which was the purpose of the debate.
Added, the crowd seemed to be in favor of Goldstone, The audience applause was more on his behalf.
When Gold was talking about Israel’s civilian army and how they have the ability to investigate themselves I am glad Goldstone called him on this point. Goldstone said the only violation they found in the military was one instance of credit card fraud.
Go IDF… I shot, two kills.