Comments on: Haaretz: lobby supports occupation, and therein Israel’s ‘moral, political, religious corruption’ http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:02:11 +0000 hourly 1 By: Citizen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126588 Citizen Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:46:27 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126588 Yep, I don't doubt it. Yep, I don’t doubt it.

]]> By: Shmuel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126318 Shmuel Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:23:40 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126318 Where I live, such behaviour is generally associated with Americans of all faiths - also a stereotype, but everyone I know has some personal experience to back it up. Where I live, such behaviour is generally associated with Americans of all faiths – also a stereotype, but everyone I know has some personal experience to back it up.

]]> By: Citizen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126303 Citizen Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:28:28 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126303 Yes it is that stereotype. Incidentally, my experience is contrary to yours, Shmuel. Yes it is that stereotype. Incidentally, my experience is contrary to yours, Shmuel.

]]> By: Call Me Ishmael http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126150 Call Me Ishmael Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:47:37 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126150 Nothing I said implies that I blame the Israel Lobby for "everything" - not for Viet Nam, not for the Philippines, not for the Mexican War, etc. Nor did I mean to give you the idea that I admire US foreign policy sans Lobby influence. Nothing I said implies that I blame the Israel Lobby for “everything” – not for Viet Nam, not for the Philippines, not for the Mexican War, etc. Nor did I mean to give you the idea that I admire US foreign policy sans Lobby influence.

]]> By: Chaos4700 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126141 Chaos4700 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:14:38 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126141 Well, I don't think we read it as physical aggression either (I certainly didn't) but rather social aggression. And to be fair, yeah, "aggressiveness" will have different meanings than aggression especially in the context you intended. Well, I don’t think we read it as physical aggression either (I certainly didn’t) but rather social aggression. And to be fair, yeah, “aggressiveness” will have different meanings than aggression especially in the context you intended.

]]> By: Don http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126096 Don Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:28:59 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126096 ...contorts US foreign policy... I don't agree, in general, as far as our foreign policy is concerned. 1. In regard to the middle east, this is true, in many (not all) respects. 1. Our foreign policy (as far as human rights are concerned) have been terrible prior to the lobby's existence; and would continue to be terrible if the lobby disappeared tomorrow. What did the Israel Lobby have to do with Viet Nam, or the Phillipines, for that matter. Or any number of places we have supported the suppression of human rights. I am no fan of the lobby, but there is little value in blaming it for everything (and absolving us of our own responsibilities). …contorts US foreign policy…

I don’t agree, in general, as far as our foreign policy is concerned.

1. In regard to the middle east, this is true, in many (not all) respects.

1. Our foreign policy (as far as human rights are concerned) have been terrible prior to the lobby’s existence; and would continue to be terrible if the lobby disappeared tomorrow.

What did the Israel Lobby have to do with Viet Nam, or the Phillipines, for that matter. Or any number of places we have supported the suppression of human rights.

I am no fan of the lobby, but there is little value in blaming it for everything (and absolving us of our own responsibilities).

]]> By: Shmuel http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126067 Shmuel Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:13:00 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126067 Beside Ch.4's point that is, which Pfeffer was commenting on. Beside Ch.4′s point that is, which Pfeffer was commenting on.

]]> By: Call Me Ishmael http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126064 Call Me Ishmael Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:56:02 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126064 Colin, I am still fretting over your reaction to my comments above and think I should say a bit more. Sometimes on this blog I choose to express certain widely-held views provocatively. There is a central purpose behind my deliberate provocativeness, but in all honesty the reasons for it do not include anti-Jewish feelings. Colin, I am still fretting over your reaction to my comments above and think I should say a bit more. Sometimes on this blog I choose to express certain widely-held views provocatively. There is a central purpose behind my deliberate provocativeness, but in all honesty the reasons for it do not include anti-Jewish feelings.

]]> By: Call Me Ishmael http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126062 Call Me Ishmael Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:40:33 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126062 Shmuel and Chaos, when I used the term "aggressiveness" I meant only the disposition to work intensely toward achievement of one's goals, NOT physical aggression. This may be a stereotype, but I do believe that the empirical evidence would support the notion that Jews on the whole score greater than average in this trait. The term was introduced by Colin, and I was only replying to his use of it. Shmuel and Chaos, when I used the term “aggressiveness” I meant only the disposition to work intensely toward achievement of one’s goals, NOT physical aggression. This may be a stereotype, but I do believe that the empirical evidence would support the notion that Jews on the whole score greater than average in this trait. The term was introduced by Colin, and I was only replying to his use of it.

]]> By: potsherd http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/haaretz-lobby-supports-occupation-and-therein-israels-moral-political-religious-corruption.html/comment-page-1#comment-126055 potsherd Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:18:08 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11412#comment-126055 It's certainly not beside Pfeffer's point, but it's less relevant to those of us who live in the countries where the legislatures are corrupted by these lobbies. It's like the truism that slavery morally corrupts both the slave-owner and the slave. While it is true, the slave doesn't give a shit that the master's morals are corrupted - the slave is rightly concerned about the fact that he is in chains. It’s certainly not beside Pfeffer’s point, but it’s less relevant to those of us who live in the countries where the legislatures are corrupted by these lobbies. It’s like the truism that slavery morally corrupts both the slave-owner and the slave. While it is true, the slave doesn’t give a shit that the master’s morals are corrupted – the slave is rightly concerned about the fact that he is in chains.

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