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	<title>Comments on: History of an illusion: Palestinians to declare a state within &#8217;67 borders</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html</link>
	<description>The War of Ideas in the Middle East</description>
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		<title>By: robin</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html/comment-page-1#comment-123148</link>
		<dc:creator>robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10887#comment-123148</guid>
		<description>It has been done before, I thought. 

I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s a good idea, there are certainly ways Israel can spin it (the illusion of Palestinian empowerment as a threat, or a counterpoint to arguments about Palestinian oppression). But maybe there would be benefits, in terms of publicity. It certainly wouldn&#039;t change anything on the ground, and I lean towards the idea that it would help (as does the whole two-state framework) obfuscate the realities of the situation in a damaging way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been done before, I thought. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s a good idea, there are certainly ways Israel can spin it (the illusion of Palestinian empowerment as a threat, or a counterpoint to arguments about Palestinian oppression). But maybe there would be benefits, in terms of publicity. It certainly wouldn&#8217;t change anything on the ground, and I lean towards the idea that it would help (as does the whole two-state framework) obfuscate the realities of the situation in a damaging way.</p>
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		<title>By: potsherd</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html/comment-page-1#comment-123059</link>
		<dc:creator>potsherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10887#comment-123059</guid>
		<description>It was the illegal PM of the PA, Fayyad, who said he would do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was the illegal PM of the PA, Fayyad, who said he would do this.</p>
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		<title>By: Chaos4700</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html/comment-page-1#comment-123005</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaos4700</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10887#comment-123005</guid>
		<description>Did he really saw something along the lines of, We can’t permit another Lebanon or Gaza “in the heart of our country&quot;? And then turn around and say that the Goldstone report is false?

I&#039;m trying to picture in my head how that would sounded. &quot;We &lt;i&gt;cannot&lt;/i&gt; allow war crimes, like the ones we did to Gaza and Lebanon, happen on our soil. But they aren&#039;t war crimes when we do it to others, so the Goldstone report must be rejected!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did he really saw something along the lines of, We can’t permit another Lebanon or Gaza “in the heart of our country&#8221;? And then turn around and say that the Goldstone report is false?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to picture in my head how that would sounded. &#8220;We <i>cannot</i> allow war crimes, like the ones we did to Gaza and Lebanon, happen on our soil. But they aren&#8217;t war crimes when we do it to others, so the Goldstone report must be rejected!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chaos4700</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html/comment-page-1#comment-123003</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaos4700</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10887#comment-123003</guid>
		<description>One hopes the Palestinian leaders know better than to take the Obama Administration at its nudge-nudge wink-wink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One hopes the Palestinian leaders know better than to take the Obama Administration at its nudge-nudge wink-wink.</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html/comment-page-1#comment-123002</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10887#comment-123002</guid>
		<description>Who would be the Palestinian to announce it? Israel unilaterally declared itself a state, and what&#039;s good for the goose is good for the gander. The Palestinians should just do it, and announce it to the world. Lack of fixed borders shouldn&#039;t be a problem; all that can be worked out later--What is the main reason it has already not been done? It should be declared and a request should go simultaneously to the UN for recognition. All interested parties would be put on the spot, in a world kleig light. 

Ben Netanyahu is on CSPAN now speaking to the Jewish Federation of North America.
&quot;Jews brought to the world 3 ideas: (1) monotheism, (2) all people have innate rights, and (3) a prophetic
notion of world peace.&quot; Now, he&#039;s reading out a list of very disproportionate Jewish contributions in the arts, technology, etc. Now, he&#039;s reading out a list of how history
has tried to destroy the Jews. Now he&#039;s saying the USA-Israeli alliance is a cornerstone
of Jewish security, supported by 2% of USA population. A small Israel demands a secure peace; peace with Israel&#039;s arab neighbors is the way go;  a start towards economic prosperity for all in the region has been made; no time to waste; his goal is not endless negotiations but to achieve peace with the Pals, and soon; to get to this, we have to stop negotiating about negotiations; we need a demilitaryized Pal state; his policy is always religious tolerance; a Jewish state means Pals must recognize that they cannot flood Israel with refugees and announce the conflict is over; it may take years for the spirit of this peace to be internalized by the Pals; Israel is powerful, but it is small, and regardless of boundaries, will remain small. Israel is only bigger than RI.
Not all small countries that are small are insecure, e.g., Belgium and Luxembourg--but they don&#039;t face Israel&#039;s security threats, e..g., the ship from Iran bound for Syria with weapons Israel just confiscated. Hezballah rockets can reach Israel, etc. He&#039;s ready to make great concessions for peace, but will never risk Israel&#039;s security. We can&#039;t permit another Lebanon or Gaza &quot;in the heart of our country.&quot; The UN report on Gaza falsely accuses Israel of war crimes. Rejection of Goldstone Report sends message to all
Israel will defend itself and Obama is to be praised, as is US Congress, for condemning the Goldstone Report. Thanks also goes to Canada for supporting Israel&#039;s self defense.
The recent US-Israel military  exercise is to be praised. 1400 US military personnel participated.
Israel is not just talking peace; we&#039;ve removed hundreds of roadblocks, checkpoints, loosened bureaucratic red tape for Pals to grow economically--they&#039;re life is better these days, their businesses are booming--I will do more of the same to further Pal prosperity. But we must begin and complete peace negotiations; my regime has gone further than any past Israeli regime to make peace possible. We need a committed Pal partner to achieve peace, one willing to shoulder the risks as we have been. Another great challenge is to prevent the anti-semitic, terrorist regime of Iran (both domestically and internationally) from realizing its nuclear ambitions. The 3rd big challenge is how to reduce the world&#039;s dependence on oil; can we dramatically reduce our oil dependence? Salt as preservation tool once once king, but science reduced its high stature. Israeli innovation is changing the world; Israel is the start up nation--
we lead the world in desalination and solar energy. These tasks are major, but Herzel
showed how a clear plan and sense of urgency can overcome a huge hurdle like the Jewish sense of powerlessness. &quot;The tragedy of the Jewish people is that we don&#039;t believe in ourselves,&quot; Herzel said, but it can be done, is no dream--the hardest task is in the Jewish people&#039;s reach. &quot;We can steer humanity towards a better future for all.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who would be the Palestinian to announce it? Israel unilaterally declared itself a state, and what&#8217;s good for the goose is good for the gander. The Palestinians should just do it, and announce it to the world. Lack of fixed borders shouldn&#8217;t be a problem; all that can be worked out later&#8211;What is the main reason it has already not been done? It should be declared and a request should go simultaneously to the UN for recognition. All interested parties would be put on the spot, in a world kleig light. </p>
<p>Ben Netanyahu is on CSPAN now speaking to the Jewish Federation of North America.<br />
&#8220;Jews brought to the world 3 ideas: (1) monotheism, (2) all people have innate rights, and (3) a prophetic<br />
notion of world peace.&#8221; Now, he&#8217;s reading out a list of very disproportionate Jewish contributions in the arts, technology, etc. Now, he&#8217;s reading out a list of how history<br />
has tried to destroy the Jews. Now he&#8217;s saying the USA-Israeli alliance is a cornerstone<br />
of Jewish security, supported by 2% of USA population. A small Israel demands a secure peace; peace with Israel&#8217;s arab neighbors is the way go;  a start towards economic prosperity for all in the region has been made; no time to waste; his goal is not endless negotiations but to achieve peace with the Pals, and soon; to get to this, we have to stop negotiating about negotiations; we need a demilitaryized Pal state; his policy is always religious tolerance; a Jewish state means Pals must recognize that they cannot flood Israel with refugees and announce the conflict is over; it may take years for the spirit of this peace to be internalized by the Pals; Israel is powerful, but it is small, and regardless of boundaries, will remain small. Israel is only bigger than RI.<br />
Not all small countries that are small are insecure, e.g., Belgium and Luxembourg&#8211;but they don&#8217;t face Israel&#8217;s security threats, e..g., the ship from Iran bound for Syria with weapons Israel just confiscated. Hezballah rockets can reach Israel, etc. He&#8217;s ready to make great concessions for peace, but will never risk Israel&#8217;s security. We can&#8217;t permit another Lebanon or Gaza &#8220;in the heart of our country.&#8221; The UN report on Gaza falsely accuses Israel of war crimes. Rejection of Goldstone Report sends message to all<br />
Israel will defend itself and Obama is to be praised, as is US Congress, for condemning the Goldstone Report. Thanks also goes to Canada for supporting Israel&#8217;s self defense.<br />
The recent US-Israel military  exercise is to be praised. 1400 US military personnel participated.<br />
Israel is not just talking peace; we&#8217;ve removed hundreds of roadblocks, checkpoints, loosened bureaucratic red tape for Pals to grow economically&#8211;they&#8217;re life is better these days, their businesses are booming&#8211;I will do more of the same to further Pal prosperity. But we must begin and complete peace negotiations; my regime has gone further than any past Israeli regime to make peace possible. We need a committed Pal partner to achieve peace, one willing to shoulder the risks as we have been. Another great challenge is to prevent the anti-semitic, terrorist regime of Iran (both domestically and internationally) from realizing its nuclear ambitions. The 3rd big challenge is how to reduce the world&#8217;s dependence on oil; can we dramatically reduce our oil dependence? Salt as preservation tool once once king, but science reduced its high stature. Israeli innovation is changing the world; Israel is the start up nation&#8211;<br />
we lead the world in desalination and solar energy. These tasks are major, but Herzel<br />
showed how a clear plan and sense of urgency can overcome a huge hurdle like the Jewish sense of powerlessness. &#8220;The tragedy of the Jewish people is that we don&#8217;t believe in ourselves,&#8221; Herzel said, but it can be done, is no dream&#8211;the hardest task is in the Jewish people&#8217;s reach. &#8220;We can steer humanity towards a better future for all.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: potsherd</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html/comment-page-1#comment-123000</link>
		<dc:creator>potsherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10887#comment-123000</guid>
		<description>I saw Ha&#039;aretz coverage in which there was a suggestion that Obama had already given tacit agreement to the Fayyad plan.   But it&#039;s the one-state side that seems to have the most legs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw Ha&#8217;aretz coverage in which there was a suggestion that Obama had already given tacit agreement to the Fayyad plan.   But it&#8217;s the one-state side that seems to have the most legs.</p>
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		<title>By: Chaos4700</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html/comment-page-1#comment-122989</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaos4700</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10887#comment-122989</guid>
		<description>Then again, on second thought, that really wouldn&#039;t do anything about the Israeli war machine. You&#039;d have the Palestinian state for maybe a day and then Israeli tanks and war planes would do all over it what they did to Gaza almost a year ago.

So in retrospect, it seems to me that the Palestinians seeking a one state solution is actually still better than this gambit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then again, on second thought, that really wouldn&#8217;t do anything about the Israeli war machine. You&#8217;d have the Palestinian state for maybe a day and then Israeli tanks and war planes would do all over it what they did to Gaza almost a year ago.</p>
<p>So in retrospect, it seems to me that the Palestinians seeking a one state solution is actually still better than this gambit.</p>
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		<title>By: Chaos4700</title>
		<link>http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/history-of-an-illusion-palestinians-to-declare-a-state-within-67-borders.html/comment-page-1#comment-122985</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaos4700</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mondoweiss.net/?p=10887#comment-122985</guid>
		<description>Why not? What have the Palestinians got to lose? The whole damn world will agree to a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders except for the US and Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not? What have the Palestinians got to lose? The whole damn world will agree to a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders except for the US and Israel.</p>
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