The Republican Jewish congressman spoke to the Jewish Federations General Assembly and in describing the growing crisis of Israel's legitimacy, suggested that this process also threatened the "security" of American Jews, who ought to take off the "blinders." Israel's security is "synonymous with our own," and we have to act before it's too late (so reports Eric Fingerhut of JTA).
A lot of this is about identity formation. Read the great Henry Siegman to see an attack on the mythology/attitude that the world is against the Jews.
And Maya Wind of the Shministim also combats that belief here.
Great! America faces countless problems and all Cantor is worried about is Israel and Jews. America is good for nothing except protecting Jews and Israel to these people! If there is ever any real threat to Jews in the U.S., it will be people like Cantor who put Jews in danger.
Cantor will be happy to see his call to save all Jews everywhere–never mind the expense– is being taught by a growing
number of Israeli Jews who take him seriously and are teaching the kids:
link to haaretz.com
But I don’t see where his equation of Israeli and USA interests fits in–
Can’t we get some of this on tape? Can’t we have video? That makes good campaign commercials, after all.
Israel’s security is “synonymous with our own”
Agreed.
The more Israel makes it clear that Jews everywhere else have dual loyalty and are more loyal to it than their countries of birth the more resentment there is, and the goyim take their blinders off.
Israel is now a danger to the Jews not living in it, because this resentment and feelings of being a second class citizen in your own country to a religious/ethnic(?) minority is galling for many and affects their feelings towards the “chosen” people.
It looks like the old guard of Israel and AIPAC (the elders of Zion, one may jokingly call them) are seeing cracks in the monolithic support of Israel, especially from young humanist Jews horrified by things like Lebanon war, Sabra and Shatilla massacres, etc.
But you gotta factor in the Wittian belief that his goy neighbors might shove him and his family in a cattle car destined for recycling at the drop of a baseball or skull cap. What’s the slow demolition of the entire USA compared to that? Talk about an expensive health insurance policy!
Cantor and his friends should be treated for paranoid psychosis.
Cantor is a wooden fraud. I watched him at the AIPAC conference crying about the Holocaust, Israel, etc. The only Jewish Republican in the house, he’s also the minority whip.
The only thing good he represents is how desperate the Jewish politicians in America are becoming. This guy will not make it far, he’s weak and he loves to cry about being a victim. If he doesn’t know that he should’ve chosen in the Democratic party at this point, how is he imploring Jews that they need to take the blinders off and follow his global wisdom? He’s a salesman with his boring and sad tales. It’s bad theater for all.
Next thing, Cantor will claim that the Jewish settlement of the West Bank is necessary for American security.
Antisemitism is ultimately about seeing Jews as other. There are three major versions, and some minor versions of this.
Hitler expressed one version. Maya Wind pointed out another – all Gentiles are untrustworthy a Jewish version. The liberal version is that Jews are more deserving than everyone else.
The support for Israel contains a whole lot of liberal guilt, but is not without its secret belief in Jews as “other”. It is not individuals who need Justice and help from the effects of the holocaust – Roma, mentally ill, Jews and so on, but JEWS – Jews as a group not as individuals. Jews who converted yesterday, but not Christians converts whose Jewish families were wiped out at Treblinka. We might pay lip service to the Roma, but would never think to demand that those Roma who were expelled from Israel having fled to Palestine long before the formation of the current state be allowed to return to their homes after having been driven out during the ethnic cleansing.
Jews – as Jews are unique and should be subject to unique “justice”.
The idea is well embedded in Zionism. 1. Jews are different and need their own state. 2. A Jewish state will not act in ways that all other states do and turn on its own citizens. It is not that Zionists are racist as claimed by the various communist countries, rather as much as a definition of antisemitism exists, they are antisemitic. A Jewish government will do no better in protecting its citizens than the governments of any other country. Israel is currently working itself up to murdering Jews who insist on helping the Palestinians. Anarchists Against the Wall had better watch out. The last lie that surrounds the founding of Israel is getting ready to fall.
Tying this in with the title – antisemitism is alive and well in the US. It is tied directly in with support for Israel. (In some cases, like among the extreme right wing religious fundamentalists that antisemitism is overt.) Israel is the engine that keeps the racism going. At some point, if we do nothing, that antisemitism will find it more convenient to not support Israel. The longer we wait the worse the problem will be. Genocide in the US? No. That required a number of specific circumstances that do not exist in the US as far as I can see. Racism against Jews? We already have lots of racism for Jews as a race. Racism against Jews as a race is only the other side of the coin – no real change at all.
My small problem is that Judaism itself posits the Other ipso facto; so do the Christians and Muslims, but the Jewish religion also blends in ethnicity, while the other two competing religions depend only on beliefs devoid of any such strand.
Judaism and Christianity have strong undercurrents of racism that run through them. I don’t know enough about Islam to comment on the racism. All three have a misogynistic streak in them as well.
There is a particular verse that Christians used to condemn “cross racial” marriage. Unfortunately I don’t remember it, and can’t easily find it on the web. Churches such as Church of Jesus Christ-Christian (I won’t link it.) carry on the tradition.
All three religions are changing as the world changes. Your view of a static Judiasm is perhaps convenient, but is completely wrong. All three religions have in some cases gone beyond the stereotypes that have been allotted to them. For example, the Muslim Canadian Congress supports same sex marriage. (link to muslimcanadiancongress.org
On this site Mooser provides a very different example of a religious Jew than what you claim exist.
potsherd will claim, no Jews can live in Judea and Samaria but millions of Arabs must live in Israel. HYPOCRIT
Jews got along just fine in Palestine before European Zionists came along and brought terrorism and militancy to the modern Holy Land.
Judea and Samaria but millions of Arabs must live in Israel.
They’re called Palestinians, not Arabs.
There’s no such thing as Judea and Samaria.
Potsherd will claim that people shouldn’t feed the trolls.
Actually, Jews should indeed live in “Judea and Samaria.” They should live all over the world. They should live everywhere between Morocco and Iran. And Palestinians should live in Ramle and Lydd. They should have the right to tear up the runways at Ben Gurion airport and replant their orchards – or get compensation (at present value, with rental for sixty years, plus interest), and the right to live nearby. When this is recognized it will make it much easier for Jews to live in “Judea and Samaria.”
Henry Siegman’s article is a must-read.
Yep, especially his very un-Wittian conclusion: “…blaming Palestinians for their misery is nothing more than a pretext for the continuation of a colonialist enterprise that every other democracy in the world has relegated to a shameful past. “
Yes, a very good read. I found this to be revealing:
At least someone in the IDF had some sense. Too bad he didn’t have enough influence to ease the restrictions. So many lives could have been saved. Note to Witty: Even an IDF Brigadier General could see that that there were other better options for stopping the qassams than a military attack on Gaza.
I recall reading that about Zakai. But there were more top figures. The ex mossad chief Efraim Halevi said a similar thing in an interview.
Palestinian Justifications for Killing Jews
A handful of Jews living in Hebron is reason enough for Arabs to attempt to repeat the massacre of Jews in the 1920s.
Jews worshipping at Joseph’s Tomb is reason to kill them and to destroy this holy Jewish shrine (then rebuild it as a mosque).
Jewish children eating pizza in Jerusalem is offensive enough for Arabs to kill them.
Jewish teenagers at a Tel Aviv disco is enough to make them a target for death.
Jews gathering to observe the Passover tradition in Netanya is justification for a massacre.
Not freeing Arab murderers (who wish to return to kill more) is justification to kill Israelis.
Building a security fence to protect innocent women and children is sufficient justification for killing Jews.
Declaring Israel to be the sole Jewish state is reason enough for Arabs to kill us.
Not allowing four million Arabs, who have never set foot here, to enter Israel and swamp us demographically, is justification to kill Jews.
Our very existence is justification for them to kill us in rage.
And the spam-fest starts. Somebody fetch the garbage truck.
Nomi’s having his Gleiwitz moment yet again.
Nomi998, give it up; you are embarrassing the zionist hasbara regulars here.
Arab terrorism in the Holy Land originated centuries before the recent “tool” of the Palestinian cause was invented. In towns where Jews lived for hundreds of years were periodically robbed, raped, and massacred. The Ottoman installed Arab ruler: Ibn Barouk, who In 1660 had the entire Jewish community in Jaffa massacred by Arabs, with only one survivor. The Muslim leader during the 1800s: Ahmad Basha El-Jazzar [The butcher] held this name, when he told all Arabs to kill as many Jews as possible. The butchers type of killing was as sadistic as any killing. He cut off his nose, ear, and gouged out his eye of his Jewish Victims. In the 1830s havoc was created during the Egyptian reign of Palestine, and the Jews were persecuted brutally throughout the country.
In 1834 the Arab inhabitants of the East Bank, crossed the Jordan River to join natives of Nablus, Hebron, and Bethlehem. 40,000 of them rushed on Jerusalem and looted the city for 5 days were the Jews had their homes sacked and their women raped. (DeHass, History, vol V, p.393). The Jewish story in Palestine was like the story of a rape victim, blamed for being there at the time. In the following few decades (1848 – 1878) scores of incidents involving anti-Jewish violence, persecution, and extortions filled page after page of documented reports from the British Consulate in Jerusalem too overwhelming to show in these pages. Throughout the 19th century Jews were victims of mass hunger and of Arab attacks.
A Christian British traveller, Mrs. A. Goodrich-Freer, wrote poignantly in 1903 of the plight of Jews in Muslim-ruled Jerusalem, observing the patience “with which Jews ignore the insults shouted after them in the streets.” She commented on the injustice of Arabs’ extorting money from Jews: “Considering how much [Jews] contribute as citizens to the welfare of Jerusalem, it is sad that large sums of money should be paid for permission to pray beside the western wall of the Temple enclosure, to the villagers of Siloam for not disturbing the graves east of the village, and to the Arabs for letting alone the Jewish share of the Tomb of Rachel on the road to Bethlehem.”
The 1929 and 1936 Arab riots led by the Nortorious Palestinian Nazi Leader, Hajj Amin Al Husseini resulted in the rape and massacre of most of Hebron’s Jewish community
In 1948 when Jordan captured the Old City, the Arabs killed or expelled every Jew in eastern Jerusalem, destroyed every one of 58 synagogues in the ancient Jewish quarter, and desecrated the 2,500 year old Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, digging a road through it and using Jewish tombstones as a pathway to an army latrine. The Arabs decreed that selling land to a Jew was a crime punishable by death. (Indeed, Palestinian Authority Minister of Justice Freih Abu Medein has now apparently reinstated the edict, having said in a December 23rd interview that Arabs selling land to Israelis are traitors and “we are planning to send them to execution.”)
DHIMMI: A BRIEF OVERVIEW
7th-21st century. The notion of Dhimmitude, originating in the 7th century, still applies today to non-Muslims under Islamic rule—whether Jews or Christians, whether in Saudi Arabia or in Sudan. Dhimmitude began in 628 CE when Mohammed and his forces conquered the Jewish oasis at Khaybar. They massacred many of the Jews and forced the rest to accept a pact (“Dhimma”) which rendered them inferiror to their Muslim conquerors. Over the centuries, the ideology of Dhimmitude expanded into a formal system of religious apartheid.
Institutionalized apartheid. In Shari’a law, there are official discriminations against the Dhimmi, such as the poll-tax or jizya.
No legal rights. Jews may not testify in court against a Muslim and have no legal right to dispute or challenge anything done to them by Muslims. There is no such thing as a Muslim raping a Jewish woman; there is no such thing as a Muslim murdering a Jew (at most, it can be manslaughter). In contrast, a Jew who strikes a Muslim is killed.
Humiliation and vulnerability. Jews had to walk around with badges or veils identifying them as Jews. The yellow star that Jews had wear in Nazi Germany did not originate in Europe. It was borrowed from the Muslim world where it was part of the apartheid system of Dhimmitude.
Conditional protection. The protection of the Dhimmi is withdrawn if the Dhimmi rebels against Islamic law, gives allegiance to non-Muslim power (such as Israel), refuses to pay the poll-tax, entices a Muslim from his faith, or harms a Muslim or his property. If the protection is lifted, jihad resumes. For example, Islamists in Egypt who pillage and kill the Copts do so because they no longer pay their poll-tax and therefore are no longer protected.
Here’s detailed information about DHIMMI
In the History of al-Tabari (Ta’rikh al-rusul wa’l-muluk), (The History of al-Tabari (Ta’rikh al rusul wa’l-muluk), ed. by Ehsan Yar-Shater, vol. 12, transl. and ann. by Yohanan Friedman, State University of New York Press, 1992) in the volume describing the conquest of Iraq by the Arab-Muslim armies, we read the recommendation given by Umar b. al-Khattab to the commander of the troops he sent to al-Basrah (636 C.E.). Umar said:
“Summon the people to God; those who respond to your call, accept it from them, (This is to say, accept their conversion as genuine and refrain from fighting them) but those who refuse must pay the poll tax out of humiliation and lowliness. (Qur’an 9:29) If they refuse this, it is the sword without leniency. Fear God with regard to what you have been entrusted.”
This is the pattern of the jihad war. Tabari was a great Muslim scholar, author of a monumental historical work on the Arab-Muslim conquest, among other prestigious works. He died in 923, and by then the Muslim empire had expanded from Portugal to India. After Tabari’s death, the Muslim conquests continued in Asia, as well as on Christian eastern European lands. The Christian kingdoms of Armenia, Byzantium, Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Croatia, Albania [and] parts of Poland and Hungary were conquered. The Muslim armies were stopped at the gates of Vienna in 1683. The jihad lasted over a millennium.
Such tremendous military success gave rise to a triumphalist jihad literature. Muslim historians recorded in details the number of slain infidels, the enslavement of the populations, the booty in captives, cattle and movable goods, the cities which were destroyed, razed or spared and taken by treaty and the countryside pillaged or set on fire. There are countless descriptions by Muslim historians on the jihad wars. Battles and victories have been described from Portugal to India, from Budapest to Sudan.
This information is not only available in Muslim sources, but also in Christian sources, which complement the Muslim perspective by giving the evidence of the victims of jihad wars. Those Christian sources are Coptic, Armenian, Jacobite, Greek, Slave, Spanish, Italian, etc.
So one sees that the jihad wars, the war of conquest of infidel’s territory, that had lasted for over a millennium and had expanded on three continents, is a very well documented historical field. Thus, it is astonishing when this well-characterized historiography is largely ignored, or even denied, in scholarly works. One is amazed to see that sometimes it is denied, even in scholarly books.
Jihad, therefore, was an ongoing historical process that brought vast Christian territories, with their population and civilization, under the rule of Islamic law, transforming them from a Christian civilization into an Islamic civilization, as we know them today in Turkey, the Middle East and in North Africa.
If jihad has been pursued century after century, it is because jihad, which means “to strive in the path of Allah,” embodied an ideology and a jurisdiction. Both were conceived by Muslim jurists consults from the eighth to ninth centuries onward. Briefly presented, the ideology of jihad separates the world into two irreconcilable entities: dar al-Islam (the land of Islam) and dar al-Harb (the land of war), controlled by the infidels. The duty of the Muslims is to impose the Islamic law on the whole world, either by persuasion or by war, and those efforts which imply sacrifices represent the “fight in the path of Allah.”
For Muslim theologians, jihad is a religious duty that unites the Muslim community together, imposing on individual different obligations, according to circumstances.
In his book The Laws of Islamic Governance, (Abu’l-Hasan al-Mawardi, al-Ahkam as-Sultaniyyah, The Laws of Islamic Governance, transl. by Asadullah Yate, Ta-Ha Publishers Ltd. London, 1996) Mawardi (d. 1058) a renowned jurist, examines in his chapter “The Amirate of Jihad” the characteristics of Islamic lands in relation to its tax assessment and to its population. Since all Islamic lands, except Arabia, were conquered by jihad, he examines several war situations. First he expounds the aim of jihad and the types of enemies of the dar al-harb. Who are the enemies, one may ask?
The enemies of the dar al-harb, he says, are of two sorts:
1. Those whom the call of Islam has reached, but they have refused it and have taken up arms:
“The amir of the army has the option of fighting them in one of two ways, that is in accordance with what he judges to be in the best interests of the Muslims and most harmful to the mushrikun (infidels, polytheists): the first, to harry them from their houses and to inflict damage on them day and night, by fighting and burning, or else to declare war and combat them in ranks.” (Mawardi 60)
2. Those whom the invitation to Islam has not reached. If they still refuse to accept Islam after it has been explained to them, “war is waged against them and they are treated as those whom the call has reached.” (Mawardi 60)
He distinguished three war situations:
1. The enemies accept to convert to Islam, in this case they and their land become part of dar al-Islam.
2. The enemies are vanquished but they refuse to convert, “in which case their women and children are taken prisoner, and their wealth is taken as booty and those who are not made captive are put to death. As for the captives, the amir has the choice of taking the most beneficial action of four possibilities: the first, to put them to death by cutting their necks; the second, to enslave them and apply the laws of slavery regarding their sale or manumission; the third, to ransom them in exchange for goods or prisoners; and fourth, to show favor to them and pardon them. Allah, may He be exalted, says, ‘When you encounter those who deny [the Truth] then strike [their] necks’” (Mawardi 76, quotation and brackets in the text).
3. “The enemy make a payment in return for peace and reconciliation.”
Mawardi here distinguishes two cases: 1. Payment is made immediately and is treated like booty, “it does, however, not prevent a jihad being carried out against them in the future.” (Mawardi 76). 2. Payment is made yearly and will “constitute an ongoing tribute by which their security is established.” Reconciliation and security last as long as the payment is made. If the payment ceased, the war resumes.
A treaty of reconciliation can only last for four months; it may be renewable but must not exceed 10 years. Islamic law prohibits the killing of children, women, the elderly and priests if they have not fought.
In another chapter “The Division of the Fay and the Ghaneemah” (booty), Mawardi examines the regulations pertaining to the land taken from the infidels. Those lands, he says, are of three sorts:
1. Land “seized by force and violence, when its inhabitants abandon it by their own deaths, or they are taken captive, or they emigrate.”
2. Land acquired from them “without violence because they have abandon it out of fear.”
3. Land taken through treaty. In this case he examines two possibilities: either the infidels convert or they pay the poll tax and their life and belongings are protected (Mawardi 200-01).
This is the origin of the system of dhimmitude. The native infidel population must recognize Islamic ownership on their land, submit to Islamic law and accept to pay the poll tax. In return, their fundamental rights to life and security are recognized by a treaty, the dhimma, a treaty of submission, which guarantees their rights.
We see therefore that dhimmitude is the outcome of a war that ends in three ways: conversion; tribute for peace; submission and poll tax. The basic element of dhimmitude is a land expropriation through a pact: land for peace. The vanquished populations were protected, providing they recognized the Islamic ownership on their lands and that they submit to Muslim authority. Protection is abolished if they refuse to pay the poll tax, if they blaspheme or if they rebel and ally themselves with the dar al-harb.
The characteristics of dhimmitude are numerous. Only a few will be mentioned here. They concern the prohibition of arms for the vanquished non-Muslims (dhimmis), of church bells, the restrictions concerning the building and restoration of churches and synagogues, the inequality between Muslims and non-Muslims in regard to taxes, offences and penal law, the refusal of dhimmi testimonies by Muslim courts, the obligation for Jews and Christians to wear special clothes, their humiliation and abasement.
In practice, dhimmis suffered, at periods, from slavery (devshirme for Christians), abductions, deportations. In some regions the legislation was more severe, like for instance in Morocco, Persia, Yemen or in remote countries. In others, like certain European provinces of the Ottoman Empire, it was attenuated.
These are the classical interpretations of jihad and dhimmitude, as they were written down by Muslim theologians and jurists in the Middle Ages. Today most Muslims probably, do not know them.
The principle of toleration initiated by the system of dhimmitude is opposed to the values expressed by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Those latter stress the equality of all human beings and the inalienability of their rights, whereas the principle of protection emerges from a war of conquest. It concedes limited rights to the vanquished, asserts conditions and can be revoked by the dominant group.
For its time, the system of dhimmitude had its positive and negative aspects, which cannot be discussed now.
It main features were set in the eighth to ninth centuries. Dhimmitude was abolished during the 19th and 20th centuries under European pressure or by colonization. However we see now the return of the spirit of jihad, in the wars in Sudan, the Philippines, Indonesia, Algeria, Israel and in global terrorism. Non-Muslim minorities suffer also from grave discriminations in Iran, Egypt, Pakistan and in countries, which apply the shari’a law or whose constitution recognize that the shari’a is the main source of law.
This latest is lifted, without attribution, from Joan Peters’ “From Time Immemorial”, a book that has been totally discredited. Nomi, if you feel compelled to post this tripe, please, quote a snippet and provide a link rather than posting a way too lengthy diatribe without the proper attribution.
If you continue to do this I will report you for abuse, for failing to attribute the words of others that you post and for quoting much more than is allowed under fair use principles. I dislike your position and beliefs but I acknowledge your right to express your views in accordance with Phil’s ground rules. You would be much better served, however, by using your own words rather than cutting and pasting, and engaging in dialog rather than leaflet polemics. If you can’t make your case with your own voice, maybe you should be self-questioning why.
Also, according to Google, this is the second time this long diatribe was posted here, again without attribution. It was posted back in September by Ed_Frias. Is that you, Nomi?
Nomi998′s idea is to overwhelm and grenade any thread that actually tries to consider
the best move forward in the context of history and real politics, and especially in the interest of the USA and world ethics and morality.
There’s a word for it called thread crapping – but maybe it’s not used in the states. Any enthusiastic young lad or lassie(UK only I’m sure!) can do this and do his or her part in the existential fight for the land.
Hm, I think it should be possible to automate it, or at least make it software assisted. So let me introduce my new covert marketing tool and its special per view licensing scheme. Quotes are stored in original form as well as in a special universal language compressed format in the database. The quotes are extracted and can then be run through a syntax transformer, that turns sentences upside down and replaces words by synonyms. A spell checker removes spelling errors and introduces new ones in order to watermark the text. Note that the word “nortorious” in parent post is such a marker. It allows you to google for the source. The clever part however is in the licensing module. This module allows you to transfer a sum to an account, and then use queries till the budget has been exhausted. Imagine this working with a spiderbot that searches out targets based on keywords.
I know, you’re all silent in awe now. I have to admit it’s an aweful tool.
Interesting coincidence that you should write this today just when Haaretz is reporting on a new book just put out by a rabbi in Israel (“The King’s Torah”) which says that it’s not only okay to kill gentiles “even if they are not responsible for” a situation which threatens Israel, but even gentile babies and children. “[T]here is nothing wrong with [such] murder,” he says.
Just some lone nutball rabbi you say? No, says Haaretz: “Several prominent rabbis, including Rabbi Yithak Ginzburg and Rabbi Yaakov Yosef, have recommended the book to their students and followers.”
See link to haaretz.com
Right, being involved up to our U.S. necks in a conflict with believers like this on both sides is just exactly the smart thing for the U.S. to be doing….
Yeah, Sin Nombre, I posted on another thread on this blog today about this same article. It’s so blatant, calling for, and instructing jews to kill goys; this information never gets made known in the USA. Ah, what the hell, it’s not like the USA goys fund Israel’s activity.
Settler Rabbi publishes “The complete guide to killing non-Jews”
link to didiremez.wordpress.com
With a translation from Maariv today about this tome.
tree, thanks for calling attention to the source of the diatribe. You are a hasbara-detector, first class.
I heard about the Joan peters book before. Many hasbara types apparently ignore the fact that it was completely discredited and take talking points from there. The lack of attribution may well be intentional, so as to obscure the source and present non-facts as self-evident conclusions.
There’s of course no point in taking on Nomi on substance, and, if I recall, I’ve specifically requested a better hasbara representative. Really – this blog deserves a higher caliber!
I agree. Congratulations to tree, and Tuyzentfloot for catching the Nortorious typo. Tree is on the money with this: If you continue to do this I will report you for abuse, for failing to attribute the words of others that you post and for quoting much more than is allowed under fair use principles. Not that Nomi understands the basics of law (RW’s oom-pah-pah on Israeli Basic Law notwithstanding).
For the record, Nomi, tree is correct. You can’t come here and pass off other people’s work without attribution. There is a Fair Use clause in this country, maybe not in Israel, but in the US there is. Honor it, or STFU.
Thanks Tree.
The poor Zionist Hasbrats can’t even come up with propaganda that hasn’t been taintied with palgiarism.
Henry Siegman exposed as a liar.
link to camera.org
Yeah, links from web sites fielded and funded by the Israeli lobby? Oh so very credible.
are you kidding Chaos, read some of the links which are supplied by your lefty comrades on here sometime. Sure I admit that Nomi is sort of annoying and tows the Hasbara line quite thoroughly, but you pretend like everything said by people you support is gospel and everything said by those you oppose is utter nonsense.
I’d like it, just one time, where you admit that there is ample blame to go around….
“Lefty?” Red Scare much, yonira? You know it’s pretty stupid of you to be walking that ideological line, considering a fond canard of anti-Semites is to blame bolshevism on Jews.
You know, I’m not really inclined to respond to someone like you, yonira, who bought the non-existent WMDs in Iraq feint hook, line and sinker, with anything other than laughter and faint pity.
Chaos, I’ve never even talked about Iraq on here. Is that how its done on here, just make up stuff and pawn it off as fact?
Chaos, why do you blame Jews for Bolshevism and deny the Holocaust? Why do you think that the Nakba was fake?
Oh? So were you against the Iraq war, yonira? Or did you support it? I’m going to ignore the rest of the stupid questions in your post because, well, they are obviously stupid.
Nomi may be one of the reasons for the low birthrate in the colonial settlements…lol That is about it, no credibility – zero
yonira, chaos does not deny the Holocaust
and stop saying DENY – as if the Holocaust = God = religion
Zionism is a cult. Take your Holocaust worship elsewhere, douchebag.
“I’d like it, just one time, where you admit that there is ample blame to go around…. ”
Too right Yonira. And women who expose too much skin are just as much to blame for being raped as their assailants. I say we implement counselling for rapists and insist that their vicitms say sorry for exciting them.
Whatchoo say Yonira?
Nomi, CAMERA is a discredited outfit in our eyes. It massages. It lies. Everyone is too bored to go into the reasons, which have been discussed ad nauseum on this site for years.
And I would suggest you go easy on indicting Henry Siegman for anything among American Jews. He was the executive director of the American Jewish Congress, and is held in high regard in this country. You come across as a country bumpkin dissing him.
Is Zionism with loyalty to Israel the only legitimate source of resentment towards Jews in America? Couldn’t there be other issues that could rightfully anger many Americans? How about a forced and phoney cosmopolitanism or ethnocentric politics being passed off as civil rights struggle? Whatever the actual Jewish influence is, Jews are easily identified with each action. A very large number of Americans feel that their nation has been dishonestly taken from them, and scapegoat or not, there are plenty of Jews at the scene of the crime.
I would say Zionism is the only legitimate source of the resentment. It’s the Zionist (not Jewish) policies that have led to the corruption of US policy and economy. Would there be seven times as many Jewish Senators as their population represents without Zionist campaign dollars? Can you bifurcate Rahm Emmanuel’s participation in the IDF from his own Senatorial Seat, or even his appointment as Chief of Staff? Would the US army be mired in Iraq without “cooperation” from Israel’s intelligence apparatus?
A lot of the Jews at the scene of the crime, as you say, are victims of the Zionists too, with the rest of us. Although you are right in fearing that most Americans might not be perceptive enough to see it that way.
Would there be seven times as many Jewish Senators as their population represents without Zionist campaign dollars?
Hard to say. Jews have been heavily over represented in certain areas historically. Part of that reason has been the extreme importance of education on Jewish families. Poor families would scrimp and save to send one of their members to university.
It is not only Jews that are over represented. The chocolate industry is heavily Quaker – or was. Roundtree, Fry’s, Cadbury. The number of Quaker presidents is another example – 2 – including the evil Richard Nixon – far beyond the percentage expected by their numbers. Within Islam there are the Ismalies of Uganada as well.
Within societies there are groups that make themselves felt far beyond their numbers – for good and for evil – sometimes both. I’m not surprised to see Jews hitting beyond their weight in politics. As to how far beyond what one would expect is hard to say. Jews have also hit above their weight in the philosophy of Anarchism. Anarchists of Jewish origin include:
Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman, Martin Buber, Murray Bookchin, Noam Chomsky, Murray Rothbard, David D. Friedman
Chaos, I’m asking the questions because I don’t fully see the answers. But I don’t believe that Zionism is the only legitimate source of resentment that average Americans could have towards Jews. If Jews rejected traditional America, then it only makes sense that we would also reject them. The issue isn’t a lack of perceptiveness, it’s a difference of perspective.
Careful where you’re walking, Todd. Don’t assume that all Jews in the US have dual citizenship with Israel (in either sense of the word).
But it’s Jews who continually make and reinforce the identity of Jews with Zionism. It’s Zionist policy, but then you get these huge mass meetings of Jews proclaiming their solidarity with Zionism, love for Israel, etc.
If the blowback comes their way, can they claim innocence? I don’t think so.
missed the link on the list of anarchists.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Not a bad little list of anarchists Edwin, and what do you attribute this predominance to? Just curious
Not that it matters much (I have a lot of sympathy for anarchists), but I get the feeling that the Wiki list has a rather broad definition of “who is an anarchist” – including Buber and Kafka for example, on the basis of a sympathy here and a meeting there, or a mystical philosophy that might have influenced an anarchist somewhere on the face of the planet.
Hey, I’ve read some Emma Goldman myself (impressive woman, not great writing), and I’m Jewish. I demand to be added to that list!
I have a anarchist flag Shmuel, I can knight you an anarchist with a few choice words, a baseball bat used at a union strike, and cash (no check) of $9.95…hehe There is also a required reading list.
Aha! The reading list gives you away. No self-respecting anarchist would require a reading list. (And chuck the $9.95, that’s so-ooo capitalistic Just ask to borrow a ten-spot in perpetuity.)
LETS HAVE A PARADE
Not a bad little list of anarchists Edwin, and what do you attribute this predominance to? Just curious
F”d if I know – even though that is more or less what my upbringing was – I was definitely a red diaper baby. After thinking about it a bit I think that the very strong Jewish support for Democrats is related.
Perhaps being on the shitty end of things has produced a whole lot of people who dream of a just world and a better future.
v – I must vehemently (albeit somewhat reluctantly) decline the knighthood, and confess that I am shocked that the proud temporary guardian of an anarchist flag and a baseball bat with such a glorious syndicalist history would suggest such an abomination. Oh, and do you think you could lend us that ten-spot?
Sorry, I don’t think anyone who has looked at the influence of Jewish Americans over US foreign policy and domestic policy( Immigration) would say that this 2% of the USA , by their organized and funded clout, is not heavily impacting negatively on all Americans. Is it for the good of all Americans, for the good of humanism?
“Careful where you’re walking, Todd. Don’t assume that all Jews in the US have dual citizenship with Israel (in either sense of the word). ”
I believe that it’s reasonable to assume that the Jewish sense of being different or superior is an issue whether or not there is support of Israel–that’s really what I’m driving at when it comes to politics. I don’t intend to harm to anyone, or to come off as abrasive, but I don’t really care about anti-Semitism. Many people don’t like whites, Christians and Europeans, and I have to live with it when I come across these people. That’s life! Outside of being polite and civil in general, I don’t really care about any particular Jewish sensitivities.
There is more to Jewish political life than Zionism that many Americans can rightfully find abrasive, and Phil has started to hit on some of those issues in recent posts. I doubt that I will agree with his final analysis, but I applaud him for bringing up issues that he could leave uncovered with no criticism at all.
The cry of “everyone hates us” at this juncture is sort of a primal cry which is filled with hot air. If the congressman wants to be constructive he can address the real issues at hand which is the lawlessness of Israel and its unremitting brutality of the Palestinians. Otherwise he is going to find people opposing him on the Federation floor, and every other floor of these community organizations. At this juncture many people have just about heard enough of this hedging on the primary issue.
This is not going to be taken care of by further confounding of antisemitism with opposition to the actions of the state of Israel. There is no room to ramp up the “new” antisemitism, which has been made an issue in quasi-governmental organizations feigning “civil rights,’ because there is no civil right to the slow genocide of an indigenous people.
I won’t get into the issues of a Holocaust hegemony and industry which is used to smother the moral voice of suffering people any longer as an excuse, and the faux cry of some raging antisemitism and the approaching pogroms does not merit a serious reply. However the pressure felt is real, and the intent to address these issues is just as real, we can either do this or have it out on the floor of the congressman’s choice, whichever he chooses.
You need to read this shit, especially the Maariv article. I know I’m repeating the link. Read it. The name of the book is actually “The complete guide to killing non-Jews” and it’s available on the web and to yeshivas for NIS 30:
Settler Rabbi publishes “The complete guide to killing non-Jews”
link to didiremez.wordpress.com
And people wonder how there could ever be anti-semitism? Jews bring it on themselves. These two rabbis are so incendiary that I am shocked there’s been no condemnation from the Israeli government. Whack-jobs like this are charged with hate crimes in this country — can you imagine “The complete guide to killing non-Catholics/non-Muslims?” Every ordinary non-Jewish American reading this will come away with the same impression that Jews are baby-killing barbarians, and it is completely understandable to denounce Jews in the strongest possible terms for advocating one iota of this. Is this the genocide Cantor’s referring to? from his peeps? This would say so.
Correction: The book is called Torat ha-Melekh [The King’s Teaching], which is even worse.