Comments on: Levy: Obama has endorsed return to ’67 lines http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html The War of Ideas in the Middle East Mon, 28 May 2012 16:09:46 +0000 hourly 1 By: zamaaz http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-134687 zamaaz Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:46:19 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-134687 Or on the other hand more realistically, after attacking the Israelis, the ratio of area (say square kilometer) per Palestinian population would be much less, many folds… Or on the other hand more realistically, after attacking the Israelis, the ratio of area (say square kilometer) per Palestinian population would be much less, many folds…

]]> By: zamaaz http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-134686 zamaaz Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:43:05 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-134686 Rehmat, that is totally good suggestion for the Palestinians interest, doing that you will not find housing land problems for the Palestinians anymore... The ratio of population per hectare would be much great, many folds... Rehmat, that is totally good suggestion for the Palestinians interest, doing that you will not find housing land problems for the Palestinians anymore… The ratio of population per hectare would be much great, many folds…

]]> By: Colin Murray http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-127634 Colin Murray Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:02:03 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-127634 Does repeated criticism of Israeli government policy and the actions of both its employees and members of the colonist movement, qualify as 'habitual demonization'. I don't see repeated remonstrances for criminal behavior as demonization when each criticism is actually accurate and justified. If they were lies, of course, it would be a different story. Does repeated criticism of Israeli government policy and the actions of both its employees and members of the colonist movement, qualify as ‘habitual demonization’. I don’t see repeated remonstrances for criminal behavior as demonization when each criticism is actually accurate and justified. If they were lies, of course, it would be a different story.

]]> By: Richard Witty http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-127631 Richard Witty Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:43:02 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-127631 A factor that will prohibit a shift in Israeli consciousness is habitual demonization. Ali Abunimeh's respectful answer to Q & A about the sensitivity to Israelis' concern about being forced to being subject to violence or some subordinated status, is important as a model. It allows the process of agreeing to disagree, and the prospect of coming up with optimally mutually successful reconciliation. Sensitivity to the NEEDS of the other, rather than demonization of the other. It is the reason that I seek to reframe Israel's identity of what is Zionist from expansion and/or "perfect security" (impossible), to enough and "optimal security" based on reconciliation and treaty. It is a message of original principle (Jewish AND democratic) to clarify among dissenters that haven't studied the history of Zionism from a Zionist perspective, and a message to Zionists that haven't studied the history of Palestine or principles of self-governance sufficiently to realize a humane Zionism. I don't see though how a movement that is "anti" in origination and orientation, can remain respectful of the other. And, in reference to Abunimeh, I don't see how ANY advocacy of single state sufficiently respects Israeli concerns and identity to realize any non-violent prospect. At some point, "non-violent" approaches become functionally violent, as the Israeli blockade of Gaza has not been violent yet, or very very limited, a coerced isolation, but is regarded by most here as at least functionally violent. A factor that will prohibit a shift in Israeli consciousness is habitual demonization.

Ali Abunimeh’s respectful answer to Q & A about the sensitivity to Israelis’ concern about being forced to being subject to violence or some subordinated status, is important as a model.

It allows the process of agreeing to disagree, and the prospect of coming up with optimally mutually successful reconciliation.

Sensitivity to the NEEDS of the other, rather than demonization of the other.

It is the reason that I seek to reframe Israel’s identity of what is Zionist from expansion and/or “perfect security” (impossible), to enough and “optimal security” based on reconciliation and treaty. It is a message of original principle (Jewish AND democratic) to clarify among dissenters that haven’t studied the history of Zionism from a Zionist perspective, and a message to Zionists that haven’t studied the history of Palestine or principles of self-governance sufficiently to realize a humane Zionism.

I don’t see though how a movement that is “anti” in origination and orientation, can remain respectful of the other. And, in reference to Abunimeh, I don’t see how ANY advocacy of single state sufficiently respects Israeli concerns and identity to realize any non-violent prospect.

At some point, “non-violent” approaches become functionally violent, as the Israeli blockade of Gaza has not been violent yet, or very very limited, a coerced isolation, but is regarded by most here as at least functionally violent.

]]> By: Colin Murray http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-127623 Colin Murray Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:03:32 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-127623 I agree with your identification of a shift in Israeli public opinion as a key determinant for a successful long-term solution, whether one or two-state. I just don't see how it is possible for this to occur without external intervention. One prerequisite I think is that Palestinians refrain from suicide bombings of civilian targets. I agree with your identification of a shift in Israeli public opinion as a key determinant for a successful long-term solution, whether one or two-state. I just don’t see how it is possible for this to occur without external intervention. One prerequisite I think is that Palestinians refrain from suicide bombings of civilian targets.

]]> By: Rehmat http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-127571 Rehmat Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:46:38 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-127571 Even the real freeze from Zionist-regime side (which I doubt very much) would secure a peaceful future for the coming generations of the foreign Jews occupying Palestine since 1948. They had their chance to live in peace with the Native Muslim and Christian Palestinians, which they blew-away by using their Zionazi genocide of Natives on daily basis. The only solution for the next generations of the Arabs and the non-Arabs to live in peace - would be to dismantle the Zionist entity and build a single democratic Palestine State with equal rights for both the Arabs and the non-Arab citizens. “Wiped Off the Map” http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/11/26/wiped-off-the-map/ Even the real freeze from Zionist-regime side (which I doubt very much) would secure a peaceful future for the coming generations of the foreign Jews occupying Palestine since 1948. They had their chance to live in peace with the Native Muslim and Christian Palestinians, which they blew-away by using their Zionazi genocide of Natives on daily basis.

The only solution for the next generations of the Arabs and the non-Arabs to live in peace – would be to dismantle the Zionist entity and build a single democratic Palestine State with equal rights for both the Arabs and the non-Arab citizens.

“Wiped Off the Map”
link to rehmat1.wordpress.com

]]> By: Chaos4700 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-127563 Chaos4700 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:17:07 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-127563 Actually, no. If only because it would be heartbreaking to literally watch the best interests of the American people go through the meat grinder in person. Actually, no. If only because it would be heartbreaking to literally watch the best interests of the American people go through the meat grinder in person.

]]> By: Citizen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-127561 Citizen Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:09:21 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-127561 Wouldn't you like to be the proverbial fly on the wall when Obama's gate-keeper and campaign manager discuss this amongst themselves? Before either is called into the principal's office? Wouldn’t you like to be the proverbial fly on the wall when Obama’s gate-keeper and campaign manager discuss this amongst themselves? Before either is called into the principal’s office?

]]> By: Citizen http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-127560 Citizen Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:06:20 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-127560 Freezing new building permits for 10 months to show good faith in peace negotiations reminds me of some big bully letting his heel up slightly, the one pressed down hard on the prone victim's windpipe, and yelling to the watchers in the playground, "See? he can breathe! His face isn't so purple--he just don't wanna talk, the stubborn little prick!" The schoolyard teacher's looking on too, your Uncle Sam. Freezing new building permits for 10 months to show good faith in peace negotiations
reminds me of some big bully letting his heel up slightly, the one pressed down hard
on the prone victim’s windpipe, and yelling to the watchers in the playground, “See?
he can breathe! His face isn’t so purple–he just don’t wanna talk, the stubborn little prick!” The schoolyard teacher’s looking on too, your Uncle Sam.

]]> By: Chaos4700 http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/levy-obama-has-endorsed-return-to-67-lines.html/comment-page-1#comment-127551 Chaos4700 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:27:25 +0000 http://mondoweiss.net/?p=11665#comment-127551 Wonderful, it's another promise the Obama Administration can break to another set of people, as soon as it is convenient for them. Wonderful, it’s another promise the Obama Administration can break to another set of people, as soon as it is convenient for them.

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