Shocker from Joe Klein in Time (via Matt Duss):
The Israelis have been difficult, as always: whenever Mitchell raises East Jerusalem in talks with the Israeli Foreign Minister, the Israeli stands up and walks out of the room. Despite Netanyahu’s momentary, tactical enthusiasm for peace talks, his Likud Party has always favored the de facto incorporation of Palestinian lands into the state of Israel.
Theodor Herzl:
"We shall extraterritorialize Jerusalem, so that it will belong to nobody and yet everybody; and with the the Holy Places, which will become the joint possession of all Believers–a great condominium of culture and morality."...
"We require only the consent of the Great Powers, and in particular that of His Holiness the Pope; then we shall establish [a republic] ourselves–with the extraterritorialization of Jerusalem understood.."
Papal Nuncio Antonio Agliardi: "He will be highly pleased. You propose, then, to exclude Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and Nazareth, and set up the capital, I take it, more to the north?"
"Yes," I said.
Mitchell should walk out and not come back until Israel has another FM.
If any other state had included such a racist in its ministry, the US and other nations would have withdrawn their ambassadors in protest.
I think it’s pretty pathetic that we keep trying to twist the Palestinian’s arm to sit at a negotiating table when we can’t even get our own $3+ billion a year client state to sit at the table with us.
This is really why the peace process has failed — It’s Israel.
Herzl as proof of what? When was that quote, 1903? (I’m guessing)
The audacity of Lieberman to walk out of the room. Who the hell does he think he is? If he is a man, he can take being lectured.
And why do you say he was “being lectured”? Klein says Mitchell was “rais[ing] the issue,” and you interpreted that as lecturing? Isn’t that, to use your own patronizing language, “odd,” Richard?
Because if Witty can parse it that way, it sounds as if Mitchell doing something wrong as well — it’s not a negotiation because Mitchell is talking down to Lieberman (were that that were true, incidentally). Witty’s a veritable expert at constructing false dichotomies.
Its Lieberman that can take being lectured by Mitchell. You misinterpreted my comment. How unusual.
No actually, he hasn’t. You just misdirected by pretending to misinterpret his comment as a misinterpretation of your comment. I think I spell out what’s really going on, but then, I’m inclined to I suppose.
“”We shall extraterritorialize Jerusalem, so that it will belong to nobody and yet everybody; and with the the Holy Places, which will become the joint possession of all Believers–a great condominium of culture and morality.”…
kinda like the offer @ Taba, which was rejected by the PA.
Kind of like how Israel has lied since before it existed about it’s sincerity to adhere to international law, treaty arrangements and, least of all, basic promises. Or is Jerusalem an international city? Has it been since UN 181?
And what was offered at Taba? Tell us. What percentage of the West Bank and East Jerusalem was offered to the Palestinians? I’d like to see the numbers you have on this.
“kinda like the offer @ Taba, which was rejected by the PA. ”
Kinds like that is an old and worm out lie that has been debunked repeatedly.
Taba was ended by Barak prematurely because he claimed he had to focus on the up comming elections. Up to that moment, both leaders agreed they woudl have reached a settlement had they had more time.
Any other second hand Israeli propaganda you want to recyle?
Wow, I didn’t even realize that Lieberman was the main guy that we have to deal with in negotiations. What a hopeless task!
Yep. Avigdor Lieberman — the face of Israel!
I don’t take Herzl at face value. When I read a couple of biographies I had a strong sense of Herzl being a tool for many other interests that didn’t necessarily coincide. It seems the Russian Zionists were the most devious…
And the Americans the most gullible, starting with Truman, the boy Christian Zionist who thought he was Cyrus of Persia who just needed some dough to play that part again. Whistle stops cost a bundle, even back then; now they cost a lot more–Obama, next up at the plate. Gonna strike out too like all of them–except JFK who had tiny IKE creds and so he was murdered and didn’t even get to swing his bat.
It’s really quite sad to look back and see what happened to the shape of the United States. It’s like watching the Library of Alexandria burn in slow motion, and it’s been burning longer still than you’ve been alive — in my own case, anyway. So much potential, so much progress, so much pain and suffering that could have been averted… and now all it’s adding up to is rotting corpses and piles of rubble and ash.
When Mitchell deployed to Ireland, how often did he have to deal with the Irish Lobby at home?
At least the Irish have a modicum of respect and civility. I’m not so sure the same can be said about Avigdor.
The comparison to Mitchell’s role in NI is interesting. Mitchell once said that a key to his success there was his “scrupulous impartiality”. In that case, I’d say Obama, Hillary and Congress have all shot him in the foot on I/P. Maybe it’s time he resigned, considering the fact that his own government keeps sabotaging his efforts.