Comments on: ‘only really really bad Muslims will get a fair trial’

By: VR

VR — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:34:54 +0000

I have seen the PBS but not the Taxi one

By: Nolan

Nolan — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:03:45 +0000

Israel has certainly carried out extraterritorial assassinations previously.

Yup. A practice that dates back at least four decades.

By: Nolan

Nolan — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:00:04 +0000

Thanks for the link. I’ll have to watch that.

Have you seen Frontline’s expose on torture and Taxi to the Dark Side?

They’re both good documentaries regarding this issue.

link to pbs.org
link to imdb.com

By: potsherd

potsherd — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:43:03 +0000

Israel has certainly carried out extraterritorial assassinations previously. And while they haven’t officially admitted responsibility for Mughniyah, their constant statements of worry about retaliation don’t really leave any doubt.

The fact that these acts are not more vigorously denounced is just more evidence of the corruption of the process.

By: VR

VR — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:32:52 +0000

As an example, part of the “evidence” elicited to launch the war on Iraq was done by the means of torture, the confession being that Saddam has links with terrorists. This is just one example of what even one use of this methodology of torture produces, and it has always been used for this purpose. Sometimes it is used as a method of denial, to make the prisoner renounce what he knows to be true, or for humiliation, and to say to any given individual or community that the person using it is depraved enough to even use this methodology invoking fear, and say they have the power over you, the power of life and death – whatever the perpetrator of the torture desires.

JUST CRY OUT, CONFESS

By: Nolan

Nolan — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:31:24 +0000

Absolutely. I was trying to keep my post short without going into too many details and tangents. But, the point you brought up is certainly valid and bears repeating.

By: VR

VR — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:18:18 +0000

” The mere existence of the prison at Guantanamo Bay helps the government perpetuate the image that these are the worst of the worst criminals, possessing special skills and powers, so vicious that they pose a mortal danger even when they are locked away in a concrete cell surrounded by armed guard and steel bars.”

Nolan, this is certainly true, but there is more to it than this. It is also originally was supposed to give the impression of some large contingency of terrorists. The use of the process of torture is always to get the confession that the perpetrators want, it is a tool that is used to amass confessions of a large conspiracy that does not exist in this instance. All, of course, supposed to be the “legitimate” credentials of launching the so-called war on terror.

By: Nolan

Nolan — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:17:38 +0000

But that’s the difference, potsherd. Targeted assassinations against Hamas or other Palestinians in the area are usually carried out by aircraft, from a helicopter hovering overhead. It’s clearly within the airspace under Israel’s immediate control.

In Mughniyah’s case, he was assassinated in Syria. Israel never admitted to actually assassinating him. So we still don’t know for sure. And, Syria did not say who they suspected to have carried out the assassination.

By: edwin

edwin — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:12:59 +0000

One of the issues about confession is that not only is the evidence tainted because of torture, the judiciary is tainted as well. No fair trial can take place in any venue.

As part of the torture process, the lives of children have been threatened. Now, any confession made could be said to have been coerced – ie:

If you value the lives of your children, you will make sure that you are found guilty of terrorism.

At this point, if the US actually valued the concept of justice, it would release all prisoners whether it thought they were guilty or not. A confession is meaningless under the current circumstances.

By: potsherd

potsherd — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:01:13 +0000

But the lawbreakers do need to keep their violations hidden and pretend they never took place.

One reason there is nervousness over the proposed civil trials of Gitmo prisoners is that this may thrust the evidence of Bush administration crimes so far out into the open that they can no longer be officially ignored.