‘No safety for civilians’ (the unbearable likeness of Rabin and bin Laden)

on 92 Comments
In 1993, Israel launched Operation Accountability, a military campaign against southern Lebanon. The stated aim of Operation Accountability was to spread panic among the civilian population to cause them to flee north to Beirut and pressure the Lebanese Government to rein in Hezbollah, which had been firing rockets into Northern Israel.

Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin declared: "We will not permit a situation where there is no calm and security in Israel, while there is calm and security in southern Lebanon. Our goal is to make this clear. We expect the Lebanese Government, and those backing it, to control the rockets fired by Hezbollah. . . If there will be no quiet and safety for the northern settlements, there will be no quiet and safety for south Lebanon residents north of the security zone." The "security zone" was Lebanese territory that had been occupied by Israel’s military for more than a decade. The Operation was a resounding "success." Israel’s shelling killed over a hundred civilians, and hundreds of thousands of others fled northward in panic.

In January, 2010, following the unsuccessful attempt of a Nigerian man to blow up a US-bound airliner on Christmas day, Osama bin Laden claimed responsibility and declared: "It is unfair you enjoy a safe life while our brothers in Gaza suffer greatly . . . . Our attacks will continue as long as you support Israel. . . . America will never dream of security unless we will have it in reality in Palestine."

To repeat, Rabin in 1993:

"We will not permit a situation where there is no calm and security in Israel, while there is calm and security in southern Lebanon. . . If there will be no quiet and safety for the northern settlements, there will be no quiet and safety for south Lebanon residents north of the security zone."

Bin Laden in 2010:

"It is unfair you enjoy a safe life while our brothers in Gaza suffer greatly . . . America will never dream of security unless we will have it in reality in Palestine."

In response to bin Laden’s explanation for the Christmas incident, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Andy David stated: "Terrorists always look for absurd excuses for their despicable deeds."

This immediately raises the following questions. First, does bin Laden realize that if he is apprehended, he is likely to be extradited to Israel and face serious and irrefutable charges of plagiarism?

Second, can we expect to see in the near future the following article in the Israeli press:

"When asked about the striking similarity of the Rabin and bin Laden quotes, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Andy David said: ‘Of course the anti-Semites will come out of the woodwork to claim some sort of moral equivalence, but need I remind you that Rabin achieved his objectives, while bin Laden’s hare-brained scheme was foiled by a few unarmed airline passengers. And did I mention the disparity between Jewish and Arab Nobel laureates? And they want us to live with these people as equals?’"

92 Responses

  1. potsherd
    January 26, 2010, 11:37 am

    Ah, yes, the peaceful words of the sainted Rabin.

    • Chaos4700
      January 26, 2010, 12:34 pm

      And people wonder why genuinely compassionate, peaceful people revile Israel. This is the best Israel has ever had to offer in terms of peace and fairness — in any official capacity at least, so as to exclude genuinely honorable people such as Shmuel here.

      • yonira
        January 26, 2010, 12:40 pm

        But these same people who are ‘genuinely compassionate and peaceful’ idolize the Marxist/Leninist PFLP and FARC, along with Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Shabaab.

      • Cliff
        January 26, 2010, 12:46 pm

        Really? Who? I don’t doubt that they exist, but of course the only relevant comment you could make about it is if there were substantial numbers within this group of ‘genuinely compassionate’ people who supported said groups.

        Oh and yonira, why do you come to this blog still?

        link to ynetnews.com

        Check out those comments. You’d fit in there. Bunch of spoiled kids [who can get away with murder, theft, lying, etc.], is what they sound like.

      • yonira
        January 26, 2010, 12:49 pm

        good question Cliff

      • Avi
        January 26, 2010, 1:35 pm

        Cliff, al-Shabab is Arabic for “youths/guys”. So, they could be anyone and anything. Next thing you know Broken Record McGee will start including falafel and humus in the list of organizations. If it sounds Arabic, it must be bad. That’s hilarious.

        Which brings me to the idiocy of the so-called Fox News channel. During the run up to the 2008 US elections, they attempted to paint Obama as a secret radical Muslim by claiming he attended a “Madrassa” as a young boy in Indonesia.

        Now, Madrassa is Arabic for “school”. And I can’t help but laugh at the fact that Fox were upset that Obama went to school and was educated, unlike Bush. But, Obama did in fact go to several Madrassas. He attended the Harvard Madrassa of Law and Columbia Maddrassa of International Studies.


      • James Bradley
        January 26, 2010, 3:11 pm

        I think the Al=Shabab being referred to here is the Somali insurgent group operating in Somalia.

        But its interesting how Yonira thinks that if someone dislikes Israel, then they automatically support groups as diverse as Hezbollah, FARC, Hamas, Al-Shabab, etc.

      • yonira
        January 26, 2010, 5:00 pm

        Progressives have a love affair w/ all Marxist/Leninist groups. As for Hamas and Hezbollah, Cliff is one of the first people to say on here that he doesn’t like them(Hamas) everyone else finds it impossible to fault them for anything.

        And thanks James for pointing out that Al-Shabaab is a Somali organization who was quite popular amongst the progressives in Minneapolis where there is a big Somali population. The sick part is they become more popular amongst the ‘peace loving lefties’ after Somali youth started disappearing from the area and blowing themselves up in Mogadishu (you find that hilarious Avi?)

      • Donald
        January 26, 2010, 5:26 pm

        “Cliff is one of the first people to say on here that he doesn’t like them(Hamas) everyone else finds it impossible to fault them for anything. ”

        “One of the first” contradicts the claim that “everyone else finds it impossible to fault them for anything”.

        I don’t know how many people have condemned Hamas around here, but I’m one of them. The organization is guilty of terrorism and war crimes and they’ve also committed serious human rights violations against their own people. They won the election in 2006 because Palestinians were disgusted with Fatah’s corruption–I for one wasn’t happy about this, though I certainly don’t like Fatah either.

        Anyway, yonira, you’d do better not to make sweeping statements like that about “everyone” here.

      • yonira
        January 26, 2010, 6:19 pm

        Fair enough Donald. I’ll be more cautious in the future ;)

      • Avi
        January 26, 2010, 8:32 pm

        The sick part is they become more popular amongst the ‘peace loving lefties’ after Somali youth started disappearing from the area and blowing themselves up in Mogadishu (you find that hilarious Avi?)

        Your assertion goes to the heart of your mental perversion and inability to comprehend simple facts as posted day in and day out on this very website.

        You live in a strange world of Ziocane induced hallucinations and spin.

        Look at this very thread, you can’t even be dignified enough to see the text for what it is, without adding your cheap, pathetic spin. It must be depressing being you. How do you live with yourself?

        But, then again perhaps the explanation is a lot simpler than that, and your real problem is a reading comprehension disorder.

      • America First
        January 28, 2010, 7:15 pm

        And Obama taught at the same madrassa as Milton Friedman.

    • zamaaz
      January 28, 2010, 10:17 pm

      The ‘suggestive’ warning given by Bin Laden to an intellectual like Sullivan raises an idea to place probably an private civilian into a gunsight because of his adverse political stand will simply give boost to the idea that there is no choice between the all people concerned at all…Either they have to succumb to Islamic power or perish.
      I think this indicates there is no more space for peaceful resolution in this conflict…And there is no more choice among the intellectuals whether they are liberals, militants, or not – as that the finality of every contention or argument is a deadly bloody use of force.
      I am sad, this warning to Sullivan suggests a grim reality, that the aggressiveness of Israel IDF on the other hand, maybe justifyable at all…

  2. Cliff
    January 26, 2010, 12:22 pm

    Where is Bin Laden? How is he not found yet?

    • Chaos4700
      January 26, 2010, 12:31 pm

      Well, that’s easy enough to answer — it doesn’t matter where he is, as long as he is out there somewhere. Bin Laden isn’t just a useful symbol to al-Qaeda — he’s a useful symbol to the US military-industrial establishment. So really, Bin Laden could be dead for all it really matters.

      I’ve come to call it the “Cobra Commander” effect. Americans have been schooled to think of our various “wars” (war on terror, war on drugs, etc) in terms of iconic heroes and villains — instead of, you know, the actual people and the real complexities of the situation.

      So as long as the “Cobra Commander” comes back every Saturday morning for the cartoon show that is American security and foreign policy, the powers that be get to enjoy business as usual as it has becomes since 2001.

      • edwin
        January 26, 2010, 1:24 pm

        I prefer the antiquated The Emmanuel Goldstein effect.

        Muslims I have talked to believe that the US and Bin Laden need each other. Sounds good to me.

  3. Dan Kelly
    January 26, 2010, 12:31 pm

    I wonder how long the intelligence agencies will keep the legend of Bin Laden alive. Americas are so dumb and ill-informed that he could be the bogeyman of choice for another hundred years.

    • Avi
      January 26, 2010, 1:10 pm

      I keep saying that he may be the only man in history to have lived hundreds of years.

      Time will tell, but it would be rather entertaining to watch US officials tout yet another tape of Bin Laden’s in 2050. Although, for their sake I hope he switches to Blu Ray high definition or some new tech. Those VHS tapes are getting real old.

      • Dan Kelly
        January 26, 2010, 2:30 pm

        He actually looked better in this latest picture than he has in the past couple ones. He had a healthy glow. There’s a high-tech medical team in a cave in Pakistan’s North West Frontier Province on the Afghan border that’s doing wonders for those suffering from kidney ailments. And they have a tanning spa, too. I might fly out myself for a check-up.

  4. Dan Kelly
    January 26, 2010, 12:31 pm

    The Underwear Bomber case indicates that whoever is behind these bomb scares is laughing at our gullibility.

    How realistic is it that al-Qaida, an organization that allegedly pulled off the most fantastic terror attack in world history, would in these days of heightened security choose for an attack on an airliner a person who is the most conspicuous of all? Umar Farouk Mutallab had a one-way ticket, no luggage, no passport, and his father, reportedly a CIA and Mossad asset, had reported him to the CIA and Mossad. Does anyone really believe that al-Qaida would choose as an airliner bomber a person waving every red flag imaginable?

    This obvious question has escaped the U.S. media, a collection of salespersons marketing full body scanning machines for airports.

    Would al-Qaida, with its extensive knowledge of explosives, have armed Umar with a “bomb” that experts say couldn’t have blown up his own seat?

    It is difficult to imagine a more gullible population than America’s, but do even Americans believe this story?

    link to creators.com

    • Chaos4700
      January 26, 2010, 12:36 pm

      Yep. The Underwear Bomber, in a sane political landscape, would have been chalked up as a failure. As it stands, al-Qaeda gets exactly out of us whatever they want whether or not the actually manage to do anything other then set their pubic hair on fire.

      The “new, improved” War on Terror! Soon to be available in Yemen scented.

    • yonira
      January 26, 2010, 12:43 pm

      Where was this reported Dan? his father, reportedly a CIA and Mossad asset

      • Dan Kelly
        January 26, 2010, 2:59 pm

        It’s been reported in numerous outlets. Search, and thee shall see.

        While you’re at it, investigate Rita Katz and S.I.T.E.


      • yonira
        January 26, 2010, 5:04 pm

        Still haven’t found anything Dan (Yes I am trying to get you to show me some ridiculous conspiracy blog where you get your ‘facts’ from to corroborate this fantasy.)

      • Dan Kelly
        January 26, 2010, 5:10 pm

        The conspiracy blogs are your domain, yonira. I don’t deal with CAMERA et al.

      • yonira
        January 26, 2010, 6:20 pm

        good stuff, so you just debunked your own comment.

    • potsherd
      January 26, 2010, 4:03 pm

      I doubt if the real Bin Laden, if he still exists, would associate himself with such a failed clown act.

  5. otto
    January 26, 2010, 12:49 pm

    Of course the arab haters will come out of the woodwork to reject some sort of moral equivalence…

  6. Richard Parker
    January 26, 2010, 1:14 pm

    I think it’s unfair to compare Rabin and bin Laden, since both are very dead.

    However, had Rabin survived he would have prevented the first term of one Netanyahu, which would have been a Good Thing. Instead, his absence made the contest for the succeeding Israeli PM a contest between the miserable Peres and Netanyahu.

    Netanyahu co-opted a number of American neocons (or they volunteered) to write ‘A Clean Break’ that led directly to ‘Project for a New American Century’ written by much the same people, that uncannily included the statement “Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor” It also advocated a war on Iraq.

    Both events happened.

    Rabin’s assassination immediately cast gloom over the optimism that followed the Oslo Accords, which hasn’t been recovered in the following 15 years.

    Had Rabin lived, it is very possible that a two-state solution would be in existence now.

    Had bin Laden not died, we would have had to invent him, as we have (see the ludicrous bin Laden tapes). He is the Emmanuel Goldstein of the New American Century.

  7. Richard Witty
    January 26, 2010, 1:19 pm

    You have real audacity, real chutzpah to make that parallel, and Phil/Adam have real negligence to publish it.

    There is some kind of qualitative difference between addressing the status of one’s own land, that a state is responsible for defending from terror and other aggression against civilians, and the opportunistic statement of “solidarity” with Palestinians.

    I guess it sounded cute to you that similar words were used, but there are only what 30,000 English words in the language, so inevitably some of their usage would sound similar.

    • Cliff
      January 26, 2010, 1:27 pm

      Excuse me?

      There is some kind of qualitative difference between addressing the status of one’s own land, that a state is responsible for defending from terror and other aggression against civilians, and the opportunistic statement of “solidarity” with Palestinians.

      What a fanatically hateful thing to say Witty.

      The Palestinians and the Lebanese have suffered tremendously because of Israeli aggression.

      The Palestinians are occupied and colonized.

      Simply because a Hamas official or Bin Laden or WHOEVER, convey a similar eye-for-an-eye statement does not erase the realities of the conflict.

      Your implication is that one must be a State representative to issue such a statement?

      Absurd. Anyone can issue such a statement. It should be judged on it’s own validity.

      You simply do not want to recognize Palestinians or Lebanese or any ‘enemy population’ as having the same basic rights as Israelis and Zionists.

      Furthermore, Israel is colonizing other peoples’ land. It invades other peoples’ land.

      Do you think that other, more reputable characters, have not uttered words similar to that of Bin Laden?

      Would you then, cite Bin Laden to defame them? Or would you cite an Israeli leader?

      You’re simply being, opportunistic, partisan, and above all – racist.

      • Cliff
        January 26, 2010, 1:32 pm

        Let me also ask you to cite the exact quote of the Hamas official, who you paraphrased to me in a previous exchange.

        Palestinians and Lebanese have every right to issue these statements. They have too.

        Just because Bin Laden is echoing these sentiments does not degrade the validity of the message nor the RIGHT of an occupied/colonized people to RESIST!

        Hence, why your vision for Two-States will not work. You do not want reconciliation or justice or accountability.

        You are simply opportunistic. You realize the project is virtually over. That any further colonization is too much risk, and that now is the time to strategically pull out.

        Israelis have stolen a lot from the Palestinians. In doing so, they have brutalized them for decades.

        You do not acknowledge this. It’s missing from your commentary. And it shows up nowhere in the formation of your vision for a solution.

        At least you show the sincere viewers, what ‘liberal’ Zionism really means and why One-State is the way for justice and equality.

      • Avi
        January 26, 2010, 1:48 pm

        As usual, Dick revels his true nature. It almost seems as though one has to prod him to get him to speak his mind or to be honest.

        Say, Dick, is the only difference between a state and a terror organization the mere fact that the former is internationally recognized as legitimate? How is that legitimacy gained? Well, now days it’s usually through the UN. So, all it takes for a terrorist state to be deemed legitimate and therefore justified in its wholesale slaughter of civilians is that approval at the UN, right?

        If the UN had to reconvene today and vote on Israel’s legitimacy as a political entity, as a state in the international political arena, do you think it will pass with flying colors, or will it be rejected?

        And let’s not forget that during the British mandate of Palestine the Irgun was considered a “terrorist organization” by the British Crown.

        Do you know WHO was a member of the Irgun high command? None other than Menachem Begin. He became the “legitimate” prime minister of the state of Israel.

      • Richard Witty
        January 26, 2010, 2:35 pm

        You guys did read that Hezbollah was shelling northern Israeli towns?

        Self-defense is very very different from solidarity of Bin Laden to Palestine, opportunistic.

      • James Bradley
        January 26, 2010, 3:15 pm

        Did you ask yourself why Hezbollah was shelling Israel?

        Did you forget that Israel was at the time subjecting southern Lebanon to a brutal military occupation?

        I love how you gloss over the important details.

      • yonira
        January 26, 2010, 6:24 pm

        when? Israel withdrew from So Lebanon in 2000.

      • James Bradley
        January 26, 2010, 6:51 pm

        Yonira really?

        When Rabin made the comments it was in 1993, one of the most brutal periods of the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon.

        Also, Israel has yet to fully withdraw from Lebanon, continues to violate Lebanese airspace, continues to deny giving the maps of all the areas they land mined during the 18 year occupation and the coordinates for the millions of cluster munitions it lobbed in the closing days of the 2006 war, continues to hold Lebanese prisoners, etc.

        Seriously, think before you post.

      • Chaos4700
        January 26, 2010, 9:33 pm

        You’re asking the impossible of yonira, Mr. Bradley. Best to just ask him to pause. At least that will slow him down.

    • David Samel
      January 26, 2010, 4:47 pm

      Richard – I draw a parallel between inflicting lethal violence on ordinary civilians and inflicting lethal violence on ordinary civilians. You, on the other hand, give a pass to the murderer who has won an election. Osama’s statement re Palestine may very well be “opportunistic,” but that does not affect the similarity of thinking that killing civilians is appropriate to make a point. Such acts are morally reprehensible, whether implemented by Osama, Rabin, Bush, Truman, Hamas or Hezbollah. You ignore Israel’s very long and consistent history of targeting civilians simply because you want to think of Israelis as nice Jewish boys. The only position of inegrity is to apply the same standards of behavior to all. If one side’s attacks on civilians is murder or attempted murder, the other’s deadly attacks are not mere “excesses” to be excused as unfortunate but necessary tragedies. There is nothing at all “cute” about the similarities in language; they reflect identical reasoning and are equally repulsive.

      • Richard Witty
        January 26, 2010, 10:33 pm

        Its an absurd parallel. A “nazi” comment, pretending to be substantive.

        Write a poem with those remote connections. Invite some true believers to chant amen.

        Opportunistic is the right word.

      • Chaos4700
        January 26, 2010, 11:04 pm

        You’re so full of shit, Witty, it’s a miracle you don’t have corn growing out of your ears. That’s your best rebuttal? It’s like somebody smoothed out all the cuss words out of one of yonira’s posts, and that’s it.

  8. Rowan
    January 26, 2010, 1:38 pm

    Hello again, people. I would propose that Mutallab was a ‘patsy’, that is to say, a brainless cog of he knew now what — that is, assuming the person who tried to set his own pants on fire really was Mutallab, not some even more anonymous stand-in. My own view is that the original al Qaeda was a CIA accessory, and I for one have compiled plenty of old Internet posts about how al Qaeda fought alongside other CIA-recruited anti-communist outfits against Serbia during the Kosovo war in the 1990s. At that time, even the Iranian Revolutionary Guards were part of this generally CIA-coordinated machinery, and I have the impression that they would be to this day if Israel had not slapped a blanket veto on all covert cooperation with Iran by the US after 9/11, taking advantage of the general hysteria in US counter-terror circles. And, yes, Israel has the power to do this.

    In fact, though this is a separate proposition, I would say ‘al Qaeda’ is still a CIA accessory; it certainly has a great habit of popping up wherever it is strategically useful for the US to have a pretext to invade. As for bin Laden himself, he is widely understood to have died in December 2001. People who speak Arabic have stated from time to time that the term ‘al qaeda’ actually means ‘the toilet’. I am not qualified to assess this claim, but I’m sure someone here can do it.

    • Cliff
      January 26, 2010, 1:40 pm

      hey Rowan, long time

      • Rowan
        January 26, 2010, 2:31 pm

        Hi, Cliff. I hope everyone is well. The commenting population doesn’t seem to have changed much: 50% hasbara clones, with R Witty playing a pretended mediating role, etc. But the site machinery seems a lot more streamlined — WordPress gear, obviously, that’s why it has my old photo.

      • Tuyzentfloot
        January 26, 2010, 3:44 pm

        Hello Rowan. Help yourself to the coffee, you know where it is. Or was that tea.

      • Rowan
        January 26, 2010, 11:37 pm

        Coffee in the early wee hours, until I’m fully cranked up, and tea thereafter. Living on the Internet plays hell with my sleep patterns. ‘Tuyzentfloot’ sounds like a yiddish word. I bet it means something too. But anyway, does ‘al Qaeda’ really mean ‘the toilet’ in Arabic, or does it not? Someone here must know.

        I have been contacting witches, on the astral plane. It really works, but I have noticed a funny thing: the witches I meet (astrally) seem to run away when I mention that I am interested especially in meeting Jewish witches. For some inexplicable reason, I think they’re scared of them :-)

      • Tuyzentfloot
        January 27, 2010, 7:46 pm

        Tuyzentfloot is ‘thousand fleet’ after a pirate in a Flemish comic. He’s barking mad, but he’s got this interesting quirk that he’s always exclaiming ‘aha!’ in his sentences, as if he’s got loads of aha-erlebnises , sudden moments of insight. I like that. The serious side is that I care about insight and perception and think that if people disagree it’s often not because one of them is short on facts or logic, rather it’s because of how they frame , perceive the subject.

    • Dan Kelly
      January 26, 2010, 3:21 pm

      Despite a massive manhunt by the world’s intelligence agencies, BL seems to evade their combined efforts, staying on the run. But he still has time to drop into his recording studio and cook up a fresh tape for the likes of Rita Katz and her outfit called S.I.T.E. SITE is staffed by TWO people, Katz and a Josh Devon.

      WASHINGTON (AFP) The head of the Al-Qaeda network Osama bin Laden is expected to release a taped message on Iraq, a group monitoring extremist online forums said Thursday. The 56-minute tape by the hunted militant is addressed to Iraq and an extremist organization based there, the Islamic State of Iraq, said the US-based SITE monitoring institute, citing announcements on “jihadist forums.”

      link to veteranstoday.com

    • ah
      January 28, 2010, 6:42 pm

      al-Qaeda in Arabic means The Base

    • ah
      January 28, 2010, 6:45 pm

      al Qaeda means The Base in Arabic

  9. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 1:41 pm

    Bin Laden in 2010:

    “It is unfair you enjoy a safe life while our brothers in Gaza suffer greatly . . . America will never dream of security unless we will have it in reality in Palestine.”

    Bin Laden dont care about anyone but himself.
    After 9/11 he tried to blame the Jews for 9/11 saying they were upset about Gore losing the 2000 election.
    Do you ever hear Bin Laden talk about Kurdish suffering? Never
    Why, it dont fit his propaganda.

    • edwin
      January 26, 2010, 1:48 pm

      So what`s your point

      • potsherd
        January 26, 2010, 4:05 pm

        His point is to troll this site. Best to ignore him.

      • Tuyzentfloot
        January 26, 2010, 4:18 pm

        Apparently Phil and Adam’s strategy is that if the commenters are busy quarreling with the database dump from hasbara mailgroups the commenters won’t have time left to read the actual topic. I could be wrong.

      • potsherd
        January 26, 2010, 7:18 pm

        If the commenters would simply ignore the trolls, the threads wouldn’t so quickly grow too long to read.

    • UNIX
      January 27, 2010, 3:23 am

      Where can I also find a website like this one to learn about the Kurdish issue? Is that a hot topic? Do people on this website support freedom and state for Kurds? Be really interested to learn more.

  10. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 1:44 pm

    Richard Parker, you say, Had Rabin lived, it is very possible that a two-state solution would be in existence now.

    Um, Olmert offered Abbas tons more then Rabin would have offered.
    Rabin was for a united Jerusalem.
    Until the Palestinians stop being rejectionists and accept the Native Jews as the real inheritors of this land, then their will never be peace.

  11. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 1:44 pm

    Richard Parker, you say, Had Rabin lived, it is very possible that a two-state solution would be in existence now.

    Um, Olmert offered Abbas tons more then Rabin would have offered.
    Rabin was for a united Jerusalem.
    Until the Palestinians stop being rejectionists and accept the Native Jews as the real inheritors of this land, then their will never be peace.

    • Avi
      January 26, 2010, 2:14 pm

      Um, Olmert offered Abbas tons more then Rabin would have offered


      Until the Palestinians stop being rejectionists


      and accept the Native Jews

      Native Jews? Muslims and Christians accepted the native Jews throughout the centuries up to and including the early part of the last century.

      It was the NON NATIVE Jews who caused this mess. Are you willfully ignorant?

      then their will never be peace.

      Color me shocked.

  12. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 3:05 pm

    Avi, read and weep. When will you left wing Jews wake up, the Palestinians want all of Israel.
    This is why they keep rejecting the 2 state solution.
    There is no difference between Fatah and Hamas. Both want to eliminate Israel.
    They just disagree on how to do it.

    The left wing has no more argument.
    Olmert offered everything and the Arabs still reject it.

    link to haaretz.com
    Abbas: Olmert offered PA land equaling 100% of West Bank
    Jack Khoury, Haaretz

    • James Bradley
      January 26, 2010, 3:22 pm

      What you fail to mention is that Olmerts deal would

      1) Not allow the Palestinians to have any borders with any other state but Israel.
      2) Not allow the Palestinians to have access to their own water.
      3) Force the Palestinians to rely on Israel to make any outside contact with any other nation.
      4) Completely demilitarize whatever Palestinian state emerges.
      5) Force the Palestinians to accept most of the settlement blocs which are on some of the best land, and force the Palestinians to trade their best land for toxic waste dumps and desert.
      6) No mention of Jerusalam.


      No wonder it was rejected.

      In the mean time the Arab Peace Initiative that began in 2002 is still on the table offering Israel a full peace with all countries in the region including Iran. All Israel has to do is allow for the formation of a viable Palestinian state in the 67 borders.

      Israels response? “Fuck you.”

      • Richard Witty
        January 26, 2010, 10:34 pm

        Palestine has a border with Jordan.

      • Chaos4700
        January 26, 2010, 11:03 pm

        Do the Palestinians control that border?

      • tree
        January 27, 2010, 3:01 am

        The border with Jordan is controlled by Israel as is the Jordan Valley of the West Bank. All proposals by Israel have included Israeli retention of this area, thus precluding the West Bank from having a “border” with any country other than Israel. A person who was well-informed on this topic would know this. It doesn’t surprise me that Richard is unaware.

    • Chaos4700
      January 26, 2010, 9:35 pm

      “Left wing Jews,” huh? So are you out there in the Iraqi desert with a metal detector, looking for those gosh-darned WMDs?

      • sammy
        January 27, 2010, 5:05 am

        lol easy to identify the American neocons, isn’t it?

  13. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 3:07 pm

    The Palestinians and the Jewish far-leftists assume vast concessions would bring peace.
    Abbas says he rejected Jerusalem Arab neighbourhoods from Olmert. Olmert offered Abbas the equivalent of 100% of the territories. Who is going to offer him more? It doesn`t take a Leiberman to tell us that any peace process would be a sham. The only purpose of talks is the Western hope that this will delay Palestinian violence.
    Every Palestinian leader wants 2 Palestinian states, all of Jerusalem and stupid left wing Jews are to ignorant to see this.
    Look at the PLO congress from last summer to see this.
    They celebrated Aab mass murderers, talked how 5 million Arabs were going to Israel and that all of Jerusalem would be controlled by the Arabs.

    • edwin
      January 26, 2010, 3:44 pm

      100% of the territories Man that`s some powerful weed you are smoking there. How about a link.

  14. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 3:11 pm

    link to ynetnews.com
    Beware Palestinian plot
    Fatah uses negotiations as means for establishing bi-national state

  15. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 3:12 pm

    This entire charade is being carried out as part of the mistaken belief that Fatah supports the two-state solution.
    They don`t.
    Abbas may be saying some placating things to the press, but Fatah’s congress last summer reiterated that it does NOT support peace with Israel:
    link to e-fateh.org
    Article (12) – total liberation of Palestine and the liquidation of the Zionist state economically and politically, militarily and culturally.

    Article (13) – the establishment of independent democratic Palestinian state with full sovereignty over all Palestinian territories [no two state solution anywhere in the goals of Fatah]

  16. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 3:13 pm

    Olmert also offered the Jerusalem Arab neighbourhoods and offered to take in a small number of refugees. He was rejected on these too.

  17. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 3:14 pm

    when it comes to rejecting peace offers the Palestinians are numero uno!

    • edwin
      January 26, 2010, 3:49 pm

      Baruch Rosen: 3:05 3:07 3:11 3:12 3:13 3:14

      Watch out ! He`s spewing chunks.

  18. Dan Kelly
    January 26, 2010, 3:14 pm


    A further abuse, of course, is not only that we are no longer seeing the easily debunked bin Laden doubles whose video tapes were “mysteriously” released by SITE Intelligence, the Rita Katz/Israeli group that seems to find them in trash bins behind delicatessens. The “new” audio tape itself contains statements claiming credit for 9/11 in direct contradiction to the real bin Laden videos, the only ones authenticated. If you wondered why the FBI doesn’t list Osama bin Laden as a suspect in 9/11, I think you have your answer. If they think the bin Laden “admissions” aren’t credibile, I wonder who the FBI is investigating or if they have simply been told to mind their own business.

    The terrorist incident itself is the last thing Al Qaeda would ever take responsibilty for despite the claims by SITE Intelligence that they found an unnamed and unverified internet site that confirmed this. Who in the name of all that is holy would want to take responsibility for an idiot who was led onto an American bound plane by passing around searches, customs and passport control in an airport run by an Israeli security company but who carried a “bomb” designed by a three year old.

    Who would be so stupid as to try to pass off this childish tape when reliable witnesses saw the terrorist being led onto the plane in Amsterdam in a manner that required full cooperation from security personnel, passport control and the airline itself. We don’t even have to go into the fact that the “terrorists” in Yemen that supposedly claimed responsibilty were released from Guantanamo under the personal signature of Vice President Cheney in 2007 or that before the incident, the government of Yemen tied these individuals to Israeli controllers thru captured computers.

    I am only thankful that the duped terrorist, or as Lee Oswald had said, “patsy”, was the moronic son of a long time Mossad business associate in Nigeria. Mr. Mutallab, banker, but mostly head of Nigeria’s defense industry, DICON, managed almost entirely by Israelis, may have much more story to tell other than the one he told CIA Chief of Station on November 19, 2009. Do we want to follow former Homeland Security director Chertoff, not only a Jewish activist but currently representing companies selling body scanners to airports and the mysterious ability for someone on worldwide terrorist watch lists to be escorted onto a US bound airliner without passport or search?

    Billions in profits were realized almost instantly after this incident. Companies tied to Chertoff, Israel and India were on the receiving end.

    link to veteranstoday.com

    • Rowan
      January 27, 2010, 1:47 am

      I don’t know if Rita Katz and SITE were behind this, necessarily. Al Jazeera gets these things direct from a mysterious source of its own, doesn’t it? What Rita and her buddy do is mainly browse chat rooms. then, if they follow the usual mega troll MO, one of them posts a damning claim, and the other one spots it.

      • Dan Kelly
        January 27, 2010, 4:30 pm

        I didn’t post this to imply that they were necessarily “behind it” per se. The point is how many people are even aware of this?

    • UNIX
      January 27, 2010, 3:27 am

      Conspiracy theories that blame JFK assasination, 9/11 and others on Jews are appropriate for this website. It harms the image of this website.

      • Dan Kelly
        January 27, 2010, 4:36 pm

        Dismissing things as “conspiracy theories” is as intellectually vacuous as making a blanket statement of “blaming Jews.” Try again.

  19. Baruch Rosen
    January 26, 2010, 3:18 pm

    Dan Kelly, can you READ?
    Someone tell me where do they get the wackos on this site.

    link to pbs.org
    October 29, 2004,

    • Dan Kelly
      January 26, 2010, 3:35 pm

      “Baruch Rosen.” Interesting. Mossad? CIA? Do this for fun?

      I post something at 3:14 and you have an immediate response less than 4 minutes later.

      Text from your source: “Although there was no way to authenticate the tape or say when it was made, it referenced the upcoming presidential election.”

      Test from my source: “The “new” audio tape itself contains statements claiming credit for 9/11 in direct contradiction to the real bin Laden videos, the only ones authenticated. If you wondered why the FBI doesn’t list Osama bin Laden as a suspect in 9/11, I think you have your answer.

      “Baruch,” you sarcastically asked if I can read. I ask in all seriousness, are you capable of (or even interested in) critical thought and analysis?

      • potsherd
        January 26, 2010, 4:00 pm

        Dan, don’t feed the troll.

      • Dan Kelly
        January 26, 2010, 4:17 pm

        Thanks for the reminder, potsherd. I’m a little angry today.

  20. Richard Parker
    January 26, 2010, 8:29 pm

    I would like to point out that, in 1993, when Rabin made his statement, Israel had already been occupying South Lebanon (20% of the country) for 11 years, Hizbollah had only recently been formed, was letting off rockets from that same occupied country, and Rabin had not yet won the Nobel Peace Prize.
    It took two more years for the relevent Israelis to assassinate him, and another 5 to skulk out of Lebanon, almost altogether.

    • Avi
      January 26, 2010, 8:58 pm

      I recall in 2000 when Israel withdrew from Lebanon, there was a big hubbub about the SLA (South Lebanese Army and Israel’s ally and proxy in Lebanon) who stayed behind, some where allowed into Israel with identity changes, others escaped overseas and some ended up facing the Lebanese government in Beirut who considered them traitors.

      But, the withdrawal, although seemingly thorough, did not include the well established network of informants Israel had cultivated over a period of some twenty years. Those informants remained in Lebanon.

      Last year, in 2009, Lebanese intelligence services uncovered a network of spies working for Israel. Some were high ranking officers in the Lebanese army.

  21. Richard Parker
    January 26, 2010, 8:37 pm

    “Baruch Rosen’ has been scattering his crap all over this site today. I imagine he gets his instant responses from an internet sweatshop, manned by imported workers in Tel Aviv.

  22. Richard Parker
    January 26, 2010, 8:46 pm

    But Baruch Rosen also gives the opportunity to reveal the patently false ‘Bin Laden Tapes’ that Rita Katz has been peddling for years.
    She fucked up with the November 2007 one, where Bin Laden is shown suddenly with a black, dyed beard. It is extremely unlikely that a dedicated Wahhabi would indulge in such personal vanity.

    • potsherd
      January 26, 2010, 8:51 pm

      It is explicitly forbidden in Islam.

      • Avi
        January 26, 2010, 9:01 pm

        As Dan Kelly has noted on another thread, in one of the tapes, Bin Laden actually looks healthier than he did in a previous tape. There must be some new breakthrough in kidney dialysis which humanity has yet to learn about.

  23. Rehmat
    January 26, 2010, 9:01 pm

    Most independent analyst believe that Osama Bin Laden died in 2002 as result of kidney failure. However, OBL and his pasty Al-Qaeda has been kept alive for the American imperialism to protect the Zionist regime in occupied Palestine.

    For example, the new Bin Laden audio-tape is also aired by Al-Jazeera, based in Qatar, the most American friendly Arab state. As the previous Bin Laden tapes, this one also originated in Pakistan, which has four modern TV stations, but it had to be aired by Al-Jazeera. In this new tape, though Bin Laden warned his ‘half-Muslim brother’, Barack Hussein Obama, not to act an Israeli poodle, he also helped Obama’s anti-Muslim rhetoric by taking the credit for Mossad-CIA false-flag Nigerian terrorist operation at Detroit on Christmas 2009………

    Bin Laden ‘tape’ is back!
    link to rehmat1.wordpress.com

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