Just as Norman Finkelstein predicted he would, UN Sec’y-Gen’l Ban Ki-moon has folded on Goldstone: "The U.N. chief says Israel is thoroughly investigating allegations it deliberately targeted civilians during last year’s Gaza offensive."
Here is word from the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR), questioning the Israeli investigation:
PCHR notes that the investigations carried out by Israeli authorities do not, in any way, fulfill the demands of customary international law, the Goldstone Report, or UN General Assembly Resolution A/Res/64/10. Like numerous other national and international human rights organizations, PCHR believes that the Israeli system – as it relates to Palestinian victims of Israeli violations – does not meet the necessary international standards with respect to the effective administration of justice. The hierarchical nature of the military, the ineffective manner in which investigations are conducted, the lack of civilian oversight – as epitomized by the wide margin of discretion awarded by the Israeli Supreme Court – and the ineffectiveness of such oversight when it does occur, all combine to fundamentally frustrate the pursuit of justice.
PCHR emphasize that military investigations (often referred to as operational probes, or command investigations), which form the vast majority of investigations opened to-date, are inappropriate and legally inadequate; they cannot conduct the required investigations of senior military and civilian personnel. As representatives of the victims, PCHR has first-hand experience of the Israeli investigations conducted and has represented a significant number of the witnesses who were asked to testify: PCHR considers the Israeli investigation mechanism entirely inadequate with respect to the demands of international law. PCHR emphasize that only 150 investigations have been opened, of which only 36 were criminal investigations; 7 of these criminal investigations have already been closed for ‘lack of evidence’. PCHR alone submitted 450 criminal cases. Only two officers and one soldier have been found to have made mistakes and, in general, the finding of all investigations thus far conducted is that Israel acted ‘in accordance with the law’. It is evident that accountability cannot be pursued through the Israeli legal system. This conclusion is in line with PCHR’s long-standing experience as well as that of Israeli and international human rights organizations.
PCHR further expresses its surprise at UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon’s response to these investigations. Ban reportedly stated that “no determination can be made on the implementation of the resolution by the parties concerned”; despite the fact that Resolution A/Res/61/10 explicitly called for the Secretary-General to “report on the implementation of the present resolution”. Mr. Ban did not express any concern regarding the evident problems arising from the lack of an independent, credible, impartial civilian investigation committee and over the lack of progress to-date. As representatives of the victims of the atrocities committed during the Israeli attacks on Gaza in December 2008 and January 2009, PCHR is shocked and appalled by this lack of responsibility. The Secretary General has the duty to ensure, through UN mechanisms, accountability for perpetrators of war crimes and redress for their victims. If he has any doubt regarding the credibility of the methods or results of the investigations – which he should, due to the fact that Israel did not establish an independent, civilian investigation committee with powers of criminal prosecution – these should be communicated in his report to the General Assembly, which should then refer the issue to the Security Council. .
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The next step will be to condemn the Palestinian government for having failed – unlike Israel – to comply with Goldstone’s recommendations.
Shmuel, jeez, once again you got it. It’s such a charade. I feel like the arab women who spoke on this blog the other day, to whom you sent a poem; she said she use to come on this blog, uplifted by its free speech in a MSM verboten context, and now she is just very tired and depressed, as nothing changes. I think world events will once again deliver
a curve from what the pundits predict. I surely cannot be the only one who sees the
horrible trajectory of USA foreign policy related to the I-P situation.
how predictable and disappointing.
Guys, did you forget the cowardice of our world after Sabra and Chatila? the same logic can be applied here. Israel even succeeded to change the universal law in Belgium to protect Sharon. But History will never forget them!!!
Don’t forget that the US guaranteed the safety of the women and children of the camps. I hope Sharon is suffering in his coma. Next stop hell.
Oh fucking of course!
So what anyway?
That ain’t gonna fix the Israeli PR machine. It makes it look even more nefarious, more corrupt and slimier.
People around the world know how the Israelis are. They ain’t gonna change their minds overnight because of this. They also know that armed resistance is fully justified especially under such mounting strangulation.
Hey, not only Finkelstein predicted this, “I want you to remember this post” –
Goldstone explains why Israel is being singled out (after South Africa and Serbia) – see January 31, 2010 at 12:42 pm
People ask, how can you be so sure in advance? It is because I know the nature of the beast. If you look throughout my blog, in advance, sometimes way in advance, the game is called (on numerous subjects). Time to wake up.
For those who do not like to follow links –
“Normative rules are determined by power relations. Those with power determine what is legal and illegal. They besiege the weak in legal prohibitions to prevent the weak from resisting. For the weak to resist is illegal by definition. Concepts like terrorism are invented and used normatively as if a neutral court had produced them, instead of the oppressors. The danger in this excessive use of legality actually undermines legality, diminishing the credibility of international institutions such as the United Nations. It becomes apparent that the powerful, those who make the rules, insist on legality merely to preserve the power relations that serve them or to maintain their occupation and colonialism.”
“I have often been asked by policy analysts, policy-makers and those stuck with implementing those policies for my advice on what I think America should do to promote peace or win hearts and minds in the Muslim world. It too often feels futile, because such a revolution in American policy would be required that only a true revolution in the American government could bring about the needed changes.”
GAZA: THE LOGIC OF COLONIAL POWER
what should also be borne in mind (in case you’re not completely despairing) is that, according to a study titled “Generals in the Cabinet Room,” http://books.google.com/books?id=KXHf-I3WLVYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=yoram+peri&source=bl&ots=fCO4mz62hc&sig=lORWQqKpjWbvxVQLj1367SBUwGk&hl=en&ei=aWpsS7aYKcWo8AaBlI2CBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA4Q6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=&f=false published under the auspices of the US Institute for Peace, fer gawd’s ache, argued that Israeli political processes are disorganized and corrupt, and that Israel’s military plays an overbearing role in shaping Israeli policy.
So — American legislators OUGHT to be aware of these critical weaknesses in Israel’s system of government — US taxpayers PAID for the information!
–The information paid for says, in effect, that there is no system of checks-and-balances between Israel’s military and political establishments.
You wonder how Bernie Madoff got away with it? He was his own auditor, and he cowed anybody in SEC who might criticize him with threats of “anti-semite.”
Israel is IT’s own auditor, it’s system is structurally corrupted, American decision makers do or should know this, but they, too, are stupid, craven cowed, and too BOUGHT to say, “Umm, no, wait a minute…”
You wonder how Bernie Madoff got away with it? He was his own auditor, and he cowed anybody in SEC who might criticize him with threats of “anti-semite.”
I don’t know if that’s true, but I do know people (some Jewish) who questioned his returns/methodology were denounced by Jews as anti semites.
“whatwhatwhat dont you know what Bernie has done for Jewish charities blah blah blah holocaust.”
when shit like this hits the fan, I watch the Kristallnacht clock: just about 10 minutes to Kristallnacht. Nothing will change until Jews in the US start to get hurt — That is not a wish, not by any means; it is the logical conclusion that must be drawn by anyone who has observed patterns of history. (I’ve done a bit of auditing myself, Richard Witty– recall that ‘predictable patterns’ rubric?)
just read an email blast from J Street, wildly enthusiastic about the success of its kickoff even yesterday, “pro-Israel and pro-peace,” ramp up American Jewish lobbying in DC for a two-state solution.
nice try, J Street, but that train left the station before Sharon slipped into a coma.
If there is physical violence against Jews in the USA there will be mass emigration to Israel.
What’s the point of that pointles remark BDS?
The point is, counting down the time to a progrom on Jews in the USA is counting time time until a mass exodus to Israel from the USA.
It there ever was a pogrom (not progrom) against Jews in the US it will be because Israel is at war with the US. Jews will probably be safer here than there in that catastrophic possibility. That’s some of the idiocy of considering Israel a “safe haven”. Most of the current inter-ethnic, racial or religious violence that occurs these days in the US are the result of unreasoned acts against those who are commonly identified with a country with which the US is at war. Israel is a false insurance policy, guaranteed to fail to pay if the need really arises, andmore likely to create the need than to protect against it.
Liek I said, there is no point. There are no indicators that any pogrom is about to unfold, though I know that Zionist extrsmists are programmed to see pogroms around every corner and under their beds.
The fact that the majoroty of the world’s Jewish populatino choose not to live in Israel proves that there is no danger of any pogroms on the horizon.
That depends on who or what initiates the violence. If you don’t think that Israel is capable of violence against American Jews then you haven’t been paying attention. Of course, Israel will insist that those Jews are “self-haters” or “traitors” or even “anti-semites”, but I can assure you it can and probably will happen. Rachel Corrie could have been Jewish.
I presume you mean by “nothing will change until Jews in the U.S. start to get hurt” to mean a general decline in Jewish wealth, influence, cohesion, lobbying power, etc. That scenario is in the cards for a few reasons; economy hurts everyone, younger Jews are less committed to Israel/lobbying, etc.
There is no threat of physical violence against Jews in this country. Violent acts towards Jews here historically could be counted on two hands. By saying “Kristallnacht” you are insinuating physical violence. Why do you think that it is a logical conclusion?
1. the comment does not recommend or hope for or wish for physical violence against American Jews.
2. Yes, by Kristallnacht physical violence IS ‘insinuated.’ Agreed, historically, American Jews have NOT been threatened by or victims of physical violence.
If point #2 is true, why does the US State Dept have an office to monitor antisemitism? Why are Jews in the US treated as an exceptional category?
“General decline in Jewish wealth….” simply puts Jews in the same category as everyone else. In other historical scenarios, Some Jews have gained access to government and obtained from government exceptional treatment for Jews within that government’s authority and protection .
In other words, some Jews have arranged for Jews to be treated as exceptional within a government and society. Eventually, people in the same society who are NOT treated exceptionally become aware of and resentful of the exceptional treatement afforded a discrete group. By that time, the exceptional group is deeply entrenched in the decision-making institutions such that bringing about a “decline in … wealth, influence, cohesion, lobbying power…” is structurally insured. It is not likely that the people who maintain that power structure will willingly surrender it. Judah Halevey’s writing suggests that rather than surrender power, as Jews in power become more entrenched, they start to question why they should not be completely in charge–after all, God chose them to be the moral leaders of the world. Far from surrendering power, exceptional elites strive for greater control and sovereignty. The power structure resists modification; it responds only to fragmentation.
Meanwhile, pressure and resentment are building in the population that is NOT within the exceptional power structure. As the gap between the exceptional and the nonexceptional increases, pressure builds among the non-exceptional. The only power the unexceptional perceive as in their grasp is the ability to release that pressure in negative ways.
That’s the way the pattern seems to develop. Rabbi Ken Spiro at AISH.org seemed to recognize a sort of inevitability of the pattern/process.
Your statement, “There is no threat of physical violence against Jews in this country. Violent acts towards Jews here historically could be counted on two hands,” seems to suggest that the US has treated the Jews well. According to Rabbi Spiro’s pattern, that means the US “nation and empire” should be on the rise.
But the US empire is on the decline.
How to explain that logically?
edit:
I don’t think your comment makes much sense. You are making the assumption that every Jew with power and influence in the U.S. is working for a group cause or automatically has group loyalty. That may be true for some of the scummy AIPAC traitors, but not for someone like William Cohen. This is too broad an assumption.
You’re right about people not giving up power willingly. But I feel that the lobby might decline naturally over a long period of time, or someone will be spurred to create a real rival, rather than the tepid J Street. I do not believe there will be anti-elite physical violence or outcry directed against Jews, if that’s what you mean. The majority of the elites in this nation are not Jews, and most Americans are too apathetic towards the I/P conflict. If this were going to happen, it would’ve happened already, given the insane amounts of money we give to Israel, and the repeated use of Palestine by every Muslim terrorist including Bin Laden to justify killing Americans.
As for God choosing Jews to be the leaders of the world, this is a misreading of the theological idea of “chosenness.” It has nothing to do with politics – it means that Jews were chosen to be Jews by God. The Torah specifically says this was not because Jews are or were better than others. A Jew who thinks this way is ignorant or using it as a cover for basic prejudice.
Lastly, AISH is NOT a legit source for anything Jewish. They are essentially Kahanists. I have a good friend who was involved with their youth programs for a while and I was suckered into one myself and I could tell you all kinds of horror stories. AISH does not represent Jews. And this quote shows that this Ken Spiro person is an idiot. Has he forgotten about China and India, which have nearly always been powerful and technologically advanced and which are now set to outpace the U.S.? How many Jews are there in those countries? Yet they prosper, and have historically prospered.
Tell us AISH horror stories! And I agree about the ‘chosen’ thing, it’s misinterpreted.
I’ve heard Jews misinterpret it as well. They tie the religious saying to historical Jewish suffering. So it comes out to something like, Jews have an obligation to help others because of their suffering, which was unjust and simply because they were Jews (chosen).
I can’t recall her name, but she was a childhood friend of Finkelstein, and was featured in his documentary.
Yeah, but one can chock that up to lack of good religious education, which affects everyone.
Hmm, AISH horror stories…
Well, there was the cult-like love bombing. They give out free trip to Israel, Chile, New York, Europe (Prague), etc. The rabbis went way out of there way to act cool and invite everyone to their Shabbat parties, where everyone under 21 was given tons of vodka. While we were drunk, they started talking about life in the West Bank settlements.
Then they made a “Jewish Leadership” class for us which was really about “Why you need to be a fundamentalist and ARABS SUCK.” More subtle promotion of West Bank settlements. One time, they told us that we had to always obey God and listen to God in every situation. I figured this was ridiculous, so I said “well, what about Baruch Goldstein?” The guy got visibly angry and said Goldstein was a hero, the Arabs deserved it, etc. Another time, I mentioned my (low-prestige) job and the guy said he could hook me up with a better one in Ariel (a settlement) and said that the whole citizenship and hiring process would take a month. When I criticized him for this, everyone just called me a know-it-all, etc. These guys lurk around college campuses recruiting people for this.
Hilarious: After establishing that you can’t trust the NYTimes here’s Phil … trusting the NY Times.
But here’s Haaretz:
“Ban acknowledged Israel and the Palestinian Authority were looking into the behavior of Israeli soldiers and Palestinian militants as demanded by a resolution the 192-nation assembly approved in November. But Ban withheld judgment on whether the probes were ‘independent, credible and in conformity with international standards. No determination can be made on the implementation of the resolution by the parties concerned,’ Ban said in the letter that accompanied the documents given to him by the Israelis and the Palestinian Authority about their investigations.”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1147819.html
I know that the PCHR had that line about “No determination can be made…,” but Phil at least interprets this wrongly. What Ban meant was that nobody can *yet* make a determination if the *parties* (Israel and the PA) have done the kind of internal investigations called for in the Resolution. *Not* that *he*—Ban—is refusing to do so.
I.e., just that as of yet he isn’t able to report on his perception of the validity of the parties respective internal investigations.
A small nitpick–the story appears to originate with the Associated Press and the NYT just passed it along. Though I don’t know if they alter AP stories when they publish them.
Anyway, yeah, there is what looks like a pretty big difference between the AP/NYT story and the version in Haaretz.
No I think the NYT definitely fiddled with the AP story. Looks very different in the Chicago Trib story for instance, also slugged from the AP.
Should have suspected it anyway with the NYT article (very misleadingly) headlined “UN Chief Praises Israel Probe Of Its Gaza Actions” and starting with the equally misleading if not outright false statement: “The U.N. chief says Israel is thoroughly investigating allegations it deliberately targeted civilians during last year’s Gaza offensive….”
As the Haaretz story makes clear, and as a close read of what facts even the NYT reports, all that’s happened is that Moon has said that both parties have *responded* to all the points in Goldstone’s Report as per the UN’s Resolution that they investigate what their side did. He specifically however said that it can’t yet be said whether in doing so they have fully “implemented the Resolution” in terms of whether the *manner* of their investigations lived up to what the Resolution called for.
Again, the PCHR and Phil misread what Ban said as announcing that contrary to the Resolution *he* wasn’t going to report back to the Gen’l Assembly on whether the efforts of Israel and the Pal’s lived up to the Resoluton’s terms. Just not so; all he’s said is that right now *nobody* can say whether or not that’s so either way. Not a hint that he would simply tell the Gen’l Assmbly to go to hell, which of course wouldn’t seem very bloody likely in any event.
Totally misunderstood here. And now we have a fight going on lower down with people not understanding what it means to call someone a “philistine”….
Yeesh
(on the wild underlying assumption that DEBKA is as trustworthy as NYTimes), this from DEBKA:
The only conclusion is that Israel is somehow blackmailing the entire world.
I saw Saleema’s post yesterday, I made no reply. I can’t offer any words of hope when there is no hope, no light.
Yes, potsherd, I also made no rely; and for the same reason. The audacity of hope rings hollow. It rings out only what’s in it for me, the music of the US political scene–the whole USA is now Weimar Germany, new time, new place. Same old tune. It’s like old Italy before Hitler kicked the Jews off the fascist bandwagon in Italy. Daniel Pipes is the piper. What will Audie Murphy do? Yes, please notice he was an ethnic type.
Like Bronner’s son. What does this mean for the USA?
This is a huge loss for Israel haters.
No smugie, this is further proof that only an armed struggle can redress the Israeli long list of crimes against humanity.
For some “Israeli haters”, this is just excellent news.
You sound a little upset. Maybe you should volunteer for the “armed struggle” instead of sending other people to die?
We should not be advocating armed struggle on this website. That is not moral.
So all armed struggle is immoral? World War II was a massive moral mistake on the part of the Allies? No one has the right of self-defense? Or is it only some people who don’t have these rights? Those who have been allocated lesser or no rights have no right of self defense either, I guess. Its a great (but immoral) system, if you happen to be the oppressor.
are you advocating for violence against Jews?
Are you really that obtuse or are you just playacting? How did you get from my point that not all armed struggle is necessarily immoral that I am advocating violence against Jews? I advocate for justice and equality and human rights. Its great if they can be attained without violence, but its rather easy and unthinking for those who aren’t denied their rights to claim that it is only immoral for those denied their rights to resort to violence, when those that deny those rights use violence on a daily basis.
The problem is not with anyone’s ethnicity or religion, its with the immoral privileges and prerogatives that some subscribe to their own affinity group but deny to those of the “other”. And Jews, per se, are no more immune or exempt from that shortcoming than anyone else, as Israel so aptly proves.
Is your point here simply to derail the discussion, because you seem to be quick to take offense and redirect it around your feelings and misunderstandings?
BSD is an instigator, just ignore him.
An instigator would be exciting – more like a retarded robot.
Cliff: BSD is an instigator, just ignore him.
Of course he is, but you have to give him credit for the “Philistine” thing. I’m thinking of awarding a special Trolly just for that!
perhaps you should be having that conversation with Jabotinsky, who established violence as a foundation for Israel, or with Ariel Sharon –>Ehud Olmert –>Bibi Netanyahu who carried out armed struggle as Israel’s way of being-in-the-world.
If the notion of your personal comfort zone being disturbed causes you anxiety, it might be a good thing: Palestinians live under the threat of armed struggle every day of their lives. So do Iranians, thanks to Israelist propaganda and American congressional pusillanimity. Ephraim Sneh advocated causing Iranian government leaders to fear their ability to feed Iran’s 70million citizens. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/205778-1 THAT is not moral.
Ok, I suggest people report BSD now.
First, no ‘armed struggle’ is legitimate, according to him. Then because the struggle would be against Israel, hence Israeli soldiers, hence mostly Jews – he straw mans it to ‘you advocating for violence against Jews?’
I’m sick of his instigating. The guy is a troll, and we shouldn’t be wasting time with insincere people like him who purposefully make dishonest arguments to derail discussion.
I’m going to bump this exchange of his, and I hope people here email Phil and Adam. We don’t have consistent moderation, but we should at least get rid of people who aren’t here to discuss the issue, but rather to purposefully smear the blog.
I’m inclined to agree Cliff,
BSD now’s agenda was made pretty obvious by the provocative choice of name. I am not one for advocating others be banned, but in his case, his rasin d’etre is simply to waste everyone’s time by bogging the debate down in irrelevant minutia and debates abotu what is or isn;t anti semitism.
What gave him away for me was his repeated attempts to play dumb when incovenient issues have been raised. He pretended that the suggestion that palestinians were decendants of the Hebrews was blowing his mind, as though iy were somehow a new and a new and controversial theory.
Err, just Phil since Adam is busy obviously.
Yep, you could tell from his first few posts on the blog that he was a troll.
It’s pathetic how many trolls pass through here. I guess Phil is doing something right.
Expect more of them (trolls), as Phil made the news in the Jerusalem Post, in re the Star of David photo in Gaza:
The photograph of the Star of David was first circulated last week on the Mondo Weiss blog, which belongs to US investigative journalist Philip Weiss, who describes himself as an anti-Zionist. In spring 2009 Weiss traveled to the Gaza Strip and joined a Code Pink: Women for Peace contingent.
IDF sources said it was possible the Star of David was carved into the ground to mark the location – for the air force – of soldiers who were operating nearby. The diameter of the star’s lines was relatively small, the sources said, leading to the conclusion that the star was carved not by a tank but perhaps by a jeep.
(I included the second paragraph above because the IDF excuse was so patently absurd.)
Jewish Star in Gaza filed causes stir
tree: Expect more of them (trolls), as Phil made the news in the Jerusalem Post, in re the Star of David photo in Gaza
The Troll of the Week Committee is ready for them!
Israel is doomed regardless, and even more so now. It’s just that the Palestinians will go down first, before Israel collapses under the weight of its own evil. I hope you are still alive to sit with ashes on your head when it happens.
It is a huge loss for people concerned about justice, which probably does include “Israel haters.” Nice try though.
I’ve been thinking about “Israel haters.”
If our motivation were entirely hate for Israel, we would welcome developments like this. A person who hates Israel is going to want it to become more and more depraved, to sink deeper into McCarthyism, as one Ha’aretz op-ed declared, to turn increasingly away from the ideas of human rights. A person who hates Israel is going to rejoice in seeing it win the opprobium of the entire world through its war crimes, until the name of “Israeli” becomes a curseworld. A person who hates Israel is going to watch with satisfaction as every decent Jew exits the place in disgust, leaving behind only the fanatics and cultists to fight it out among themselves.
I can’t deny that Israel deserves such a fate and is bringing it on themselves. But the Israel that will result will be a segregationist, apartheid state in which the Palestinians remaining will be crushed and oppressed as the people of Gaza are now. This Israel will make constant war on its neighbors, it will engage in a nuclear exchange with Iran, it will likely drag the world into another global war.
The self-destruction of Israel, however satisfying it might be, will also mean the defeat of justice and peace, which are worth a great deal more.
Life’s too short for crappy-headed upset julian, you know how it goes.
My point being is that every swindled “success” Israel achieves is yet another poster-ad for extremist action.
No justice, no peace.
You wanna live in perpetual war? Well that’s exactly what your enemies want for you you fool.
Look at the big picture every now and then if you really care about your beloved Israel.
The armed struggle has many arms. Each year they double up and stretch further. You can’t deny that. All your stupid nukes can do shit about it.
You do sound a little upset.
And God forbid anyone get upset over injustice, right?
It’s perfectly ok and I applaud working for justice! keep it up! Just don’t hard your health (it’s Friday)
Does that make you nervous?
Hope not.
No it’s cool. I just get concerned with all this violence talk, about violence against Jews and Arabs. Thanks for asking though I think you are doing a great job!
There will be more violence, you can count on that, now that Israel has a green light from the UN to slaughter more Arabs.
And you sound a little bit retarded.
My wife works with mentally challenged children. I don’t appreciate the use of the term “retarded”
BSDNOW,
Shingo used the verb ‘retarded’, not the offensive adjective. Big difference.
Perhaps your wife can explain this difference to you.
And in return you can go explain it to Rahm Manuel, Sarah Palin and Limbaugh.
Hope this helps you maintain your moral high ground.
I think it’s up to Shingo to explain how he uses his insults.
It’s obvious he’s using it as a verb.
It most certainly is not!
I guess to an illiterate it’s not so obvious.
What do you want to do now? Play ‘oh no it isn’t, oh yes it is’ game?!
What a joke and philistine you prove yourself to be.
Why would you use the term Philistine like that? Isn’t the whole point of this website to promote the rights of Palestinians?
It’s my definition of you – are you offended? Cos below is what I mean by it asshole:
a. A smug, ignorant, especially middle-class person who is regarded as being indifferent or antagonistic to artistic and cultural values.
b. One who lacks knowledge in a specific area.
c. Boorish.
d. Barbarous.
And yes asshole, go ahead have the last word on this – you are welcome to your delusion of grandeur.
I think you’re an alcoholic. Sober up.
^^^^^^^^
BSDNOW
It’s our intent on this website to ensure Justice for Palestinians. It doesn’t help our cause to call Philistines boorish and barbarous! That is incredulous!
incredulous: adj. not disposed or willing to believe
incredible: adj. so implausible as to elicit disbelief
which?
Both! It’s not appropriate to label Philistines / Palestinians like that!
We should stick to I/P issues and not these really hurtful stereotypes of Arabs.
No, the point of this website is to promote the rights of all human beings, and also to give voice to USA citizens who have no outlet in the USA MSM.
Ok fair enough. Let’s not use terms like Philistine in a negative light, it’s just as bad as saying Jew negatively.
BSD – you’re being a fathead, as usual.
The Palestinians aren’t Philistines and are far more closely related to the Israelites than the Philistines, a completely separate people.
That makes no sense at all. I thought the whole point was that the philistines were from philistine and that they are claiming their land! Now you are telling me they are wayward Jews? What’s up with that?
The Philistines were most likely “sea peoples” from the Aegean who settled the coast of Caanan near the end of the Bronze Age. Philistia was roughly in the area of Gaza.
The Hebrews were a tribe of Canaanites who originated in the hills of the west bank and eventually formed kingdoms. They clashed with other Canaanite tribes and with the Philistines, then the Assyrians and Babylonians came and conquered everybody and Philistia ceased to exist as an entity, merging with the Canaanites.
After the Romans crushed the Judeans in the Bar Kochba revolt, they consolidated the territory and renamed it Syria Palestina, after the Philistines although by that time there was no longer a Philistia. The area retained the name Palestinine, but the remaining inhabitants were primarily Judeans and the Palestinians today are desecended from them.
Potsherd you are blowing my mind. Is that the consensus of the commenters of this website? Is a poll needed? Ok ok I’m trying to wrap my head around this one.
You are telling me, that Palestinians are not Philistines, as the name implies, yet also not Arabs, as is commonly held, but actually, are descended from Jews / Judea ?
So Palestinians are Jews? This simply cannot be. That is too… shocking!
That theory would only blow your mind if you were living in a hermetically sealed bubble all your life and thus oblivious to the findings fo Shlomo Sands or the fact that 85% of Palestinians have Jewish acenstry.
Then again, maybe you just get your kicks out of playing dumb and feigning ignorance.
this just in: Archeologists have uncovered proof that 98% of residents of Gaza are genetically identified as one of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.
details at 11.
Facts are not established by consensus and polls. Facts are facts. Maybe if you stopped carping at imagined instances of political incorrectness and learned something about this history, you could keep up.
The land under dispute has been called “Palestine” since the Romans gave that name to the province as their way of declaring that there would never again by an independent kingdom of Judea. The inhabitants of this land are called Palestinians.
After Rome destroyed Jerusalem as a hotbed of terrorism, the center of the population shifted to the Galilee region. Over the centuries, the greater part of the population gradually abandoned Judaism and took up, first, Christianity, then Islam, depending on who was ruling them at the time. It also abandoned Aramaic and began to speak Arabic.
LOL. Notable sources please?
Probably not a good idea to use terms like “hotbed of terrorism” was destroyed.
One can’t help but wonder whether that has anything to do with this.
Good find. I really wonder what’s going to happen now.
I can’t imagine Israel getting away with another massacre in Gaza. Maybe just sporadic bombing, that won’t be covered in the press. Makes you wonder why they don’t just (only) kill Palestinians slowly over time.
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2010/02/06/wiesel-goldstone-report-crime-against-the-jewish-people/
A little light relief:
Source: Foreign Policy Magazine
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/03/ambassador_at_very_large
Guess that rules out Biggus Dickus as nuncio.
Benny Morris, comparing respective war crimes committed by Arabs and Israelis:
http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/arab-israeli-war.html
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