whatever else is true, once one listens to this, it’s simply impossible to deny that this highly influential American Congressman, devoted to pushing the U.S. to war with Iran, is driven, at least in substantial part, by his fervent devotion to Israel. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, but there is much wrong with trying to force people to pretend it’s not true.
This stuff is obvious. People have denied it forever. Apparently Jeffrey Goldberg and Jonathan Chait have been doing the denial lately; and probably arguing that separate roadways and a pass system don’t make apartheid, too. Eric Alterman has been intellectually honest about it.
I’m perfectly happy to admit my own dual loyalty, as should any honest supporter of the Zionist project. After all, it’s impossible for Israel and the United States to have exactly the same interests all the time, and sometimes Israel’s well-being may have to take precedence.
The day when Jews have a genuine forum on these questions, rather than a Walt and Mearsheimer bash, is fast approaching. The anti-Zionists predicted this problem a long time ago. It’s built into the law of return and the Jewish state, and more than that, the dependence of the Jewish state on influence in the U.S. As Avraham Burg put it, the double structure that Zionism built: the Jewish state, and the "semi-autonomous" community of influence in the U.S. I don’t want to be semi-autonomous.
It’s not dual loyalty. It’s single loyalty.
it’s first loyalty and it’s too bad because israel is a myth being Jewish isn’t
“because israel is a myth being Jewish isn’t”
Wait a minute, pal! As far as I know there’s a chunk of land (with pretty indefinite borders, of course) called “Israel” and filled with “Israelis” . “Being Jewish” is something which only exists inside of people’s heads (whether for good or ill, of course)
Now, let’s push the “dictionary ” button, and look for the definition of “myth” and “reality”.
So are you saying that “being Jewish” is a physical reality, that “Jew” is in fact a different type of human, in reality? There’s an ugly name for that, but I forget what it is…
A big difference – Alterman only represents Alterman. But Ackerman is part of the US government and as such is obliged to put US interests first over Israel’s in the case of any conflict. This is his duty, and failure to carry it out can only be considered treason.
Is there a difference between a Zionist and the supporter of the Zionist project? Until either one emigrate to Israel, ought one or the other or both be considered Israeli agents to carry out that nation’s goals while they remain in the US?
it’s simply impossible to deny that this highly influential American Congressman, devoted to pushing the U.S. to war with Iran, is driven, at least in substantial part, by his fervent devotion to Israel. There’s nothing wrong with that per se,
This is why I sometimes wonder if Glenn Greenwald himself has his priorities/loyalties straight.
“The day when Jews have a genuine forum on these questions, rather than a Walt and Mearsheimer bash, is fast approaching.”
I am ready for this, but none of the supporters of these atrocities want to discuss anything, they want to placard individuals that insist that they want no part of this murderous colonial activity. They want to definitively confound being Jewish with Israel, and make everyone who does not support this garbage “self-hating,” when in reality self-hating is their position. If they want to put teeth into this process by a legal means, if necessary many of us will go to jail. However, we will be prosecuted on the basis of a narrow and racist interpretation of being Jewish.
I don’t need community like this, neither does anyone else who is frankly privileged, and privilege should never be exercised by oppressing other people. these individuals do not care about the Holocaust, they are just interested in milking the image! We do not need and odyssey of being Holocaust survivors to being Holocaust providers.
Any ‘political aware’ person will tell you that thanks to Zionist grip on the US Executive, Senate, Congress, Justice Department, Homeland Security, FBI, etc. – Israeli lobby groups or Americans with dual citizenship or Israeli spies operate freely and without concern in the US. Most of the Federal branches have been (or currently) headed by Zionist Jews or pro-Israel Christians. Under Dubya Bush, both the Attorney General (Rabbi Michael Mukasey) and the head of the Department of Homeland Security (Michael Chertoff) – were committed Zionist Jews. The current FBI director Robert Mueller II, is allegedly a Zionist Jew (an so was the former director George Tenet aka David Cohen)……
Spies in the room
link to rehmat1.wordpress.com
Rehmat,
If you want to argue your points then do so, but throwing out unfounded claims of Rabbinical status and/or closet Jewishness without any proof should not be welcomed here.
Serious contributors here do not appreciate having their efforts cheapened with such comments. So put up or shut up.
Bruce, some people just will not acknowledge the danger of posting while drinking.
good compliment to
How can you talk about Mort Zuckerman’s Senate interest without bringing up his love of Israel?
Several candidates who spoke with the Forward did say that they would be strong advocates for Israel in Congress.
This is “an opportunity to send someone to Congress who’s going to work for Israel,”
Ackerman’s record shows he is all for the little man, except when it comes to hapless Palestinians or getting recognition for Catholic schools’ contributions to public welfare. And, of course, he’s all for bombing Iran back into the stone age. If you ever wanted to see a fervant
hippocrite, it is he, with all his humane sensitivity. He’s despicable.
All for the little man is a successful strategy amongst Jewish liberals. Look at Feinstein or Boxer. They get away with it because they can and the news media shields them.
Apparently, The Godfather of Neoconservatism believes that American Jews do — and should — base their political beliefs not on what is best for their own country, but on what is best for a foreign country (Israel).
This is already common knowledge, but the mere name Podhoretz infuriates me…he’s kind of a singular representation of most of the wrong tendencies of the American Jewish community.
“The day when Jews have a genuine forum on these questions,”
“When Jews”? which Jews? It’s only, at most, a couple thousand people, probably closer to a couple hundred. And “a genuine forum”? If there is a forum through which (and genuine, it must be, too) Judaism can mediate itself, or discipline its members please, please tell me about it! (I want to stay out of their way.)
Sometimes I get the feeling you say these things, Phil, as a form of goading- that is, you expect the answer to be “But Jews don’t have a forum which can do that…” to which you reply “Exactly!” Or something.
Either that, or you have some strange ideas about Judaism and Jewishness. Under whose auspices and what moderation would such a forum take place. The pages of a reformed NYTs?
And the semi-autonomous? That’s your problem, budya! There may not be that many Jews questioning Israel and dual loyalty, but I’m sure there’s enough to get a minyan.
But one thing I know in my heart, is this: If Israel were to disappear tomorrow, Ackerman, Dershowitz, Goldberg, Chait, would use their Jewishness (and societal advantages) in another corrupt way. It’s what they do, just as it’s what many people of other religions do. If you think that fixing or even eliminating Israel and Zionism will fix American Jewish American Jews, you got another think coming. It may not even help the Palestinians, but I hope they can squeeze at least that out of it.
“The day when Jews have a genuine forum on these questions…”
I just keep staring at that, and the gnats fly in, examine my molars, and out again in perfect safety.
Have I missed something? Which I admit is very probable, almost a certainty, but can anyone give me an example of “Jews” (as such) having a “genuine forum” about anything? Look, I love being Jewish, but damn, it is a religion. And our Judaism is an American variant of that religion. That and “genuine forum” are a contradiction in terms.
I have to say, belatedly, that I’m not at all impressed with Alterman’s insertion in this debate. He says:
“Note, first of all, that Ben-Ami was speaking in support of the policies of the president of the United States, which happens to be the country of which he and Foxman are citizens. Indeed, he was speaking on behalf of the policies of every single president of the United States since Israel began building the settlements on the land it conquered (and expropriated) in the 1967 war. He is also speaking on behalf of a global consensus of what is best for Israel; a consensus that includes pretty much everyone on the planet save supporters of Israel’s right-wing revanchist government.”
No, if the consensus includes everyone EXCEPT the Israeli and American governments, and a significant number of Israeli Jews, not just “Israel’s right-wing revanchist government.”
This is the evasiveness of liberal’s like Alterman in their support for Israel. He’s really no better than Dershowitz in his cluelessness about what it will take for a just peace–and I mean to be an agnostic on one-state/two-states.
And Alterman’s honesty about “dual loyalty” also strikes me as being disingenuous. What, he will have to choose between American hegemony in the ME/SA and Israeli hegemony in Palestine? Exactly what interest might Alterman be referring to that in any way contradict liberal internationalism as ususal? Moreover, somebody like Alterman (Gitlin, Walzer, etc.) will never do anything to endanger their own position in the establishment American academy. His analysis is a fraud of a sham.