Last night NBC Nightly News did a moving report on one of the black students who helped desegregate Little Rock Central H.S. more than 50 years ago. Her daughter is now a parks officer who conducts tours of the site. Very inspiring. The mother was such an impressive person, so genteel and articulate; I wondered how much I would have been affected by racism in 1957 to regard her as lesser, and how wrong I would have been.
All I could think about was Palestinians and Jews.
There were a lot of white people screaming in the background of the film clips. The Israelis of that situation. Would someone just interview these white people? Would someone go find them and ask them why they believed what they did, and by what process they changed, if they changed? Do they have regrets? I'm more interested in that part. I want to help liberate the Jews from anti-Arab racism.
Phil, Don’t you have expertise in interviewing? Seems to me you’ve identified the major points for an interesting article. Maybe you’re the “someone” you called for!
I’ve seen interviews of one of the white racist women in the photos of school desegregation at Little Rock, who has since apologized to the woman she screamed at.
I think it would be helpful in these interviews to confront the haters with photos of themselves, the ugly expressions of hate. People can’t see what they look like.
Here, I like your headline, and wonder about the content.
“The Israelis of that situation. ” Again, you’ve just been to Israel and hopefully actually met people. I’m not there, but I would guess that you didn’t meet or see many Israelis taunting at the minorities in the way that blacks and freedom riders were taunted.
There have been very very few racial murders of Palestinians by Israelis. I doubt there has been any lynching or mass organized “populist” fascist leagues harrassing Palestinians. (You’ve sited a couple in heated settings, Hebron).
The nature of the suppression is different.
Yeah, really different:
link to youtube.com
One difference is that racist Israelis have their state’s power behind them, while one spur for white anger in Ark and Alabama was that the federal government had taken the blacks’ side and the whites knew it.
Exactly, the Israelis can channel their racism ‘legitimately’ by military service or just simply being Zionist in the Zionist State, where Jews are privileged over Arabs.
“can channel their racism”.
No doubt about it. Don’t even need to enlist in the IDF. Anybody more racist that Dick Witty who regularly comments here? All the while, his local goy cop and Army national guard slave for him, and he’s quite privileged, no? Yet he doesn’t feel he owes anything–his major dispute with Phil. Phil’s at least honest. Not injected with Ziocaine.
You have extreme difficulty believing that Israelis can be racist, but no difficulty believing that white (non-Jewish) Americans could be, or that Arabs can be anti-semitic. That seems like racism in itself, given the rather obvious evidence that many Israelis (and their American supporters) are racist.
There’s this thing called the “occupation” and most of it is run in ways that show utter contempt for the Palestinians and the enforcement of the rules is done by Israeli soldiers who often treat Arabs with personal and gratuitous displays of brutality. Perhaps you’ve heard about this? It seems like you would have, being so well informed and all. If not, here’s a sample of what B’Tselem has to say–
link
I know you’ve seen Blumenthal’s videos–you’ve certainly complained about them. Notice anything racist about any of the people in those videos?
“There were a lot of white people screaming in the background of the film clips. The Israelis of that situation. ”
The question to Phil is have you seen this? Not in living rooms, in the streets?
Actually, in the South it wasn’t common for white people to stand around in the streets yelling at blacks. There were tens of millions of white Southerners and only a tiny fraction of them ever stood outside a school and yelled at black kids walking in. Presumably only a fraction of Israelis actually spit on Arabs or engage in similar displays of public racism. In the South it was the government (the local government) which actually enforced the racist consensus of the whites and similarly, in Israel it is the government which enforces the racist consensus.
Besides,Witty, you’re just desperately squirming to find some way to make your side seem less bad than the Southern whites of 50 years ago.
I grew up in the South right after they took the “white” and “colored” signs off the drinking fountains and the majority of my white friends used the n word to describe blacks in private and hated Martin Luther King and so on, but they would not have made a public spectacle of themselves, for the most part.
“hated Martin Luther King”
This was right after his death. I distinctly remember one kid saying “I’m glad he’s dead.” Again, not something many people would have said in front of TV cameras by that time (around 1968-69). By that time, publicly most whites claimed not to be racist, but what their children said was less self-censored.
Witty, you need to hang your head in shame.
Witty, Witty, Witty
About not seeing Israelis taunting at “minorities”….. running Palestinians out of their houses, moving into their homes once you’ve forced them out; attaching them when they try to farm their land; spitting on Palestinian women, harassing internationals are just a few things “seen” What do you think these examples are? Israeli’s embracing the minorities ?
Israeli’s are committing racial murders…there are Israeli terrorists …. in masses and organized (they’ve been given organizational names… the IDF and Border Patrol….in fact they even wear uniforms! and damned if they don’t have the law on their side ….always the military court of law…almost always the Israeli courts and laws.
Sounds a good bit like the south I heard about and knew as a child.
Witty where do you live???
Phil,
What do you think? Do you think that Jews as a rule harrass minorities. Do you think that Israelis do?
I don’t know. Do you?
If you had a shred of a clue as to what you’re talking about you wouldn’t be posting such inane statements.
First and foremost, forget the Palestinians under occupation for a second. If you want to learn about institutionalized, systematic discrimination and bigotry go talk to the Palestinian minority in Israel who are Israeli citizens.
But, you refuse to do so because your mind is set on ignoring such issues. Don’t take anyone’s word on this board. Just grab yourself by the bootstraps and go spend a week in Israel, talk to Arabs (Palestinians). They’re human too, you know, and they don’t bite.
Go ask them what kind of discrimination they face on a daily basis. Don’t just sit comfortably 7000 miles away badgering Phil and others who HAVE been there and know what they’re talking about.
Really. Is your commentary based on lack of information, or is it based on a refusal to accept such a reality? After all, much in the same way you “object” to such titles or articles on the basis that they are “extreme”, so does yonira object to the use of terms like ethnic cleansing and massacres when the terminology fits.
If either of you were on the receiving end of such policies, you would be using far more “extreme” language and the colonist movement along with the fascists in the current Israeli government are a testament to that.
No, even in the Middle Ages the majority did not rule. They still don’t. The Jews have always been the middle man, more privileged than the average, but also subject to
whimsical elite goys in Western Civilization–when the power of the MSM and the elite “nobleman” could turn on a dime and stoke the fire of the average goy against the Jews–why? Because of the real socio-economic condition of all three parties. So what’s changed? What’s the special relationship of the USA regime with Israel, other than the same old story? We are still in the Middle Ages, Dark ages. Boil it down,
I’m repeating:
Witty, you need to hang your head in shame.
There was a difference in the US situation, The laws and law enforcement were enacted and enforced by states…… until the federal government finally moved in…. Israel has laws of discrimination, separate courts (talk about black and white water fountains). They have no Federal system to step in….they are the “federal system”
It’s time for a wake up call…perhaps the world has to step in.
Mr Witty, way too often you sound like “the pot calling the kettle black!”
Can I take you on a tour of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza??? Show you some videos?
No one said Jews or Israelis as a rule harass minorities….
In the US and south…as a rule all whites didn’t harass blacks…and freedom riders. Most did not! Many of those keeping quiet were afraid of the officials, the laws and speaking out.. …I would hope it’s true in Israel “as a rule” as I said before…who is going to step in Israel? Right the wrongs?
The US had (at least until a few years ago when Bush came into office) a constitution that guaranteed, albeit on paper, equal rights for all.
No such document exists in Israel. So, where does one start?
Where do you start with a state that is especially made for one ethnic group no matter where they exist in the world? Hitler tried to do that for Germans. Now, it’s for the Jews–with less common sense right to call the land they occupy their own. Face it,
Israel is on life support, and the oxygen is and always has been “anti-semitism.”
We are witnessing the use of poison gas to keep the patient alive. Something has to give. The only question is, what’s the cost to the whole world–this, believe it or not, includes Gentiles.
Avi, the US had a piece of paper that *meant* all landowning white males were equal.
I don’t know what Israel is going to do. I see no way to facilitate compassion amongst the Israeli Jews for the Palestinians.
Also consider that Zionism wanted the land, and not the Arabs. Sara Roy stresses this as unique to Jewish colonialism.
Zionism is just a catastrophe as an ideology. It has destroyed another society and is still a trainwreck in progress.
The best way to ascertain Zionism’s longevity is to read Roy’s book, The Gaza Strip: The Politics of De-Development.
You can understand a lot about Zionism, in how it manipulates Palestinian economy.
How can you hold an entire people captive, and continue the theft/colonization of their lands in the modern age – and get away with it?
How?
You used to be able to just murder them all. But the social changes in the world, won’t all that.
The Arab/Israeli dispute is not about skin color or genetics.
Sometimes there is hatred, but not all hatred is racism. Anger can result when you don’t like what people do. It doesn’t have to result from disliking who theyare.
I don’t have specific information on the incidents mentioned in the comments. But I need to point out that even evidence of crime is not evidence of racism. When one Arab kills another for selling land to a Jew, it isn’t because of racist attitudes against Arabs.
Americans sometimes see the Arab/Israeli conflict as being like civil rights, Brits liken it to the Irish “Troubles”, and South Africans to Apartheid. All of them are being mentally lazy. I suppose the Russians might see it like their conflict with Chechnya, and the Indians with the Kashmir situation and Pakistan. And some compare it the the Hatfields & McCoys. Still not right. It’s a unique situation.
Let me guess. Islam is evil and wants to spread enslave the Judeo-Christian world, beginning w/ the Jewish State – a bastion of liberalism and freedom in the heart of darkness.
I.e., Palestinians don’t really exist. They are just ‘Arabs’ (or Southern Syrian Arabs) and the Israel-Palestinian conflict is just a front for the pan-Arab/Islamic nationalists to resurrect the ‘Ummah’ (or whatever).
Do tell, why is it ‘unique’?
I’m sure you’ll present a sincere, nuanced argument.
Oh yea forgot. Israel declared independence and then out of nowhere, the Arab horde declared War, with the intentions of inflicting another Holocaust.
Grand Mufti, Nazis. Arabs kicked out Jews from Arab lands, hence Palestinians don’t get to complain, and anyways they were radio’d to leave their homes after the Arab armies Holocaust’d the Jews.
Israel withdrew from Gaza and all it got was rockets. Israel has offered Palestinians peace, and Olmert made them an amazing Gandhian offer that would make even Megatron weep with tears of joy.
Israel drops leaflets and makes phone calls, Israel sent in lots of aid. The rocket attacks bombarded Israel for years and it did nothing. Hamas is like Al Qaeda.
Am I missing anything?
Oh Goldstone is a kapo and funded by Hamas.
That about covers it, Cliff. Oh, and there was no Palestinian community, actually.
The Palestinians as a group exist now. As a nation or ethnic group they didn’t exist 1948. The people existed, they were Arabs or Syrians or just local to their city or village. The Arab governments didn’t seem to think there was a Palestinian identity in 1948, they took over the West Bank and Gaza without recognizing “Palestinians”. You can’t even find the word used much back then, except in reference to Zionists. The Palestine Electric Company is now Israel Electric, the Palestine Post is now the Jerusalem Post. The Palestinian identity was created in response to Zionism. They have that right. Claiming it goes back centuries is just baloney.
The blacks in South Africa wanted to expand and join South Africa, not kick out the whites. They believed in equality. This made peace possible. The Irish wanted to separate, not take over Great Britain. The US civil rights movement was not trying to overthrow the Constitution, it was trying to enforce it. These are essential differences. While Abbas now says the PA recognizes Israel and wants to live along side of it, the PA is weak and the overall history of the Arab movement is eliminationist. In particular Hamas has a good chance of taking over the West Bank or a new Palestine.
Sorry for the delayed response, I was doing other things.
All situations are unique, but they can still be very much like other, similar situations in many respects. “unique” doesn’t mean “has nothing in common with”
We’re all humans. The political and military differences can be striking.
Think you got about everything Cliff!
Where did Witty go?
What, did you think he was actually interested in a legitimate discussion?
@Richard Witty
I doubt there has been any lynching or mass organized “populist” fascist leagues harrassing Palestinians.
Here you have a lynching in Jerusalem (not Hebron):
link to haaretz.com
Here you have anti-miscegenation Jewish patrols who harass Arab-Jewish couples:
link to timesonline.co.uk
Here you have an anti-miscegenation Jewish educator teaching Jews not to date Arabs:
link to haaretz.com
Your tribal allegiance prevents you from seeing the obvious, i.e. the deep hate of Arabs prevalent among Israeli Jews.
Yes, the equation holds:
Jews = Whites
Arabs = Blacks
Israel = Jim Crow south
Small potatoes. There is more inter-ethnic killing in India, Nigeria, the Congo, and many other places. Is Israel required to be free of all criminals and racists? If a man kills his wife is a whole country misogynist?
In the Jim Crow south it was often the local sheriff who “Disappeared” blacks found in town after sunset. The Israeli government has arrested the teenagers involved. Nobody was killed in the incident described as a “Lynching”. Worse things, much worse things, happen in the Bronx or in LA every day. Teens have been ganging up since before Shakespeare; Read Romeo and Juliet.
The Bible commands Jews to not marry non-Jews, so dating non-Jews has been forbidden to the religious for centuries. Judaism isn’t going to change that for you. And in Israel it has security implications.
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@Richard Witty
I doubt there has been any lynching or mass organized “populist” fascist leagues harrassing Palestinians.
Here you have an instance of lynching in Jerusalem (not Hebron). Another case was the Palestinian who didn’t conform to Jewish superstitions in Acre (he drove on Yom Kipur) and was savagely attacked by a Jewish mob.
As for fascist leagues, do I have to recall the anti-miscegenation Jewish patrols who roam the streets of Pisgat Ze’ev, Petakh Tikva and other towns harassing Arab-Jewish couples?
Your tribal allegiance prevents you from seeing the obvious, i.e. the deep hate of Arabs prevalent among Israeli Jews.
Yes, the equation holds:
Jews = Whites
Arabs = Blacks
Israel = Jim Crow south
link to peacenow.org
In the same time period, there has been more violence in almost any city in the world than the Jew-on-Palestinian incidents in Israel. Do you really want to stack that up against the Arab Terrorism of bus-bombing, killing Olympic athletes, throwing cripples overboard, blowing up pizza parlors, massacring Passover Seders, rocketing and shelling of Israeli towns, and on and on?
Yea I do actually. Israel was killing Palestinian civilians in taxes, cafes, marketplaces long before suicide bombing came on the scene in 1994 (in this conflict).
Why do you say ‘Arab Terrorism’?
We could also include Israel’s support for other brutal (but way more brutal) military regimes like, Guatemala.
Let’s compare the Christian Right and the born-again genocidal dictator Rios Montt, and what THEY did (along w/ US support, and Israeli arms) to the indigenous Mayans to what Palestinian terrorists have done to Israeli civilians.
By all means, lets make comparisons in all areas of this conflict, AreaMan.
I don’t mind that. Just make sure that the comparison is a meaningful parallel. You have to establish a premise that makes sense.
correction: taxes=taxis
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