Obama loves authority figures– who are the authorities? In the Washington Post, Richard Cohen says that an Iranian bomb is a threat to the US not just to Israel and that Obama should do like Nixon and go "crazy" to match Ahmadinejad, and Cohen suggests we lack the power to stop Israel from attacking. Anne Appelbaum, also in the Post, says that Israel will likely bomb Iran and we just have to go along with that because it’s an "unwanted war of necessity."
Both writers slight the threat to American forces of such madness. Both writers rationalize Israeli "paranoia" as a legitimate response to Israel’s wacko neighborhood. Both writers say nothing about Palestinian grievances. And Cohen wrongly states that Egypt didn’t care about Israeli nukes. (As if the countries did not have 3 wars over balance of power between ’56 and ’73). Thus neoconservatism continues its IV drip into the nation.
Neocon = Neolib. A gilded turd is still a turd.
In tonight’s reenactment of the Great War, the role of Germany will be played by the United States, while the role of Austria-Hungary will be played by Israel.
What a tragedy that is unfolding.
These usurpers can’t seem to stop peddling
their propaganda for Israel. If they had more common sense to see.
I wish I could find more information regarding the history of German animosity toward Jews prior to Hitler. It’s not easily found. I was reading the stock market crash of 1873 began to sow the seeds of distrust with Jews in Prussia, but it seems to go back as far as Martin Luther’s book against Jews in 1543.
It was Wilhelm II comments that made me realize it wasn’t Hitler who was not the only leader to feel animosity toward Jews in Prussia.
German society at the time, much like contemporary society in Israel, was actively looking for vulnerable targets to set up their own “culture clash” around which to manufacture a new national identity where none was presently extant. Before the Jews, it was Roman Catholics who were the “foreign” influence in their own homeland (which, incidentally, is what prompted some of my ancestors to become Americans).
I’m not saying there wasn’t anti-Semitism in Germany before WWII — there was, quite a bit of it. But they were hardly singular as a persecuted minority. It wasn’t about the Jews, but rather about finding somebody powerless to hate and persecute, and to organize a political philosophy around.
That would be the same trouble with Zionism as well. It’s not that Palestinians are the targets, it’s that anyone who’s not Jewish — not “reinrassig,” as the terminology spelled out in prior incarnations — can be the target. Hell, even people who aren’t “Jewish enough” can be targets too.
It’s just that Palestinians, like Jews in Germany, and Roman Catholics before them, were a disenfranchised, militarily undefended population that could be easily demonized and pushed around.
Chu, here’s a short summary of a book on the subject:
link to german-history.suite101.com
Thanks for the link. Antisemitism has been around for thousands of years, it says and the Germans used this against the Jews. It’s sad that Israel is destroying the perception that Israel is a place for refugees or victims of persecution from Europe. While that may have been the case, younger people see the apartheid state and nothing else.
Chu- were you able to read any of the 1881 Eclectic magazine?
Also, some of Goebbels’ diary entries are online — shhh, it’s David Irving’s website.
link to ihr.org
Bibi’s conflation of Hitler-Ahmadinejad is becoming more and more compelling: post-Franco-Prussian war, newly-unified Germany spent about 60 years trying to craft a nation and government to fit their needs and heritage; Jewish people intervened almost from the start; Phil cited a quote from Kafka:
mondoweiss.net/2010/02/jews-arent-smarter-i-lift-my-curse-and-yours.html#comments
Israel has been f&%@ing with Iran for nearly half-a-century; so far, like Germany, Iran has kept its cool, bobbing and weaving to deflect Israeli and American blows to its economy and sovereignty, whilst simultaneously exerting numerous, courageous, and intelligent efforts to develop a form of government that suits its own style and needs. Israel has been at the forefront of thwarted or coopting most of these efforts. Israel and America’s Israelists keep pushing; indeed, they are ratcheting up the pressure, not just economically, through the good offices of Stuart Levey in US State Dept office of finance/antiterrorism, but through outright threats, belligeraence, and, without a doubt, espionage.
The world, and American soldiers abroad, remain safe ONLY so long as Iran’s leaders can continue to keep their cool.
god damn hasbara.
edit:
I’m not sure I’d equate Iran to Germany and grant legitimacy to the (false, IMO) notion that German Jews were “strangers” who were “forcing” things on the German people. There’s no need to try to equate Israel’s actions to that — what Israel has been doing to Iran has absolutely nothing to do with Jewish identity. Just ask Persian Jews.
“Iran has developed a form of government that suits its own style and needs?” This is laughable.
In some small way, I agree with WJ. Iran developed a form of government that was a direct response of the CIA, the Mossad, British intelligence, etc. toppling the democratic government in Iran and installing a tyrant. We killed the seed of democracy in Iran, and so to protect itself from foreign intervention Iran needed a strong government — an oppressive government, unfortunately. People seem to forget, as bad as human rights abuses are in Iran now, they were at least as bad (and probably worse) under our government there.
PG, Just saw the previous link you sent to me on Feb 10. Thanks. Will look it over.
I did not write that Iran “has developed…” but that Iran was “making efforts to develop…”
And that is the major point: The west, goaded most recently by Israel, has been thwarting those efforts at every turn. Toppling Mossadeqh was not the last time US/West/Israel interfered with Iranian attempts to define and establish itself.
The ongoing efforts of Iranians to reform their government — with far more courage and self-awareness than Americans have mustered to reform THEIR government — suggests to me that “the seed of democracy” was NOT “killed.” I agree that Iran’s government does behave in a paranoid fashion that I would call authoritarian but not tyrannical or totalitarian. Iran’s govt is paranoid because, well, because US and Israel ARE out to get ‘em.
The biggest question is WHY? Israel is out to get Iran because, harking back to Avigail Abarbenal, Israel is insane.
The US has no real beef with Iran; in fact, most of the measures against Iran that US has undertaken in past 15 years have been against American interests, as it is contrary to American interests today to continue to strangle and bully Iran. Americans would be a lot better off with Iran as a friend than as a target and whipping boy: the world could use the oil, the US could use access to Iranian markets; US and Iranian technological exchange could produce a synergy of untold mutual benefit and prosperity.
Why doesn’t US pursue THAT track to a relationship with Iran? Circle back to the first reason: Israel. Israel is insane and, as family systems therapists understand, insanity is contagious.
And, can you say also that Israel developed a form or government that s uits its own style and needs? Too bad for non-Jews living there or in the OT. Didn’t Palestinians toss down that Zyklon B?
based on very preliminary knowledge/research — Jews had been in Germany for centuries: Jews opened trading posts on the Rhine before Christ.
Jews lived reasonably comfortably in GErmany, fought in German wars, etc. After German victory over France that presaged GErman unification, Jews from ‘abroad’ (don’t know where FROM) flocked to Germany to share in the jubilation and prosperity thought to follow on unification.
Pent up demand/consumption seduced Germans, who borrowed and spent like they would not have to repay their debts. Their creditors were predominantly Jewish bankers. Resentment of Jews was not of Jews per se but Jews who were strangling Germans economically.
At about the same time, German intelligentsia were developing new understandings of the Bible that were more focused on Jesus as a moral man acting in history. This new literacy was not intentionally antisemitic. Also, some Germans got pretty cozy with Marcion concepts: Christianity should NOT find its roots in Judaism, etc. These ideas were certainly resented by Jews who have a love-hate relationship with Jesus and with Christianity.
In the 1920s and 1930s, stresses in Russia and East Europe displace many Jews, who found a safe haven in Germany. Think “Lou Dobbs/Hispanic.” Some Germans resented Jews displacing Germans in universities; dominance of press/media; swift attainment of disproportionate influence in government. Germans were stridently anticommunist and considered Jews the carriers of that ideology; academics are quite comfortable using the term Judeo-Bolshevism.
The Kafka quote is extremely important: some Jews maintain that they are destined to be the moral leaders of the universe, they are the smartest and the rest are dumb.
All these factors were at play in 1st half of 20th century Europe.
Very good replies and an excellent, well thought analysis, PG. Clearly, I misunderstood the gist of your discussion and I was a little hasty in my reply. I don’t really disagree with what you’ve said and looking back at my post, yeah, my characterization of the Iranian government was unsubtle and not quite accurate.
PSYCOPATHIC GOD- No doubt that U.S. policy towards Iran is not in the best interest of the American people. No doubt that the repeal of Glass-Steagall was not in the best interest of the American people. No doubt U.S. militarism is not in the best interest of the American people. No doubt that the dominant elites could care less about the best interest of the American people.
When evaluating the actions of the elites, we must try to see things from their (warped) perspective. The U.S. elites are firm believers in the international division of labor. The U.S. and other First World nations control the technology and manufacturing processes. The Third World provides markets, raw materials, and cheap labor. The U.S. has consistently opposed independent development in the Third World. The first gulf war provided an excuse for the U.S. to totally smash the Iraqi infrastructure. No chance of a potential rival for middle-east influence. The role of Arab states is to sell us oil and to buy our treasuries. Iran under the Shah was fine from their perspective. Iran is currently unacceptable to U.S. elites. The Godfather doesn’t want to cooperate with the Iranian people anymore than he wants to cooperate with the Cuban or Venezuelan people. The Godfather expects obedience and will make an example of those Third World people who get any funny ideas.
My point is that there is a certain continuity to U.S. foreign policy, and that Uncle Sam would be militantly antagonistic to Iran even without Israel. Of course, if Iran was to suddenly get with the program and become a U.S. client state like Egypt, all would be well, regardless of what Israel thought. Can you imagine Israel threatening Iran under the Shah?
I tend to agree with Keith.
Here’s the Shah Of Iran being interviewed by Mike Wallace in the mid-1970′s–note he says that American jews in the US media, banks, finance, etc have too much influence, biased influence that is not good for US best interests, or even Israel’s. (Mikey of course pretends to be amazed):
link to youtube.com
A real blast from the past!
wow, the same game only another decade.
Chaos- my point was not to equate Iran to Germany.
I would contest your point that “German Jews were ‘strangers’ who were ‘forcing’ things on the German people. It is my impression that a cadre of Jewish elites were deeply involved in German financial, educational, government/political, and media in Germany from the years immediately after Franco-Prussian war; escalating post-Treaty of Versailles; escalating again post-Russian revolution; impacted by several severe global financial crises. Judeo-Bolsheviks streamed into Germany from East Europe in the years immediately after the Russian revolution and brought communism with them; NASDP was strenuously anti-communist. In the early years as NASDP was coming to power, the people led and the party followed, on more than a few occasions, NASDP tamped down the bad acts of the people targeting Jews, by imposing party and nationalist discipline.
I can agree that “what Israel has been doing to Iran has absolutely nothing to do with Jewish identity” pretty much as what Germans did to Jews had not quite so much to do with Jewish identity. In the case of Israel vis a vis Iran, the conflict is financial/economic and hegemonic or geopolitical; in the case of Germany and Jews, I submit that the provocations of the conflict were financial/economic, and involved conflicting cultural and institutional dominance.
I do not equate Iran to Germany because I do not believe Iran is or will react to zionist/Israeli/USian ‘provocations’ in the same way that Germany did: I believe it is culturally impossible, inconceivable in the fullest sense of the word, for Iranians to enact a mass slaughter of Jews. Additionally, Iranians are more secure in their cultural identity than were Germans –Iranians are the original “Aryans,” which means, “noble people,” a term that reaches back perhaps 7000 years to Iranian origins on the Scythian steppe (the same locale as the disputatious Khazar/Jews). Further, I perceive that Iranians have a deeply-rooted, comfortable relationship with their land and geography that Americans, all of us immigrants to this land, could only wish for in our constructed landscapes and gated communities. Furthermore, unlike NASDP Germany, Iran does not have expansionist ambitions.
NASDP Germany and Iran do share some complaints: post-WWI, Germany resented being forced to disarm in a situation where it was bordered by heavily armed states. NASDP proposed numerous times that it would agree to its disarmament if France and UK did the same. Today, Iran proposes a nuclear-free Middle East, willing to forego nukes if Israel, Pakistan, India, and the interloper US do the same.
In that sense and in other ways I believe that Israeli/USian provocations are similar to those that “drove a culture mad” in NASDP Germany. That is what frightens me and goads me to advocate for friendly relations between US and Iran, rather than Clintonian via Saban/zionist sabre-rattling and provocations.
Chu.
Here is the “founding document” of German anti-Semitism:
link to theoccidentalobserver.net
Excerpt (consider how Witty tries to straddle this, not very conviningly on this blog):
“One of Marr’s most interesting observations is his proposal that Germans formed idealistic images of Jews during the Enlightenment when others had more realistic and negative views. Jews are realists, accepting the world as it is and advancing their interests based on their understanding of this reality. Judaism is characterized by particularlst morality (Is it good for the Jews?). Germans, on the other hand, tend to have idealized images of themselves and others — to believe that the human mind can construct reality based on ideals that can then shape behavior. They are predisposed to moral universalism — moral rules apply to everyone and are not dependent on whether it benefits the ingroup.
This is a reference to the powerful idealist strand of German philosophy that has been so influential in the culture of the West. An illustrative example is American transcendentalism, a movement that created an indigenous culture of critique in 19th-century America. This perspective resulted in overly optimistic views of human nature and tended toward radical egalitarianism; it also provided the theoretical underpinnings the abolitionist movement among elite intellectuals like Ralph Waldo Emerson.”
Anything here feel familiar, you Americans on this blog brought up with American values?
Remember the shell game: Who’s a jew?
MacDonald on Marr:
“Marr thinks that anti-Jewish attitudes will become powerful but ultimately they will fail to fend off disaster for the Germans and the West. Marr lays part of the blame on the fact that the only people who publicly oppose the Jews conceptualize them incorrectly as a religion. As a result, responsible, informed criticism of Jews that would appeal to non-religious people and intellectual elites never appears in the press: “A catastrophe lies ahead, because the indignation against the Judaization of society is intensified by the fact that it can’t be ventilated in the press without showing itself as a most abstruse religious hatred, such as it surfaces in the ultramontane and generally in the reactionary press” (p. 30). Nevertheless, even a “violent anti-Jewish explosion will only delay, but not avert the disintegration of Judaized society”
If Israel bombs Iran, will our congress divert the $1,000 per year per capita we give each Israeli (actually it’s more as Arab Israelis don’t really count) to pay for the instant $10.00 per gal (and fastly escalating) we US citizens will be paying at the pump?
Well, using the US government’s handy response to the mortgage crisis, credit crisis and unemployment crisis among US citizens… I’d say don’t hold your breath. Our interests were outbid on the auction block.
extend that thought, Chaos — consider the response to the mortgage crisis, credit crisis: the massive bailout was passed, against the expressed will of the people, on the day after Congress returned from Yom Kippur recess, forced through by Barney Frank.
I suggest that, if Israel bombs Iran and US gas hits $10.00 per gal, US citizens will be asked to increase subsidies to Israel, poor besieged Israel, in its hour of need, as it does the dirty work Israel’s hasbara network has brainwashed the world into thinking needs to be done — slaughtering Iranian citizens.
I would consider that an accurate prognostication. It’s pretty clear that the security and safety, financial or otherwise, of the American people at large no longer factors into the decision making process in Washington. As idiotic a course of action as that would be, rewarding the people who created the catastrophe in the first place is exactly the standard procedure in the capital nowadays.
Another rant to the pleasures of Zionists’ ears. Iran doesn’t have developed missiles to reach America – nor it has ever threatened to “wipe USA off the map”. However, an Israeli professor did warn European countries in 2004 that if the time come – “We will nuke most of European capitals”.
Islamic Iran has become the only country in the Middle East which produces most of its conventional military hardware locally. Contrary to that Israel receives US$3 billion worth of arms from the US in aid on annual basis. In addition to USAID, Israel’s annual military budget stands at US$10 billion as compared to Islamic Iran’s annual military budget of US$4.3 billion. Israel’s blind supporter’s (US) annual budget is US$623 billion – almost half of the entire world’s total military expenditure of US$1.2 trillion……
Canadian Report: Iran has world’s fastest scientific growth
link to rehmat1.wordpress.com
Applebaum does not say that Israel will likely attack Iran. She says that it is possible.
Does she describe it as an unfavorable course of action? Answer honestly. Because when I read the article, it sounds like she wants the United States to bomb Iran’s nuclear sites, and the biggest obstacle is that we don’t know where they are.
…Kind of like how we didn’t know where Saddam Hussein’s WMDs were, either. Apparently.
She’s trying to tamp the ground for when Israel attacks Iran. Her implied conclusion is that Israel will do so since they live in the neighborhood and Iran has made sounds threatening Israel hegemony. The US role is to allow Israel to do what it sees fit. And bear the consequences. She’s a real American patriot.
The posts above keep repeating that the overthrow of the Mossadegh government was simply the work of the CIA. What is being ignored is that a rebellion and violent street demonstrations began with the Islamists against his secular government. The CIA and MI6 used the resulting chaos to spread the discord and sneak the Shah back in. Anyway the struggle between secular Iranians and the mullahs continues to this day will likely be an important factor on how the US and Israel deal with Iran.
This is not an excuse to support war against Iran, but people here are generally sufficiently educated that they need not rely on simplistic historical interpretations.
the rebellions served to present an opportunity; absent the determination of Churchill and the Scots owners of the oil company to resist absolutely any nationalization of Iranian oil, it’s hard to imagine that Mossadeqh would have been overthrown by a relative fringe rebellion against a popular representative leader.
It was not a relative fringe rebellion if it was led by the religious leaders. They may have lacked political sophistication but by 1979 they had gained it. Within one year of seizing power, the Islamists finally succeeding in defeating the secular wing of their anti-Shah coalition (they never forgot who their real enemy was) and sending many to their death, prison and torture. There are three sides in today — the US and Israel, the reactionary mullahs and the secular leaning cosmopolitan Iranians. All we can do is to try to prevent the our side from bombing and let the other two sides slug it out.
How many Noble Prize winners does it take to screw in a light bulb? How many to sign on to a NYT Ad that proclaims (sans any support) Iran is a threat to the entire world? Count them:
link to eliewieselfoundation.org