“Jews were fleeing genocide, and you think the Palestinians did right to close their borders to them?”
Jews were pouring into Palestine long before the Nazis started their genocide. The Palestinians knew that the aim of the Jews was to take over the country. But Palestine was controlled by the British, so the Palestinians could not close the borders.

Zionists worked hard at trying to get the USA, Britain, and other countries to close their borders to Jews.

” come, bring your survivors here to live with us.”
The Palestinians knew that the Jews had no intention of living with them. The Jews intended to take over, and either expel or subjugate the Palestinians. That’s what “Jewish State” means.

“rejecting every peace offer”
What peace offers?

Still, I can’t blame you for feeling annoyed that you get more sympathy when you portray yourselves as non-human aliens.

Zionists worked hard at trying to get the USA, Britain, and other countries to close their borders to Jews.

The Palestinians knew that the Jews had no intention of living with them. The Jews intended to take over, and either expel or subjugate the Palestinians. That’s what “Jewish State” means.

What peace offers?

He was probably thinking of the recent Gaza slaughter.

“In a war, proportionality is a non issue. Should the Americans feel guilty that more Germans died on D Day than Americans”

False. Proportionality is an issue according to the laws of war. And you aren’t making a distinction between civilians and people actually shooting, so your D-Day analogy is stupid.

“What matters is the deliberate targeting of civilians, such as suicide bombings and drive by shootings in the second intifada, as contrasted to the blowing up of empty buildings, targeted assasinations and yes, the construction of a non-lethal wall.”

Using indiscriminate firepower in urban settings is a form of civilian targeting with plausible deniability–plausible, that is, if you’re an ideologue. Also, there are cases where it’s obvious that the IDF was targeting civilians. And they kill many more of them, despite the precision weaponry at their disposal.

“So, Potsherd, why not build the wall on Israeli land? 3 quick thoughts, firstly, the wall needs to go along ridges to be effective. ”

So it can’t be built on an Israeli ridge? Given all the stolen land, they can’t sacrifice any of their own? Anyway, despite that quote from Fisk, it’s clear that if Palestinians wanted to send in some more terrorists, they could. The wall isn’t complete. link

“How come 20% of Israel’s population is Arab? What % of Jordan was Jewish after 48? (hint, the same % as there are Jews in Saudi Arabia).”

It was a decision not to clear out every last Arab, just enough so that there was an overwhelming majority. As for Jordan, there’s no reason why anyone should give Arab nations a pass when it comes to accusations of war crimes.

“When Palestinians do the same, its noble? The refugees are the bad guys?”

In the case of Zionism, there was a movement that was out in the open declaring its intent to create a Jewish state–they’d even persuaded the imperial power of the time to make a declaration promising this. There’s no group of people on earth that wouldn’t have objected to that. The rest of the world is to blame for not accepting more Jewish refugees.

“Equally, after the war, the Palestinians had the option of apologising, of saying “we closed our doors when you were dying, please forgive us, and come, bring your survivors here to live with us.” They didnt, but, rejecting every peace offer went to war. ”

Both sides were engaged in terrorist acts against the other by the 30′s. The Zionists clearly intended to take over. The partition plan was grossly unfair to the Palestinians. They had every moral right to reject it.

As for colonialism, it’s as old as humanity. One tribe steals the land of another, and concocts some reason why it had the right to do so. Benny Morris says it’s because his group is superior. People were probably saying that kind of thing back in the Neolithic period.

Please let me know when your book becomes available on the market, I’d like to buy a couple of copies – one for me and another to pass on as a gift.

And yet people who don’t even know any Palestinians would come on this forum and demonize them wholesale. That’s what still astonishes me.

Incidentally, before I learned about the whole Palestine situation, what used to be most inspiring to me was the Jewish story — the fact that the Holocaust didn’t break them, that they went on to be world-class intellectuals and businesspeople and everything else, to a staggering degree. Not only that — they were leaders of movements for human rights and international law.

Which makes what Israel has become — a dangerous, blindered, anti-intellectual, anti-democratic, anti-rule-of-law, tribal society — that much more heartbreaking. But I think they’ll eventually wake up. I hope. They’ll never have the security they crave otherwise. Ideologies blinded to reality to that degree tend not to last long.

So, Potsherd, why not build the wall on Israeli land? 3 quick thoughts, firstly, the wall needs to go along ridges to be effective. If the green line is in a gully, the wall would be useless. Secondly, if the Arab states and PLO had recognised the green line pre 67, and not crossed it in war, none of this would be happening, if they dont recognise it, why should Israel? And 3, I happen to think its a moral positive for the wall to be in the west bank (gasps from readers). Otherwise, I get to shoot civilians from my territory, and send suicide bombers from my territory, and you respond by trashing your territory to build a wall. Its a win/win with no down side for me to attack civilians. They die, and they pay the price. It was the Palestinians who started and continued the second intifada, who deliberately targeted civilians in it, thus making the wall a nessesity, so they should pay the price for it. They can pay for their war crimes by loosing a small bit of their territory to stop further war crimes. Seems fair to me.

Tommy, seriously, stay away from the cinema, return to earth! “killing everyone …”?? How come 20% of Israel’s population is Arab? What % of Jordan was Jewish after 48? (hint, the same % as there are Jews in Saudi Arabia).

Chu, “Judo Nazis coming from Germany”. That is the winner. Think about what you are writing! Are you saying that when Jews were trying to flee Nazi Germany in the 30s, you would have supported the Palestinians in their demands to recieve no refugees, their demand to be ethnically pure Arab? When America First types rioted in NY during this time to keep out refugees, everyone rightly called them disgusting bigots. When Palestinians do the same, its noble? The refugees are the bad guys? Then tear down the statue of liberty and those cute words underneath. Jews were fleeing genocide, and you think the Palestinians did right to close their borders to them?? Equally, after the war, the Palestinians had the option of apologising, of saying “we closed our doors when you were dying, please forgive us, and come, bring your survivors here to live with us.” They didnt, but, rejecting every peace offer went to war. And you support this??
PS, you had better tell the Chinese about colonialism being a European idea, and remind them of Tibet.