Britain kicks out Mossad chief

on 62 Comments

After a recent warning from US military leaders that Israel is putting at risk the lives of American soldiers in the Middle East, the British government has warned that actions by Israel present “a hazard for the safety of British nationals in the region.”

This latest warning comes after a criminal investigation has concluded that Israel stole the identities of 12 British citizens in order to murder the Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai in January. As a result of that investigation Britain today expelled an Israeli diplomat from London who is understood to be the UK-based Mossad chief.

From London, the Daily Telegraph reports:

An investigation by the Serious and Organised Crime Squad (SOCA) has concluded that there are “compelling reasons” to believe that Israel was responsible for the “misuse” of a dozen British passports.

A senior diplomat at the Israeli Embassy in London – widely believed to be a member of Mossad, the feared Israeli secret service agency – is being expelled from the Untied Kingdom as a result.

As the diplomatic row escalated, Mr Miliband told the House of Commons that he had demanded that the Israeli government give assurances that British citizens will never again be drawn into such an operation.

Describing the passport holders as “wholly innocent victims,” the Foreign Secretary aid that the fact that Israel was a “friend” of the United Kingdom added “insult to injury.

The British government has also taken the unusual step of warning British passport holders not to hand over their passports to Israeli officials unless “absolutely necessary.”

Since it’s impossible to enter any country without handing over your passport, perhaps this advice should be interpreted to mean that British citizens should only travel to Israel when absolutely necessary.

Aryeh Eldad, a National Religious Party member of the Knesset suggested that the British are worse than dogs when told Sky News: “I think [the] British are behaving hypocritically and I don’t want to offend dogs on this issue, since some dogs are utterly loyal, who are they to judge us on the war on terror?”

This is a cross-post from Woodward’s site, War in Context.

62 Responses

  1. Avi
    March 23, 2010, 7:01 pm

    So the British, according to this Israeli MK, are hypocrites for expecting Israelis to behave better, but Israelis can continue to be hypocrites because everyone else is a hypocrite. Got it.

  2. AM
    March 23, 2010, 7:28 pm

    So will any further action ultimately take place, or will this blow away like prior UK-Israeli incidents, even if it takes a couple of years?

    • potsherd
      March 23, 2010, 8:35 pm

      This was a token, a gesture of disapproval, really the minimum they could have done.

      • dalybean
        March 24, 2010, 7:53 pm

        I disagree. The UK has said that they will not allow a replacement Mossad chief back into the country until Israel makes a public declaration that they will never misuse British passports again, ever. Such a declaration would mean that Israel admits to the crime.

        It is said that Israel will likewise be sanctioned by Ireland, Australia, France and Germany.

      • rob
        April 11, 2010, 2:23 pm

        Problem is, they said once before they ‘would never do it again’, back in 1987.

        “The Sunday Times said in a front-page article today that eight fake British passports intended ”for Mossad secret service hit men to attack opponents abroad were discovered by chance last summer in a bag inside a telephone booth in West Germany.”

        link to

        never again seems to happen again…..and again…

  3. Taxi
    March 23, 2010, 7:59 pm

    I actually watched live (CNN Live) Miliband at the House of Commons today, not only make the statement regarding expelling the Israeli diplomat, but also take questions from both sides of the isle for at least ten minutes regarding this sordid affair.

    Every single question by the British politicians from both sides were so ballsy and in such stark contrast to our aipac brown-nozers here in congress and in the senate.

    I tried to find a video of the session but alas no luck – plenty of videos of Miliband making his statement for 5 minutes, but nothing thereafter, which is when the real interesting shit was being said.

    I’ll post the video if I ever find it.

    Anyway, even though this expulsion is but a mere slap on the wrist to the Israelis, who don’t care anyway so long as they ‘get their man’, the people of England aren’t satisfied and wanna kick Israel in the balls – I’m gleaning this fro reading UK editorials and talkbacks this afternoon.

    But you can bet your bottom dollar that no British politician is gonna be able waving the I love Israel flag at the next election, so deeply unpopular with the masses the Israelis have now become.

    • tree
      March 23, 2010, 8:33 pm

      I’ve found a website of the UK Parliament that has the full dailyvideo feeds of everything that goes on in the House of Commons. If you connect to the video at 15:36:50 you will see the start of Milliband’s statement and all the following questions.

      link to

      • Taxi
        March 23, 2010, 9:03 pm

        Thanks for the link. And for your tireless and solid contributions to the people of America and Palestine – and really therefore to the world at large :-)

      • AM
        March 24, 2010, 1:35 pm

        Translation of the video:

        Miliband: What they did was wrong, and we got assurances that they won’t do it again.

        All other MP: It is an extra judicial killing, passports can be easily stolen at BenGurion Airport, they’ve done this before and lied about not doing it again, the appropriate response is ONLY to expel a minister – are you on drugs?, they constantly violate the law – go look at the west bank and gaza, they never follow international law, this is bullshit, they may be a good ally but we have to be critical about them over these issues as well as other palestinians issues.

        Generic Response by Miliband: Settlements are illegal, but Israel is our ally and we need to maintain great relations with them.

      • RoHa
        March 25, 2010, 6:27 am

        Sorry, I can’t get it. How do I “connect at 15:36:50”?

  4. RoHa
    March 23, 2010, 8:12 pm

    “who are they to judge us on the war on terror?”

    They are the people who faced years of Irish terrorism. (And didn’t send the RAF to bomb Boston and those stupid Americans who pretend they are Irish.) The British faced the Mau-Mau terrorists in Kenya, the Jewish terrorists in Palestine, the EOKA terrorists in Cyprus, and the Malayan Emergency, just for starters. They do have some experieince of terrorism.

    • James
      March 23, 2010, 8:46 pm

      countries are allowed to kick people out who represent countries and doctrines that don’t give a shit about basic things like falsifying passports, etc, or worse….

    • yonira
      March 23, 2010, 9:51 pm

      You forgot the Palestinian Freedom Fighters in Palestine.

      • Chaos4700
        March 23, 2010, 10:27 pm

        And how many hotels did they bomb? Just asking.

      • eGuard
        March 24, 2010, 3:50 am

        You forgot the Palestinian Freedom Fighters in Palestine; yonira, please help me: when and were was the UK fighting them? Or is this a one-hit-only-google-search?

      • RoHa
        March 24, 2010, 7:59 pm

        Perhaps he is thinking of hte Arab Revolt of 1936-39. The Arabs of Palestine, foolishly thinking that their wishes for their own country mattered, made the folliwing demands.

        An end to Jewish immigration
        An end to transfers of land to Jewish owners
        A new “general representative government”

        In Nov, 1938, Montgomery was put in command of the British Army in Palestine, and his brutal tactics brought a swift end to the revolt. (A major stain on an otherwise pretty good reputation.)

        The Arab politcal leadership was largely destroyed, and the Arabs were mosty disarmed. This greatly weakened their postion.

      • Chaos4700
        March 24, 2010, 9:11 pm

        And then, ironically, paved the way for Zionist militants to show the British just what it means to utilize brutal tactics.

      • wondering jew
        March 24, 2010, 9:51 pm

        The Arab revolt also resulted in the White Paper of ’39 which limited Jewish immigration to 75,000 over the next five years. Although the rest of the world also closed its doors to the Jews who wished to flee Europe, the White Paper condemned many Jews to death by the hands of the Nazis.

      • potsherd
        March 24, 2010, 10:30 pm

        The British had no right to begin giving away Palestinian land to begin with.

      • Chaos4700
        March 24, 2010, 10:49 pm

        That has to be the most convoluted excuse for blaming the Holocaust on Arabs that I have ever heard, WJ. The Jews were killed by the Nazis, WJ. The Nazis. Not the Arabs, and not the British.

        And in any event, what did David Ben Gurion have to say on the matter? Oh, right:

        If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.

      • tree
        March 24, 2010, 11:10 pm

        It much more accurate to say that the Zionist enterprise condemned many Jews to death by the hands of the Nazis. By insisting on using Jewish money to set up a “homeland” where most European Jews did not wish to live, and where another people already resided, and also insisting that money and effort should not be spent on rescuing European Jews unless they were to go to Palestine, by choosing Jews more on the basis of whether they could be helpful to the fledgling state rather than whether they needed a safe place to come to, and by also declaring that diaspora Jews were living abnormal lives in “galut” (lending rhetorical support to those anti-semites who believed the same thing), they condemned many Jews to death at the hands of the Nazis themselves, and have no moral right to criticize others without condemning themselves as well. If only half of that money and effort was spent instead on efforts to increase the quotas in the US and other safe havens, many hundreds of thousands more Jews could have been saved than those that entered Palestine, and the Palestinians could have been saved their over half century oppression by Israel.

        By 1939, on the eve of war, and in the war years after that, it was extremely difficult for many Jews in Europe to come to Palestine, even if they had an immigration certificate. And if they came without a certificate, they were usually smuggled in, or were arrested and spent the rest of the war years safely in Mauritius. The main problem at that time was not the number of certificates, which, while issued by Britain, were distributed by the Jewish Agency in Palestine, but the difficulty in transiting through Europe during wartime to find refuge anywhere.

        I don’t usually like quoting wikipedia because it doesn’t always tell the whole story, or tell it accurately, but this entry details some of the situation during the war:

        In December 1942, when extermination of the Jews became public knowledge, there were 34,000 immigration certificates remaining. In February 1943, the British government announced that the remaining certificates could be used as soon as practicable to rescue Jewish children from southeastern Europe, particularly Bulgaria. This plan was partly successful but many people who received certificates were not able to emigrate (but those in Bulgaria survived).[12] In July it was announced that any Jewish refugee who reached a neutral country in transit would be given clearance for Palestine.[13] During 1943 about half the remaining certificates were distributed,[14] and by the end of the war there were 3,000 certificates left.[15]

        And, also, it was believed at the time that without the White Paper, Britain might have found itself facing increasing Arab hostility while engaged in a major war effort against Germany in North Africa and the Middle East.

      • wondering jew
        March 24, 2010, 11:14 pm

        The Arab revolt was mentioned and I felt it appropriate to cite one of the consequences of that revolt. I understand that the sympathies in this comments section is not with the Zionists.

      • Chaos4700
        March 24, 2010, 11:20 pm

        Not all Jews are Zionists, WJ, so stop exhuming the victims of the Holocaust and putting them on parade as your personal rhetorical human shields.

      • James Bradley
        March 24, 2010, 11:24 pm

        I understand that the sympathies in this comments section is not with the Zionists.

        Its very difficult to sympathize with an openly racist ideology that promotes the ethnic cleansing of an indigenous people to create living space for a “Special” group of people.

      • tree
        March 24, 2010, 11:39 pm

        Although the rest of the world also closed its doors to the Jews who wished to flee Europe….

        This is the other part of the lie. Four hundred thousand of the then 600,000 German Jews were able to escape German prior to 1939, when it then became nearly impossible to leave because of German restrictions, not because of lack of places to go to. Despite the Great Depression, there were many countries willing to take in refugees, although of course there were restrictions on numbers and more should have been helped. But this is not the same as “closing its doors”, and to claim so is to tell a lie, a lie that is used to excuse the excesses and oppressions that Israel has committed and continues to commit. Enough. The story of Denmark and Sweden is perhaps one of the most shining examples. When Denmark was occupied, the government sought and obtained guarantees from their German occupiers that none of its Jewish citizens would be deported or imprisoned. When it was later discovered that the Nazis planned to break their promise, the entire country organized a boatlift of its Jewish citizens to safe asylum in Sweden. There were countries all over the globe that took in Jewish refugees. And yet we have to hear that “the world closed its doors”. Enough. Could more have been done? Yes, but to claim that no one did a thing to help Jews but the Zionists in Palestine is the crassest revisionism and frankly a blood libel against non-Jews.

      • tree
        March 24, 2010, 11:48 pm

        The Arab revolt was mentioned and I felt it appropriate to cite one of the consequences of that revolt

        But what you failed to acknowledge was that the Arab Revolt itself was one of easily foreseen consequences of the Zionist enterprise and its efforts to disenfranchise the indigenous population of Palestine. Its quite illogical to expect people who are being disenfranchised to accept it and not to revolt.

      • wondering jew
        March 25, 2010, 12:02 am

        I suspect that somewhere in Hitler’s dark heart he always wanted to exterminate the Jews, but in fact the decision to act on that impulse was not reached until after the invasion of the USSR in 1941. The lack of a plan for actual transfer of the Jews to other locations led to the eventual ‘transfer” of the Jews to the east, which in fact was a code word for extermination.
        Of all the Arab countries that are culpable for their refusal (along with the rest of the world) for closing their gates to Jewish refugees in the 30’s, I suppose the Palestinians had the greatest justification for closing their gate, for they knew the Jews wished to claim their land as their own.
        There was a proposal made to give the Jews a refuge in Uganda. This idea was brought to the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel in 1903. The proposal almost succeeded in splitting the Zionist movement. The Congress voted 295 to177 to send an exploratory committee to check the place out, but they eventually found it unsuitable. From this offer there developed the Jewish Territorialist Organization, which entertained various other destinations for a refuge. The Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations mandate to the British took the air out of this attempt to find an alternate refuge, for those seeking refuge felt as a result of the League of Nations’ mandate that their true desire: a return to Zion was in fact possible.
        It’s possible that the refusal to accept Uganda was based more on the desire to return to Zion rather than the unsuitability of Uganda. The “what if” scenario of Uganda can haunt. Had the Zionists accepted Uganda would this have saved millions from extermination, rather than merely hundreds of thousands that were saved by the Zionist enterprise in Palestine? Interesting question. (Michael Chabon’s “The Yiddish Policeman’s Union” deals with an alternate history where Alaska was chosen as a refuge for the Jews.)
        Certainly one can accept the innocence of the Palestinians vis a vis the Jewish travails during WWII, but can still sympathize with the desire of the Jews as a group to seek a refuge.

      • Chaos4700
        March 25, 2010, 12:11 am

        Taking someone’s home and running them out with machine guns and davidkas is not “seeking refuge,” WJ. That’s terrorism and theft. Seeking refuge is what families like that of Albert Einstein did. Unsurprisingly perhaps, like what my German Catholic family did as a result of kulturkampf. Or did you really think Jews were so privileged that nobody else ever suffered in Germany?

      • wondering jew
        March 25, 2010, 12:26 am

        tree- Of the 400,000 Jews who escaped Germany before 1939, how many ended up in Palestine? At least 100,000, probably closer to 200,000. So right away from 25 to 50% of those saved from Germany went to Palestine and not to other countries. If a refuge for the Jews had been established rather than the closed door policy from the Evian Conference of 1938, then Hitler might have transferred Poland and Russia’s Jews to that refuge instead of turning his campaign into one of extermination. Denmark was one shining light in the story of the war. 8,000 Jews were saved in Denmark. Citing Denmark as an example of the “world closed its doors” not being true is a sign of a closed mind.

        The massacre of Jews by Hitler, his Nazis and various helpers during World War II proves that the impulse of the Zionist founders to find a refuge was on the mark. It also proved that the impulse to take one’s fate into one’s own hands was also on the mark. The choice of Palestine, I understand, involved an injustice to the indigenous and therefore constant warring and therefore you feel it was stupid.

        But to claim that the world really cares about refugees is just plain stupid nonsense. Did the world care about Rwanda? Did the world care about Cambodia? No. It’s not just the Jews. But to pretend that the 8,000 Jews saved from Denmark proves that the world did care, that’s just plain nonsense. And if you check your ears, you’ll find that ain’t earwax, but some other substance, cuz you’re full of it, dearie.

      • yonira
        March 25, 2010, 12:26 am

        So give me some solid proof of this quote from Ben-Gurion. I’ve seen it on here probably over 20 times. Its your favorite quote, but its unsubstantiated. This quote has been discredited many times, but it continues to pop up on here like its gospel. I’d love to see some actual proof of it, not just some record from a whack-job’s book. (It is a favorite of David Icke’s)

        While your at it, could you post the entire Mapai’s central committee on December 7, 1938 Chaos? I would like to know that this wasn’t taken out of context(if in fact it was said at all, was the Hebrew translated correctly?).

        How is taking this out of context any different than this being taken out of context:

        link to

        This has already been proven (by an Arabic speaker here on Mondoweiss) to be an accurate translation, although taken out of context. How is this any different than Ben-Gurion’s quote being taken out of context? How can you argue that Ben-Gurion’s quote is accurate when you deny what is translated above?

      • tree
        March 25, 2010, 12:40 am

        From Tom Segev, “The Seventh Million: The Israelis and the Holocaust”

        The Jewish Agency, of course, agreed with the need to creat a Jewish majority in Palestine-but through selective immigration, not mass evacuation. The labor Zionists who dominated the agency believed that a new society needed to be created, entirely different from the one that characterized Jewish existence in the Exile. They proposed returning the Jewish people to agricultural labor. Urban life was, in their eyes, a sypmtom of social and moral degeneration; returning to the land would give birth to the “new man” they hoped to create in Palestine. In parceling out the immigration certificates, they therefor gave preference to those who could play a role in their program for building the country. They preferred healthy young Zionists, ideally with agricultural training or at least a willingness to work on the land. They did not ignore the tribulations of the Jews of Europe, and from time to time they told one another that permits should also be given to people in need who might not advance the Zionist enterprise; but when it came to actually choosing the immigrants, their cheif consideration was how to best meet the needs of the new society.

        The ideal settlers, then were the “pioneers,” or halutzim, that is, those who helped set up new agricultural settlements or joined existing ones. The term also had a manifestly political significance: not only did the Halutz movement in Europe give agricultural training to young Jews who planned to become farmers in Palestine, it instilled socialist ideology in its members. When immigration certificates were handed out to pioneers, the intention was to encourage agricultural development but also to strengthen the labor movement in the yishuv. Members of the distinctly urban Betar movement distributed the immigration permits allotted to them according to their own political criteria-theyu gave preference to immigrants who were willing and able to serve in the Etzel. Like the Jewish Agency, Betar also refused to help those who wished to go to other countries.

        The question was what to do with those refugees who were neither ZIonist nor fit to help build the new society in Palestine. “ONly God knows how the poor little Land of Israel can take in this stream of people and emerge with a healthy social structure,” Chaim Weizmann wrote. The German Immigrants’ Association complained that the Jewish Agency’s representatives in Berlin were giving immigration certificates to invalids. “The human material coming from Germany is getting worse and worse,” the association charged after almost a year of Nazi rule. “They are not able and not willing to work, and they need social assistance.” A year later the association sent to Berlin a list of names of people who should not have been sent. Henrietta Szold, who headed the Jewish Agency’s social-work division, also frequently protested about the sick and needy among the immigrants. From time to time Szold demanded that certain of such “cases” be returned to Nazi Germany so that they would not be a burden on the yishuv.

        from pages 42-43

        Really, WJ, these people do not deserve your defense of them. If they were not Jews you would be decrying their callousness and disregard for the needs of these refugees.

      • Chaos4700
        March 25, 2010, 12:43 am

        You post the same MEMRI garbage and lie again about what was said about what is actually said in Arabic, and then you have the nerve to say, “duh… your quote is all unsubstantiatedlike. Huh!”

        The quote I cited is referenced on pages 855 and 856 in Ben Gurion: The Burning Ground, 1886-1948 by Shabtai Teveth. ISBN 9780395483589, if you’re interested.

        Keep trying to blame the Holocaust on the Arabs, you crazy wild-eyed Zionists. I’m sure the ghosts of the Nazis are ever so happy that Jews are exonerating them. For any reason, even self-serving ones.

      • yonira
        March 25, 2010, 12:52 am

        Yeah, I know exactly where it came from Chaos, that is not the point, it was a secret conference for Mapai’s central committee on December 7, 1938. Was the entire transcript posted there NO.

        and that video was never discredited, it was actually proven to be authentic ON HERE.

        I didn’t say shit about Arabs, now I am blaming the Holocaust on them? You spout the same bullshit lies, all the time on here. Your like W. keep repeating a lie so many times until you believe its the truth.

        I posted that video to prove that we don’t know what context of Ben-Gurion’s statement just like we don’t know the context of the video above.

      • yonira
        March 25, 2010, 12:54 am

        You conveniently forgot that an Arab speaker on here authenticated the video huh Chaos, imagine that.

      • tree
        March 25, 2010, 1:01 am

        Tom Segev, continued, for yonira’s benefit as well:

        The Jewish Agency office in Berlin was also responsible for ascertaining the moral character and political affiliations of the immigratns it sent to Palestine. A bornstein family had established a brothel in Jaffa–obviously a violation of the Zionist ideal–charged an official in the office of Agency executive member Werner Senaor. In 1937 the Joint Distribution Committee, an AMerican organization that assissted needy Jews, negotiated with teh German authorities for the release of 120 Jewish prisoners from the Dachau concentration camp.l “I am not sure that from a political point of view it is desirable that all those released come to Palestine” a Jewish Agency official wrote to one of his colleagues. Most were not Zionists, and there may even have been Communists among them.

        Senator, who was active in bringing German Jews to Palestine, warned the Jewish Agency office in Berlin that if it did not improve the quality of the “human material” it was sending, the agencywas liable to cut back the number of certificates set aside for the German capital. The immigrants from Germany enjoyed all sorts of special benefits, Senator wrote. Yhey received immigration certificates after only six months of agricultural training [in Germany], while in other countries up to two years was required. Requests for family reunification from Germans with relatives in Palestine were also quickly approved. All this required special attention to the quality of the immigrants, who should be true pionees. Senator was not referring to occasional errors in judgment, he assured his colleagues; he was talking about a trend. More and more “welfare cases” were arriving from Germany, as well as too many “businessmen with children” rather than single men and women.

        At one point it was decided that candidates above the age of thirty-five would receive immigration certificates “only if there is no reason to believe that they might become a burden here.” Accordingly, they had to have a profession. “Anyone who was a merchant,” the division stated., “or of similar employment, will not receive a certificate under any circumstances, except in the case of veteran Zionists” This was in 1935. ” In days of plenty it was possible to handle this material,” explained Yitzhak Greenbaum. “In the days of shortages and unemployment, this material will cause us many problems… We must be allowed to choose from among the refugees those worthy of immigration and not accept them all.”

        It goes on. You can try to defend this attitude as something better that what was happening in the rest of the world, but you’re deluding yourself if you do.

      • Chaos4700
        March 25, 2010, 1:06 am

        No, actually… A) you’re talking about a completely different MEMRI video than this one that you’re posting, and B) the Arab speaker pointed out that the translation in the video was skewed. It wasn’t an outright lie but it was distorted from the meaning of the words used.

        Yonira, in what context is it OK for any Jew to willfully condemn half a population’s children to death if that guarantees he gets to control the fate of the other half? Go ahead, tell me the context.

        Or better yet, explain to me why you and WJ want to blame the Arabs INSTEAD OF THE NAZIS for the Holocaust? I’m sure a lot of the Jewish reading audience would like to know your answer to that, too.

      • yonira
        March 25, 2010, 1:17 am

        how me where either of us said anything close to that. keep on repeating the same lies Chaos, all it does is make you look like the prick that you are.

        can you show us where WJ or I said anything close to what you are implying?

        Because I know you are incapable:

        The Ben Gurion quote is taken from comments he made to Mapai’s central committee on December 7, 1938. This followed Britain’s decision to deny entrance into Palestine of 10,000 German Jewish orphans in the wake of Kristallnacht, instead offering them asylum within Great Britain. It was almost a year before the Nazis launched World War II and several years before the Final Solution (to annihilate the Jews) was methodically implemented. While Ben Gurion believed that Germany’s anti-Jewish policies would necessitate creating a safe haven for numerous Jewish refugees that no other country was willing to accept, he had no way of predicting the enormity of what was to follow.

        The British offer to accept several thousand children appeared to be a gesture of conscience allowing Britain to close the doors of Palestine — not only to those German orphans, but to future refugees as well. Ben Gurion had recently witnessed the results of the international Evian conference, which had been convened in July 1938 to address the growing Jewish refugee problem, and knew that other countries were also unwilling to accept hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees. He believed that only a Jewish homeland would be able to properly absorb these Jews. Thus Ben Gurion stated that “our concern is not only the personal interest of these children, but the historic interest of the Jewish people” (translation from the stenographic records by Shabtai Teveth, Ben Gurion and the Holocaust, Harcourt Brace & Co. 1996, p. 47).

        According to the records of the Mapai meeting, Yitzchak Ben Zvi immediately clarified Ben Gurion’s brusque remark, explaining “ten thousand children are a small part of Germany’s [Jewish] children…They [the British] don’t intend to save Germany’s Jews, and certainly not all of them. The moment the Jewish State Plan [the Peel plan] was shelved, the possibility of complete rescue of Germany’s Jews was shelved with it.” (ibid. p. 48)

      • tree
        March 25, 2010, 1:20 am


        tree- Of the 400,000 Jews who escaped Germany before 1939, how many ended up in Palestine?

        One last quote from Segev, to answer that question:

        At the beginning of 1933 there were about half a million Jews in Germany, some 1 percetn of the total population’ another 200,00 lived in Austria. About a third of the Jews of these two countries were murdered, the rest managed to get out in time. They settled in the United States, in England, and in other countries around the world; only one out of every ten came to Palestine, a total of between 50,000 and 60,000 people.

        That means that your figures are way off, and 90% of German Jewish refugees, somewhere between 340,000 and 350,000 went to places other than Palestine but yet you insist that the rest of the world “closed its doors”, when its evident from Israeli archives as described by Segev that pre-state Israel did just as much selection of its immigrants as any other nation did, if not more and even placed restrictions that other places didn’t.

      • tree
        March 25, 2010, 1:23 am

        For clarity”s sake, the second paragraph above is a direct quote from Segev, The Seventh Million, page 35. Paragraphs one and three are mine. Excuse me for messing up my formatting.

      • Chaos4700
        March 25, 2010, 1:24 am

        Okay, I’m going to just back off. Tree’s doing a pretty good job of showing both WJ and yonira just what utter idiots they are.

        I will say one thing —

        Yitzchak Ben Zvi immediately clarified Ben Gurion’s brusque remark

        And who was Yitzchack Ben Zvi? Ben Gurion’s analog to Karl Rove? How come you Zionists have to keep tripping all over yourselves justifying your atrocious remarks?

      • Taxi
        March 25, 2010, 1:24 am

        I speak fluent Arabic, French, Italian, Spanish and smatterings of German and Russian. I watched the video and the translation is accurate but the context is completely off. The sentiments of the speaker and his words relate to bereavement and martyrdom for homeland and family.

      • tree
        March 25, 2010, 1:40 am

        And if you check your ears, you’ll find that ain’t earwax, but some other substance, cuz you’re full of it, dearie.

        Thiis is beneath you, WJ. I’m not just talking about just 8,000 Jews and if you would look with open eyes instead of endorsing mistaken “common wisdom” you would realize that 350,000 Jewish refugees from Germany alone does not constitute “the world closing its doors” any more than the Zionists using a selection process of age, commitment to Zionism, health, and suitable skills constitutes a state willing to put the need of individual Jews above its own interests. Yup, there isn’t as much concern from state actors for any refugees as there ought to be, but that includes the pre-state Israel and its “concern for individual Jews. And please don’t excuse this by claiming that they weren’t yet a state. They did the same kind of crap with Jews after statehood. It was all done in name of serving the state’s interests, not the individual Jews.

        I have to go to bed now. If you want more examples of the exploitation of Jews for Israel’s own interests after 1948, I’ll be glad to give you examples tomorrow evening.

      • tree
        March 25, 2010, 2:01 am

        I see I really need to get to bed. Sorry for the typos. All my fault for transcribing from Segev’s book too rapidly and not proofreading. Also, my math was off. According to Segev, over 400,000 German and Austrian Jewish refugees went to places other than Palestine.

        One last Segev, page 34:”Zionist logic dictated that Jews needed their own independent country because they would always face discrimination and persecution anyplace else. The Zionist dream conceived of a “new man” ina new society, who would come to the Land of Israel in search of personal and national salvation. Those who came only because they had no other choice, however, did not fit this image and often found themselves objects of condescension and contempt. This paradox was built into Zionist ideology and colored the mentality of the yishuv. ”

        Good night all.

      • Chaos4700
        March 25, 2010, 2:04 am

        Get some rest, tree. After the tour de force, you deserve it. :)

      • James Bradley
        March 25, 2010, 2:08 am

        That video is completely stripped of its context Yonira, we’ve mentioned that to you multiple times now.

        The speaker in the video is not saying that Hamas had a policy of turning Palestinians into human shields at all.

        We already know that Israel had a policy of turning Palestinians themselves into human shields for the IDF.

        Anyway, please stop posting MEMRI propaganda here.

        link to

      • RoHa
        March 25, 2010, 6:13 am

        Are you saying that the Palestinians should have agreed to allow themselves to be swamped by foreign immigrants, when the main representatives and organizers of those immigrants had made it clear that their intention was to take over the country?

        Yes, you are, because you think that the immigrants matter and the Palestinians don’t.

      • RoHa
        March 25, 2010, 6:50 am

        “Or better yet, explain to me why you and WJ want to blame the Arabs INSTEAD OF THE NAZIS for the Holocaust?”

        Well, duuuh! The Nazis are long gone. The Arabs are still there, and need to be blamed for everything.

        (I’m not sure why the Nazis disappeared, since apparently the whole world stood by and let them do whatever they wanted.)

    • Donald
      March 23, 2010, 10:12 pm

      Yeah, and the British also have a pretty long record of being brutal oppressors–the Mau Mau didn’t kill anywhere near as many people as the British in suppressing them. And they were brutal in putting down the Palestinian revolt in the 30’s.

      Not that this justifies the Israelis. It’s odd how people think one can excuse one set of Western atrocities by pointing to another set of Western atrocities, but that particular “defense” of Israeli behavior seems to have become popular in the past few years. Chomsky and Finkelstein both used to condemn Israel by comparing its behavior to US treatment of Native Americans, but nowadays Israeli defenders use that as some weird sort of justification.

      It might work–no Western leader is going to relish the thought of being judged by the human rights standards we use to condemn our enemies.

      • RoHa
        March 23, 2010, 10:46 pm

        “Yeah, and the British also have a pretty long record of being brutal oppressors–the Mau Mau didn’t kill anywhere near as many people as the British in suppressing them. And they were brutal in putting down the Palestinian revolt in the 30’s. ”

        As I said, the British have experience of terrorism.

        (And the “Irish” in America who sent funds to the IRA can think themselves damn lucky they got away with it.)

      • eGuard
        March 24, 2010, 3:54 am

        Not only did the British fight terrorism in Northern Ireland. They also made peace there.

  5. Danaa
    March 23, 2010, 9:33 pm

    Paul, I noticed that the official communique alluded to passports being copied during transit through “airports”. No specifics given, though most would assume Ben Gurion airport. There was also a comment regarding the british dual citizens having had their passports out of their possession for, like, 20 minutes. No statement where or when. Some of these people did not leave israel for quite a few years.

    have you been able to come across any more details on this?

    • Danaa
      March 23, 2010, 10:00 pm

      OK, here’s an article from the Guardian. The passports were apparently taken for cloning at either ben Gurion airport or at Israeli agencies outside the country wherever israeli officials are.

      link to

      So, are we to surmise that essentially anyone who went to israel at any time and has lost possession of their foreign passport for more than a few minutes is in danger of having had their identity cloned? just think of all the israeli-american dual citizens! israel’s intelligence agencies must have well over 100K forged passports in their possession right now, which can be used as they please.

      I wonder whether this is the first time that a state was actually found guilty of doing what Israel just did. If I were Britain I’d cut off diplomatic relations.

    • eGuard
      March 24, 2010, 4:18 am

      Ben Gurion airport is first suspected place. But “Israel’s security techniques” is an export business too. These Israeli services are installed at airports worldwide for local authorities. Wouldn’t the Mossad just love to look over a shoulder reading this passport-and-traveling information?

  6. annie
    March 23, 2010, 10:14 pm


    Members of the Israeli parliament likened the British government to “anti-Semitic dogs” and demanded the expulsion of Britain’s military attaché in Tel Aviv after erupting in fury over the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat in London.

    “I think the British are being hypocritical, and I do not wish to insult dogs here, since some dogs show true loyalty, [but] who gave the British the right to judge us on the war on terror?” said Arieh Eldad, a right-wing member of the Knesset.

    The canine theme was taken up by a second MP, Michael Ben-Ari, who said: “Dogs are usually loyal, the British may be dogs, but they are not loyal to us. They seem to be loyal to the anti-Semitic establishment.

    “We have learned that a dog must be called by its name. This is anti-Semitism disguised as anti-Zionism.”

    this is almost unfathomable.

    • Chaos4700
      March 23, 2010, 10:26 pm

      Great. I hope there’s juicy quotes for the BBC to pick up and report on. Some footage or sound bites would be a big bonus, too.

  7. VR
    March 23, 2010, 10:36 pm

    “… who gave the British the right to judge us on the war on terror?” ”

    What war on terror? I see a murderous colonial occupation, and they are STILL trying to pass this off as some war on terror, it is simply amazing. Actually passing off all of this activity in the ME as a war on terror in bullshit, but this is the duble ripe type of bullshit that makes the Israelis specifically repugnant.

  8. Taxi
    March 24, 2010, 12:34 am

    It would be interesting to see how badly Israeli tourism bombs (pardon the pun) this summer. Especially from countries whose passports were cloned and so cynically abused.

    No one in europe now wants to even get a transit connection through Ben Gurion airport. The British government gave out a travel advisory warning its citizens that:

    “… possibility that your passport details could be captured for improper uses while your passport is out of your control. The risk applies in particular to passports without biometric security features. We recommend that you only hand your passport over to third parties including Israeli officials when absolutely necessary.”

    Some spy-writer (missed his name due to late tuning-in) was on BBC radio this afternoon claiming that one of the tricks that mossad uses to gain foreign passport info is getting young Israeli girls to befriend europeans on beaches and resorts, then steal their passports overnight, returning them the following day after they’ve been photographed. Apparently they have thousands and thousands of clone passports on hand.

    Yeah I reckon Israel’s re-branding campaign with their caption: ‘Size Doesn’t Matter’ and “We Invented the Cherry Tomato” just got flushed down elephant toilet.

    I reckon too that Israel will not be a desirable tourist attraction for many europeans this summer.

    The european christians who feel obliged and compelled to visit the holy land, will now be doing it with great fear and trepidation.

    Tsk tsk tsk Israel.

    • Chaos4700
      March 24, 2010, 3:38 am

      It must be nice, to watch the news from a sane country that actually cares when Israel willfully endangers that country’s citizens so that it can carry out assassination campaigns.

  9. MHughes976
    March 24, 2010, 6:30 pm

    Thanks for kind words, Chaos, but we’re not as sane as all that. If any other ME country had organised assassinations from our soil and endangered our nationals we’d have broken off diplomatic relations altogether, I think. Our Prime Minister has been induced to say things like ‘We stand with Israel in good times and bad’ (he might not repeat this too loudly over the next few days) and both the main political parties have organisations called ‘Friends of Israel’ within them who raise considerable sums of money and threaten withdrawal of funds in certain circumstances, for instance if the word ‘disproportionate’ is mentioned. Politicians, journalists and writers who will praise Israel can easily be found.
    I have a feeling that the Israeli politician who called us disloyal dogs knows of instances where Mossad helped tip us off against the IRA – and look how we repay them. In the 80s British discussions of terrorism tended to be founded on the idea that we and Israel were holding the two front-line positions of the western world against the bomb-throwing barbarians and the legacy of that idea remains with us.

    • Chaos4700
      March 24, 2010, 7:20 pm

      Well at least you have a chance to actually put people in office who aren’t bought and sold on the free market, like US politicians. The fact that anyone can even talk openly about Israel’s crimes and not get blackballed completely by the mainstream media over there is an accomplishment compared to the United States — where even health care reform lives and dies at the hands of AIPAC.

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