The Israel Lobby, campus edition, Cal State Northridge

A sampling of "Reflections of 2009" from the Facebook page of Students for Israel at California State University/Northridge:

4) Our members serve as AIPAC campus liaisons/cadre members, Hillel interns, CAMERA Fellows, Hasbara Fellows, StandWithUs Emerson Fellows, DavidProject Fellows, and are involved with other activities on campus.

5) We sent various CSI delegates to pro-Israel conferences and trainings in Boston, Washington DC, Los Angeles, Israel, Oxnard, San Francisco, San Diego.

6) Three representatives will be attending the Hagshama Student Leadership Summit in Miami, FL in late January 2010.

7) We’ve established connections and work closely with AIPAC, StandWithUs, Hasbara, CAMERA, Legacy Heritage, Hagshama, The DavidProject…

With Peace,
CSUN Students for Israel
Peace. Love. Israel.

The president of the Israel Club is Jonathan "Yoni" Mann, a paid Emerson Fellow.

The hasbara and astro-turfing on my campus is seriously too overwhelming to even fathom and document. I’m President of Students for Justice in Palestine at CSUN, and I can’t even keep track of all the times I’ve been smeared and harassed by the lobbyists.

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Yoni with his Israel Lobby buddy NY Congressman Eliot Engel at "Israel Amplified, AEPi Convention, BBR, UJC General Assembly 2009"

One case in point is being censored at my campus newspaper, the Daily Sundial.  Last year I wrote an article called, "Shut up About the Two-State Solution".  It was a plea for the one-state solution, as in my eyes the "peace process" is a sham and 2 states are no longer possible. Here’s one choice quote from "Roman Titerman" from the comments section:

The one-state solution screams “death to Israel, death to Israel.” It appears the author has a lot in common with All-Hailed & Glorified President Ahmadinejad of Iran, who believes and publicly denies the tragedy of the Holocaust.

The last line of my article says, "Stay tuned for Part two: Israel and Palestine already live in one state. Let’s make it official (and fair)." But part two never happened. The lobbyists, including Yoni and Cayley "It is for these individuals that the fictionalized term “Palestinian people” now applies" Lazarus (who happens to be a CAMERA lobbyist) pressed my editor and the publisher at the Sundial. 

So the Sundial shut me out on this subject for the rest of last semester. I snuck through a report from my Gaza trip earlier this semester; but after that I was informed the Sundial won’t allow any author to mention Israel or Palestine in any article for the rest of the semester!

Irvine 11 Smear
"Make this your default profile pic and join the fight against censorship. As students, we should not be told who we can and cannot listen to"

That’s the caption to this image on Yoni’s facebook page. Strategically "tagged" is the CSUN’s student body Vice President.  Also seemingly strategic is the similarity to the green revolution "Where’s My Vote" Facebook pics of recent memory.

Hilariously funny are some of the responses of those unwittingly tagged and caught up in this hasbara nightmare:

Martel Okonji: sure wont…

Victor Manuel Diaz: What made you tag me homie? Lol. Great seeing you at THE SPOT the other night lol.

I went to this website, wewontbesilenced.com, which is actually about silencing the Irvine 11, the members of the Muslim Student Union disciplined for disrupting the Michael Oren speech at UC-Irvine.  Among other things, it informs students that:

MSU unveiled a scary reality: under current university policies, MSU and other radicals can with relative ease control what we listen to on campus. This reality must change.

A cursory google search for "Jonathan Mann" turns up a site dedicated to launching "Israel Peace Week"; apparently some sort of counter to Israel Apartheid Week and Palestinian Awareness Week. In the "History" section:

Israel Peace Week began as the vision of five ambitious college students from universities around North America. After completing Hasbara Fellowships, an intensive Israel activism trip based in Jerusalem, these students felt compelled to proactively demonstrate the truth in the face of a wave of hateful propaganda on college campuses. Since the launching of the initiative in early February of 2010, many respected universities and organizations have offered support and joined the mission.

These Hasbara graduates weren’t influenced by their paychecks or indoctrination. No, they were simply "compelled" in a grassroots way to challenge the campus Israel-haters like myself!

Mann is listed on the website as the "regional coordinator" for Israel Peace Week at CSUN. And listed on the hasbara group’s page is "resources," aka links to other lobbyists, including: John "God made the holocaust happen to the Jews for their own good" Hagee’s Christians United for Israel and The Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs(!)

Other examples of Israel lobby activity at CSUN: pictures on Yoni’s page of him at AIPAC lobbyist training conferences, "Holocaust Remembrance" events at CSUN run by Israel club, and Roz Rothstein of StandWithUs smearing the Shministim when we hosted them at CSUN.

This is just a small sampling of one lobbyist’s work on one campus. The full extent of this web is endless.

I’ll end this article with a cute pic of our favorite campus lobbyist:

untitled
A real photo of Yoni speaking at an "Embassy of Israel, Washington" lectern (from his Facebook page)

amazing…

Posted in Israel Lobby, Israel/Palestine | Tagged

{ 108 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. aparisian says:

    These lobbists or the Jihadis of the Jewish AlQaeda are misguided.

  2. Oscar says:

    Fascinating piece, Joseph. If the following is the case, why don’t you post your censored article on Mondoweiss?

    The last line of my article says, “Stay tuned for Part two: Israel and Palestine already live in one state. Let’s make it official (and fair).” But part two never happened. The lobbyists, including Yoni and Cayley “It is for these individuals that the fictionalized term “Palestinian people” now applies” Lazarus (who happens to be a CAMERA lobbyist) pressed my editor and the publisher at the Sundial.

    So the Sundial shut me out on this subject for the rest of last semester. I snuck through a report from my Gaza trip earlier this semester; but after that I was informed the Sundial won’t allow any author to mention Israel or Palestine in any article for the rest of the semester!

  3. Rehmat says:

    PITY – after spending millions of dollars annually and having a force of over 100,000 Hasbara “laptop idiots” (the count was reported during 2006 war on Hizb’Allah) – the Israelis are losing – at least on the internet.

    link to rehmat1.wordpress.com

  4. Actually, your vanity is amazing.

    You still have free speech. You are not arrested for speaking your mind, accurate or innaccurate. The publication also has free speech. They cannot be forced to publish material that they choose not to. For you to orchestrate a movement that would compel them to publish what is outside of their policies or standards, would be a violation of free speech, a political mobbish approach.

    If you want to publish, spend your own money, or raise your own money, or write a free blog.

    The “right” to disrupt a speech. You make me laugh.

    • Donald says:

      Richard, this is similar to the reasoning one would use to have you banned.

    • Donald says:

      Also, of course, you pay no attention to the wisdom of the policy of the Sundial. I suspect you’re happy with the media world the way it is, where dissenters are limited to blogs and alternative publications.

      • Citizen says:

        Yes, Witty is very content with the MSM bias and power hold on the issues discussed on this blog. The White Rose would not be in Witty’s camp. If the tables were reversed, he’d be dissenting like crazy, even pushing people to get up and shout down
        the speaker.

    • Chaos4700 says:

      The “right” to disrupt a speech. You make me laugh.

      You mean like what the David Project engaged in? And you endorsed?

    • VR says:

      “You still have free speech. You are not arrested for speaking your mind, accurate or innaccurate.”

      Yes RW, your “position” (head up ass) is as inaccurate as your spelling. We want equal platform, that has always been the position from the beginning of “free speech,” not merely behind a lectern atop an empty canyon. This is a public institution, not a private party. Of course, at the current rate and direction it may be totally privatized soon, so that certain moneyed interest groups can entrench into what was public property.

  5. otto says:

    Where do does the money come for all these fellows at dozens(?) of universities? Even small stipends are a large cash outlay when multiplied up.

    • “Where does the money come from?” Susan Wexner, The Limited electronicintifad dot .net/v2/article10847.shtml

      Larry and Andrew Hochberg
      Sandra and Lawrence Post

      Charles and Lynn Shusterman link to israelcc.org (financiers of Israel on Campus Coalition)

      UJF, United Jewish Federation, makes an annual appeal; my understanding is that UJF mailings arrive at the home of every identifiable Jew, whether or not supportive of the UJF agenda — whether or not cognizant of the UJF agenda. Many Jews ‘give’ because it’s Jewish, because it’s expected, because mother would have done…. So reports my not-a-zionist Jewish friend who DOES receive the UJF begging letters, but does not contribute.

      “Where does the money come from?” Think Madoff. Yes, some people, mostly Jews, lost a lot of money and are bellyaching to high heaven and demanding that US offices work to compensate them for their losses. But a lot of Madoff’s investors received revenue streams from M’s pyramid scheme. HOw much of that was used to fund the propaganda campaign whose result may well be the destruction of the USofA?

      • Citizen says:

        Yeah, it seems those investors only whine when they suffered a net loss–now they can fight amongst themselves for what’s left–none of them ever gave a shit about the USA.

  6. many dangers for Jews in pursuing this well-funded agenda:
    ~eventually, enough people will catch on and fight back. the charge of antisemitism having been exhausted, it will no longer barb, may become a badge of honor. Continued efforts to censor “antisemitic” speech, such as that presaged by the US Office to Monitor and Combat Antisemitism link to state.gov will have the effect of pressurizing resentment, bottling up outrage. Eventually, it will burst and explode. Kristallnacht was, indeed, a state-run event; it carefully controlled to be of very short duration. It’s important to realize that the German people had been expressing resentment of Jewish power in Germany in various ways. Their actions were not only bottom-up actions, that is, not sponsored or incited by the NASDP, the NASDP attempted to squelch such actions. Thus, NASDP-sponsored Kristallnacht can be thought of as an attempted ‘controlled explosion’ to relieve the pressure and to send a warning back off. Today’s zionist hasbarists should take a warning: back off.

    ~with Kramer entrenched at Harvard; with neocons led by Robert Lieber slicing off significant chunks of influence at Georgetown University, America’s Jesuit bastion fer gawd’s ache, with neocon voices running the show at Columbia; with Whoreowitz fingering any professor who refuses to comply with the hasbara agenda, USofAians will begin to perceive a Jewish takeover of USofA’s elite institutions.

    If they see it happening here, the connection might be formed that German complaints of Jews exercising disproportionate influence over German universities maybe was real. If that is so, then the simple equation, “Holocaust = Hitler” will be seen as too simplistic: Hitler may have done evil things, but there is more to the story.

    The fullness of the story–the provocations, the resentments, the patterns and causal factors, must be explored if we truly mean it when we say, Never Again.

    • LeaNder says:

      What an utter nonsense, Psycho. I am not sure what I dislike more, comments like yours or Richard Witty drowning out every other voice in the latest-comment-section every time I look. I just got a glimpse of a comment by one of my favorites but the moment I wanted to access it, it had gone drowned out by Richard multiple comments.

      I feature that would allow following special people’s comments would be very convenient.

    • Donald says:

      Oh, lovely, now we’ve got some aptly named psycho justifying Nazi pogroms.

      There are some good comments here, and then there are the Zionist idolators and the not-so-closeted anti-semites. Phil might be better off without a comment section. He could have the best commenters post on the front page (people like Shmuel and others) and dump the rest of us.

      • Citizen says:

        Sorry, I don’t see any justification of Nazi pogroms going on here.

        You mean this?

        “many dangers for Jews in pursuing this well-funded agenda:
        ~eventually, enough people will catch on and fight back. the charge of antisemitism having been exhausted, it will no longer barb, may become a badge of honor. Continued efforts to censor “antisemitic” speech, such as that presaged by the US Office to Monitor and Combat Antisemitism link to state.gov will have the effect of pressurizing resentment, bottling up outrage. Eventually, it will burst and explode.”

        • Donald says:

          No, citizen, I mean the stuff immediately following, where he starts making excuses for Kristallnacht. To be specific, this part–

          “Kristallnacht was, indeed, a state-run event; it carefully controlled to be of very short duration. It’s important to realize that the German people had been expressing resentment of Jewish power in Germany in various ways. Their actions were not only bottom-up actions, that is, not sponsored or incited by the NASDP, the NASDP attempted to squelch such actions. Thus, NASDP-sponsored Kristallnacht can be thought of as an attempted ‘controlled explosion’ to relieve the pressure and to send a warning back off. ”

          This is some weird anti-semitic fantasyland and it’s ugly. One can despise AIPAC’s role in US policy without sinking to this level.

        • “making excuses for Kristallnacht”

          no, laying out the chronology and facts of when and how Kristallnacht occurred.
          The facts speak for themselves and, to the best of my knowledge and belief, are accurate as stated.
          It is an interpretation to state that “Kristallnacht can be thought of as an attempted ‘controlled explosion’ to relieve the pressure and to send a warning back off. ” Kristallnacht occurred in a very short and rigidly controlled span of time. Why? Why not let the mobs go wild until they had spent their rage? For nearly 5 years NASDP did, in fact, work quite hard to stanch the population’s expressions of rage against Jewish people; that is a fact.

      • stop stop stop. stop and think before you jump to “oooh, justifying Nazis….”

        nothing can justify deliberate killing of another human being.

        IF serious minded people earnestly desire that the same thing never happen again, than it is extremely important that ALL of the causal factors that culminated in that evil act be fully known and understood, so that their repetition can be avoided.

        “Accurate scholarship will unearth the whole offense….
        Find what drove a culture mad….
        What huge imago made a psychopathic god….
        You and I and the people know what all schoolchildren learn:
        Those to whom evil is done
        Do evil in return.”

        The Hitler Trap says, “Hitler was an uniquely evil human being, therefore, Jews were killed.”
        I maintain that that is a horrible mistake to make; it’s corollary to the Goldhagen hypothesis. The mistakeness of it is that nothing is learned about human beings and the dynamics that played out in a way that resulted in them behaving in ways contrary to the most basic norms of civility, and of other good people being horribly harmed by them.
        If you hold onto the Hitler Trap, then you must have, or invent, another “Hitler;” Ahmadinejad has been assigned that role, quite undeservedly, and to the detriment of real problem solving, of the good of the people of Israel, of the good of Jewish people everywhere, of the good of the people of Iran, and to the detriment of the people of the USofA.

        LeaNder, criticize my inability to properly articulate the concept, but to resort to an accusation of “justifying Nazis” is to fail to grapple with the dynamic that played out, and to recognize patterns in the dynamic.

        Thousands of extremely well-funded, energetic, and impassioned young people are being incentivized to disseminate a dishonest message that has hatred and demonization at its core. Mike Evans, author of The Final Move: Beyond Iraq: The Final Solution While the World Sleeps – which should alert simply from its title –http://www.amazon.com/Final-Move-Beyond-Iraq-Solution/dp/1599791889/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267981869&sr=1-2 spends the opening pages of this pos tome demonizing Islam, characterizing Islam as violent by its very nature; drawing a cruel distinction between Ishmael and Isaac, and demanding that the USofA join “Isaac” and his descendants in demonizing the evil Ishmael and his descendants. Evans is a consultant to Netanyahu and a participant in the David Project; he appears on US college campuses and poisons the minds of young people with his hateful notions.

        When you drop poison in a well, do you think it disappears? Is it rendered harmless by blasting as an evildoer the person who reports that, “Someone dropped poison in the well.”
        What if a mind is poisoned?
        What if a thousand minds are poisoned, young, vibrant minds with access to a thousand other young minds? What hateful dynamic will they set in motion? How shall it be stopped? If you blast away at people like me he try to head off the evil done by the poisoners of wells, you make it all that more inevitable that eventually someone will become so outraged that the entire town’s wells have been poisoned, that they will acquire the power to destroy the poisoners.

        Whale away at me if it makes you feel better, but it will not solve the problem.

        I see a pattern, a pattern whose beginnings are being played out by young pro-Israelis on USofAian college campuses, and that have at their root the dehumanization of an Other; the laws of physics suggest that there will be an equal and opposite reaction to that act of dehumanization. I see the USofA as the next place where that pattern is forming. If the pattern plays out as it has in the past, then many Jewish people will be hideously harmed because, in this instance, Jewish people set the pattern in motion. Many, many USofAians will also be harmed; they may include my children. WE MUST NOT LET THAT HAPPEN! If I do nothing, I will have participated in my own children’s harm.

        How to stop it? Is declaring that “Ahmadinejad is Hitler” going to somehow remove those thousands of molecules of poison from the well, and of hate from those minds?

        • Donald says:

          You don’t seem so opposed to hate, psychopath–you are opposed to hatred of Islam and warn against saying that Ahmadinejad is Hitler, and I agree with that and then you turn around and start ranting about how Kristallnacht was an understandable attempt at blowing off steam that was building up because the ordinary Germans, poor dears, were upset at “Jewish power”. Yeah, right, the German Jews had so much power they couldn’t stop the Nazi rise, Kristallnacht, or later, the Holocaust. No wonder those Germans were worried. I’ve read Finkelstein’s “The Holocaust Industry”, which was praised by Raul Hilberg, so I’m not a fan of Goldhagen. But I somehow doubt that Hilberg had or Finkelstein has your take on Kristallnacht.

          Phil really either needs to keep a close eye on this blog or just shut down the comments–he’s got an uphill fight talking about the Lobby and when he’s got commenters who sound sympathetic to German antisemitism in the 30′s his uphill climb is more like an attempt at scaling a 10,000 foot cliff coated with grease.

        • Donald, I think we’re getting closer to a meeting of the minds.
          Unfortunately, I can’t pursue this right now; I’m on deadline.

          If I log in tomorrow and discover that my rights to speak on this blog have not been suspended because I spoke unpleasant facts, then I will attempt to respond to your comment.

          auf wiedersehen.

        • Avi says:

          I think there’s a communications breakdown here. It sounds to me like psychoticgod is having a hard time articulating his point, one that isn’t necessarily anti-Semitic.

      • syvanen says:

        Donald says:

        He could have the best commenters post on the front page (people like Shmuel and others) and dump the rest of us.

        Wrong. You should not be dumped. If the price to hear from you is to also have to skip pschopath’s curious ravings, then I think it is worth it.

        • VR says:

          “…AIPAC campus liaisons/cadre members, Hillel interns, CAMERA Fellows, Hasbara Fellows, StandWithUs Emerson Fellows, DavidProject Fellows…”

          The issue is that we know who is driving these assaults on campuses across America, we do not want to surmise that it is the entire Jewish population. This is the distinct flavor of antisemitism.

          However what we want to do is shut down this rabid settler state colonialism and its ignorant, ideologically blind, totally lacking morals crew, who pose as representing the Jewish people. We want the current course of Zionism halted completely, eighty six it, dead, gone, finished to rise no more. We will not tolerate this murderous settler state colonialism to be passed off as Jewish, in any sense of the word.

          All this post shows is that these individuals (aptly described above) who support these ever active and increasing atrocities think might makes right, and only money speaks – this is endemic to this system. You can rest assured that we will do what it takes, and for emphasis we will hang our bodies on this promise.

        • MHughes976 says:

          I don’t want to see anyone dumped unless there is a reasonable ground to suppose that they are intent on disrupting rather than contributing to the discussion.
          And I don’t think that psycho is raving. I think that his ‘difficult to articulate’ point is something to do with mutual alienation and suspicion between human groups and the moral confusion that results.
          Knacht was a moment of state-sponsored terrorism and abandonment of the rule of law. All such moments are a threat both to domestic security and to international peace.

  7. I’m surprised that you personally would sink that low to propose a threatening approach to my comments. You might not find them clear, or agree, but all of my posts are civil and substantive.

    “happy”. I’m realistic. If you want to do something, do it. To make a successful publication requires multiple things. Its not an entitlement.

    It takes skillful leadership (publisher and editor)
    It takes good, appealing, legal writing (meaning authors willing to put in the time, and if needed be compensated).
    It takes access to printing presses.
    It takes a physical distribution channel to get paper from one physical place to another.
    And, it takes a commercial distribution channel (to get paper to end users).
    It takes money.

    Blogs don’t take that. They take attracting readership, editing and writing mostly.

    If he wants to be published, he has to choose from the tangile options available, responsibly.

    Don’t keep him a child.

    • Citizen says:

      Thanks for the lecture, Witty. We didn’t know money (especially corporate MSM money) greatly enhances effectively getting out and spreading
      the word. We will write it a thousand times on the chalk board, OK? Now, can we have some of those Hershey kisses on your desk?

    • Polly says:

      Richard, you’re pointing out that if somebody is being gagged in the school publication, he still has the freedom to start his own paper and should stop whining?
      Just because this is a “fact” doesn’t stop it from being completely unreasonable and a garbage point – unless you’re only reason for posting it is to AGGRAVATE!
      It’s your childish shifting of the goalposts to suit whatever position you want that causes the aggravation on this site and you know it.

      • Editors are a reality. The requirements of publishing are a reality.

        Ask Phil. He’s written for others, and here he is editor/publisher.

        He makes judgments as to what is worthy of publication and what is not. He does not publish every article that is submitted, on some basis (other than accuracy).

    • Donald says:

      I suppose I’m the threatener. Actually, Richard, I was just pointing out that by your logic you could be banned as many people here wish would happen. You seem willing enough to defend the banning of someone else from that paper, but here you are getting all touchy when someone points out the same logic could be applied to you. (Personally, I think it’s good on the whole having a representative of the silliest sort of pseudo-liberal Zionist cluelessness around, since that’s the attitude that dominates the MSM.)

      • “Defend the banning of someone else by the paper”.

        Phil has the power to yield to the mob, or the power to make this site a site of actual discussion.

        “the silliest sort of pseudo-liberal Zionist cluelessness around”.

        So much self-talk Donald.

        If you had the goal of making change, you’d consider starting from where things are.

        I don’t watch television, and I read at length both the mass media and the alternative media. If my conclusions and hopes reflect the mass media, then it is a sign that the mass media is sober and reasonable, as I believe my conclusions are as well.

        I am moved to compassion, and am NOT moved to “solidarity”. Rational.

        • Shingo says:

          So when an editor blocks a syory, he/she is ecrcising thier rights, but if Phil were to ban you it would be yieldiing to the mob?

          Your hypocrisu has so many dimensions to it.

        • I’ve submitted a number of articles (by others) to Phil that he has not posted. Is he censoring me by that?

          It is his right as editor to publish or not.

          In a college publication, I don’t know what the boundaries are.

          Again, if I could take the time to publish under my own publication at my own (collective) expense, Joseph can as well. And, if you choose, you could help him.

          That would be his and your freedom of expression. There is no right to publish in another’s publication.

    • VR says:

      “I’m surprised that you personally would sink that low to propose a threatening approach to my comments.”

      I am surprised I missed this RW. A point in fact is that no one can sink lower than your comments.

  8. Julian says:

    “Fifty-five percent of Palestine was “given” to the Jewish State even though Jews owned only 8 percent of the land at the time. The “Arab State” would get 42 percent even though they owned 92 percent of the land.”

    Typical Palaprop. You are including the public land controlled by the British, Bedouin grazing land and waste land as privately owned by the Arabs. The Arabs privately owned approx 28.5% of the land.

    • Julian,
      Thats still more than they got.

    • Avi says:

      Public land controlled by the British Empire is not its own to give out. Britain certainly did not purchase it. You talk about palprop….YOUR shilling is Ziocane induced nonsense.

      Define “WASTE LAND”!

      And surprise surprise, Dick agrees with you.

      You hacks haven’t the slightest sense of irony, let alone a sound basis of academic, historical foundation.

    • Citizen says:

      Yeah, it was a fair deal for the Pals. What’s to complain about?

    • tree says:

      Julian as usual is stating an outright lie.

      The British government in Mandate Palestine submitted a very detailed report, “A Survey of Palestine. Prepared in December 1945 and January 1946 for the Information of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry” using the latest figures from 1943 to compile their statistics. This is from their report:

      The share of Arabs and Jews in land ownership in Palestine was, as of the 1st April, 1943, 24,670,455 dunums owned by Arabs and 1,514,247 dunums owned by Jews. (A dunum is 1,000 square meters. Four dunums equal one acre.)

      Available with a table of land ownership here. This percentage is within the range cited of 92 percent of the land owned privately by Arabs. I’m sure Julian won’t return to cite is erroneous source of 28%.

      Also, from the same source I linked above:

      Subcommittee 2 of the Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestine Question stated in its report to the United Nations General Assembly the following:

      “Closely connected with the distribution of population is the factor of land ownership in the proposed Jewish State. The bulk of the land in the Arab State, as well as in the proposed Jewish State, is owned and possessed by Arabs. This is clear from the following statistics furnished to the Sub-Committee by the United Kingdom representative, showing the respective percentages of Arab and Jewish ownership of land in the various sub-districts of Palestine.(4)

      (Table follows.)

      Note: The balance represents waste lands and lands under public ownership, consisting mainly of grazing lands attached to villages.”

      In other words, even within the small amount of land designated by the British government as “public land”, it was land owned communally by villages, not land under ownership of the Mandate Palestine government.

      And, likewise, even the Jewish National Fund acknowldged that most of the land was Palestinian owned.

      From the same source as above, citing the JNF(Jewish National Fund) report on Jewish villages, written in 1949:

      Of the entire area of the State of Israel only about 300,000- 400,000 dunams – apart from the desolate rocky area of the southern Negev, at present quite unfit for cultivation – are State Domain which the Israel Government took over from the Mandatory regime. The J.N.F. and private Jewish owners possess under two million dunams. Almost all the rest belongs at law to Arab owners, many of whom have left the country. The fate of these Arabs will be settled when the terms of the peace treaties between Israel and her Arab neighbours are finally drawn up. The J.N.F., however, cannot wait until then to obtain the land it requires for its pressing needs. It is, therefore, acquiring part of the land abandoned by the Arab owners, through the Government of Israel, the sovereign authority in Israel.

      • tree says:

        For anyone wanting to read the Survey of Palestine, or skim its tables, it is available in full, two volumes, in scanned format here:

        <a href="link to palestineremembered.com;. A Survey of Palestine

        Not only is this kind of information important to provide the true facts, having these older sources allows those trying to get their message across to also clearly show that most hasbarists are incredibly unreliable sources of information, and, like Julian, either make stuff up themselves or pass on uncritically stories made up by others. They can’t keep to the truth and still make their case so they constantly have to lie and distort.

    • Shingo says:

      “‘The Arabs privately owned approx 28.5% of the land. “‘

      Wrong. It was 50%.

  9. kapok says:

    Way to dig JG. You’ve got Witty apoplectic :)

  10. Cheryl says:

    Keep up the good work, Joseph! You are in good company:

    link to frontpagemag.com
    or link to bikyamasr.com
    and keep connecting with mondoweiss, american friends service committee, U.S. Campaign to End the Occupation, Sabeel,Jewish Voices for Peace, Churches for Mideast Peace etc. etc. You are not alone.

    • James says:

      ditto joseph…. these folks can’t stand the light, or heat… the resentment from the local zionists here at mondoweiss tells you when you’re getting thru, in spite of their attempts to blow any view off that hasn’t been fabricated in zionistland…

  11. radii says:

    take it easy on Witty, kids … he’s having quite a struggle swimming upstream now that the current is against him and gaining in strength … he is frustrated and, being older, losing steam … he tosses out and arm here and there as he backstrokes against the flow with the realization slowly dawning on him and his ilk that pretty soon the current will sweep their tired old ideas away

    • Tired ideas like self-governance?

      • Shingo says:

        “Tired ideas like self-governance”

        This conning from someone who opposes self determination for the Palestinians in Gaza.

        • That is a lie Shingo. I support self-determination for Gazans or West Bank or combinations.

          I would say that in urging a single state, you oppose self-governance for Gazans and West Bank Palestinians, as they will be swamped by the unleashed desire of Israelis for West Bank property, that in a democratic single state they will be prohibited from excluding on any ethnic or cultural grounds.

        • Shingo says:

          “That is a lie Shingo. I support self-determination for Gazans or West Bank or combinations.”

          No it’s not.  You support the presence of the UN in Gaza but not Israel. You support the port in Gaza being controlled by an international body, not Palestinians.

          “I would say that in urging a single state, you oppose self-governance for Gazans and West Bank Palestinians”

          That woudl only be true under apartheid, which I oppose, but you evidently support.

        • When Palestine becomes a state, I support it being responsible for the management of all its institutions.

          Until then, in the current state of declared war, there are consequences, that can only be practically mediated by the UN.

          If you desire Gazan reconstruction, you will invest in the paths that are possible and not boycott their reconstruction by insisting on a fantasy political solution via agitation.

        • Shingo says:

          “When Palestine becomes a state, I support it being responsible for the management of all its institutions.”

          How convenient. So for as long as Israel prevents a Palestinian state form emerging, you can continue to advicate that Palestinains be treated as sub human and blame it on them.

          Very clever.

          “Until then, in the current state of declared war, there are consequences, that can only be practically mediated by the UN.”

          Since when does the UN only have enforecement powers and obligations to non-state enetities?

          “If you desire Gazan reconstruction, you will invest in the paths that are possible and not boycott their reconstruction by insisting on a fantasy political solution via agitation. ”

          I am Witty. I am investing the the path in a fleet of Turkish ships, hopefully escorted by a well armed Turkish nazy and even the odd military aircraft sortie, to make sure the ships arrive in Gaza safe and sound.

          Do you think this will agitate Israel? To bad. Teh blockade is illegal and as such, Israel have no say in the matter.

        • aparisian says:

          Until then, in the current state of declared war, there are consequences, that can only be practically mediated by the UN.

          The UN? are you joking man? The UN is the US. And even so when Israel respected the UN resolutions?

        • Shingo says:

          That’s the whole point aparisian. Don’t you see that this is what Witty wants?

          Israel gets away with firing rockets and shells at UN facilities and compounds, and this sits well with Witty, because he knows that whiel the US pull the strings, teh UN will never have the authority to return fire.

          This is why he so afrauid of the Turkish fleet and the possibility of confrontation, becasue Turkey won’t back down and they do have the firepower to go toe to toe with Israel.

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  13. Shingo says:

    “When Palestine becomes a state, I support it being responsible for the management of all its institutions.”

    In other words,  What you are endorsing is that the Palestinians deserve inferior treatment because Israel has successful prevented a Palestinian state from emerging.

    ” Until then, in the current state of declared war, there are consequences, that can only be practically mediated by the UN.”

    But according to you, the state of declared war should not affect Israel.

    “If you desire Gazan reconstruction, you will invest in the paths that are possible and not boycott their reconstruction by insisting on a fantasy political solution via agitation.”

    There are multiple paths that you refuse to accept.  One of them is the breaking of the blockade by another state like Turkey, which you oppose.

    You are the one supporting the blockade, which is the only thing preventing reconstruction. You’re the one who insists that the status quo will yield results.  As Einstein says, that’s the definition of insanity.

    • You think finding a mutually acceptable way around the state of war is supporting the blockade?

      Odd. Its not close, that is true. But you are not working for it. You are only advocating for revolution, not reconciliation.

      You like the Turkish proposal of militarily breaking the blockade as preferable. You like war expanding to parties widely, those with very sophisticated and intense weapons, nuclear powers?

      You like the prospect of Israel requiring much more funding from the US and elsewhere dedicated to the then necessary larger scale of defense needed?

      You like the escalation of civilizational conflict, somehow as proof that the neo-conservative assertion of civilizational conflict isn’t a real prospect?

      Thats what pushing for the “rights” of a militia incorporate?

      Hamas has boycotted the PA. Urge them to reconcile and then to reconcile with Israel along the lines of the Arab League offer, and there will be real progress, progress that Israel cannot turn its back on.

      • Shingo says:

        “You think finding a mutually acceptable way around the state of war is supporting the blockade?”

        Do you or do you not support the blockade Witty?

        “Odd. Its not close, that is true. But you are not working for it. You are only advocating for revolution, not reconciliation.”

        You are not working for it either. Asking the Israeli’s nicely to lift the blockade won’t work. Even when they agreed to lift it in July 2008, they reneged on that agreement.

        “You like the Turkish proposal of militarily breaking the blockade as preferable. You like war expanding to parties widely, those with very sophisticated and intense weapons, nuclear powers?”

        Israel wouldn’t risk a war with Turkey Witty. Unlike Hamas and Hebollah, Turkey is a sophisticated military power, and as we know, Israel doesn’t pick fights with worthy opponents.

        Or are you accepting that Israel really is a psychopathic state?

        “You like the prospect of Israel requiring much more funding from the US and elsewhere dedicated to the then necessary larger scale of defense needed?”

        Israel don’t require it of defense, they require it to maintain domination and theu capacity to intimidate the region.

        “You like the escalation of civilizational conflict, somehow as proof that the neo-conservative assertion of civilizational conflict isn’t a real prospect?”

        Please translate this to English Witty.

        “Hamas has boycotted the PA. “

        False. The PA conducted a Washington and Israeli backed coup in 2007. The PA has no legitimacy.

        “Urge them to reconcile and then to reconcile with Israel along the lines of the Arab League offer, and there will be real progress, progress that Israel cannot turn its back on.”

        You’re insane Witty as well as delusional and a pathological liar. Hamas have stated they support the Arab League offer. So has Hezbollah and Iran for that matter.

        Israel and only Israel reject the offer. You’re lies are so thick, you don;t even know which way is up.

        • Shingo,
          Its a tragedy how oddly you read. “Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran has accepted the Arab League proposal”.

          “The PA conducted a coup” (not Hamas in Gaza. It might be both, but to suggest that Hamas achieved power “lawfully” is ludicrous).

          Israel won’t risk a war with Turkey, as Turkey won’t risk a war with Israel or the US. If there is any action that will push the US to loyalty to Israel it is the changing reality of genuine orchestrated assaults on Israel. The prospect of a regional war between major powers (analagous to 67 with Egypt) is not appealing.

          You revolutionaries. You talk big, and throw civilians into the meat grinder, in the name of objecting to civilians being harmed.

          Such careless thinking.

        • aparisian says:

          Witty your attempts to put Israel in the victim position is not coherent.
          Witty i want to ask you a simple question, can you just tell me what concessions Israel made in order to advance Peace in the region? Arabs offered peace treaty in 2002.

        • I hope that Israel will take up the offer before it leaves the table, assuming that it was in earnest, and not just bait.

          The largest events in the formation of Israeli political opinion between Oslo and the present has been Hamas, Hezbollah and other factions’ terror.

          It is an abstraction to me in rural New England. I don’t see terror anywhere. 911 was an abstraction.

          It is NOT an abstraction in Israel. The memory of the very long string of suicide bombings in the late 90′s and 00′s orchestrated by Hamas and other factions, but Hamas “leadership”, is not forgotten and won’t be, especially so long as the left and the radical Palestinian right adopt rationalization as their means of “peace”.

          When asked in association with the Goldstone report that named Hamas as war-criminal (in addition to Israel), Hamas first said “we’ll investigate”, then relented saying last week “it is our right as resistance to undertake any means necessary in our just cause”.

          So when “peaceful” activists like Ali Abunimeh or Omar Barghouti state “I don’t conduct terror, but I understand how many Palestinians are motivated to conduct terror, it is part of our resistance”, rather than state overtly and definitively “terror is wrong, counterproductive, hateful”, they don’t convince me.

          As you don’t convince me.

          That Phil ever flirts with “by any means necessary” represents a great bifurcation in our partially shared upbringing.

        • Those weren’t direct quotes of Ali Abunimeh or Omar Barghouti. I apologize if I misrepresented their views. I hope someone that knows them personally will clarify (and not as a rationalization).

        • Shingo says:

          It looks like I’m going to have to give you yet another history lesson Witty. Watch now as I use something completely unfamiliar to you…evidence.

          1. In February, 2006, Khaled Mashaal said: “(Hamas) cannot oppose the
          unified Arab stance expressed in the resolution passed by the Arab
          League summit. That resolution, approved in Beirut, speaks of
          recognizing Israel and normalizing relations with it in exchange for a
          full withdrawal and a solution to the refugee problem”.
          link to reut-institute.org
          “The following purports to summarize the contents of a letter sent by the Iranian government to the United States government in 2003, proposing broad concessions to the United States, including cessation of terror and adoption of the Arab peace initiative, in return for a softening of the US attitude to Iran. The letter was sent via the Swiss government, which represents US interests in Iran.”
          link to mideastweb.org

          2. The coup in Gaza.
          After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.”
          link to vanityfair.com
          “The prospect of a regional war between major powers (analagous to 67 with Egypt) is not appealing.”
          That’s a statement of the obvious, but Turkey won’t back down if Israel do something stupid to Turkey’s fleet in April.
          You revolutionaries. You talk big, and throw civilians into the meat grinder, in the name of objecting to civilians being harmed.”
          Says the man who cheers for Israel as they attack civilians and incinerate populations, especially women and children.

          You’re nothing but a vile and degusting hypocrite Witty,. Your name is mud on this forum and deservedly so. Your fear of Israel’s demise is palpable, because you can see the writing on the wall.

          But what do you care? You’re con comfortable here in the land of the goy to ever worry.

        • Shingo says:

          “I hope that Israel will take up the offer before it leaves the table, assuming that it was in earnest, and not just bait.”

          So what are they waiting for Witty? The offer’s been on the table for 7 years and Liberman has described it as dangerous to Israel

          Still, it is revealing that you regard a peace proposal as threatening, in much the same way as your fascist foreign minister.

          “The largest events in the formation of Israeli political opinion between Oslo and the present has been Hamas, Hezbollah and other factions’ terror.”
          Olso was a sideshow. Nothing concrete was agreed upon and Israel violated it immediately anyway.

          “ The memory of the very long string of suicide bombings in the late 90’s and 00’s orchestrated by Hamas and other factions, but Hamas “leadership”, is not forgotten and won’t be, especially so long as the left and the radical Palestinian right adopt rationalization as their means of “peace”.”

          Yes, let’s think only of the terror unleashed on Israel for 10 years, while Israel’s genocidal occupation has lasted at least 40.

          “it is our right as resistance to undertake any means necessary in our just cause”.

          That’s true. After all, Israel are the aggressors and the occupiers. Israel started the war of aggression, which also happens to be the ultimate war crime under the Geneva Conventions, unique insofar as all the crimes that eventuate from that war crime are part of it.

          So when “peaceful” activists like Ali Abunimeh or Omar Barghouti state “I don’t conduct terror, but I understand how many Palestinians are motivated to conduct terror, it is part of our resistance”, rather than state overtly and definitively “terror is wrong, counterproductive, hateful”, they don’t convince me.”

          What a shock!!

          Nothing would convince you because your ideological blind spot obliges you to blame the Palestinians for all the crimes that take place.
          “’That Phil ever flirts with “by any means necessary” represents a great bifurcation in our partially shared upbringing”

          Was the creation of Israel justified by any means necessary Witty? Do you agree with Israel Zangwill, who stated in 1905 in a speech to a Zionist group in Manchester that:

          “….. [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us.”?

        • Shingo says:

          “Those weren’t direct quotes of Ali Abunimeh or Omar Barghouti. I apologize if I misrepresented their views.”

          We’ve grwn accustomed to your fradulent claims Witty. Why should this be any different?

        • Do you think that I described their views accurately or innaccurately?

          “We’ve grown accustomed to your fraudulent claims.” Spoken like a true religious zealot. A good soldier.

        • “You regard a peace proposal as threatening”.

          Odd statement, as I’ve consistently advocated for the Arab League proposal here and elsewhere, that Israel proceed assuming that it is in earnest.

          Your incorporating Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran into the equation is what I thought was ludicrous.

          I’m amazed that the term “Ziocane” is used, when the self-medication of solidarity is so glaring.

        • Shingo says:

          “Do you think that I described their views accurately or innaccurately?”

          Do you have a source, or did you make those quotes up out of thin air, as you do with your other assertions?

          A zealot is someone who pretends to want equality and justice, yet prescribes one set of ruiles for one party and another set of rules for the other, then seees no contradiction or double standards.

          You’re every bit as fanatical as teh religious nuts in Hebron.

        • Shingo says:

          “Odd statement, as I’ve consistently advocated for the Arab League proposal here and elsewhere, that Israel proceed assuming that it is in earnest.”

          Correction, you’ve consistently claimed that the Palestinians are yet to accept and adopt the peace proposal, while ignoring that Israel has rejected it for 7 years. Furthermore, you implied that it might be a trap, which suggests a great deal of paranoia on your part.

          “’Your incorporating Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran into the equation is what I thought was ludicrous.”

          Why Witty? Because in your hermetically sealed Zionist bubble, Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran cannot possibly exist? It’s perfectly acceptabel for the Irgun and the Stern gang to have been melded into Israeli society, but you refuse to accept that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran coudl ever become or be seen as moderate?

          I know, the very concept of , Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran becomming minstream scares Zionfascists like you doesn’t it?

          “I’m amazed that the term “Ziocane” is used, when the self-medication of solidarity is so glaring.”

          We’re not amazed at all Witty, especially seeing as you’re the resident oligarch of Ziocane.

        • aparisian says:

          Witty, i don’t agree with you on Hezbollah because for me they are not a terrorist organisation but a legitimate resistance group. I also remind you that Hezbollah was created after the Lebanese invasion which resulted sufferance to unarmed Lebanese civilians. Lebanon never attacked Israel. French resistance which was considered terrorism in the past is today the honour of every french. If i were lebanese i would be proud of them.

          Witty, you should read some Ben-Gurions you seem to ignore the real strategy of the Zionist state.

          Contrary to what most people think Israel has a strategy, Israel is nothing than a colonialist enterprise, which doesn’t give a fuck about Peace, Israel is/will put obstacles for each peace attempt and you know why? because it didnt finish the work of the colonisation.

          Witty i m technically Jew like you and i found your repeated attempts to deny justice for Arabs an insult to the Jewish folks all over the world, Israel is threat to Jews, Israel confirms the reasons of the Jewish persecution. Wake upWitty, Jewish people must advocate peace and living together.

        • As Zionists would be mainstream/dominant in the proposed single state.

          So long as Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas insist that Israel not exist as a self-governing state, they are not seeking normalization, but war.

          That is not a moderate approach. That there are others that are less moderate is a very sad fact of life.

          I’m glad that Hamas is currently fighting jihadist groups in Gaza. They distinguish themselves in that way, even as their methods and goals have been similar.

          Hamas and Hezbollah chose not become mainstream, but powerful. “Zionfascists like you”. “The resident oligarch of Ziocane”.

          Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran can exist. They can contribute to the state of radical warmongering in the region and the world. They can adopt horrid modes of “dissent” in the name of “democracy” (that they never practice and suppress far more violently than Israel’s suppressions). (Please consider the Iranian purges of the early 80′s. I knew a couple revolutionaries that successfully removed the Shah from power, but were later purged and murdered for their democratic sentiments. Hopefully, Iran is less fanatic than it was. I had an Islamic Iranian landlord that treated me fairly.)

        • I’ve read far far more Ben Gurion than you. Were you aware that Ben Gurion LED a delegation to Arab leaders after WW1, to form a bi-national state?

          Hezbollah has been a terrorist organization in the past, responsible for a few major bombings in foreign capitals. They are/were also actively militarily suppressive of dissent from their party line in Lebanon. Its worth reading before propagating.

          If you are a Jew, be proud of it and participate in its community. “Technically a Jew”. You can participate and dissent, but the distinction between participating and only condemning is stark.

          You probably call yourself an anarchist, encouraging and practicing voluntary association and mutual aid.

        • Shingo says:

          “As Zionists would be mainstream/dominant in the proposed single state.”

          Zionists could not possibly be mainstream/dominant in the proposed single state without that state being apartheid. As you in favour of apartheid Witty? That’s what Barak has warned will happen in a single state.

          Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas do not insist that Israel not exist as a self-governing state. Nor are they seeking war. Strop lying Witty.

          I know how embarrassing it must be that Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas do support eh Arab peace initiative while Israel rejects it. It must be terribly inconvenient to have to pretend that Israel is not the one rejecting a 2 state solution while Hamas support it, but lying isn’t the way Witty.

          You’re old enough to have learned that by now.

          Also, Israel threatens to attack Iran reputedly, as well as Hezbollah. Since the 2006 ceasefire, UNIFIL have recorded 2500 breaches of the ceasefire by Israel and none by Hezbollah. Remind us who’s seeking war now Witty.
          You’re right about one thing. Israel’s is not a moderate approach and yes, it is indeed sad.

          “’I’m glad that Hamas is currently fighting jihadist groups in Gaza. They distinguish themselves in that way, even as their methods and goals have been similar.”

          They’ve been doing that since 2008 Witty, you know, the same year that Israel started a war with them, while demanding that Hamas curtail the jihadist groups?

          “Hamas and Hezbollah chose not become mainstream, but powerful.”
          They became powerful though will and through rejecting corruption Witty.

          “They can contribute to the state of radical warmongering in the region and the world.”

          Not nearly as well as Israel, who in this year already, has threatened Iran, Lebanon, Gaza and Syria alone.

          “Please consider the Iranian purges of the early 80′s.”

          I have. In case you forgot, Iran had a revolution and revolutions are bloody. Still small compare to the Israeli purges in the last 60 years.

          “ I knew a couple revolutionaries that successfully removed the Shah from power, but were later purged and murdered for their democratic sentiments.”

          I’d say you are lying. For you to have known them, you would have to have been in Iran, and you have never been there

        • Shingo says:

          ”Hezbollah has been a terrorist organization in the past, responsible for a few major bombings in foreign capitals.”

          False.

          First, Hezbollah ahs always been a resistance group since it’s creation. Europe rejected referring to them as a terrorist group until recently, followin severe arm twisting from the US.

          Also, Isrlw was founded by terrorist groups, which went on to become the basis of Israel’s miliatry and political parties.

          “They are/were also actively militarily suppressive of dissent from their party line in Lebanon. Its worth reading before propagating”

          Rubbish. They haev actual been fully integrated into the Lebanese government and Hariri has spoken in their defense.

          I won’t even bother ssking you for your “reading material”, because you won’t provide it anyway.

        • aparisian says:

          Witty then you did read the following quotes:

          - “Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : “We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return.” Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. “The old will die and the young will forget.”

          - “We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

          - . “The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war.” Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha’aretz, 19 March 1972.

          and the list is long…

          If you are a Jew, be proud of it and participate in its community.

          How to participate? by supporting Zionism? against my conscientious? i know that your fellow Zionists fear us and i promise you i will never let Israel destroy descent Jews.

          ———————————————————————————–

          Exactly Shingo.

          The EU and the UN refused to list Hezbollah in the list of the terrorists organisation. But Witty call combats against the Israeli militarised ramboos terrorism when they are not jews.

        • The Ben Gurion was in the middle of a war to the death, or did that part of the war miss you, the repetition of “we will drive them to the sea. We will kill them all”.

          Acceptance, equality?

          If you don’t observe that I do not apply the theme of “We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves”, then you are skilled at ignoring reality (the root of the word “ignorance”).

          Zionism is self-assertion and self-governance. “Greater Israel” is something entirely different.

          I distinguish. Don’t you?

        • aparisian says:

          If you don’t observe that I do not apply the theme of “We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves”, then you are skilled at ignoring reality (the root of the word “ignorance”).

          Witty, of course you do implicitly, you are the one who are skilled at twisting and ignoring reality, you keep justifying the Israeli repeated aggressions against unarmed civilians and civilian infrastructure.

          Zionism is self-assertion and self-governance. “Greater Israel” is something entirely different.
          Zionism is opportunistic exceptialism of some European colonialists. Great Israel was just history, thats all. Today’s Israel is nothing than an apartheid regime, even for descent Jews. It will fall and descent Jews will pay the price of crimes committed by this group of criminals.

          Btw Witty i would like to hear from you on why the UN/EU don’t consider Hezbollah a terrorist organisation and can you explain how can Arabs resist against their Zionist occupiers?

        • “Of course you do implicitly”.

          Such an ideolog you are aparisian.

          “Resistance against their Zionist occupiers?”

          You don’t ask, how can Palestinians thrive and live securely? How can Gazans thrive?

          My understanding is that most members of the EU do consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization on the basis of past terrorist actions conducted on and at EU member states, and on the basis of their harsh suppression of political opponents within Lebanon.

          Our politics seem to originate from very different foundations.

          I know many that cannot conceive of reform and the persuasive work that that entails, instead adopting purist “anti-racism” postures that end up as hypocrisy as the proponents are never as pure as their ideologies.

          Better to do anti-racism work, than to parade anti-racism litmus tests.

        • aparisian says:

          You don’t ask, how can Palestinians thrive and live securely? How can Gazans thrive?

          How they can thrive if their olive trees are uprooted daily, how they can thrive in live securely if they are humiliated daily by the occupiers and the gangs (the settlers)? how do they thrive if they they don’t have the freedom of movement? how can they thrive if their homes are demolished and how do they thrive if they are evicted from their houses? Tell me Witty how can we reach peace if the Zionist occupiers are still undermining all of hopes of any peace talks READ this link to news.bbc.co.uk

          This is kind of news that come daily from GOD DAMN ISRAEL!

          My understanding is that most members of the EU do consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization on the basis of past terrorist actions conducted on and at EU member states, and on the basis of their harsh suppression of political opponents within Lebanon.
          Wrong, Wrong and Wrong! provide your souces.

          Our politics seem to originate from very different foundations.
          i would say it originates from the same foundations but i decided to follow a moral foundation for sake of peace and living together.

          I know many that cannot conceive of reform and the persuasive work that that entails, instead adopting purist “anti-racism” postures that end up as hypocrisy as the proponents are never as pure as their ideologies.
          Witty, Peace is never War, Racism is never anti-racism.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          LOL! So Witty is literally saying, vis-a-vis Ben Gurion, “Wollt Ihr den totallen Krieg?!”

        • Peace is not racism. “Justice” often is.

          What do you ask? Do you ask “what will help Palestinians? What strategy will result in their well-being?”

          Or, do you ask, “what will stick it to Israelis? What will compel them to give up Zionism?”

          One is helpful, the other is retributive, ideological (self-medicating).

          If you asked the question “what would help Palestinians?” then maybe there would be some creative process that we could collaborate on.

          I favor Zionists right to self-govern, so strongly that I would encourage fighting for it. I favor Palestinians right to self- govern, so strongly that I would encourage Israelis to compromise profoundly to realize it.

          I oppose retribution pretending to be “justice”. It is an obstacle to every good prospect that I see as possible.

          The two fundamental components of the stated BDS objectives: ending the occupation (assuming meaning 67 borders), and equal rights for Palestinians and other minorities in both Israel and Palestine. I regard the third statement as too vague and opportunistic to support “right of return”. I can support it if it refers to individuals that were born in geographic Israel (green line). And, I support the legal requirement to compensate for any forced takings.

          But, I do NOT support any formula that promotes the elimination of Israel as a sovereign state. I am a Zionist in that regard.

          To the extent that that is component of dissent, the dissent is not humane, not progressive in the slightest, and in MANY cases harbors and facilitates anti-semitism, even among otherwise humane and liberal Jews.

        • Shingo says:

          ”My understanding is that most members of the EU do consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization on the basis of past terrorist actions conducted on and at EU member states, and on the basis of their harsh suppression of political opponents within Lebanon.”

          I’m gadl you prefaced that with “my understanding”, which is a phrase you often use when you know your full of it.

          Any EU members who might consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization, have adopted that position through intense lobbying by the US. At the time of those atatcks and long afterwards, the EU uniformly rejected the notion that Hezbollah were a terrorist organization.

        • Shingo says:

          ”Peace is not racism. “Justice” often is.”

          There is no peace without justice Witty. What youre saying is that ‘peace and justice are a threat to Zionism, which is correct.

          ”What do you ask? Do you ask “what will help Palestinians?”

          Yes. The only thing that will help the Palestinains is an end to the siege, the blockade, enthic cleansing, murder, land theft etc. The only thing that will end these practices is pressure on Israel, not more love.

          BSD is the only thing that will achieve this. Israel withdrew from Gaza becasue practical hardliners made the descision that remaining there was costly. The reality thatIsrael’s policies will remain until Israel realise they are too costly.

          ”Or, do you ask, “what will stick it to Israelis?”

          That’s an added benefit, but not the main objective.

          ”What will compel them to give up Zionism?”

          They can keep their Zionism so long as they do it within 1967 borders and allow th erefugees to return.

          ”One is helpful, the other is retributive, ideological (self-medicating).”

          Retribution is often helpful. Is ”self-medicating”, your nee buzzword for the week Witty?

          ”If you asked the question “what would help Palestinians?” then maybe there would be some creative process that we could collaborate on.”

          Creative as in, how do we impose as little inconvenience to Israel as possible, right Witty? We dont need to collaborate ‘with you Witty. You refuse to move forward, and cling to yout pie in the sky notions of brotherly love. What is needed are practical and tangible stratergies, not vague and ambiguous phrases.

          ”’I can support it if it refers to individuals that were born in geographic Israel (green line). And, I support the legal requirement to compensate for any forced takings.”

          You stil seem tol beleiev that the world needs your approval to move forward with this Witty. You don’t get it do you? We don’t need you. The world is going to do this with or without you, and you refuse to budge from your limited set of parameters, so may I suggest you sit back and allow the world to pursue this goal.

          ”But, I do NOT support any formula that promotes the elimination of Israel as a sovereign state. I am a Zionist in that regard.”

          No one is asking you to Witty, but in your desperation, you pretend that BDS and right of return/compensation threatens Israel, which is false on all counts. And incidentally Witty, you are a Zinist in every regard.

          “‘To the extent that that is component of dissent, the dissent is not humane, not progressive in the slightest, and in MANY cases harbors and facilitates anti-semitism, even among otherwise humane and liberal Jews. ”

          Oh shut up and learn to write in English Witty. You’re to pre-occuied with conflation and dioversion, you can’t even string a sentence together.

          Dissent in a human right and this is humane in every sense.

        • The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a “terrorist organization”;[208] it listed the deceased Imad Mugniyah, a senior member and founder of Hezbollah, as a terrorist.[209][210][211] In addition, on March 10, 2005, the European Parliament passed a non-binding resolution recognizing “clear evidence” of “terrorist activities by Hezbollah”[212] and urging the EU Council to brand Hezbollah a terrorist organization and EU governments to place Hezbollah on their terrorist blacklists, as the bloc did with the Palestinian Hamas group in 2003.[212] The Council, however, has been reluctant to do this, because France, Spain, and Britain fear that such a move would further damage the prospects for Middle East peace talks.[212] In the midst of the 2006 conflict between Hezbollah and Israel, Russia’s government declined to include Hezbollah in a newly released list of terrorist organizations, with Yuri Sapunov, the head of anti-terrorism for the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation, saying that they list only organizations which represent “the greatest threat to the security of our country”.[213] Prior to the release of the list, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov called “on Hezbollah to stop resorting to any terrorist methods, including attacking neighboring states.”[214]

          The Quartet’s fourth member, the United Nations, does not maintain such a list,[215] however, the United Nations has made repeated calls for Hezbollah to disarm and accused the group of destabilizing the region and causing harm to Lebanese civilians.[216] Human rights organizations Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have accused Hezbollah of committing war crimes against Israeli civilians,[217] in which in the same article, they also accused Israel of war crimes but against Lebanese civilians.

          Some other countries have criticized Hezbollah, citing terrorist activities, without maintaining such a list. Argentine prosecutors hold Hezbollah and their financial supporters in Iran responsible for the 1994 bombing of a Jewish cultural center, described by the Associated Press as “the worst terrorist attack on Argentine soil”, in which “[e]ighty-five people were killed and more than 200 others injured.”[148] On 24 February 2000, French Prime Minister Lionel Jospin condemned attacks by Hezbollah fighters on Israeli forces in south Lebanon, saying they are “terrorism” and not acts of resistance. “France condemns Hezbollah’s attacks, and all types of terrorist attacks which may be carried out against soldiers, or possibly Israel’s civilian population.”[218] On August 29, 2006, Italian Foreign Minister Massimo D’Alema differentiated the wings of Hezbollah: “Apart from their well-known terrorist activities, they also have political standing and are socially engaged.”[219][220] Germany does not maintain an independent national list of terrorist organizations, choosing instead to adopt the common EU list; however, German officials indicate that they would likely support a designation of Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.[221] While not maintaining a list as such, the Netherlands regard Hezbollah as terrorist discussing it as such in official reports of their general intelligence and security service[222] and in official answers by the Minister of Foreign Affairs.[223]

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Good showing, Shingo.

        • Shingo says:

          1. Hezbollah is now fully integrated into the Lebanese government and it’s legitimacy has been recognized by Lebanon, so no, it is not a terrorist organization.

          2. The United Nations has NOT made calls for Hezbollah to disarm, it has made calls for the Labanese goevrnment to disarm militias in Lebanon. Hezbollah is not considered a militia by the Labanese goevrnment.

          It must infurate you that Israel aren’t the only ones who know how to exploit loop holes Witty.

          3. Argentine prosecutors dol NOT hold Hezbollah nor Iran responsible for the 1994 bombing of a Jewish cultural center. As Garethe Porter has reported, the US intelligence agencies and FBI have all concluded that neither was involved in the attacks.

        • Shingo says:

          Thank you Chaos.

          Someone has to expose Witty’s distortions, dishonesty, hypocirsy, biggotry and fanaticisim, and guys like you deserve a break once in a while.

        • aparisian says:

          yes well done Shingo, i m sorry about my english i m trying my best to show the incoherence in Witty speech but my english doesnt help me :’(

        • Can I ask you a candid question Shingo.

          Are you conditionally opposed to Israel (meaning that if Israel acted differently you would be indifferent or supportive)?

          Or, are you unconditionally opposed to Israel (meaning that no matter how Israel acts, you are opposed to its existence)?

        • Chaos4700 says:

          What part of Israel exists without the miltiary occupation and the ethnic cleansing, Witty? What part of Zionist can exist without violence and bloodshed against the people who were already living there before Euro-colonists like you came along?

          Answer that candidly, Witty.

        • Shingo says:

          The answer would be a), though personally
          I couldn’t care less about nation stares. I’m much more interested onindivodials and communities.

        • Shingo says:

          Don’t apologise Aparisan. Most of us can’t understand what Witty is writing half the time and English is supposed to be our first language (and his apprently).

        • Donald says:

          “You refuse to move forward, and cling to yout pie in the sky notions of brotherly love”

          You’re giving him way too much credit, allowing him to paint himself as an idealist. He talks like a 60′s idealist, but he favors Israeli brutality under some conditions. Your basic ideologue, blind to his own moral inconsistencies and apparently unable to change.

        • Shingo says:

          You are absolute correct Donald. When Witty speaks of humanity and acceptance, he’s clearly only thinking of Israelis and begrudgingly including the Palestinians into the narrative.

          As for favoring Israeli brutality, has he ever not favored it?

        • Chaos4700 says:

          I think the best I’ve ever seen out of Witty was something akin to, “Well, kicking them a second time was unnecessary.”

        • Shingo says:

          I might add Donald, that Witty’s pretense at benevolence for all concerned is Aldo tainted by the innevitability of Israel’s day of reckoning. It reminds me of the bad guy who finds himself disarmed and postrate, with guns pontes at him at the end of the movie, and suddenly starts offering a deal and trying to convince everyone that he’s sorry for his crimes.

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  17. RE: “This is just a small sampling of one lobbyist’s work on one campus. The full extent of this web is endless.” – Glatzer
    ALSO SEE: The Trial of Israel’s Campus Critics, by David Theo Goldberg and Saree Makdisi, Tikkun Magazine, September/October 2009
    (EXCERPT)…It is an extraordinary fact that no fewer than thirty-three distinct organizations-including AIPAC, the Zionist Organization of America, the American Jewish Congress, and the Jewish National Fund-are gathered together today as members or affiliates of the Israel on Campus Coalition. The coalition is an overwhelmingly powerful presence on American college campuses for which there is simply no equivalent on the Palestinian or Arab side. Its self-proclaimed mission is not merely to monitor our colleges and universities. That, after all, is the commitment of Campus Watch, which was started by pro-Israel activists in 2002. It is, rather (and in its own words), to generate “a pro-active, pro-Israel agenda on campus.” There is, accordingly, disproportionate and unbalanced intervention on campuses across the country by a coalition of well-funded organizations, who have no time for — and even less interest in — the niceties of intellectual exchange and academic process. Insinuation, accusation, and defamation have become the weapons of first resort to respond to argument and criticism directed at Israeli policies. As far as these outside pressure groups (and their campus representatives) are concerned, the intellectual and academic price that the scholarly community pays as a result of this kind of intervention amounts to little more than collateral damage…
    ENTIRE ARTICLE –http://www.tikkun.org/article.php/sept_oct_09_goldberg_makdisi

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